Can the right continue to travel even further right? if they do can American then remain a Democracy?
Maybe the answer to both questions is no, can any one think every Republican supports the very right controlling their party
Will the Democrats have learned from the Hillary Clinton own goal?
Yes surely, and too surely they, this time, will not rely on Trump to beat himself
American and world politics is at a crossroads,center and left of center party,s will find ways to combat this new right or fall.
Politics evolves and in seems likely world wide party,s other than the right may move just a little, towards the right in the key issues that fuel the right, not my wish but the point of politics is to win elections

the point of politics is to win elections
Belly,
that is the unfortunate part. It should be about guiding a nation into the future & elections should be an award for a well performing Govt.
The way things are now it's a matter of ousting a badly performing Govt & voting in another incompetent one.

Possibly should that not read * the point of politicians are to win elections * which is why now they change policies on the slightest hint it will garner more votes.

In the past as is it now they will lie and virtually offer the world if elected knowing full well they can not deliver, when in power out come all the reasons why they can't deliver on what they promised.

This to me is one of the main reasons most Politicians are not trusted anymore.

In posting this I wanted to let some light in on an increasing dislike of politics worldwide, and to re-enforce my view centrist/left party,s will change to in part stop the move to the right.
America has seen Republicans fight for control of their party, we see that in the current government, and in all truth oppositions.
But right now some Republicans are not supporting their own government.
The true right has not got full support even within its own party.
So what can centerists and left party,s do.
Here after the boats came Labor,seeing it had blundered in this area, introduced even harsher rules, offshore detention.
Such moves will be seen from centrist party,s to stop the growth of the very right
No fully left or right party can rule any more

You've got to be kidding me right?
Here we go again...

Where do you get this fairytale from Belly?

"Can the right continue to travel even further right? if they do can American then remain a Democracy?"

Before I even respond to your statement, I want you to prove your statement is valid on it's own merits first.
Can you do that?

Tell me how the right have 'traveled even further right'.
It should be fairly simple for you to lay out your reasoning so please explain.

- My argument would be that any increased solidarity with the right has come as a result of the lefts incessant march towards the left.

The rights stance is a 'reaction' to the lefts increasing irrationality, not a 'progressive movement' like the left itself is.

The right compromise and move slowly to the centre,
But the left ALWAYS pushes more and more to the left.

The result is that many fair-minded people have started to question this leftist globalist ideology, and are drawing a line in the sand.
Those who have been complacent are saying enough is enough.

These are the facts about Leftists and Liberalism.
http://youtu.be/tlIjMJBSnRE

I posted it yesterday or the day before, maybe you didn't get the memo.
Watch it again, or clean out your ears or something...

If the point of politics is to win elections, then whats the end game, what's the bigger picture?
And why the bloody hell don't they teach our kids to look at the pro's and con's and then look at the bigger picture...
- But I digress.

Obviously if we have two opposing sides who's only objective is to win, then what the people get is and endless shitfight back and forth by with no real benefit to anyone.
You see if both sides had the people interests in mind, they'd be working together to figure out the best policies for all their citizens on their own merits.
- Like that's ever happened.

But democracy isn't going to work for those who don't believe in it and want to work as a cartel to tear it down and build something else.

"No fully left or right party can rule any more"

Hello anyone home? Answered your own question.
That's the aim, to polarise the nation into opposing camps and force a social revolution for the benefit of communism and global government.
- We're being steered towards something else.

What that means (End-Game - What you NEED to know) is that just like in Europe, Aussies wont decide their own laws anymore, and this has been happening incrementally for a long time now already.
And just like in China there will be total control over citizens, and if you step out of line you and your entire family will be sent to a gulag (Techincal name - Re-education Camp)
What do you think smart cities initiative and 5G is all about?
Total Spectral Dominance.

- Which is what you're supporting, through your ignorance.

What do you think UNESCO deciding our refugees and school curriculum amounts to?
We should join the EU they say...

You really need to stop living in the past Belly, (like Hawke and Whitlam still run the nation) break the conditioning, and see the modern world for what it is..

Armchair likes a little plonk with lunch

Dear Belly,

I don't think it's a question of Left or Right.
Republican or Democrat.

Both parties need to represent the interests of the
people and not the powerful. Things like healthcare/
Medicare, taxation, Social Security,
are a concern, moving the economy forward for people
who need not just a job but a job that provides a
living.

That's what Americans care about - according
to the Los Angeles Times. Parties that are seen as
being out of touch, elitist, without any good ideas on
economic or pocketbook issues are going to have to
lift their game. - They're going to have to give people
a sense that they've turned the page and are not the
same old, same old.

In the US every part of the country is different and it's
important to run a campaign that's suited to a candidate's
own environment.

People care about the policies that affect their lives.

put America first and put Australia first. Pollies selling out to corrupt organisations like the Paris accord and other UN thievery and corruption should be punished. Trump has been a breath of fresh air with great results.

An unfortunate truth confronts us all.
No party that has ever existed can please everyone.
No perfection exists in politics, ArmChair critic,if you can not see first the tea party, then the mad hatter party, Trump, has moved to the right nothing I say will be of help.
Let me briefly leave the topic, use the recent by election in longman Queensland, to prove apoint, 15 percent gave first preference to one nation, the very right.
6 percent however must have known, surely, in giving second preference they voted Labor.
Democrats, at the lowest point in their party,s recent history, voted for Trump.
In fact more Americans voted for Hillary, a clearly bad choice, than Trump
So yes the Democrats will have got their act together, but will take some of Trumps ground by mimicking/taking some of his policies

Armchair Critic Your comments to Belly are totally uncalled for.

Here is what you said.
You've got to be kidding me right?
Here we go again...

Where do you get this fairytale from Belly?

"Can the right continue to travel even further right? if they do can American then remain a Democracy?"

Before I even respond to your statement, I want you to prove your statement is valid on it's own merits first.
Can you do that?

(Left out the middle parts )

These are the facts about Leftists and Liberalism.
http://youtu.be/tlIjMJBSnRE

I posted it yesterday or the day before, maybe you didn't get the memo.
Watch it again, or clean out your ears or something...

**
Firstly in my opinion he is making a comment about something. he is not stating a point that requires absolute proof, it is just his opinion.
Also From you. Quote form Belly
"Can the right continue to travel even further right? if they do can American then remain a Democracy?"

Your reply
Before I even respond to your statement, I want you to prove your statement is valid on it's own merits first.
Can you do that?

What you put in quotation marks are two questions, so what do you want him to prove?

Secondly You provide a youtube link and state "These are the facts about Leftists and Liberalism." They are only the opinions of Dennis Prager the person in the video.

Thirdly If you go back to where you originally posted the link to the video you will notice Belly did not even comment on that page so it is fair to say he did not see your link. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=19958&page=0#352753

Finally Can you give me an example of something that given a broad cross section of any community say a few thousand people just 1 thing that would have 100% of the people for or against it.

Fact is some will be for something some will be against something and others will be undecided in or close to the middle.

It's hard to understand this bloke, but I'm guessing he's ranting against conservatism as usual, in particular American conservatism this time, even though all we hear from that country is the whining of the Left, which is unable to accept a democratic vote that saw the incompetent, corrupt, born-to-rule Democrats kicked out, leaving America three trillion dollars in debt, economically weak, and a military laughing stock. Most of the whining comes about because President Trump has been successful and has kept EVERY ONE of his promises so far. The Left is livid because Donald Trump has done what they could never do, and had no intention of trying to do.

The Democrat party is a disgrace, making even it's Australian equivalent look reasonable. We see the anti-Trump, anti-democracy Storm Troopers out on the streets almost daily on TV. It is obvious where the problem lies.

Another Kristallnacht is on the horizon. Not against Jews this time, but anyone who supported Donald Trump. The fascistic Democrats are already kicking people connected with Donald Trump out of restaurants and harassing them, egged on by the likes of the black female senator, Warren who doesn't like discrimination against African-Americans, but encourages it against Trump supporters and staff.

Actually I am pointing out the truth, Conservatives and the very right are different things.
The same can be said about Labor and the Greens, or one nation and the Nationals, just
And too, no matter how unhappy you may be with that truth it remains true.
I can even highlight adopting another party,s policies happens here, NO Labor government would ever let the refugee boats start again,they would not dare offend those who demand it stop.
Cop it sweet America, any county not a dictatorship, has two sides at least in politics, and at times voters swap sides.
Prepare for the midterms, dig your trenches, find your reasons, for a Trump set back powered by the middle and even some, women for sure, in his own party

Belly,
I'm afraid I have to agree with Armchair Critic that you need to reconsider living in the Whitlam/Hawke era. The Labor party that we both supported in '72 is not the Labor party of now.
It is now run by idealist academics, lawyers & insufferable ex Union reps with a really bad accent.
I can not see why you can't see that. I'm in no way implying that the Conservatives are much better but they are slightly more responsible & the recent uphieval showed us that some amongst the conservatives had the guts to stand up against their own & say enough is enough.
That takes guts because politically it could prove to be a suicide mission.
I just hpoe that Morrison has enough integrity to address the issues of Welfare, Immigration & Law. I simply can not envisage Shorten to be a better option. He doesn't even make good promises even though we all know neither party keeps promises anyway.
Personally, I'm too scared of Labor getting in because I'm simply getting too old to keep battling with stupidity that's ruining our lives.

Hi Belly,
First and foremost, citizens supporting the United States Constitution DOES NOT IN ITSELF constitute a move to the right;
I'll repeat it again so that it actually drills home.
First and foremost, citizens supporting the United States Constitution DOES NOT IN ITSELF constitute a move to the right.
What that demonstrates is citizens supporting the rules the nation was founded on;
NOT moving to the right, and NOT moving to the left.

Holding their ground against the continued infringement upon the principles of America's founding, by the march of the left.

Regards the Tea Party, I do watch Ron Paul every now and again, and he's one of the few voices of reason out there on Syria. Do you?
Lets go to Wikipedia.
- I had to go and read up myself you know, because they are such an overwhelmingly powerful movement of the right [sic]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tea_Party

'The movement began following Barack Obama's first presidential inauguration (in January 2009) when his administration announced plans to give financial aid to bankrupt homeowners. A major force behind it was Americans for Prosperity (AFP), a conservative political advocacy group founded by businessmen and political activist David H. Koch.'

So, it as originally a reaction to the lefts march to the left, and towards socialist agendas, but it wasn't originally a grassroots movement as such funded by Koch Brothers any more than George Soros funded 'progressive' movements are grassroots.

What I said earlier;
"My argument would be that any increased solidarity with the right has come as a result of the lefts incessant march towards the left.
The rights stance is a 'reaction' to the lefts increasing irrationality, not a 'progressive movement' like the left itself is."

But let’s look further at what wikipedia says;

'Historian and writer Walter Russell Mead analyzes the foreign policy views of the Tea Party movement in a 2011 essay published in Foreign Affairs. Mead says that Jacksonian populists, such as the Tea Party, combine a belief in American exceptionalism and its role in the world with skepticism of American's "ability to create a liberal world order"

Rather than die down as most disappointments do, the Trump Derangement Syndrome is still growing, the latest vicious campaign from the Democrats being their hysteria over Trump’s nomination of Brett Kavanaugh as a Supreme Court judge. As usual, they found a stool pigeon who suddenly 'remembered’ being sexually assaulted by the man 30 odd years ago. He denies it; people present at the time deny it, but the truth means nothing to the Left. They have something they call 'your truth’, which really means that it's whatever lie that suits their current conniving.

The Democrats were determined to find ways to block whoever Trump nominated because they knew it wouldn't be a slippery left activist who liked making laws to suit the Left, rather than interpreting existing laws. U.S. judges have 'rights’ like nothing we know in this country.

A bunch of leftist harpies calling themselves ‘Women’s March” had, it has been discovered, a pre-prepared statement stating: “In response to Donald Trump’s nomination of XX to the Supreme Court of the United States, the Women’s March released the following statement,” read the start of an email from the feminist group.

The statement was pre-written, with the name only added in after the nominee was learned by the public, in the xx spot. And the harpies were definitely not going to accept a Trump nomination no matter who it was. All they had to do was to invent some scandal to match tha person.

There are probably some decent Democrats, but it is the scum of the earth variety, which is anti-democratic and fascist, that is running the show in America.

[Cont]
When necessary, they favor 'total war' and unconditional surrender over "limited wars for limited goals". Mead identifies two main trends, one personified by former Texas Congressman Ron Paul and the other by former Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin. "Paulites" have a Jeffersonian approach that seeks to avoid foreign military involvement. "Palinites", while seeking to avoid being drawn into unnecessary conflicts, favor a more aggressive response to maintaining America's primacy in international relations. Mead says that both groups share a distaste for "liberal internationalism".[46]

Some Tea Party-affiliated Republicans, such as Michele Bachmann, Jeff Duncan, Connie Mack IV, Jeff Flake, Tim Scott, Joe Walsh, Allen West, and Jason Chaffetz, voted for progressive Congressman Dennis Kucinich's resolution to withdraw U.S. military personnel from Libya.[47] In the Senate, three Tea Party backed Republicans, Jim DeMint, Mike Lee and Michael Crapo, voted to limit foreign aid to Libya, Pakistan and Egypt.[48] Tea Partiers in both houses of Congress have shown willingness to cut foreign aid. Most leading figures within the Tea Party both within and outside Congress opposed military intervention in Syria.'

Don’t forget Palin was John McCain (who loved the M/E wars and help start them) running mate.
Also the Three Amigo's McCain, Lindsay, Lieberman who were FOR the Pro-Isreal wars.
In this context, you might see the Ron Paul Camp as Constitutionalists who DO NOT support 'US Exceptionalism' and OPPOSE US M/E Wars; which ARE supported by neoconservatives.
- Also Trump opposed US intervention in Syria.

When you say move to the right, I think of a move from right to far-right like Aryan Brotherhood Neo-Nazi type stuff.
The Tea Party do not support this, and Trump's campaign was funded in part by (Pro-Israel) Sheldon Adelson.
Linking him to support of Neo-Nazi's is going to be a tall order, so your allegation that the right moves further to the right (ie. far-right) truly baffles me.
What is it that you mean exactly when you say the right is moving farther to the right, what are the issues you refer to?

Hey Philip S
"Firstly in my opinion he is making a comment about something. he is not stating a point that requires absolute proof, it is just his opinion."

Well I disagree.
Belly opened with "Can the right continue to travel even further right? if they do can American then remain a Democracy?"

He made a claim first, and then asked a question based upon that prior claim.
Before you can respond to the question, you must first test the validity of the claim.
Belly certainly appears to be laying the blame for claimed 'destruction of democracy' at the feet of the right.
Do you disagree with my rationality?

Also I might also point out that I fundamentally disagree that a forum members 'Opening Statement and Question' that starts every new thread is a 'comment'.

'Comments' come afterwards, and run secondary to the opening statement.
That's where other forum members get a chance to respond to the assertions made in the opening statement, question the points that were made, or give further insight into the issue or simply hold a general opinion on what was first stated.

"What you put in quotation marks are two questions, so what do you want him to prove?"

According to Grammarly quotation marks are for when you want to use someone else’s words in your writing, just as I've done now quoting you.
Here's the link to if you wish to find out more:
http://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

Personally I don't really care so much about grammar and punctuation as a component of language as much as I value the abilty to share and convey ideas and understand other peoples points of view.

QUOTE>>Secondly You provide a youtube link and state "These are the facts about Leftists and Liberalism." They are only the opinions of Dennis Prager the person in the video.<<

[You see that, sometimes I will change the way I quote; which I did because your statement already contained quotation marks.]

[Cont.]
At this point I must ask, whats your problem?
Was it what I said to Belly or the way I said it?
- Because your coming across as petty.

Regarding the Dennis Prager video; whats the matter with you?
Why do you have to move to the completely 'Downe Syndrome Method of Analysis'
- Attacking the person who made the video.
(You can't see this, but right now I'm waving my arms around and pretending to be retarded to mock you)

I mean don't question or argue what was stated in the video, No.
Like an idiot we'll move to childs logic and attack the person who said it.
Maybe Dennis Prager flashed his dick at someone in Uni 36years ago and we can discredit him.

"Thirdly If you go back to where you originally posted the link to the video you will notice Belly did not even comment on that page so it is fair to say he did not see your link."

Ok, fair enough but you are getting very 'nitpicky'.
Belly probably saw it, but probably didn't look at it, though I am assuming.
In any case he can't say he missed it now can he?

"Finally Can you give me an example of something that given a broad cross section of any community say a few thousand people just 1 thing that would have 100% of the people for or against it."

Well that's a pretty complex question but the simple answer is no.
For me there's Pro's and Con's and the bigger picture for every issue.
It's not just the citizens but other forces at work as well, like the media, corporations, lobby groups and Globalist inclined Organisations.
Were living in a world that deliberately creates and frames issues for the purpose of polarisation of citizens for political means.
That's essentially the downside of capitalism in the media.

The real problem, people aren't informed and lack the ability to look at issues on the issues own merits.

The word is out that Christine Ford, the woman making unsubstantiated claims against Brett Kavanaugh, candidate for the U.S. Supreme Court, might have a pecuniary conflict of interest in seeing Kavanaugh not elected to the Court.

Ford works for the company that produces the Abortion Pill; and she has written several pro-abortion articles.

In the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh would be a threat to abortion, which is both “sacrament and god” to the “screaming women raving like lunatics about …. abortion-on-demand”.

Jennifer Harline, U.S. commentator, says the women keen to extinguish the natural results of their sexual encounters are “absolutely unhinged”. The don't hate Kavanaugh for what he may have done (or not) 30 years ago. They hate him because they love a abortion and he does not.

And of course, only men lie; but women never lie, according to the witches.

Armchair critic, as you should know our views are never going to be the same, *do not look for insults in my posts* if I want to insult you you will know it.
Know too, either you and a few rabid supporters who dislike me enough to take offense at me saying good morning, are wrong or I am.
Outside this place a majority exists, from all sides of politics, they do not share the view Trump is a saint.
Judge me on results, midterms, recent AMERICAN POLLING.
In truth, even in this country Labor gets more votes than any other SINGLE PARTY.
This one point I can not understand, how did so many extremist right wingers get to gather on this forum?

Armchair Critic - You are delusional, you see or read things that are not there.
Quote.
"Regarding the Dennis Prager video; whats the matter with you?
Why do you have to move to the completely 'Downe Syndrome Method of Analysis'
- Attacking the person who made the video.
(You can't see this, but right now I'm waving my arms around and pretending to be retarded to mock you)

I mean don't question or argue what was stated in the video, No.
Like an idiot we'll move to childs logic and attack the person who said it."

Please show me how I attacked the person who made the video?
Here is my reply.
Secondly You provide a youtube link and state "These are the facts about Leftists and Liberalism." They are only the opinions of Dennis Prager the person in the video.

This part shows me you are off the planet, I can now see why some people may want to avoid you.

FACT, the thread you posted the link to the video on Belly did not even post on it, so it is fair to say he never saw it but you come back with this.
Quote
"Ok, fair enough but you are getting very 'nitpicky'.
Belly probably saw it, but probably didn't look at it, though I am assuming.
In any case he can't say he missed it now can he?"

I am getting "nitpicky" for pointing out someone may not have seen something even though YOU yourself say "Ok, fair enough" agreeing with me that he may not have seen it. Then you contradict your "Ok, fair enough" by saying this "Belly probably saw it" No one is innocent under your warped logic here.

With the final point I am pointing out there are differences of opinion on all subject just because someone disagrees with your view does not call for the unwarranted words you used on him

Con't

These two quotes from you indicate there is something seriously wrong with your state of well being. Absolutely juvenile, worse than a child throwing a tantrum.
Quote
"Why do you have to move to the completely 'Downe Syndrome Method of Analysis'

(You can't see this, but right now I'm waving my arms around and pretending to be retarded to mock you)"

Please seek help, you seem to need it

Most people who have a negative opinion of Trump rely entirely on MSM for their information and MSM doesn't have a good word to say about him. These people are too lazy or disinterested to educate themselves and are not the sorts of people who make any difference; they just vote for the same people election after election. They don't really count.

Hey ttbn,
"black female senator, Warren...".
- You got them mixed up.

Elizabeth Warren is the one they call 'pocahontas' because of her claimed Indian heritage.
The black female senator you're referring to is loopy Maxine Waters.

Hey there Belly,
"...if I want to insult you you will know it.".
Yeah I know.
"Know too, either you and a few rabid supporters who dislike me enough to take offense at me saying good morning, are wrong or I am."

Now that's wrong.
Firstly don't assume I don't like you.
Because I don't necessarily dislike you at all.
I just argue the content;
(and much of yours seems outdated, or misguided)
- I didn't mean to be so hard on you first thing in the morning, if you took it that way.

"This one point I can not understand, how did so many extremist right wingers get to gather on this forum?"

'extremist'?
- You make out like were all gathering for nefarious means, instead of just discussing social and political issues.

Hey Philip S
"You are delusional, you see or read things that are not there."
Well, no-ones perfect, but are you sure?

"Please show me how I attacked the person who made the video?"

You didn't directly attack Dennis Prager, but you did so indirectly in the way you changed to issue from 'content' to 'author'.

Now ask yourself 'Is this an answer that holds merit?'

You didnt have any criticisms (for or against, or both) of the content of the video and you instead tried to write-off the content as being just the opinion of one person.
Now just one look at that video shows 5million views in a few weeks and 30,000 likes, so clearly it can't be written off as the opinion of just one person; if others support it.
Now maybe all these people supporting it are all delutional (like me), in the same way that progressive peoples videos probably get likes from other weird progressives;
So what we have to do is look carefully at the 'content' and see if what was said holds merit.
That's a key thing, 'If what was said holds merit'.

AC,

Yes, you are correct. I did mean Maxine Waters. Thankyou.

[Cont.]
So let me go about it a different way.

Let's say Dennis Prager said "The sky is blue."
Are you going to lower us all to child's logic and say "Well that's just the opinion of one person."

Regards my earlier comment that "Belly probably saw it"; well I didn't go back and check the thread like you did.
- And if you say that Belly didn't even comment on that thread; then maybe he didn't see it and I was wrong.
But so what? I did say 'assume', and I do sometimes get things wrong.
And I always post video links and Belly never watches them.
(Well I don't think he does.)

If you wish me to apologise for my error then sure, I don't see why I shouldn't.
- I'm sorry if I falsely accused you of deliberately not watching my video Belly.

"With the final point I am pointing out there are differences of opinion on all subject just because someone disagrees with your view does not call for the unwarranted words you used on him."

Well it depends on a persons beliefs and sensibilities I guess.
Because I have to be honest and say that I believe this:
'If someone says or does something stupid, that I have a right (an obligation even) to point out that what that person said or did was stupid.'
It's 'my obligation' to give 'basic humility' in such a manner that does not harm, but acts in a way that someone might think twice before they say or do said stupid thing again.

Get it?

- Basically it's a non-violent form of correction, no different to when some fool; who, not watching where they are going, trips over and you laugh at them.

You may not hold the same opinions as I do.

AC I rather like you too, true, but as said earlier we will think differently on just about everything.
Old fashioned ideas? no informed ones, morning read, before visiting here, Sydney Morning Herald, ABC online, Al Jaz,BBC findtime during day to read USA news sites and follow up storys about politics.
This thread is about both Trumps weirdness, and the Democrats re building, see American interviews from both sides, in many sites.
It is TRUE Democrats had found the very bottom in 2016, with unwanted Hillary.
True to that Trump promised Americas rusty steel belt something better, in the short term he delivered.
But his trade war has his own side more than concerned.
So while I am not sure the Democrats have yet polished all the faults out I am sure they are in two years, headed for government

AC some thoughts, on returning to what still is a good site, many be the only real one
I found once again, my ALP stance made me a rare fish here.
I am not convinced it has that effect in real life, oh yes I cop it when in the company of grumpy old men,but most of them do not know who is our deputy PM.
But why do we verbally flog each other here? is it a need? will we feel better if we do it?
Doing your block in old Australian talk,, makes no difference to your point of view or the others.
I do read your links chuckle about them some times but read them

I found once again, my ALP stance made me a rare fish here.
Belly,
What do believe would be the most urgent policy to be addressed at this time ?

Have a read of this sickening insidious rhetoric.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/aussies-who-dont-sign-contract-should-leave-country-or-be-executed/news-story/9d42cf64d149e32b292560308e8f5682

Armchair Critic Like usual playing silly games, Quote "5million views in a few weeks and 30,000 likes, so clearly it can't be written off as the opinion of just one person; if others support it."

So 6% for, 94% with no input is your argument not very good odds.

Especially when it is easy to buy likes on social media.

As a minor point how stupid do you think people are even yourself for that matter, I will bet not one person watched the video then went through all the comments to see if everyone else agreed or disagreed.

The content of the video has nothing to do with the comments you made to Belly as there is no proof he even saw it and there is more evidence to support the fact he did not see it, you even admitted the probability he did not see it by your quote "Ok, fair enough".

Now a very critical point has come up regarding your sanity, with comments like these which you conveniently failed to address.
Quote
"Why do you have to move to the completely 'Downe Syndrome Method of Analysis'

(You can't see this, but right now I'm waving my arms around and pretending to be retarded to mock you)"

These two following statements from you are contradicted by your language in the above two quotes.
Quote
'If someone says or does something stupid, that I have a right (an obligation even) to point out that what that person said or did was stupid.' (( So you think your first statement above was what one would expect from a sane person?))

It's 'my obligation' to give 'basic humility' in such a manner that does not harm, but acts in a way that someone might think twice before they say or do said stupid thing again.

It looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

Individual, hard question about a thousand answers, but a national investigative,with a prosecuting arm, Commission against crime and corruption would be my first act.
Trump,, right now, is trying to be the best he can, he understands the midterms are sitting on his veranda teeth bared.
If he is not given a wake up call by voters in my view every word I posted in this thread is wrong.
And America is headed for isolation again.
America never was other than a very strange place in politics,in watching ABC s planet America, it is not the local content I want but to see Americans from both sides, tell us what they think

Belly,
from where i'm watching the situation it seems the Yanks are simply just a more numerous version of the Australians.
Way too much division through selfishness. We really need to re-introduce some National pride & cohesion.
Like the town of whyalla when the steel works employees & staff accepted a 10% cut in pay so as to save their jobs AND it worked !
We need the same with the public Service.

Belly there is little wonder that with the list of media you favour that you are going to be totally ill informed.

Mate get off that treadmill of lefty propaganda rags, & try looking a little further. It just may open your eyes.

Dear Belly,

I watched Four Corners last night on the ABC.
It was a feature on Quirindi in NSW and how the
farmers were coping with the drought. It hit home
because I have family members who are farmers in
Quirindi. The emphasis was that we need to have a
federal plan to deal with droughts. There isn't
one at present. That's something that a government
needs to put into action. No matter who gets elected.

I think that the US, just like Australia
has its own territorial problems that need to be
addressed in each electoral campaign. As I stated in
my earlier post - people care about policies that affect
their lives - not so much any more about party loyalties.

http://www.ustoday.com/story/opinion/2018/07/09/five-ways-republicans-beat-democrats-2018-elections-congress-column/759931002/

cont'd ...

Sorry for my typo.

Here's the link again:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/07/09/five-ways-republicans-beat-democrats-2018-elections-congress-column/759931002/

Dear Belly,

Just to complicate things a bit further - here's another
link on American politics:

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/opinion/democrats-economic-policy.html

Hasbeen,read this mornings SMH see international polling, people trust Putin and China,s leader more than Trump.
Your use of the term left is a symptom of not quite understanding world politics.
Foxy interesting link, is it slanted? not sure, is it just an opinion? or based on what is in fact truth.
Trump, latest insult to a woman is just another silly thing to add to his very large pile of thought bubbles that drowned on the way out of his mouth

individual my union involved in that wage cut to save jobs.
If we want to truly look at the last five years of low wage growth it in the end only lowers the standard of living, just how far do we want that to go?
Foxy it is true, self interest drives many voters, BUT see one nation, what drives them,
Some voters chase bright shiny things that are not worth it in the end
Again in the end it can be policies we do not want that drives us to vote not ones we want

Belly,
How do increased wages improve living standars when everything keeps pace in going up ?
Seems rather pointless to me except perhaps the odd useful Australian made product can be exported in exchange for prices going up so the wages need to follow again. Our biggest export is money taken by australian tourists to cheap holiday destinations in Asia.

Silly Cat & mouse game anyone ?

Well maybe a thread about this is something you may stat indy, back on subject.
Hasbeen told me my reading is purely left, if even near true the Australian center has moved to the left.
America too, Trump is not universally liked or trusted.
Being a Democrat is far far from being a lefty.
took time to look at latest American news about Trump and he is in a bit of trouble next month.

Dear Belly,

I'm not sure if the links are "slanted."
There's probably some amount of bias in all
reporting.

I chose them because they're well known ones in the US
and I thought they'd give us a reasonable sort of overview.
However, I guess we should also look at other sources
to get the bigger picture. As for policies? I agree
with you - that we should look more closely at them -
not only the ones that we want. The ones that we don't want
will after all affect our lives as well.

Foxy yes and in no way did I intend to target your post, rather the opposite, reading both sides of an issue is the only way to be well informed.
I am finding the leftist conspiracy stuff here chuckle worthy.
Having lived long enough to have seen the true left, Russian Chinese communism left, and watched or researched, how even some trade unions and politicians served that left, I roll on the floor laughing at the Trump style madness, that supporters of the Democrats are, an evil left
Reality along with truth is a victim once a whole political movement resorts to lies and mistruths, much much worse than Gobels used.
That horrible man murdered his own children as a reality set in, his Germany was not one the world could except, we will not see murder but we will see a downfall of what is a madness, America under Trump is not a country the rest of the world trusts

America under Trump is not a country the rest of the world trusts
Belly,
That's because the rest of the world is too far behind draining its swamps. At least here in Australia they've started to.

Dear Belly,

We certainly live in interesting times don't we?
So much information is now available to us - and
yet it's hard to sift through it all.
The next few months will show us in which direction
we're all headed. I'm still optimistic about things
though.

yes we live in interesting times Foxy and I too am hopeful, that America may not fuel its politics on hate lies and fake name calling.
That my mate individual will one day expand on what he thinks draining the swamp is all about.
Iraq,s mad Sadam once did that, to kill off the way of life of his enemy,s, those who sought good government.
NOVEMBER, forever in this country,s history an historic day,they hanged Ned Kelly in that month, on the very same day 11,11 they removed an elected government.
This time, if sanity gets a run,Trump [in the news for helping his dad avoid taxes in the billions], will be hurt in the midterms

individual,
>That's because the rest of the world is too far behind draining its swamps. At least here in Australia they've started to.

Really? You don't think it has more to do with Trump being a liar who keeps on lying when his lies are exposed?

Belly,
The swamp of Australia is it's public service & its bureaucrats. It needs draining & culling.
The amount of funding that is wasted on a daily basis by self-serving bureaucracy is simply no longer acceptable. It is beyonf me how some bureaucrats can earn hundreds of thousands a year more than the PM.
Can anyone honestly take a look & at this circus & justify $800-900 grand ?
Little Councils of 2000 population have CEO's on $400 grand +. Then they still have to engage consultants. I mean really !

Really? You don't think it has more to do with Trump being a liar who keeps on lying when his lies are exposed?
Aidan,
Exposed by worse liars you mean ?

Brave man!
here at least some think telling the truth about Trump is treason.
In fact if he was to be given the truth serum his body would reject it as a foreign body.
However he was not the first American to travel on the far right side of reality, and he may not be the last.
In a country that made more riches out of war than it does in peace we may well face yet another needless war, one we may not win, as a gift from a man not quite right in the head

Belly,
everyone tells fibs ! it is nothing short of criminal when women bleat sexual abuse 30 years after they claim it happened. And, isn't it uncanny how the accused always have a higher position (excuse the pun) AND aren't short of a quid or two. I'm still waiting for a handicapped pensioner to be accused of indecent assault 30 years after the fact. Now, that would make a headline.
Talking about liars, everyone of our past PMs' promised things but never delivered . All bloody liars eh ?
I recall Hawkie telling us that by 1992 no australian child shall/will live in poverty. Another fib. The place is just packed with liars.
You really need to do something about them old son.

individual,
>Exposed by worse liars you mean ?
No I don't. Though the American media are far from perfect, AIUI they're more committed to accuracy than the Australian media - and when their errors are exposed they don't keep repeating them and falsely accuse the people telling the truth of "fake news".\

>The swamp of Australia is it's public service & its bureaucrats. It needs draining & culling.
A frequently heard accusation, but a baseless one. Governments like slimming down the public service, but it's a false economy if (as usually happens) the work ends up having to be done by contractors and consultants at twice the price.

>It is beyonf me how some bureaucrats can earn hundreds of thousands a year more than the PM.
But how many do? And of those who do, is their pay rate performance related?
(Actual answers only please; your speculation is worthless)

>Little Councils of 2000 population have CEO's on $400 grand +.
Really? Which ones?

> it is nothing short of criminal when women bleat sexual abuse 30 years after they claim it happened.
The time elapsed doesn't alter the criminality. If the allegations are true then those women have done nothing wrong and the crime is entirely the fault of the accused. If the allegations are false then either the accusers are mistaken (which could credibly be the case for a single allegation, but not for so many IMO) or they're lying (which would be criminal).

I don't know who's telling the truth, but I think it's wrong to pass judgement before the evidence is heard.

>And, isn't it uncanny how the accused always have a higher position... AND aren't short of a quid or two.
No it isn't. Because were they not in that position: firstly fewer of the accusers would consider it worth the trouble of bringing those accusations forward, and secondly because it would not be so newsworthy if they did.

>I'm still waiting for a handicapped pensioner to be accused of indecent assault 30 years after the fact.
Not handicapped, but Rolf Harris was 80.

(tbc)

individual (continued)

>Talking about liars, everyone of our past PMs' promised things but never delivered . All bloody liars eh ?
Aye, though some have lied more than others. Tony Abbott was the worst IMO.

>I recall Hawkie telling us that by 1992 no australian child shall/will live in poverty.
'Twas "by 1990..." so he was still in office when he failed to meet that pledge, and he copped a lot of flak for it.

> Another fib
To be fair, he did sincerely mean it, and he expanded the social security system to try to fulfil that promise, but that turned out not to be sufficient.

Really? Which ones?
Aidan,
You don't really mean that do you ? Are you trying to tell us you doubt this happening ?
Start looking up Qld LG for a start. You should know it is against the Law to name people/outfits in such circumstances. It however is not illegal to look up the websites of Councils & from there follow Facebook where these facts are seeping out.

Try Customs, Judges, Uni Chancellors, ABC managing Directors, ATO Commissioner etc. Again look up Public Service Salaries.
Contractors are already brought in at huge cost to do the work Public Servants are supposed to do.
Rolf Harris was a celebrity with a quid or two. A worthwhile target for any opportunist.

Off subject but must be said.
We in the western world like to talk about the treatment of women in the Islamic world.
Like? we love to point out the wrongness of a whole faith to half its members.
We can serve up horror stories even talk about mothers who pick the sons wife, then use her as a slave.
We quite rightly demand that faith come in to the modern era.
BUT not just in these pages but in Trumps America, that mans support team, we? openly use hate speech against women!
Say if purely based on the trauma of the event they do not talk of RAPE, that if they do they lie! half of this planets population are female, they are not disposable items, they are not all liers they matter or not one of us does

the accusers of Kavanaugh have been shown to be as bigger liars as Hilary. Why aren't they in gaol?

runner quote "Why aren't they in gaol?" Same reason Juliar Gillard is not in jail, prosecution done by prosecutors appointed by politicians, senior police who can stop investigation are appointed by politicians.

We do not have an independent judiciary or police service.

In case you don't know what runner means.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/exboyfriend-of-christine-ford-claims-she-helped-friend-prepare-for-polygraph-test/news-story/cb6d4e96ad3497875defbdb5c507cfc9

Ex-boyfriend of Christine Ford claims she helped friend prepare for polygraph test

AN EX-BOYFRIEND of Christine Blasey Ford has issued an explosive statement suggesting she lied to the Senate in her testimony.

A MAN who says he dated Christine Blasey Ford in the 1990s has suggested she lied to the Senate during her hearing.

In a sworn written statement, the man claimed to have directly witnessed Ford helping her “long-time best friend” Monica McLean prepare for a polygraph exam.

“Dr Ford explained in detail what to expect, how polygraphs worked and helped McLean become familiar and less nervous about the exam. Dr Ford was able to help because of her background in psychology,” he said in the statement.

During the hearing, Dr Ford said she had never had discussions with anyone, besides her lawyers, on how to take a polygraph, nor had she offered tips to anyone on doing so.

The ex-boyfriend also disputed Dr Ford’s lawyers’ claims that she has a fear of flying.

“While visiting Ford in Hawaii, we travelled around the Hawaiian Islands including one time on a propeller plane. Dr Ford never indicated a fear of flying.”

He said she never expressed a fear of close quarters, tight spaces or places with only one exit, adding that she lived in a small, 46sq m Hawaii apartment.

This was in relation to Ford’s testimony about suffering from claustrophobia. The alleged assault was revealed to her therapist and husband in 2012 after she insisted on having a second exit to her home, which her husband couldn’t understand before she opened up about the alleged attack.

Prosecutor Rachel Mitchell noted Ford flies “fairly frequently for hobbies and … work”.

She said: “She flies to the mid-Atlantic at least once a year to visit her family. She has also flown to Hawaii, French Polynesia and Costa Rica. She also flew to Washington DC for the hearing.”

So easy, just read the posts, men never tell lies women do always
America is a failed state no longer one with respect for the laws it was founded on

The swamp is deeper than Trump indicates. It includes academia pollies business and unions.

individual,

>You don't really mean that do you ? Are you trying to tell us you doubt this happening ?
Of course I mean it. And of course I doubt the claim that "Little Councils of 2000 population have CEO's on $400 grand +." It's literally incredible.

>Start looking up Qld LG for a start.
Highest paid I could find was the Gold Coast Mayor on $247,802.

>You should know it is against the Law to name people/outfits in such circumstances.
Which law would that be?

Contractors are already brought in at huge cost to do the work Public Servants can't do because there aren't enough of them.

Do you think Rolf was innocent of the charges he was convicted of?

You don't seem to understand that celebrities have a lot of power, allowing them to get away with things that most people could not (including Trump's own example of grabbing women by the pussy).

Aiden I doubt truth will change some posters views,knew that claim was never close to true but also, evidence is not looked at by some.
Drain the swamp, as most users only mimic Trump but do not understand what he said here it is
Washington was built on a swamp, much like Trumps presidency, he used that to infer every institution was in need of draining.
He has added extra layers of mud but achieved little else, he does however hold meetings.
Meetings to prop up his ego with his supporters cheering and, yes believe it, waiting for any reference to the letter Q, see the brainless fools think Q is a secrete reference to? what ever their tiny minds want it to be.
America ,years ago, stopped writing great film scripts and started using COMIC BOOK HEROS, Trump is a B grade movie in a country that has become a B grade movie

+." It's literally incredible.
Aidan,
For your sake & ours, get out of your idealistic cocoon. It IS happening, just check.

Goggling Trump midterms this morning, threw up an interesting view.
The site had the latest polling 5 weeks out from voting, while some voting is taking place now.
It gave Democrats a 70 or was it 80 percent chance of winning the bigger house.
But only a 20 or 30 percent chance in the senate.
It, based on polling, gave the exact opposite view to mine here.
It claimed the Republicans are getting more right, Trumps supporters beating softer Republicans.
And while critical of the Democrats not yet having a leader, insisted they have become more Liberal.
I think I see a wild card,here and there,Women, both ruling party,s here and there, are ignoring half if not more, of the voters, even more so in America a place leadership insults them daily.
Interesting days ahead

You don't seem to understand that celebrities have a lot of power,
Aidan,
I understand that more than you. You should know that Gold Diggers will do do anything to get noticed by celebrities & when the celebrity doesn't respond satisfactorily the Gold Diggers resort to maligning the celebrity.
I had a couple friends who were celebrities some years ago & I have seen with my own eyes how people react when they meet someone of a bit of fame. They just lose it.
So, when a successful man gets set up to be compromised, everyone simply points the finger at him instead of the slag that set him up. Entrappment is a really dreadful stunt & should be dealt with extremely severely.
Failing to check on the validity of peoples' claims first before going into denial & ridicule mode is another dreadful trait. There are Council CEO' & EO's who are on so much pay that most ordinary people simply refuse to believe it & dismiss it by ridicule. I suggest such non-believers should join ratepayer associations etc.

no indy, change the subject a hundred times but in the end it remains true.
You greatly over state the wages of public servants and I am wondering why you dislike them so much.
Did one frighten you as a child?
However in the very peak of the CB Radio craze, a time truck drivers let foul mouthed anti police things go over the radio at will.
Standing beside a roll over truck with a cop two drivers did play that game, trying to flatter him so hard, I looked at him and grinned as he told them he too had a CB and overheard their every word before they stopped

You greatly over state the wages of public servants

Belly,
I have seen some salary depostits when some bureaucrats left the computer screen on. I have also found the odd salary advise lying on the office desks & let me say it again loud & clear. Public Service salaries are over the top in comparison to the economy we have.
No wonder we go from Debt to Debt at every Budget Labor & Coalition.
Have you any idea at all how much travel rorting costs for bureaucrats to remote communities ?
Not to forget Customs, Police, Health, Legal Aid, Consultants et al.
If you only had the slightest idea what outrageous allowances some unions push for you'd change your tune.

indy if you targeted CEOs maybe we could agree, I saw the evidence put against your claims and it won me.

Belly,
Our ratepayers Ass. can't get explanations from the Council re a 25 Mil. project/blunder directly attributable to the Shire Engineer who, upon calls to be sacked , was given the opportunity to resign & receive a massive bonus. Meanwhile, pensioners who are having difficulty in keeping up with Council rates despite most property values in our area having taken a dive, are being pursued by Council planning to hire an outside company to recoup the outstanding rates..
The new CEO is rumoured to have an annual budget of over $800,000 which leaves $400,000 for salary of a 2200 ratepayers Council.
This is the society we've become & which Aidan finds so hard to believe.
Right of Information for taxpayers translates into right of refusal to provide information for Councils.

It has been said the fight over the judge has bought Republicans out to vote next month
It also may bring women out to protest at being marginalized, let us see