RACHY ol' friend...

I'm in no way undertaking a comparative analysis of the economic achievements or failings of our various governments. I'm referring to their ethicality, and their levels of probity. Moreover you might care to note I included our treacherous incumbent, PM Malcolm TURNBULL among them.

Personally I've not got a head for macro-economics, but I'd like to think I can usually tease out issues of integrity and rectitude among our political leaders. After all I spent in excess of 32 years attempting to establish the veracity of all manner of individuals, from those of the 'maggot' variety, to ordained members of the Church. Additionally, if you care to re-read my previous contribution more dispassionately, perhaps then, you may see the thrust of my argument? Thank you...o sung wu.

SR,

OK we get it. As per usual you screw up and then try to cover up.

You talk about "The annual [repeat: annual] war games between the US and South Korea" and then try to say I'm wrong say the next games are up to a year away. I guess you just hope that others won't check your previous claims.

You talk about " the 12,000 US troops stationed on the Korean peninsular" and then try to claim that you weren't talking about the troops stationed in Korea. I guess you just hope that others won't check your previous claims.

Its like the earlier thread where you thought the US had nukes on the peninsula and then tried to cover that error.

Here's a hint: instead of spending time trying to cover errors, spend some time trying to not make errors.

But the theme of your original post was that Kim had won these concessions from Trump, when indeed he's won no concessions. Trump talked about reducing troops AFTER the summit agreement was signed. It wasn't part of the negotiations and wasn't offered as something to induce concessions from Kim.

Contrary to what the TDS brigade 'think', Trump wants to reduce US overseas commitments. Getting some or most troops out of Korea when its safe to do so is part of his America First policy. So not a concession to Kim but a hope that his aims may be closer to fruition.

Equally, as Pompeo said, the US hasn't given up on the wargames . They've merely suspended them while they give Kim a chance to show his sincerity. They now hang like a Sword of Damocles over Kim's head should he decide to back-track on any of his assurances.

We all know that you and you ilk won't ever acknowledge any Trump success but the fact is his policies have forced Kim to negotiate while the US has given up nothing and that has bought the peninsula closer to true peace than its been for decades.

Dear loudmouth,

I suspect you are right but there is some hope that the main impetuous for NK driving for better nuclear and missile technology ie the aggression of the US and its continual raft of threatening war games might be muted by this president. The logic of being able to strike at a country which has shown no signs of dialing back its threatening posture is sound. Whatever other craziness we want to ascribe to Kim this was not an example of it.

Whatever Trump says to placate his base like mhaze doesn't really matter in the end. It is his actions that count. Many times on this forum I have expressed the opinion that the continued aggressive posturing caused by these war games and other harassing actions were counter productive. By giving Kim legitimacy and stature it means that securing the end to military exercise may well have a real impact and not be counted as a victory of one over the other.

In effect this is a freeze for a freeze. Freezing the provocation of the war games for freezing of any further missile or nuclear testing. I don't think this has ever been committed to by any previous president. The rest is pie in the sky right now.

However we shouldn't underestimate just how much this means to the Chinese. Not having extensive US military assets training on their doorstep is a huge win for them.

Dear mhaze.

Time to stop now. Attacking me for your own stuff ups is making you look silly. You were wrong about the next games and you were wrong about the troop numbers. Admit it and move on rather than trying to find some tortuous path to blame me for your mistakes.

How about on the next thread we try to park the insults and see how we go. While this has been fun it is hardly productive. Your call.

o sung wo if we leave our biases in the bucket at the door we just may be able to talk politics, you know I am from the right faction of my party, I doubt you understand as well as I do why that faction formed, once, way way back, the very left had its foot on the party's throat,it even had a few of Sir Robert Menzies reds under the bed, the right[biggest and controlling faction] fought and won, Rudd is and was a great man, will not bother digging up dirt/truth about your side, an election will be held soon, voters usually get it right, that tells me if they return us to power it is not because they are all mad

SR,

1. troop numbers. The ceiling for troops in SK is 28500. The numbers fluctuate based on rotation of troops and can also vary based on what's counted and not counted eg support staff, local support staff etc. But never, never has the number got to 12000. That you can't acknowledge that and had to come up with some cockamamie excuse (why not just blame a typo?) is revealing.

2. wargames. The last games ended recently. I said the next games are due up to a year form now. You said they are annual games which means the next games are due up to a year form now ie we are either both wrong or these other games that you've 'discovered' are minor level games. Either way, asserted that I'm wrong and you're right when we said the same thing is revealing.

3. Happy to park the insults. Since your the one doing the insulting I'll leave it to you.

Loudmouth,

"n return for Kim getting rid of his missiles and/or missile sites one by one, Trump could slowly relax economic sanctions."

Sorry but that fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the problem. One of the main reasons Kim was forced to treat was the crushing effect the enhanced sanctions had on NK. He was fine with the earlier low level sanctions that were routinely ignored by China and Russia and a few others. He was fine with his people suffering privation. But the enhanced sanctions and the enhanced enforcement has bought the problem home to his doorstep and to that of the military - and that he can't live with (literally).

But if the sanctions were slowly lifted then he'd finally get to a point where he could live with them. And then the pressure to get rid of whatever then remained of his nukes would be gone. So Trump had to make it clear that CIVD (complete, irreversible, verified destruction) of all weapons would be required. What you suggest is the exact same mistake that previous presidents have made with regards to NK.

Hi BELLY...

If all those in the federal Labour Party, had the same level of ethics and principals that you have my friend. They'd probably get my vote in perpetuity. Alas, that's not going to happen anytime soon, so it's a case of sit back quietly and watch. Should Mr SHORTIN be victorious in the next federal election, well I really have no idea what's going to happen to our once great Country. Whatever happens BELLY, I'll always respect and value our friendship, despite the best efforts of our political leaders.