Its been six years since Julia Gillard labeled Tony Abbott a misogynist. And it would be hoped the federal parliamentary Liberal Party would have learned a lesson from the Abbott experience. In 2017 Foreign Minister Julie Bishop did shared some unpleasant details about her time in the Abbott Government. Bishop revealed how she was the lonely token woman, who was ignored in Abbott's all male, bar one, men's club.
That's all water under the bridge, and one would expect that by now the Liberal Party would have learned its lesson, and realized the macho stuff has no place in today's government. Not so it seems, as one woman Liberal MP after another, reveals how she was bullied by male colleagues in the recent leadership fight. Julia Banks was the first Liberal female MP to come forward and reveal the “cultural and gender bias, bullying and intimidation” of women in politics. Banks will not re-contest he marginal Melbourne seat. Then the Minister for Women, Kelly O'Dwyer, said Liberal MPs "were subject to threats and intimidation and bullying" during the recent leadership spill. Now, Liberal Senator Lucy Gichuhi has threatened to name Liberal MP who she says bullied her and other female colleagues during the leadership fight.

Dear Paul,

It is a sensitive issue certainly. I wonder if these women will
go through with it? Naming names is not goin to be an easy
thing to do, I imagine . However will it put
their careers at risk? And will these women be prepared to do that?
The Liberal Party certainly does not need this sort of
publicity to add to its problems. It's almost ironic that next
year I believe is the 75th Anniversary of when Sir Robert
Menzies founded the Liberal Party. I wonder what he would say if
he saw what has happened to it?

the snowflake generation on show. How about the 22 staffers of Emma Hussar. Oops forgot about then Paul.

Paul,

Are you really woman yourself? You certainly have a good line in misandry. Pauline, is it?

Paul/Foxy, never easy, not posting our thoughts on this issue but in reflection very poorly thought out needless NEEDLESS trolling from? the question is, and I am thinking as a recent arrival not the once was me,can we truly talk about any subject? are we welcoming new posters or turning them away? YES these women do have questions, those need answers, why not have more woman in that party, Labor gets targeted, sainthood is conferred on one of mine,! but only to then claim she was a victim! that lady was investigated by my party, she walked away *because she knew she was guilty* a poster here is targeting me, it steams back to another site and my refusal to think of one nation haters as truly well informed and that every Muslim is not evil,it is childlike but?not sure what to do.

Hi Foxy,

There appears to be a systemic problem with the right of the Liberal Party when it comes to bias against women. It reflects badly on those that would presume to govern us. In the case of Julia Bishop, regardless of ones politics, no one can deny she has not been more than capable as Foreign Minister and as a senior member of the government, it will be Australia's loss when she leaves the parliament. In the case of Julia Banks she is not going to get the time to prove herself as a politician, she had a taste, and she don't like it! I've only seen the Minister for Women, Kelly O'Dwyer a few times, and she to appears up to the task. Lucy Gichuhi although not a member of the Liberal Party is so incensed by the behaviour of some Liberal Party men in this matter that she is prepared to name, names in parliament.
If they believe in honesty in government then Morrison and Dutton need to step forward and tell the Australian public the truth, about the tactics used against women, during their brawl for the top job.

Yes runner I agree, Emma Hussar does not deserve to sit in parliament, her behaviour towards staff has been reprehensible. The quicker she goes the better.

ttbn, Are you (Paul1405) really woman yourself? No, I am a male heterosexual. For me your question is irrelevant to the discussion. On women's issues it is a fair bet I'm probably in the same boat as Foxy, we both support gender equality. Does it shock you that a male could possibly be supporting the "sheilas", I use that word as its probably the one you are most familiar with. and use in the circles you move in.
BTW, in your Corny Banana Conservative Party what is the woman's policy? Does it extend beyond the sign at the front door "No Sheilas Allowed".

It is a small minority of malcontented, frustrated battleaxes who make all the noise - whining and shrieking - and blaming men for for all their imagined woes.

They don't need any help from girly-men.

Paul,

I use "sheila" to describe only the lower class of female. "Ocker" I use for the lower classes of both sexes. You will be familiar with the types.

If leading and protecting my family is misogyny then I am more than happy to wear the leftist badge who twist and rename language to suite a very sick depraved narrative.

Talking about women, how about Julie Bishop not getting a solitary vote from her WA Liberal party room. Yet, the media is always telling us how 'popular' she is with her 11 votes out of those cast 85 by her Canberra colleagues in the leadership ballot. The press gallery seems to have Belly's understanding of the meaning of words.

I have a real thing about bullies and bullying. If this women in the LNP has a legitimate case of Bullying then bring it on and tackle those who've been accused. But if it's just another case of whinging and whining like a old Valiant Diff, well just dismiss it for another disenfranchised feminist, is all. Gee's we've got 'em in spades, in Parliament for sure.

Any side of politics while everything goes their way they're happy, when it doesn't blame the men for all their ills. And if we dare point out an error in their thinking or behaviour, we're automatically branded a misogynist - I wonder what would happen if we guys started using patently incorrect labels on the ladies? Personally I have far too much respect for most of them.

Those wanting 'equality’ for women will be pleased to know that Royal Academy intends to ensure that there is an equal number of female and male nude statues in the Tate and other galleries displaying such gruesome things. The next thing, I suppose, will be calls for tranny statues, or even examples of the umpteen different genders we are told that exist. There will be a building boom to make room for them all.

Dear Paul and Belly,

We've been told many times that politics is a blood
sport and it certainly appears to be true considering
the recent events of the past weeks. However I feel
that misrepresenting things in Parliament should
definitely be against the rules of conduct for its
Members. And that's what some of them apparently seem
to have done and they need to be held accountable for their
behaviour. If they said one thing and did another - using
bullying tactics to try to achieve their goals that should
have a light shone on their actions to ensure that this
unacceptable behaviour does not happen again.

For an up and coming talented Member of Parliament to now
quit her position and no longer want to support her party -
that's pretty serious stuff. It needs to be asked - Why?
What happened? And let the punishment fit the crime.

Also voters need to know about these kind of people - and
whether they want to continue to support them. The Party
can't say one thing and do another. It can't pretend to
be for fairness and a broad church as it claims it is - and
then use under-handed methods to try to achieve its goals.
It's not a matter of women whinging - it's a matter of
righting wrongs, and doing what's right for all.

cont'd ...

Talking about statues in museums and such. I guess museums
and statues for most of us are an acquired taste. To each
his/her own. The same goes for statues in parks. I for one
love going to Ballarat - and walking around the gardens
there that holds the heads of all our previous Prime Ministers.
But maybe its not everyone's cup of tea

I've found a link by Paul Daley and his views on the subject of
statues that he feels should have a re-think. You may or may not
agree with him. Here it is:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/postcolonial-blog/2017/aug/25/statues-are-not-history-here-are-six-in-australia-that-need-rethinking

Do we have one of our Queen anywhere?

Well one poster has gone out of the way to show us it is not dead in this community at least,at the time it was announced Morrison had won, my thought was a honeymoon period was to turn the polls around, to days list of changes and new policies seem to say that is on the way,Women in the workplace even now often confront pure insane bitterness from some men,this issue will not go away, next weeks sitting will be worth watching question time and maybe much of the debate,I am an activist for women's rights and equality, other things as well brain cancer and westpac helicopter, to move forward we must try to get our heads around it women right now are leading other countries and doing it well they are however second class people in this government

It would be injudicious for anyone herein, to even suggest that politics might be a 'blood sport'. As there are on this Forum, some who'll run a veritable mile, at the thought they might be injured even by just speaking of 'blood'!

Let us then describe it, as a group of people who've been elected, who's function it is, to have a robust discussion on how our Country should be run? Without even the merest hint, or mention of blood? And with the complete exclusion of anyone involved in LBTIXYZ or whatever these gender exploiters or manipulators may say?

"Its been six years since Julia Gillard labeled Tony Abbott a misogynist."

As with most things Gillard got the accusation wrong. Which is why the Macquarie dictionary people had to retrospectively alter the meaning of 'misogyny' so as to make her error somewhat less erroneous. But getting words wrong was not unusual for Gillard: remember when she thought the Afghan rebels were a rock group called the Taliband; or hyperbole was pronounced hyperbowl.

Of course, later, one of the things that bought Abbott down was his loyalty toward and defence of women like Peta Credlin. A misogynist who has a female chief of staff and defends her against real misogynist attacks? That only makes sense to those more interested in the politics than the truth - no names mind you, Paul.

There is no more misogyny in the Libs than there is in any other organisation. This week its the Libs under fire because of politics. A month ago it was the ALP who failed to defend one of their women (if only they had an Abbott!!). The Greens kicked out Lee Brown etc.

As an aside, one of the women complaining about their lot in life is Lucy Gichuhi. She got into parliament with 152 votes on the back (so to speak) of Bob Day's resignation. Only a fortnight ago people here and elsewhere were outraged that the Fraser Anning was in parliament on a few votes. Yet I haven't seen any outrage that this women is complaining while having got 0.01% of the vote and even that was for another party. I guess that's due to the rampant misandry in some circles.

The woman of Greek background who is quitting politics because of 'bullying’ is a Turnbullite serial moaner and groaner whose maiden speech was one long whinge. She even dragged up the time she was called a 'wog’ - in primary school! She will find bullying wherever she goes after politics.

A new, unelected senator from Pakistan got straight into the whinge about what awful people Australians are. Deliberate provocation.

The senator from Africa has now started up about bullying. It would be pretty hard to please her: she recently went back to her home country and whinged that the $200,000 or whatever she gets for complaining in the senator is 'not much’ of an income.

Three whingers, all multi-cultis.

yep claiming bullying because you don't get your own way is very demeaning to men and women who have really been bullied. I suspect that's the case with the Turnbull followers. We have a generation of snowflakes who see it as bullying everytime they are denied something they have been taught they are 'entitled' to. How anyone thought Bishop was 'entitled' to the PM's job amazes me. Someone will realise one day that being Foreign Affairs Minister giving away money left right and centre is certainly a lot easier than leading a party or country. Admittingly she did a good job butn any one of 100 people could float around the world and being careful to be pc.

speaking of 'bullying'. A 51 year old woman (teachers aide) has escaped gaol after grooming and having sex with a 15 year old boy. What more needs to be said. Many men in gaol for same crime.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6133005/Female-teacher-51-groomed-15-year-old-boy-sex-walks-FREE-court.html

runner this thread is not an anti woman one is it? can a woman in this country,s governing party announce she is to reveal some acts she thinks are out of order ,? things we have not even heard yet? is that a crime? you point out a truth, one that has nothing to do with this thread, but remains true, a woman had sex with a 15 year old, forced? not sure, should she have walked away after being found guilty? NO WAY! not because she is a woman, but because that is why justice is said to be blind, it should see no sex ,or any thing other than the crime, goggle bad women, sure you can find much more to muddy the waters on this thread

the point is Belly that we have clear evidence of a 51 year old woman grooming a young man. With these Turnbull backers we have no names, no description of how they were bullied and much much news about it. Maybe we should stick to real bullying not tantrum throwing when one does not get their own way.

That's right runner. And a couple of weeks ago, an African 'refugee' had her life sentence reduced because a very weak appeal judge thought that the trial judge had been too tough after she she was convicted of driving several of her own children into a lake and killing them. We won't hear anything from the man-haters and girly-men here about that. Not just African women - all types of women - kill more children than men do.

Many Members of Parliament have referred to politics as a
"blood sport," especially during the past few weeks.
So, as we've seen politics is intensely personal. It is
personal for all of us because the laws passed by Parliament
shape our lives in ways big and small and the stakes are
too high for us to ignore. So politics whether we like it
or not, does matter.

It will be politics that will determine whether electricity
bills will keep going up along with our emissions, whether coal
mines can dump waste into wetlands beside The Great Barrier
Reef without penalty, whether our parents, relatives,
friends and neighbours can stay in their own homes as they
age, whether they'll be able to afford decent health care,
whether they can educate their children, whether they'll
be able to work, whether they'll get a decent pension, whether
children will keep setting themselves alight on Nauru. Whether
we'll continue to crack down on banks, whether we'll
continue to protect kids from sexual abuse,
the list goes on.

We really cannot give up on this
"blood sport" of politics because of our frustration with
the revolving door of leadership and the bullying that
apparently has gone on in our Parliament. Because we need to
remind ourselves that the government works for us.

Those that may want us to simply walk away from politics
may prefer a dictatorship - but in a democracy people speak
their minds - and make their vote count - where it does
matter.

Talking about hysterical women who go on about 'bullying’ to cover up their inadequacies, Ginger Julia has just been awarded an honorary doctorate “for her ‘outstanding contribution to education and social inclusion’. Men not 'included’ of course. As Corrine Barraclough writes: “ nothing says “inclusion” quite like divisive gender politics”.

Yesterday, the honorary (make believe) Doctor spruiked ‘ Women and leadership’ at Adelaide University and, of course, she whined that it was “gender bias” that saw Julie Bishop getting her well-deserved comeuppance in the leadership count. And she is still moaning that when she “governed” (is that what she thought she was doing?), the media dismissed “out of hand” her claims that anything she mucked up wasn't her fault but “related to (her) gender”. Well, that's changed, although she didn't say anything about that. The media is now up to their eyes in gender bigotry.

There was a lot more typical gender waffle from our third worse Prime Minister ever, but who would be interested? We had plenty of that while she was - apparently - governing.

Hi Foxy,

Seems this topic has stirred the forums 'cranky old men', yet again. Do you think I should stop doing that? The cranky old men have lost their position of dominance in society, and they don't like it. With references to the "snowflake generation", " malcontented, frustrated battleaxes", "I use "sheila" to describe only the lower class of female", "a very sick depraved narrative", "displaying such gruesome things", "rampant misandry", "serial moaner and groaner", "Pakistan got straight into the whinge ", "Africa has now started up about bullying", "The woman of Greek background,is a Turnbullite", "Three whingers, all multi-cultis", "a generation of snowflakes", "Not just African women - all types of women - kill more children than men do". "hysterical women cover up their inadequacies, Ginger Julia Men not 'included’ of course", "up to their eyes in gender bigotry"!

Wow there's is plenty of the misogynistic types, just here on our little forum.
As a female (I can't because I'm a male, although ttbn is not to sure about that). I beg you to make the lads a warm cup of coco, something women are good at in their eyes, and tuck them into bed, something else women are good at in their eyes. See women have at least two talents, coco making and bed tucking, and no more of this unnecessary tish tosh about equality. Remember the motto "bare foot, pregnant and in the kitchen!" The lads hanker for a return to the good old days, back in grandmas time, when men were men, and women done as they were told!

What can I put up next that will "please" the lads? I know, what will get them going "A Transvestite Would Make An Excellent Prime Minister!" The lads tend not to like any we've had in the past, so that should "please" them.

Paul you open up a subject well worth talking about,there are a few who are are quite rabbid seen that in remarks about you, yes not forgetting you left my boat but like myself right or wrong, we both care about the planet and other people, we however, you even more than me bloke are either evil lefties or completely stupid wreckers,be content with understanding very very few voters care enough to be well informed, that half of this country, the number that do not vote conservative,or 95 percent, the number who are not super conservative will never support the view we are wrong always, overnight our ex Foreign affairs Minister added her voice to this threads claims,some will now put her down, for? being an honest woman, both lesser beings for too many in this coalition and some who support it..Be aware, the cheap shop has a special on cheap shots so you are about to be hit with the news of sexism in your party, know however in this case those throwing the verbal rocks will be on the side of the woman!

Foxy opines "So politics whether we like it or not, does matter.It will be politics that will determine whether...." followed by a shopping list of things she thinks government should/will/can address.

Part of the problem is government and control of it has become so much more consequential these days. As governments seek and seize greater control over the lives of the governed, the stakes get higher. Therefore the cost of failing to be on the winning side becomes much higher. Hence the viciousness and fight-to-the-death attitude. Reduce the size and scope of government and that'll reduce the need and urge toward the blood sport nature of parliament.

As to the claims that conservative and/or older men are naturally misogynist (which people like Paul use to avoid making their case) I'd venture to opine that the (vast?) majority of these so-called misogynists would have been and would still be great admires of Margaret Thatcher, one of the half dozen most consequential and successful politicians of the 20th century. No misogyny there, just support for someone who knows what needs to be done and does it. If we found such a person in our parliament, I'm sure most of those who are currently falsely labelled would rally around the banner, penis or no penis.

Paul,

It seems that you are the cranky, stirred up one, devoting an entire paragraph to repeating everything I said. At least you are paying attention.

I see that you have the support of poor old Belly - if you can decode his gibberish. Do you think he is on something nasty, or is it that he never went to school? He clearly isn't aware that his beloved Labor party is now in the hands of a university-educated elite who wouldn't have a bar of an illiterate road worker. Perhaps you, with your infinite compassion for everyone of the left and all kinds of odd balls, could find a venue for him to express himself without the need to use the English language

ttbn.

"Do you think he is on something nasty, or is it that he never went to school? "

Sorry ttbn, but that's beyond the pale.

Actually not sorry. That's just plain disgusting. Almost makes your "I use "sheila" to describe only the lower class of female" seem genteel. Is the need to score points so vital that you shelve common decency?

I don’t understand all the angst about this topic.
To me the issue is obviously simple to understand.
Women have spent decades demanding equality but when some get into the same positions of power as men, suddenly they want protection from the cut throat tactics that come with these jobs.
What male politicians ever complain about being bullied, yet it would be unbelievable to suggest that they have been handled with kid gloves by other members.
Women who want the top jobs and equal opportunities either accept they willl be treated the same as their male counterparts or resign themselves to being in a minority.

"Former Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber accused of calling women 'fat, hairy lesbians' in workplace".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-06/former-victorian-greens-leader-accused-of-running-sexist-office/10178894

Well! Well!

YES saw it, but if we are to be a community that welcome even wants newcomers, new ideas and even views different to our own? lets face it, the TROLL gets to me, hurts me, but I have zero doubt I am better than him/her, even better educated,in the university of life, pasted many tests, even got highest mark in some,wanted to hit the report button, even thought about the final departure from this site, yes I spell poorly, grammar is something you make a pie out of,put words together sometimes like a scrambled egg , I hold views my troll is to be pitied, but still is it ok, what is a troll if not ttbn?mate know you would never dare ever talk to me like that in real life,
that young me that walked away from school all those years ago was hungry so too his siblings he went on to eat well and so too the siblings, he too went on determined to never let a day pass without learning something new please someone tell me how to ignore a little person unsure of them selves who comes here to troll.

see Julie Bishop starting to snipe from the back bench. Hilarous really, especially when the abc see it as a good thing. All bout sides guys and girls.

mhaze,

How very precious of you. I will still compliment you on your mention of the great Margaret Thatcher. It is funny how the feminists, male and female, are always yabbering about misogyny and equality for women, but when it comes to one of t he very few women who have excelled in a so-called man's world, they hate her as much as they hate everyone and everything else that doesn't fit their view of things. When it comes to women in public life, they prefer failures: Julia Gillard, Carmen Lawrence, Joan Kirner, to name a few of the worst. These people cannot cope with achievers, male or female. I suppose it's because failures seek out other failures to make themselves look better.

Is Mise,

Was he referring to women who were actually  'fat, hairy lesbians' ? Such people do exist, and unless he wasn't telling the truth, he has done nothing wrong.

Belly, Mr. Bell as you tell us your real name is.

You would call anyone a troll who calls out your opinions. Calling me a troll is actually doing what you accuse me of. If I trouble you so much, why do you keep on reading my posts? Do you need something to complain about all the time? Your inability to express yourself in writing is not a crime in itself. More and more people cannot use their own language these days, thanks to our lousy education system. But, it is incongruous to see someone with your lack of ability laying down the law to other people. It is a joke. It is insulting.
'
You have two options: don't read my posts or, make a complaint the moderator. But, I think that you are just trying to stifle my right to freedom of speech. I am not doing anything wrong. You might hate what I say; you might hate me. But you – particularly you – are not going to stifle my right to freedom of speech. Get used to it.

It shall be interesting to see what happens when
Parliament resumes on 10th September 2018.

I'm hoping that priorities will be given to issues
that are of concern to us all. And I do feel that
the issue of bullying should be addressed and cleared
up. I do not agree with Big Nana. Yes women should be
up to take what comes with the job - but non-one should
have to feel threatened in any job or unsafe. And that
needs to have the light shone on it - as to what happened,
by whom, and why. Certain behaviour should certainly be
unacceptable whether it's targeted at males or females and
whether its done by either a male or a female.

For heavens sake - a young talented person - has resigned
because of this.

Misogyny or the feminisation of the workplace. Which is causing more damage? The demoralisation of Police forces and armies and lack of male teachers through feminist ideology or Bishop missing out on being PM. First world issues.

ttbn are you the son of another poster here? are your deliberate barbs aimed on his behalf? I put my true name and address here this week, for about the tenth time, full documentation including drivers license is here for anyone to view, is your insulting behavior personal? inherited? or are you just a fool? last time, lay off or reveal who you truly are

Big Nana, finally a relevant posting.
I agree, after all the years of whinging and whining we have had to endure by the 'weaker' sex, about equality, when they are finally faced with it, they fail abysmally.
Why?
Because they're NOT MEN!
Personally one of the reasons I have never given this topic, and other similar or related topics any time or cred, is because I just don't care.
Why don't I care?
Because it is a nothing topic in a world of actually real and relevant topics.
We have to listen this diatribe of petulant behaviour by a bunch of pre-pubescent children as if they're squabbling over who gets ti sit in the window seat, or equally stupid antics.
Hello people, you should not be allowed to comment at all if you can't see that running the country is a just a poofteenth more relevant and important than whether some maggot qualifies for the 'look at moyeee' award.
Bloody posers and show offs the lot of em.
Apart from the fact that the govt is a total self indulgent group of thieves and they know how to con a very ignorant and naive public, I think they should all be lined up and given 'the final solution'.
Yes you read it right, we don't need this type of crap running the country.
Well at least not this country.
Forget your petty nit-picking, and focus on the bigger picture.
Who cares if some bimbo gets picked on, the ship is out of control whilst you halfwits prattle on about inane matters.
Aim your angst at ALL the members of parliament, not just the odd one who says or does something completely irrelevant to their major responsibility as to why they are there in the first place.
Once they are out of politics, who cares?
Where's Turnbull?
Who?
He's gone, so as far as we are concerned he does not exist.
So let's focus on the ones who do unfortunately, still exist, and not some stupid petty issues.

G'day there TTBN...

Your reference that someone was describing a few females in the workplace as 'fat hairy lesbians', have I got it right? Mate I'm here to tell you, we've got a few of them in the coppers, some of whom are big and angry enough, to hold a bull out to piss! Tough 'ladies' believe me. But a necessary group, to handle those 'delicate tricky' incidences where force is needed with the fairer sex.

Your reference to BELLY...

I've known this bloke (Belly) for as long as I've been on The FORUM. Our politics, perhaps our entire social structure and community ideology, I suspect are diametrically opposed. However, the important tenets of life, our shared morality, even our ethics, I believe are of one. BELLY possesses among the highest level of principles and ethical standards, I've yet to see on The Forum.

His time as a Foreman and Union Delegate, working the highways and byways of NSW, I could only imagine he'd be the centre of many fascinating and humours stories. Way back when I was with the NSW STP (the precursor to the NSW 'Hwy' Patrol) running around in Cooper 'S' (yeah it sure was a squeeze!), on many occasions, the road gangs would give aid to police whenever they confronted trouble. Remember the coppers worked 'one out' in those days.

Another well known matter, a member of the Highway Patrol was badly beaten, and left on the side of the road. And it was several blokes from a nearby road gang, who stopped the perpetrators from occasioning further violence to the beaten policeman. By threatening the individuals concerned, with their tools - probably saving the copper from further life threatening violence. So you can see I have a soft spot for the guy - a more honest, pragmatic sort of bloke you could ever wish to find I reckon. Thought I'd provide you with another aspect of BELLY'S personality. A more genuine, and sincere gentleman, you could ever wish to meet. Thanks mate.

o sung wo if only I dare! yes you have it right my older Pacific highway was known as the highway of death, not without reason, old copies of papers countrywide will confirm cops, even the hard A,s ones knew we where there for them, a motorbike cop hide behind my truck, by request, to catch trucks 30 klm over the limit, he great bloke, was knocked off his bike but ok, we went to court many times before the offender was convicted, no need to tell of many times we held wanted cars in lines after hearing they had police chasing them, yes we share different views but that is what make our country great we can stand nose to tail on election day waiting to vote for different sides the have a coffee or beer together as mates do,
Worth noting ttbn may well be acting on behalf of a very long time workmate and yes friend, we fell out a few times but he hates my view of one nation, *this bit belongs in my humor thread but as both timekeeper at a worksite [road reconstruction] and one of 5 in a share car travelling to work, he DOCkED the other 4 not himself* 6 MINUTES FOR BEING LATE!ttbn let it lay, so you do not like me boy,, know by your efforts I do not like you let this be the last time we speak to each other for no other reason than the forums sake

Belly,

So, you've decided to be the troll now. I'm 75 years old. What chance would there be of me having a father on OLO? My father was a lefty, just like you. Unlike you, he was reasonably intelligent. But like you, he was a real pain in the arse and a bully. Had he not died at the age of 78, he would be 100 years old now. He never knew what a computer was, and had certainly not heard of social media. You really do live in la la land.

Why on earth would you reveal your true name and address? I will not be “laying off” or revealing who I really am, you thorough going idiot.

73 here and sorry you are not the person I thought mate this verbal tennis is my game believe me ,but you are not worth the effort you Sir are a troll and a foolish one it seems it is up to me, in truth GY should have warned us both this is no way to behave but I end this now, know you need help, and will never see me taunted and reacting to you again

not sure if expressing our opinions and having them slammed does any of us any good if it creates such anger. I am as guilty as anyone else. One day we will discover our enemies are not flesh and blood. I hold my views stronger than most because I love this country and see it going the way of many others quickly. Wish it wasn't true but my views have become more entrenched since joining olo a long time ago. Maybe olo is a reflection of our nation. Much division, colliding ideology and evening spilling into hatred. Thankfully I don't experience that with my neighbours despite some of them being druggies and a different colour. Yep I hate the ideologies that I see as anti God, anti family etc but will give the whole thing away if it means hating people.

Hi Belly,

You are one of decency, and your words ring loud and clear no matter how you phrase them, I read every word as true to your convictions. As I advised when you were being harangued some years back by a nemesis then, in the form of the poster 'onthebeach', toughen up and apply the 'Armadillo Principle' simple as it is.

Should my little granddaughter utter a few words; "Pop, you are an arsehole!" I would be hurt grievously. Should the forums 'Toad' the poster unleash a personal tirade; "Paul1405, you are the scummies, piece of dog crap etc etc....Iv'e every come across!" It has absolutely no effect, as I don't have any personal relationship with 'Toad', only words typed on a computer.

Anyway Belly, come the next election you and I will be swapping preference, on the road to hopefully a Labor victory.

BTW; Not a good idea posting your real name and address on a public forum, there could be a few nutters lurking in the shadows.

Talking of nutters....

ttbn, you say you are 75, congratulations, that makes you a fully fledged member of the forums 'Cranky Old Men's Club' no longer a mere associate member. You are now entitled to a fresh pair of clean sheets from "Nursy", after each night of bed wetting, not just on Sundays.

Paul,

I was going to say that you are a pathetic human being; but I'll drop the human being bit.

runner never ever doubted the one thing we share is total absolute love of our country, we post, from opposite side of politics what we think is true, sometimes we will both be wrong Paul thanks mate we are that, will do, and if the preferences swap is on count me in honey moon or not only a new government with new directions will do.

Hi runner, I see another side of you from your last post, your best for some time.
Question; I am somewhat surprised that you're not in support of Senator Lucy Gichuhi. She identifies as an African/Australian in a multicultural society. Firstly nominated as a Senator for the sudo-religious conservative party, Family First, she broke away as an independent, not wishing to go with FF to join Bernardi's Conservatives. Her words; ""Family First is a party that shares my values and my hope for Australia and I am proud to be a member of that team,"
Runner, a party with a philosophy you would support?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFsWewYD-aE

Julie Bishop has come out fighting on misogyny in the Liberal Party.
Firing some heavy broadsides at the party today.

“I have seen and witnessed and experienced some appalling behaviour in parliament, the kind of behaviour that 20 years ago when I was managing partner of a law firm of 200 employees I would never have accepted,” Bishop said.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/06/julie-bishop-appalling-behaviour-politics-enough-is-enough

I look forward to the day when all of us on this forum will
be able to discuss any issues without anger and insults.
When we shall be able to passionately commit truly to
freedom of thought and speech.

But I guess that hoping for too much.

Dear Belly,

You're being very wise to just walk away from things
that negative people will try to do to you.
Here's a list that I've come across:

1) Demean your value
2) Destroy your image
3) Drive you crazy
4) Dispose of your dreams
5) Discredit your imagination
6) Defame your abilities

And -

7) Disbelieve your opinions.

Stay away from these people.
Because you give them a platform by arguing with them.
Don't. Arguing with them is about as effective as a
fart in a blizzard. They're the reason the middle-finger
was invented. Know that you have many friends on this
forum. Friends who love and respect you. And look forward
to you posts. Because you DO have something worthwhile to
say. Always. And Paul is right - do not give out your
contact details on a public forum. HUGE mistake.

Take care my friend.

'Julie Bishop has come out fighting on misogyny in the Liberal Party.
Firing some heavy broadsides at the party today. '

20 years of silence. Why now? Sour grapes maybe. Still waiting for names and actions. Emma Hussar seemed to be the queen of bullies.

Runner,

I think it's not "sour grapes," as you put it.
Perhaps she's had enough - and feels it's better to
lose her position than her integrity?

Paul,
I think it is ironic that you raise this issue in the Liberal Party, obviously to smear the liberals, and now there are serious issues raised from a staffer in the Greens. Serious claims that may warrant court action. So much for you taking the high moral ground.

Foxy,
You apparently have forgotten that, to date, the issues are merely allegations and no substance has been put forward, let alone any evidence. Nothing has been said about which group engaged in bullying, perhaps both opposing groups may have been tough.

You appear to accept what the women have said as truth, without question.

I do not mind any party having a leadership spill and electing a new leader. If the present one is a dud, as was Turnbull, the pary has to get rid of him or her. This happened in the Labor party twice a couple of years back. What I would not like to see is rule changes that make it more difficult to oust a dud leader. That is what Labor did and I think it is a mistake.

Banjo, no moral high ground on my part. //you raise this issue in the Liberal Party, obviously to smear the liberals,// Yes, I'm not Mother Teresa.

//there are serious issues raised from a staffer in the Greens.// you raise this issue in the Green Party, obviously to smear the Greens. So much for you taking the high moral ground.
You apparently have forgotten that, to date, the issues are merely allegations and no substance has been put forward, let alone any evidence. Are you referring to a former state leader accused of referring to women in the workplace as "fat, hairy lesbians", "power pussies" and "hairy-legged feminists"?

Paul,
I recall as a kid there was a saying that 'people in glass houses should not throw stones'

Good to see that your attempt to label another party as misogynist has come back and bit you on your green bum.

Is Misogyny still alive and well in the Greens party?

Hi Banjo,

Misogyny, is probably alive and well to some degree in the Green Party, Red Party, Blue Party as well as the LIBERAL PARTY. That does not mean its not to be discussed by anyone who is member of a political party. Do you think Julie Bishop is also in a glass house throwing stones? After all she has not resigned from the Liberal Party, yet! I find your comments rather nebulous, to be applied fairly no one on the forum would discuss anything of a political nature, as all including you, havw a political bias, therefore we are all throwing stones, you just threw one. Except for those that are "apolitical", but they would not be members of this forum in the first place.

Judging by some of the comments on this thread, misogyny is alive and well in a number of households across Australia. How's things down your way?

How many of us have seen a woman who has been bashed by her partner? bruised and bloodied, how did you feel about that? what if it was your daughter?this thread highlights demeaning behavior by men, against women, who happen to be in this current government.
It could have been about any party any group of men, if it was About my membership and support of white ribbon, by now I would have been targeted, men would scream what about men! read the posts here, absorb them, they prove Misogyny lives still
IF this thread was about the Australian Labor Party, the reactions of some would be reversed! that should tell us something if only we will listen

Interestingly, many of the DV incidences I've had to attend over the years, apart from being the most difficult of all jobs for a copper to resolve, with the victim and the aggressor are hard to identify.

Many younger folk view the woman as the victim, but over time, we learn the victim and/or the aggressor can change coats momentarily? Is DV another form of misogyny? Where the man of the house asserts his rights as the Boss? It's as well there're many protections now in the workplace, to ensure women have equal opportunity with men.

Make no mistake, In some industries women are streaks ahead of men, especially if they are young and attractive. Please excuse me, I don't mean to be offensive, but it's known as the 'vertical smile'.

Many of the Bosses in my former industry, have younger delicately featured, young ladies as their Personal Assistants. And it causes much dislocation, in the overall atmosphere of the Command's morale?

Especially when a middle management Officer (Inspector, Chief Inspector, even a Superintendent) needs immediate access to the Boss, and a young PA (at Constable level) quizzing him, as to all the details!

Four or five of them would have their lunch or morning tea together, causing much resentment among the others, particularly when they occupied the partitioned off section, (usually reserved for AC's and above) of the HQ Canteen. Because they were PA's, and as such, they believed they had inalienable rights. A few would call it the 'bitch's coven'.

This sort of blatant exhibition of sexism, causes insurmountable damage to morale, of the entire organisation.

Is Misogyny still alive and well in the Liberal Party?

I guess we may find out more when Parliament sits
again on Monday - 10th September 2018. Hopefully the
allegations being made by certain female MPs will be
looked into and not simply brushed aside. Everyone
deserves to feel safe in their workplace and bullying
should be unacceptable no matter who does it.
Calling complainants by a variety of derogatory names
does not achieve anything productive nor does it do anything
towards helping to solve the problem.

Hi Foxy,

Not all misogynists are knuckle dragging oaf's who throw the abuse at women when they feel threatened or intimidated. Often they are pleasant, even well meaning sods who outwardly could be described as congenial to females.

In the work place these types of misogynists are often to be found in occupations that were once traditionally male dominated. In those industries where today women are filling many of the senior decision making positions, some males, generally the long term under achievers, are resentful of such women. These guys will invent the most derogatory of reasons why the woman is in that position, "its because of her big tits", that kind of unjustified nonsense. These malcontents will cluster together in corners, and at desks, where they will bemoan their own sorry position at the expense of someone who is their superior in so many ways.

Foxy,
I agree with Big Nana, these women want equality but now want special treatment. If they can't stand the heat they should get out of the kitchen.

You said, "For heavens sake- a young talented person- has resigned because of this"

How do you know she is talented? Maybe she is simply not up to the job and/or has made up the bullying thing for backing the losing candidate. JH spoke about 'Ticker'.

I have not yet seen male members complain about any bullying.

I see the PM has said the party will deal with it internally and that is the right place to air any problems. It is Lib party business.

Banjo,

It is Liberal Party business - and I agree that hopefully it
will be handled and not brushed aside by the party. But,
somehow I doubt if the Opposition will leave it at that.

How do I know if she's talented? Simply from her CV - and
what her colleagues and others have said about her. She also
won a seat that I believe was a safe Labor seat - so the
voters must have also thought she was a capable and talented
person to have voted for her.

By now most if not all of us will have heard the National party did not hand down a ruling in the case they investigated about Barnaby Joyce, and the woman complainant is not happy,yes o sung wo women can and often are the aggressor, personal experience has shown me that, deliberate abuses of husband and kids in care just to horrible to see, then blame the man, but this is about a truth, the current government has yet to confront its lack of women, its current charges both men and women have been bullied and next weeks sitting will be interesting

Banjo,

A few links on the subject that may help clarify things
for you.

Telling women to "toughen up" (as Alan Jones did) according
to Julie Bishop is not the answer. She says - it should be -
"Enough is Enough!"

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/sep/06/julie-bishop-appalling-behaviour-politics-enough-is-enough

And - here's Julia Banks - impressive background:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Banks

enough is enough. I feel another virtue signalling hashtag coming on.

Hi Belly,

It looks like a National Party white wash in the Joyce investigation. The old boys club of Nationals investigating on of their own, how pathetic is that. The bloke has form and there is a suspicion that no adverse finding was ever going to be made. The Nationals are trying to bury the whole fiasco.

"While dismayed at the finding, I am not surprised as the party never had the external processes in place to deal with a complaint of sexual harassment by a Member of Parliament," said Catherine Marriott.

In a brief statement, the New South Wales Nationals confirmed the complaint had been finalised, and that the report will be kept confidential. Not good enough.

Paul yes saw that this week will be more than interesting as parliament sits, anyone of us who questions Misogyny exists need only read every post in this thread, now most will not agree but the openly placing woman as secondary,, think about it,,,resembles one of the things we dislike about Islam.

Dear Belly,

I read about a commentator interviewing the daughter
of Sir Robert Menzies recently - and she asked 'Whatever's
happened to our Great Party?" Or words to that effect.

Indeed. I guess we'll get a glimpse on Monday when Parliament
sits. It's a shame for any party when personal ambitions
become more important than anything else. However there is no
excuse for bullying others at work. I know and speak from
experience - I used to work with a woman whose goal in life was
to look for my mistakes and then run to the boss about it and
speak about me within my ear-shot. It was a tactic that even
today - I can feel it's scars. So bullying does have serious
repercussions. And it's not a question of "toughening up."
It's a question of ensuring that this behaviour does not happen
to ANYONE.

There are often other agendas linked with issues of identity politics. Issues of power usually.

When competing with men in sport for example women are on average 163 cm compared with men at 176 cm- so in a boxing match for example the man will tend to have longer arms. In a boxing match having a longer reach is a big advantage. So in a boxing match woman are in theory on average inferior to men. In any team it's important to maximize benefits by allocating tasks based on skills and abilities. We need to take care not to under estimate peoples abilities however sometimes broad measures need to be taken to rationalize the problems complexity- this is a form of stereotyping. The danger of not recognizing abilities is loss of productivity. When competing for the highest prizes such as the boxing world champion those with fewer natural advantages tend to get pruned from the lineup. Character can be a deciding factor on occasion. Politics is a "high prize".

It's largely unknown perhaps why for various reasons women are under-represented in certain roles- the tendency rightly or wrongly has been to blame the male patriarchy. Jordan Peterson's interview with Cathy Newman is interesting. Women seem generally happy to receive positive bias but not negative bias- as an organizations leader you want individuals to be self sufficient and competent. Someone that is reliant on positive bias might not be a good partner.

Sometimes women (or others) in high positions might stir up mass support of women (or others) because they are more likely to benefit from changes in power.

I'd suggest that trickle down economics are more likely to work in a family than in a community.

The issue of gender equality in politics is more complex than most know...

Generally in a democracy- mis-representation is mis-government. But local bias (in this case within the family) is better than national bias (think of two opposing national level groups).

The biggest difference between men and women is that women are always moaning about misogyny, but men don't seem to bother themselves with misandry. I can think of many reasons for this, but women should start thinking why this is so: they might just find some answers to their problem. They might just find that the problem really lies with them, and blaming men will not solve the problem.

I would've thought misogyny has all but evaporated in Federal Parliament today. You only have to look at the ladies currently holding down Portfolio's & Shadow Portfolio's to see evidence of that.

Whereas I believe any allocation of specific Ministries should be entirely based on Merit and merit alone.

There are many incredibly smart ladies in Parliament on both sides, if they haven't yet been selected to head a Ministry/Shadow Ministry, perhaps it's time they should be given ago immediately. Even if it means removing a sitting Minister, like Christopher PINE, who is as intellectual bereft of everything, as I am!

To the question: Is Misogyny still alive and well in the Liberal (LNP) Party? I think my first paragraph has answered that. Though given the Topic's originator (a Green) nothing that might seek to contradict him would ever do. Only those who would agree with him would satisfy his Green credentials.

Lets have a look at the make up of Federal Parliament based on gender;
Female representation by party;

Nationals 14%
Liberal 21%
Labor 44%
Greens 50%

The Morrison Ministry 23 (79%) male, 6 (21%) female

//I would've thought misogyny has all but evaporated in Federal Parliament today. You only have to look at the ladies currently holding down Portfolio's & Shadow Portfolio's to see evidence of that.//

//To the question: Is Misogyny still alive and well in the Liberal (LNP) Party? I think my first paragraph has answered that.//

If your own figures look lousy, just add in the better figures of your opponents to improve yours!

Well done Walloper.

Women make up half the population but when they look
at the Liberal Party they see men.

The Liberal Party
is not just struggling to get women into Parliament
it is also struggling to get women voters to vote
for them.

Women make amazing MPs and local representatives
but they sometimes just need to see other women and hear
from other women and see that it is possible. And so far
only 18 out of 84 MPs in the Liberal Party are women -
Not a good look.

Australia ranks 50th in the world for female representation,
sandwiched between the Philippines and South Sudan.

The following link gives more:

http://abc.net.au/news/2017-11-27/liberal-party-lack-of-women-costing-votes/9175150

Probably the reason why women are under represented on the Conservative Side is because a higher proportion are Socially Conservative. I'm sure that many women see female representation as a critical issue- I'm not sure that it will get them what they want. But it's their choice. If things don't work out well we can point to this time.

While men and women are fighting they are less effective as a force against outside forces.

You can "slice and dice" the community in many ways. I prefer local over global. In my sphere of influence females have fair equality of opportunity. Feminism divides the community- I prefer a local community that is united in order to be strong against the globalist tyranny. There needs to be a "balance in the hierarchy" between the levels of the world community- between the individual/ family/ street/ local community/ state/ nation/ region/ world.

Perhaps in some ways feminism has provided a greater labor force in effect reducing wages (due to increased supply of workers) and causing inflation (because of the increased divorce rate) and poverty.

With all these paradigms it's important to understand both sides- and most times there are more than two sides.

Females want more power- fine- but remember 100% of zero is still zero

Hi there TTBN...

My apologies, but I forgot to mention your latest contribution. You know I never thought of that? You're absolutely spot on! It is the fairer sex that habitually raise allegations of misogyny, popularised by one of our lessor lights in the Office of Prime Minister; a Ms.Julia GILLARD who sought to employ the term, to describe and malign one, Mr Anthony ABBOTT.

There could never be anything else that might impinge upon the lady's promotion perhaps? Inability to lead? Potential for favouritism? Could be anything at all I guess - Nevertheless they cry out 'misogyny'.

A question if I may please TTBN...? Is this the same (intellectual) lady, who endowed us all with that gem of Prime Ministerial pronunciation - 'high per bowl' meaning hyperbole?

I couldn't imagine ANY law graduate, capable of mispronouncing anything, let alone a well used noun meaning 'exaggeration, overstatement or embellishment' among others. All of which are words often used in preparing criminal briefs, and in civil jurisprudence as well.

Especially a lawyer working in the hallowed chambers of the eminent Slater & Gordon? Anyway there you go!

Talking about government or any other organisations fiddling with gender 'quotas’ is a waste of time and space. Being a politician is not a proper job; it is the only paid activity that does not require any qualifications apart from the ability to read and write, and to have the gift of the gab.

Quotas are an insult to any self-respecting woman.

Many women are very successful in the professions and in business: many of the latter being self-employed because of their entrepreneurship and logical brains - not something common in women. They are still women, but they are 'different’ from most woman, and they are often made to feel different by other woman who might like to be just like them, but cannot understand why they can't be. Like it or not, woman are created differently from men, and there are just a few of them who are lucky enough - or cursed enough - to have traits normally associated with males.

Women who can, do. And they don't have the time to complain about 'misogyny’.

o sung wu,

Yes indeed. It was the great lawyer Julia Gillard who thought that hyperbole was where you kept the fruit

o sung wo you once said you thought I was honest, well let me prove it!that filthy word *solidarity* is meant by some in my party to hide filth, that woman suffered the greatest abuse ever seen in this countrys politics, in truth some of it from me, see a small group knifed Rudd, not just her,she by the way was sacked by Slater and Gordon, her then boyfriend, known to me personally, was/is/and always will be filth,he infestered my life time union,and came nose to nose with me,he was the one who walked away, he got removed as such filth should be, gentlemen I DO however think this government and many in this country are Misogynists, Trueday the first day of a new sitting will be telling remember in every case it is women from the conservative side that make these claims

[Deleted for abuse.]

All organizations need both defensive and offensive capabilities. Traditionally males filled the defensive role within families and society. The danger of an disproportionally defensive role in the hierarchy of society is vulnerability. You cannot rely on law or systems completely to protect you- it's necessary to act.

If you can convince your opponent to let down their guard you can attack them without fear.

Everyone perhaps needs to work together in the community for the greater good- there can be a problem with conscientious objectors as they get the benefit of security without taking the personal risk- hence cowardice is discouraged in successful societies.

G'day there BELLY...

I really can't say. In my own industry misogyny was alive 'n well. As was the 'vertical' smile sadly. I'll apologise for using that remark, however it is true. I may've mentioned to you about a driver I had, when I was supervisory sergeant.

As we did our rounds she asked what I thought her chances were of getting into a particular section. A section that avoided all night and weekend work, which she wanted. I said probably very little chance, at all? She gave me a stunning smile and nothing more was said.

Sure enough she got it. Such is the culture, that existed in those times. She knew when she joined the job, it involved night and weekend work? Yet tried hard to avoid it ,shortly after she joined, claiming as she did it interfered with her social life?

I'll tell you BELLY she had no right obtaining the transfer, there were several blokes who'd been 'on the road' upwards of 3 years, far more deserving of the transfer than her? Another instance of the power of the 'Vertical Smile' v Misogyny.

[Deleted for abuse]

I've been reading all the various comments.
There's certainly some interesting ones on the subject.
However, whether we agree of not - isn't the point.
What matters is that the Liberal Party has to realise
that if it's going to have a chance of winning the next
election it has to realise that - winning government
means communicating to a broad constituency - of which
women are a major part.

Well said and true Foxy the days of thinking a great smile will win the female vote are long gone

Dear Belly,

Julie Bishop has been such a loyal party member -
but even she's had enough and is totally disgusted
by the current goings on. And she's always been a
"team player."

"Enough is Enough!" are her words.

[Deleted for abuse.]

[Deleted for abuse.]

It seems that the battle axes and harpies in the Liberal party are determined to lower even further their chances of being in government after the next election. It is to be hoped that they will enable the coming loss by losing their own seats, and leave us all in peace.

[Deleted for abuse.]

Paul, the advice you gave me was top draw best take it mate, as you know it shows strength, watching the Wagga results?

Things do have to change within the party that's
for sure. But whether they will - we shall have
to wait and see. Here are two links that may be of
interest:

http://theconversation.com/minister-for-women-kelly-odwyer-says-liberals-were-subject-to-threats-in-leadership-battle-102608

And -

http://news.com.au/entertainment/tv/minister-for-women-says-liberal-mps-were-subject-to-threats-intimidation/news-story/cf79db036cd7c15d0db140d31

cont'd ...

Oooops, sorry - my apologies for the error I made to the second
link. Here it is again:

http://news.com.au/entertainment/tv/minister-for-women-says-liberal-mps-were-subject-to-threats-intimidation/news-story/cf79db036cd7c15d0db140d31cf8c6a7

[Deleted for abuse.]

Hi Belly,

Thanks for the good advice. Wagga looks a win for the Independent Joe McGerr on Labor preferences.

I didn't know ol' Joe was a misogynist?
Well, well, you just never know do you?
I would never have guessed.
This comes as a shock to many people.
Ha well, he's only a normal healthy man.

Any employee in this country is entitled to not
only a safe work environment, but if bullied or
intimidated, they should have avenues for the
resolution of conflict.

Federal Liberal Member of Parliament Craig Laundy
has called on his party to introduce anti-bullying
measures after complaints were received of both
bullying and intimidation from some colleagues during
the bitter leadership spill.

Mr Laundy, a former workplace Minister
said that an internal panel was needed to deal with
bullying complaints from Members of Parliament.
He stated that "...political parties are not only
not above the law, they should lead by example."

Defence Minister Christopher Pyne agreed and stated that
complaints of bullying should be made formally and dealt
with through the proper process via the Chief Whip - Nola
Merino.

Many members of the Liberal Party have agreed that this matter
does need investigation for the sake of all Members of
Parliament.

[Deleted for abuse.]

[Deleted for abuse.]

Paul, I know you aren't bothered by disparaging and demeaning comments.
I am concerned that the bickering takes us away from the topic in question.
I know that this being a non dimensional medium it makes people feel 'empowered' and 'untouchable'.
Unfortunately Paul, the trade off is that the other commentors on OLO are watching these exchanges and like it or not they begin forming opinions, which is after all what this forum is all about.
Paul, I can see your a tough 'ole bugger', and good for you.
If you recall I used to get a little hot under the collar myself, probably more than you, but I had a reality check and thought if I want people to read my posts, I have to be more accommodating and knock it down a notch.
I don't know if I have redeemed myself but just knowing I may have gone in a little too hard at times, is a good start I reckon.
I realise you are wired the way you are and that is OK, because you are being yourself, honest, you are not being swayed by the PC brigade, expecting you to lie just to make them feel good.
Anyway, just thought that you deserved a heads up.
You never know, if I have spoken out of turn, forgive me, tell me so and I will not mention it again.
Back to topic.
Misogyny is a healthy and natural part of life, so why would it not be in the Liberal Party, the Labour Party, well actually it's everywhere.
So I suggest we all get used to it and get on with life.
Misogyny, is just another part of life.

Thanks ALTRAV, I'll take your advise and leave this as it be. On the score of police I certainly do not, and have never said all are bad. In fact in a "previous life" I had a fair bit to do with the police, on the right side of the law, 99.9% of those I encountered were decent people.

o sung wu, asked what work I did, well maybe I think I did something worthwhile at times, but I don't want to appear as a saint, I'm not, but lots to do with 'Centrelink'. Helping in a practical way to get people onto the right track, as best as. Like "Bill" my last, I get a call from a hospital social worker I know, can I go see this bloke Bill, she fills me in to what she knows. Bill had got into an altercation with a neighbour at the $160/week all single men boarding house dump where he is living, coppers involved, a trip to hospital for Bill. Took three trips before Bill opened the door. His circumstance 62, diagnosed mental illness, on long term 'Newstart' allowance ( a joke for the unemployable, for some they should call it the end of the road allowence), no family at all, just can't get by, wonders the streets everyday. All I got to do is get Bill onto a pension, and into somewhere half decent. After the altercation the landlord gave Bill notice, sorted that out. My involvement, see he's not on any charges, go to Centrelink, and to his employment manager (he unemployable, and has been for years), get him over to a pension (more money for Bill), get him on the houso list for accommodation, that took nine months. Get him the practical things he needs in the new place, fridge, table and chairs, TV (hocked anything he ever had) etc. See he does his hospital appointments. Get him a bloody mobile phone, how frustrating these days not to have a phone. Get him physically moved and settled in. In other words be the friend he hasn't got, that was easy as Bill is a likeable chap. Why me, I'm about his age and can relate with people like Bill, I suppose.
Then there was Phil 70, who lived in a million dollar house (his long dead mother's) without power, dirty as, no income, fell through the cracks, lived off begging, and ate meat pies. Phil's dead now.

ALTRAV you reminded me I AM in need of the chill pill too, yes some are quite wrong in targeting others but in truth there never will be anything other than the moderator can do
I overreact, but I NEVER EVER will consider all out verbal assault is what this site is all about
Not one of us can claim ever his/her views are the only ones
We can continue to, hopefully, say what we think
And I think females are humans, and that we men in this country often are Misogynists, including this government or some in it, tomorrow we may all be forced to agree
Many reasons exist why we do not have a remove them quick moderator, in my view, the very reason this site exists is one, as we all have seen in the past some need this out let, some just must enforce their opinion with posts that may not please all, I maybe one of them, not quite sure, ask my self often, but if we are to forever insult each other we may as well be nothing more that graffiti on a wall

Dear Belly,

Robert Quillen, an acclaimed journalist who was also
a discussion specialist once said, "Discussion is an
exchange of knowledge, argument an exchange of
ignorance."

Now, that was quite some time ago, and with our new
technology and having access to various sites on the
web our methods of communication have changed a great deal.
They're no longer - face-to-face- but people can maintain
anonymity behind their computer screens.

However,
there still remains certain forms of etiquette and
rules that need to be followed. We have a Moderator
who as we know will delete unacceptable posts for abuse.
Posts that are - inflammatory and malicious comments
deliberately designed to provoke and upset people.
Comments that can have a psychological effect on people.

Avoiding this kind of dialogue is not "political correctness,"
it's simply civil behaviour. As my Gran used to tell me -
if you have to stoop to insults - you've lost the argument
because nobody supports an illogical and abusive debater.

Of course, we all will react when the right buttons are
pushed - and make remarks that are inappropriate
however, thankfully we do have our Moderator to
keep a check on what we say - even if at times to tend to
go over the top. I know I've been guilty in the past of also
doing just that. So we're not alone in this.

Foxy well said while in truth I have seen posts that desperately needed deleting I understand why they have not been, AFTER all this site is Online Opinion not just online opinion we agree with.
We should all be thankful.
That if the degree of dislike and open hate, yes hate, some post here about ANY ONE who holds different views was part of the wider community we would not be the great country we are.
I will never stop thinking it is those who need to insult anyone from any party just because they dislike that party who are wrong too that some, by their online persona warn us something is not quite right and we should not take too much notice of them

PAUL1405...

Interesting - Your work with Centrelink, the needy and those who're indigent, is really not too far removed from what the uniformed coppers do. Those you see slowly driving through many of the inner city parks at night, in the F150 Truck.

Contrary to what the public might believe, they're not there to hassle these old homeless 'chats' as they're called in Long Bay, but the hoodlum class who tend to prey upon these old fellas, particularly on Pension Day.

While it's true the police have a law enforcement role, they do (individually), have a much stronger and personal welfare role, often giving these poor ol' buggers their own 'sangers' and fruit, even cigarettes their wives have given them for their night shift meal.

They also have a less than pleasant task of dealing with the dead - these poor old blokes who die during the night due to exposure, alcoholism, or a combination of all of them, including just general poor health. After the Coroner, they're more often then not, interred in Rookwood's 'Potters Field'. And not a tear is shed, except perhaps by the lone policeman/women who was the 'case officer' of the death.

So you can see, your role and that of the coppers, are not all that dissimilar. The absolute top Definition of Police Service, above all things is:- 'The Protection of Life'. And human 'welfare' is very much part of that 'Protection'.

According to the media, the Banks woman was a "strong, brave, independent and amazing woman". This is the same woman who intends scuttling away from politics to escape 'bullying'. She is either not as described at all, or words mean different things to different people - as with the "popular" Julie Bishop who received only 11 votes. The same media report has several women deciding that politics isn't for them. Anyone could have told them that before they blundered in, wasting taxpayers' money.

Dear Belly,

You've raised some valid points.

We do need to renew dialogue with those who do not
agree with us. We mustn't think that Australia is
immune to the problems that other nations are having,
any more than any of us are immune to the flu if its
going around. Many of the things that most of us were
brought up to think "could never happen here" have
already begun to happen. Dangerous scapegoating,
violent hate crimes, small-minded intolerance for the
views of others.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I have the highest respect for our "protective forces."
Be they paramedics, ambulance officers, police
officers, our military, and so on. Where would we be
without them and the services that they provide for us and
our communities?

I stand by my claim that if the same degree of hate or dislike was on show in our community at large that is seen here we would live in a very sad country

Dear Belly,

We've had a harrowing couple of weeks in politics.
People have been very emotional. Myself included.
But as you know - Australians are a resilient lot
and we do come together in times of crisis.
Hopefully our politicians will be all the better
and stronger because of what's happened in Canberra.
That they will learn from the mistakes made and move
forward to a brighter and better future for all of us.

Everything is relative, everyone has obstacles to overcome.
They are our greatest teachers. Each of us goes through
transitions and transformations. The important thing is
that we acknowledge them and learn from them.

Now I'm sounding like a preacher. I don't mean to.
I just want to add that I have only my own life experiences
to go on. Every relationship is a gift. What great gifts
I've been given by so many people on this forum. How they
have helped me in my times of stress and also helped shape
me into the person I have become and still hope to be.
I've met some of the most extra-ordinary creatures. Yes
we argue - and often say things that we perhaps shouldn't -
but that's how we learn and I don't for one moment regret
being part of the family of this forum's posters.

Is the cloths horse still throwing a wobbly because no one wanted her as PM. Apparently the party has been covering up her incompetence for years, but some how that has become bullying when they did not make her leader.

Thank god for some new found level of sense in Canberra. Pity it wasn't there when they were stupid enough to vote Turnbull leader.

Dear Hassie,

Julie Bishop has been a great Foreign Affairs
Minister and an attribute to the Liberal Party.
She's been loyal to the core and a team player.
She deserved more than the 11 votes from her WA
colleagues - who now claim they were bullied,
and intimidated. (Not her words). She did not
start the complaining - so's it's not fair to blame
her for the behaviour of the ones who actually did
the bullying and the intimidation. They need to be held
accountable. Trying to win at someone else's expense
is an old paradigm and an increasingly obsolete model
of success. Separation leads to disintegration.
And uniting and joining leads to miracles.

cont'd ...

Dear Hassie,

BTW -

What would have been wrong with our first female Liberal
Prime Minister wearing diamante-studded stilettos
and dressed in Armani?

John Howard liked expensive suits, and many Liberal MPs
still do. Akubra hats aren't cheap either.

Belly, you have hit another home run.
What you read here is exactly what you have described.
'A very sad country'.
The reason you are right is that a medium such as this (a forum), allows people a freedom that they would not otherwise experience in public, face to face, conversations.
That of being free to say what they 'truly feel', without peer pressure or threat of physical harm.
Forums are one of the few places we can truly speak freely, and thank God for that.
I must make a correction.
It is only true if the moderators do not over edit or put onerous restrictions on what is written.
But fear not.
If we completely crush PC and hold on to our right to freedom of speech, and that includes the right to insult or berate someone if the need arises, and not be swayed by the Nancy's and the Neuters.
We must not let these mentally and emotionally challenged people stop us from exercising our freedoms.
To do so would be living a lie.
So you see Belly, it's not those of us who speak freely and openly that are the problem.
It is those out there who promote all this namby pamby stuff that are guilty of turning us into 'A very sad country' indeed.

ALTRAV, well I AGREE, even fully know why you said that.
Dare I? why not. sometimes a sad old thing we call onset dementia can be reason some lash out, lost a great bright mate to it recently, he is still alive, but not his brain, he lives in one of those last ever homes far away in another state.
My task is to tuck the ball under my arm, take it [my views up] and try as hard as I can not to needlessly knock others over

Hi Belly,

Our niece Honey played for St George yesterday against the Bronco's in the first grade woman's rugby league competition, it was on TV. Honey had a good game in a losing side, all Auntie was concerned with was that no one got hurt.

In the Army they sometimes say that the enemy will "bully you" much more than anyone. It's just a flesh wound- walk it off. There are levels. In the Army some have been killed by bullying.

What they talk about as bullying in politics and society is very different. Women bully too- but they tend to do it differently to the way men do it. Men tend to under report bullying especially against women. As they say it takes two to have an argument. At the end of the day the law is a blunt instrument. Joseph Nye talked about Soft Power- setting a good example for behavior. Sadly many see good behavior as an opportunity to bully.

Personality/ Communication is a many faceted thing- what works in a situation won't in another. The bullying accusation is just a way of getting power- while blindly tearing down the pillars that protect society.

Politicians (actors too) strain against each other for advantage- using every underhanded strategy they can- the public needs to take claims in context.

Because of the pressures of society and scarcity of resources- day to day activities have become a bloody tooth and nail battle to climb over the pile of bodies. This devalues life itself.

There are too many people with too many incompatible ideas.

Good Morning Canem Malum,

Thank You for your multi-faceted comments.

You have the gift or should I say - the talent
of presenting us with more than one perspective
on any discussion. That enriches and raises the
bar for us all.

Sorry; correction.
I should have included 'fit for purpose'.
At present, 'renewables' are NOT fit for purpose.

'Is Misogyny Still Alive and Well in the Liberal Party?'

Not so sure but am convinced that emasculated males and marxist feminist have far to much say in the abc (sorry Labour party). The worst of the two 'evils' you might say.

runner,

We can add shock jocks and powerful columnists to the
mix. They also know how to try to influence people.

If voters are given false or misleading information, the
democratic process becomes a sham. It is therefore
important that the media and public officials do try to
tell the truth. But as we know that does not always happen.
A democracy requires its citizens to make informed choices
but if voters and their representatives are denied access to
the information they need to make these choices, or if
they are given false or misleading information - under such
circumstances, the people cannot use their rights in a
meaningful way.

Runner do you watch fox news? how about listening to Alan Jones? other right of reality shock jocks on your must hear list?
It is my view every one of them should be made compulsory to see and hear, top it off with every Trump tweet and every supporting jurnal. 'Then just maybe such an inoculation can make us immune to such total crap.

Foxy, I am heartened to see you too believe in the telling of the truth.
As I have regularly said, if we are going to be denied our inalienable right to speak the truth we cannot engage in an honest and truthfull debate or discussions.
Telling the truth also requires not contaminating the truth or facts by the introduction of words which may change the impact or intent of the message or the distortion of the details because it might offend or upset someone.
As the saying goes; 'If the truth hurts, to bad, it is still the truth'.
That's why the phrase; 'get over it' is so used in some cases.
The fact that the telling of a truth, hurt the recipients feelings, in no way de-values the message or the messenger.
Which is what PC wrongly and dis-respectfully contends.
To do otherwise, is to lie.
Clearly this is obvious.
There is no other interpretation to this fact.

I think it's a question of attitude in the language
that we use in our speech. Few people
would deliberately use foul-language to make a point.
Unless it was some sort of a compulsion or as a result
of a limited vocabulary.

Most of us think of ourselves as tolerant persons, even
passionate in our belief that we have a right to say
whatever we want. However we want. But it is often
apparent that we all have a continuing obligation to work
on our attitudes. Every day we hear of grievances in
connection with spoken language hurled at teens on the web.
Who end up committing suicide. It is of course the height of
arrogance to think that we can go on being malicious - and
get away with it. Words do hurt - particularly the vunerable.

An absence of courtesy and understanding is inexcusable
and should prick the conscience of all of us. Our aim should
always be to behave with respect towards others, and to
encourage this in all people.

Nobody is trying to deliberately stop anyone from expressing
their truth. Or to censor them. All that is being asked is
the manner in which it is going to be done - if we want to
maintain a civil and cohesive society.

Foxy, I feel your suggestions might work in a domestic or private situation such as family or friends, in trying to instill 'your' particular views on those within your inner circle.
But remember, your way of thinking does not prepare the younger generation for what 'really' lays ahead.
The way forward for youth today is an unsavoury one, in so many ways.
You speak of teens committing suicide because of what someone said or wrote.
Your suggesting that the abuser should curb his/her ways, and therefore the teenager will not commit suicide, is very naive indeed, and dangerous.
You're supposed to be telling the children the 'truth' and instilling a notion of 'it's OK, they're just bad people' and reassure them that is the norm.
Not lie to them and tell them that these bad people should be more respectful.
Wrong life lesson.
By lying to them will not bolster their confidence and only lead them closer to suicide, instead of telling them the truth and empowering them.
In doing so it just might encourage them to fight back, in so doing give them a sense of being and a stronger resolve.
Quite the opposite to suicide.
The last thing you want to tell a vulnerable teen is that the abuser should be nice and stop abusing.
I'll bet even if you could respond to the abuser and told him to stop, using your best logic, he will come back and give you such a verballing, it will knock you three blocks to xmas.
Tell the truth, even though you both may not like it, it will be the truth, and therefore the only correct and just option!

By all means tell what you perceive as the "truth."
But don't harm, demeam, or insult people whilst
doing it. Nobody likes or supports an illogical
or abusive debater. Young people need good role
models. Not ones that teach them to fight and
behave badly. "They can't be, what they don't see."

Part of the problem is our schools where children are encouraged to report everything to the teacher to have it fixed up, then they enter the real world where things are tough and running to the boss or relevant authority is a recipe for disaster, both on the job and personally.
The ones who have learned to stand on their own two feet are the ones who get on.

Foxy, you can't contaminate my truth, because it is THE truth.
There is only ONE TRUTH!
What I 'perceive as the truth' IS the truth, or the telling of a truth.
No matter how you read my truth, it will still be the truth.
What you are suggesting, as an example, is, if you have to tell someone their child has died. (such is the job of a policeman)
How can you word it so as to not upset them?
Same goes for being handed a summons.
How does one do that without getting upset and offended?
Foxy there are too many situations in life that must be handled with courage, tact and determination.
As for your presumption that 'they can't be what they can't see'.
Does not relate to bullying or misogyny just because they CAN see it and are subjected to it.
It is inbred from birth, it's the way we are wired.
Your contention that society MUST stop bullying and picking on people, is in fact a fantasy.
As long as there are people, this is the way it is.
Trying to tell the 99% to do something is harder than telling the 1%.
Broaden your exposure to anywhere beyond your books and computer and you will see the real world and all it's pitfalls.
Your wanting this happy place you keep promoting, is a wonderful idea and I would be the first to commend you, if it happened.
Unfortunately human nature will not allow it.
So Foxy, don't attack those of us speaking the truth, because you find it offensive or distressing.
Instead, try to gloss over anything you find offensive or stressful.
That way you can move on in a happier demeanor and the 'offender' has caused you no reason for stress and angst.
By doing so it becomes a win win situation.
The truth must never be compromised or changed especially for emotional reasons, or we will end up lying to each other, or worse still, heaven forbid, we end up speaking, Politically Correct!

ALTRAV,

I wish you well in continuing to share your "truth" on
this forum.

Cheers.

Foxy, thank you, I am pleased to see I have occasioned a slight realisation and a positive result for the teens of the future.
Good for you, glad to have you considering my point of view.
Cheers.

The biggest act I have seen of bullying in a long time is Serena Williams dummy spit when caught (or atr least her coach) cheating and then calling the umpire a liar and thief. The vicitm industry have created a putried generation.

runner why not start a thread on that? Al Sharpton, forgive if I got it wrong, an American of Africa heritage he blasts out every time a crime is committed against one of his own, now one of my three greatest ever humans is Martin Luther King, in fact Ghandi is two,so is the great first African president of that country,first reserve?Obama
Hardly the profile of a hater or racist Sharpton is a slug, screams lie,s and never says he got it wrong* note this country has two male idiots who play that game* both have been fined and rightly so, Williams is an idiot her coach said he had broken the law

Williams is as common as muck; really cheap, irrespective of her gender.

It was poor sportsmanship - that's for sure.
And should be called out for what it was.
I feel so sorry for that young Japanese girl
who won. Her moment was taken away from her -
by her heroine who she admired very much.
Very bad show! Serena deserved a higher fine.