I know nobody wants to address the political implications of the Mandela Effect, but we must.

I thought at first it was just about depopulation. Drive everyone crazy and see how many off themselves.

But now I've realised it's even worse.
What are the most contentious political agendas today that modify reality?
Multiculturalism/immigration and globalism. Both dramatically altering existing realties.

But wait, there's more: The end goal of all this is a deracialized, borderless utopia.
That changes the *future*.

But the discordant past will always be there, threatening to revive past identities and social realities.

So the past must be changed to match the future.

Use CERN/quantum computers/whatever tech to slightly edit more and more of history.
Eventually nobody will remember the original facts.

Children raised in a deracialized, borderless utopian world will see museums and history books with deracialised, borderless people. It was "always so".

The intention is supposedly benevolent, but it is ultimately evil.
A "better" world, but a false one. And nobody will know.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is "crazy".

They, it is them who we say never asked us, but just maybe there is a they,UN? who knows we in my life time have seen integration turn to its current, in my view inferior form, is that what they wanted? is this an experiment in one world? maybe, but in truth my concern is that PC supporters will not let us talk about population, surely if nothing else we must talk about containing even putting a cap on population world wide and here in our big dry land

//So the past must be changed to match the future.

Use CERN/quantum computers/whatever tech to slightly edit more and more of history.//

O....kay.

Dear Belly,

You wrote;

“but in truth my concern is that PC supporters will not let us talk about population”

Well I suppose you would lump me in with the PC crowd. And I concede having been away from the forum that you may not have kept up with the opinions of the various posters, but I have repeatedly said I would halve our migration rates tomorrow. We are throttling this country with such high rates while not keeping up with infrastructure. We are doing it to keep economic growth figures positive because they are so dependent on housing developments since manufacturing has declined through disinterested governments.

At the same time I would double our refugee intake. I think most Australians are pretty decent when it comes to supporting people from wartorn countries. However they see their jobs under threat from migrants with high level skill sets and conflate them with refugees. Time to clearly delineate the two.

There are people who feel strongly about halting
immigration. Who see immigrants as problematic.
We certainly need to have this debate.

I agree that we need to examine
the numbers we take in - to ensure
that we have the infrastructure to cope. However
halting immigration altogether - would be disastrous
for our economy (immigrants do work, buy goods and
services - make the economy go round - and pay taxes).
Our population is ageing. We need younger people who
work and can provide us with decent health services,
education, aged care facilities, and so on.
Our universities
rely on foreign students - the universities would
suffer if we were to cut out on the numbers.

Planning long-term and appropriate policies need to
be a focus on our future - and what's viable discussed.

Toni Lavis, why not do a little research before commenting.

The Mandela Effect has been experienced by thousands of people, regarding apparent changes to historical events, people, places, even anatomy and geography.

I don't think it coincidental that most live in the same Western countries experiencing "cultural enrichment".
We are the guinea pigs on all levels.

The ability of modern technology to manipulate space/time/matter combined with quantum computing power means altering history is now possible. That's the how, my post asserts the *why*.

The unification of the world into one raceless, borderless people economically and demographically may produce a utopia, but will always have the cloud of the past hanging over it.

A past of different identities, realities, hostilities.
So why not change the past?

The Mandela Effect is just test runs to see how the tech works and people's reactions.

If your dismissive mockery is typical of most people, the project will succeed.

Most people will just accept whatever changes (however ludicrous) to avoid stress and social estrangment.

Alternate Memories is an excellent summary of the Mandela Effect
https://www.alternatememories.com/

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."....1984

That's why our declining knowledge of our past is so dangerous and why there is such an effort to accelerate that decline.

The last three posts impress me, I agree with them all, BUT my point was, it is my view world population is already past its safe levels,yes maybe ours is too, like it or not the refugee flow world wide will grow massively, my answer is put the Malaysian solution in place,*it will stop the boats forever* take more selected refugees,but act on helping them have a worth while life at home AID is the first tool crime/fraud free aid,constant growth can not be a forever thing, let us start talking about that

//The Mandela Effect has been experienced by thousands of people, regarding apparent changes to historical events//

Yep, it's a well documented phenomenon. But it is not proof that the Reptilians are altering history, or of glitches in the Matrix, or witchcraft, of whatever other fantastical delusion you want to assert with no evidence.

It's just false memories: not as exciting, not as interesting. Common-place, dull and parsimonious, I'm afraid. But a good deal less far-fetched than the conspiracy theories, and we already have solid evidence of people's tendencies to develop false memories.

Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

//The ability of modern technology to manipulate space/time/matter combined with quantum computing power means altering history is now possible.//

No, it really isn't. I enjoy science fiction as much as the next nerd, but it's not the same thing as real life.

//So why not change the past?//

Because it's impossible, to the best of our knowledge.

//The Mandela Effect is just test runs to see how the tech works and people's reactions.//

Any evidence to back up your tin-foil hat nonsense, or were you hoping we'd all just take it on faith?

//If your dismissive mockery is typical of most people, the project will succeed.//

Ah yes, the cry of tin-foil hatters everywhere: 'if you won't buy into my delusions, then you're an evil wicked person who is aiding and abetting the Reptilians and eats puppies'.

I don't care if you think I'm worse than Hitler, mate. It still doesn't change the fact that you're talking out your arse.

//That's why our declining knowledge of our past is so dangerous and why there is such an effort to accelerate that decline.//

Oh Jesus, not you too, mhaze. Seemed like you had more sense than that :(

Right, that's enough internet for this afternoon. I'm going out in the fresh air where there aren't crazy people.

We can't change history, we can't change what's already happened but we could learn from history if only learning wasn't so difficult for those whose minds are so clogged with nonsencial issues that they simply fail in the sense department.
I recall when, as a teenager in the sixties back in the old country, I was ridiculed for saying that too many Gastarbeiter (guestworkers) from the Balkans & Turkey were exploited to do work that so many Central Europeans thought they were too educated for.
Now look at Europe. Is Australia learning from this history ? Nope! 457 Visa for wokers to do that too many Australians believe is beneath them to perform.
The 457 Visa holders are really the only ones learning & taking advantage from this history & this history also teaches them where the loopholes are.
So, Lefties may think they are smarter than the rest but who are the ones laughing behind their back ? Those who don't take history for granted & learn from it of course !

We can not change history and should not try to, the PC junk from a few, even on my side, ignores history is a tool to learn to get it better this time

Wow, Agent Lavis. You exceed my expectations (nil).
Reptilians, the Matrix, witchcraft, tin-foil hatters, eating puppies,
Hitler and pretentious Latin to boot.

You get a gold star for setting the pathetic cut-and-paste cliche record.

I recommend your promotion to Second Assistant Regional Agent Subdivision 6F.

Doing a quick Google search on Medala Effect brought up a few out there theories. Time travel, multiple realities, or just bad memories and social media.

So with that in mind, if the effect is a real thing, then the theory that this is a world government social power struggle is not that strange a theory (I guess compaired to other theories).

Here's a thought though. If the Medala effect is real, is there any reason to think it's linked to the politics of multiculturalism? And if so what does this change?

Personally I don't think it's worth putting much concern into. A strange phenomon that might, or might not be real. How are we suppose to live our lives? In any way that's important in our lives, from ethics, time with family and friends, and going to work, I don't see this Mandela effect having much influence or being any danger. If it's real.

//Reptilians, the Matrix, witchcraft, tin-foil hatters, eating puppies,
Hitler and pretentious Latin to boot.

You get a gold star for setting the pathetic cut-and-paste cliche record.//

Is that your entire rebuttal? I use too many clichés? Good one, mate.

//then the theory that this is a world government social power struggle is not that strange a theory//

It's not a theory at all, NNS: it's wild speculation with no supporting evidence.

//(I guess compaired to other theories).//

False memory theories aren't strange theories, NNS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory

//A strange phenomon that might, or might not be real.//

Oh, it's definitely real. I heard about it on a podcast I like a while ago, and they provided some examples. The classic example is the one it's named after: people incorrectly remembering Mandela's death in prison. I'd never heard of that one as a thing until then; I remembered Mandela being released from prison in the 1990's and dying well after 2000. But the second example they cited is one that gets me - and a lot of other people as well: we incorrectly remember the Monopoly man as wearing a monocle. He doesn't, he never has; but until I was told that he didn't, and checked for myself.... I could have sworn he did. There are some more good examples here. Have a go and see how many get you, it's fun.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/christopherhudspeth/crazy-examples-of-the-mandela-effect-that-will-make-you-ques?utm_term=.nlWa1gRqd#.nkdyR6aWP

So that's your Mandela effect right there. It's real enough, alright, and a mildly entertaining way to procrastinate.

But incorrectly remembered film trivia as evidence of the New World Order tampering with the past? Pull the other one, it plays Colonel Bogey.

To TL.

The theory that the Mandela effect is just false memories is the most rational one I've seen, except it doesn't fit when combined with the point of the Mandela effect is noted because of it being shared false memories. The only way to make that theory fit is if we enter cultural media into the picture and have social networking get details wrong at a large enough scale that people remember it the wrong way.

The problem is that even with this theory it's the most rationale but still doesn't fit the examples given in their observations of the effect. Mandela's death for instance can't be blamed for by the social media in Facebook or Instagram.

The theories that try to make it fit more go on to wild and strange theories along the lines of multipal realities converging or something just as strange. In that light having government manipulation be the cause, (something that has been attempted probabley many times by many governments), doesn't seem so far fetched. But it doesn't mean that there's a tie between Mandela effects and government cover ups of corruption or some such thing. Or between the political pushes for loose national boundaries or simular things to the Mandela Effect.

Either way though. I don't think there's a danger from the examples of false memory that are sited towards the Mandela effect. Nothing to point to a wide spread manipulation going on or something. But who knows. I'm willing to hear the argument to see if there's sufficient danger to show some concern.

An amusing shared false memory that I read about when studying the phenomenon of false memories as an undergraduate is the one involving the Woodstock festival. Millions of war babies and baby boomers remember being at the festival; far more than could have ever possibly attended. People who have never even been to the town can tell you in graphic what they did over those three days.

CERN must be opening links to alternate universes, because Lavis is from one.
A universe of honest and ethical governments that never conduct secret experiments and agendas.

Particles can be quantum entangled across time and space.
They become entangled through: physical interaction.
What is CERN doing?
Hundreds of thousands of particle collisions every second.
For years now.
And use quantum computers to analyse the results.

Nothing to worry about there.

Who is funding CERN? European governments.
Who is pushing globalisation and multicultural immigration, despite the obvious detrimental effects on their own citizens? European governments.

I'm sure those European governments expect no return on their billions invested in CERN.
No, it's just out of the goodness of their hearts. Purely scientific enquiry.
Aw, shucks. Makes me want to cuddle some kittens.

I don’t think that Shockadelic is interpreting the Mandela Effect as parallel universes - but those that write / review history select based on their persuasion. Also - most people other than academics have other priorities and may not remember details correctly. There are a few things here - if academics are not portraying facts correctly they are breaking a trust – the public that do not remember the facts correctly have as part of the mechanics of society / division of expertise – paid for the dutiful labour of the academics. If the academics fail to fullfil the obligations of their role maybe the public needs to review it.

Use quantum computers- Eventually nobody will remember the original facts.

Yes computers can determine motivation / manipulate it – see Cambridge Analytics – ironically appearing to be coming from the right wing rather than the left that appears to be more influencial in the current era.

Children raised in a deracialized, borderless utopian world will see museums and history books with deracialised, borderless people. It was "always so".

I felt the 1984 quote had resonance. The zoologist author Desmond Morris – The Human Zoo said that de-racialising the world was a desirable goal. However his way to achieve this seemed to be fairly sparse on detail. At other points he says that packing animals densely tends to cause conflict and other atypical behavior. I suspect that this becomes more pronounced when “two different” human groups are densely populated. Confucius - understanding of family relationships are critical for an understanding governing. Many societies also have extended families, a village can be a cooperation of a few large families and what could be called a retinue of smaller less powerful families. In these types of society care of the old and young are internalized and the families are self sufficient. The question is why would someone want to promote a society that destroys the family. Ted Kaczynski – Believed the industrial-technological system enslaves society - “the Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race”.

*The intention is supposedly benevolent, … ultimately evil.
A "better" world, but a false one. And nobody will know.

That’s the point about democracy – the reason for a distribution of power is because no one has all the answers no matter how many PhD’s or how many boards we sit on – A great person once said “save us from the benevolent do gooders” and “there are do gooders and those that do good”. The importance of free speech is too subtle for many. You don’t have to listen forever, you don’t have to agree with them, you don’t have to do what they say – but once in a while you need to listen to things outside of your comfort zone… Once in a while we make mistakes, at these times its important to check the mirror, review our actions – it can be a painful process, not everyone is strong enough. Human societies / animal behavior has developed over millions of years – some humans think they know better than time and nature – they think they can have their name written in the history books – sometimes (rarely) they can. History is littered with painful remains of foolishness. You cannot break the rules of the universe – you can only break yourself against them. That is why its important to follow principles of science and democracy not scientism.
Usually when someone of the hard sciences says that something is probably true you can count on it – but when someone from soft sciences or even social “pseudo” sciences says that something is true you need to check their facts. David Émile Durkheim 1817d is apparently the academic that formally established the academic discipline of Social Science. “Kant’s Four Fold Root Of Reason” talks about how disciplines span from Philosophy to Mathematics and Hard Science to Biology to Psychology and Anthropology – from the simple to the complex essentially. If we want stability we should be very careful about changing complex systems as the results are unpredictable.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is "crazy".

Fools rush in…

I liked the Occam's razor - latin quote by Toni Lavis.
And also the quote about destroying history from the book 1984 by Shockadelic.

Toni,

"Oh Jesus, not you too, mhaze. Seemed like you had more sense than that"

Break it up, Toni. There was nowt in my post that suggested support for the lunacy of the time travelling alien brigade. I've just learned over the years that there are some occasions when its best to just figuratively cross the road to avoid the crazy man shouting at shadows.

Failure to disavow a moronic notion isn't the same as supporting it.

Now I know how Taylor Swift feels. She was lambasted for avoiding the whole #metoo moronosity, being accused of supporting misogyny by not piling on.

Actually, I don't know how Taylor Swift feels....but I'd like to ;)

mhaze, no aliens or even parallel universes required.

Everything I said is feasible based on quantum physics and human technology.

CERN is colliding particles in *this* universe with *our* tech.
Quantum entanglement of those particles across time and space therefore results.

The only question would be pinpointing where in the "past" any exact particle was "present" and how to alter its effects.
And that's where 600,000 experiments per second and quantum computers come in handy.

Even if this were technically impossible in *today's* world, this tech will only develop in the future.
And it may well be future technicians doing this.

So the potential for this historical editing agenda is feasible, if not "now" then in the near future.
It therefore must still be addressed and cannot be ignored.

QBits are interesting. But I'm unconvinced by many worlds theory.

//Particles can be quantum entangled across time and space.//

Yes, they can. But the 'spooky action at a distance' observed with entangled systems does not permit retro-causality. The notion that it does is almost surely based on a misunderstanding of the results of delayed choice quantum eraser experiments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_choice_quantum_eraser
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/343121/delayed-choice-quantum-eraser-without-retrocausality

Experiments involving these sort of entanglement effects do not allow experimenters to alter the past, or to send information into the past. Quantum indeterminacy ensures that any attempt to encode a message to be sent backwards in time degenerates into white noise. The future cannot affect the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

Indeed, Phillippe Eberhard has produced a proof that within the framework of quantum field theory, retro-causality is theoretically impossible. So far, no experiment that I am aware of has managed to prove him wrong.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00696109

//Everything I said is feasible based on quantum physics and human technology.//

No, it really isn't.

//CERN is colliding particles in *this* universe with *our* tech.
Quantum entanglement of those particles across time and space therefore results.//

No, that's not how you create entanglement, at least not for experimental purposes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2017/02/28/how-do-you-create-quantum-entanglement/#b383fea1732b

As the article points out, it's highly likely that the entanglement in those delayed choice quantum eraser experiments whose results you've so badly misunderstood was produced by parametric downconversion. Nothing to do with particle colliders.

//And use quantum computers to analyse the results.//

No, they use regular computers for that. Not that it would matter; data analysis is data analysis and using a quantum computer to analyse data will not magically transform it into a TARDIS.

//Who is pushing globalisation and multicultural immigration, despite the obvious detrimental effects on their own citizens? European governments.//

So because you disagree with European governments on certain political matters, it logically follows that they're not subject to the laws of physics? Well that's a convincing scientific argument if ever I saw one. [sarcasm]

//I'm sure those European governments expect no return on their billions invested in CERN.
No, it's just out of the goodness of their hearts. Purely scientific enquiry.//

Umm, you do realise that scientific enquiry leads to returns, don't you? Have you not paid attention to the last 150-odd years of history?

//Even if this were technically impossible in *today's* world, this tech will only develop in the future.
And it may well be future technicians doing this.//

Of course... even though we can't do retro-causality yet, surely they'll figure out how to in the future, and it's those guys we should be worried about. How convenient.

Luckily for you, time travel to the future is possible and not even that difficult. So we can send you forward to stop the evil future people meddling with our past and present. All you have to do is fly off in a nice fast spaceship for a while, then turn around and come home. Time dilation will take care of the rest: you'll return to a future Earth, just in time to beat the baddies and save us here in 2018. The downside is that you won't be able to return to your own time.

Sounds like a winning plan to me.

//Break it up, Toni. There was nowt in my post that suggested support for the lunacy of the time travelling alien brigade.//

Sorry, my bad. My BS detector can be over-sensitive at times, but on a second reading it's obvious that you weren't claiming any malfeasance by the Time Lords of CERN.

//I've just learned over the years that there are some occasions when its best to just figuratively cross the road to avoid the crazy man shouting at shadows.//

Good grief man, where's the fun in that? It's the internet, so it's not like the crazy man can stab you if you enrage him. And winding them up is immensely enjoyable.

//But I'm unconvinced by many worlds theory.//

There is nothing wrong with the the many worlds interpretation of QM; it's mathematically equivalent with competing interpretations and makes the same predictions. When trying to choose between interpretations, it mostly comes down to a matter of what feels right (and what simplifies the equations, of course). I like the de Broglie-Bohm interpretation, but it's never really caught on.

Agent Lavis, strange how you never mentioned your plethora of knowledge before. Had to do a little research, eh?

"we can't do retro-causality yet"

Yet.

Um, did I not refer to *future* technicians?
They may have new theorems and technology you can't imagine, and are making slight edits to history to hint to us (past generations) and see our reaction.

When they get scoffing, shrugging and denial, they will take that as a green light to proceed.

//Um, did I not refer to *future* technicians?
They may have new theorems and technology you can't imagine, and are making slight edits to history to hint to us (past generations) and see our reaction.

When they get scoffing, shrugging and denial, they will take that as a green light to proceed.//

XD

Best. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.

Thanks, Shockadelic, your overly-fertile imagination has made my day. My mates are going to sh!t bricks laughing when they hear about your nefarious time agents from the year 6969 messing with the past. Ahh, the joys of the internet.

But nothing to say about being sent to the future to thwart their dastardly plans? I'm surprised. I'd have thought you'd leap at the chance to volunteer to save us all. What's wrong, no courage in your convictions?

I never mentioned time travel and it has nothing to do with this scenario. So no, nothing to say about it.

If I was naive enough to think your statements had an inkling of sincerity, I would accuse you of the same confirmation bias you accuse the tin foil hatters of.

When confronted by a skeptic or dissident, questioning any official dogma, you search the internet for anything that validates your opinion. Lump as much in as you can to seem intelligent and hope that works.

But I'm not that naive.
I know it's just your job.

Say hello to your "mates" (i.e. the other agents in your department, who spend all day attacking thought criminals).

" It's the internet, so it's not like the crazy man can stab you if you enrage him. "

That's true for now. But what about the future....or the past or something.

For all I know I will have had been stabbed in the past and won't know about until the future or may have had been stabbed in the future and didn't know about until the past. Its a frightening thought.

To continue the fun....

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/man-who-claims-hes-time-12640629

//I never mentioned time travel and it has nothing to do with this scenario.//

Oh right, the Time Lords of CERN are altering the past without the use of time travel. Because they're wizards or something.

Anyway, my last point about time travel wasn't about THEM coming back; it was about YOU going forward so that you can prevent them doing whatever it is you imagine they'll be doing before they get the chance to do it, thus preventing them from ever meddling in the past (by whatever methods) in the first place - thereby preventing the problem from ever arising, and eliminating the necessity for you go to forwards. Which of course means that they're not prevented from meddling in the past (by whatever methods) in the first place. So you'll have to go forward to to sort it out; thereby preventing the problem from ever arising, and eliminating the necessity for you go to forwards. Which of course means that they're not prevented from meddling in the past (by whatever methods) in the first place. So you'll have to go forward to to sort it out...

... f#%k, sorry, got stuck in a time loop there. There's a trick to getting out of them; it's turtles all the way down so you just hitch a ride one of their backs. Shouldn't work but it does, infinite regresses are always a funny thing. Odder still, if you try to hitch a ride on one of Zeno's turtles, the magic doesn't work and you get shot with an arrow.

//When confronted by a skeptic or dissident, questioning any official dogma//

You haven't questioned any official dogma, mate. Even if we were to agree that quantum mechanics is dogmatic... at what point have you questioned it? You hid behind your misunderstanding of it for a while, and hoped that people would just take it on faith that you knew what you were talking about. And now that you've cottoned onto the fact that we're not all ignorant on the subject, you've decided to recast yourself as some sort of maverick who questions the 'official' version of QM.

Except to do that, you actually have to propose an alternate hypothesis. The difference between a crank a dissident is that a dissident has an alternate hypothesis which he is happy - nay, eager - to have roundly criticised. A rebel without a hypothesis is just a crank, I'm afraid.

//But I'm not that naive.
I know it's just your job.

Say hello to your "mates" (i.e. the other agents in your department, who spend all day attacking thought criminals).//

Actually, that bit is true. You've rumbled me, I'm afraid. There really is a Government department who spend actual tax-payers money to employ a bunch of grumpy old nerds to go around 'extraordinarily renditioning' cranks, con-men, conspiracy theorists, shysters, charlatans and snake-oil salesmen for 're-education'. And we've had you under our eye for some time, my lad. Mind how you go...

No seriously, there really is a Government department like that. It's not just a pleasant fantasy that I imagine to make the world seem slightly brighter. Would I lie to you?

Blah blah blah blah blah

Enjoy the karma of all traitors.

Got this in an email today.

For those who don't know about Australian history, here is a condensed version:

HISTORY OF AUSTRALIA

Australians originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters and gatherers.
They lived on kangaroos on the plains during the summer and would then go to the coast and live on fish and mussels in the winter.

The two most important events in all Aussie history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer.

These were the foundation of modern Aussie civilisation and together were the catalyst for the splitting of Australians into two distinct sub-groups:

1. Liberals, and
2. Labor.

Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture.

Neither the glass bottle nor aluminium can were invented so while our early Aussies were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night, while they were drinking beer.

This was the beginning of what is known as the Liberal movement

Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting, learned to live off the Liberals by showing up for the nightly BBQ's and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing.
This was the beginning of the Labor movement
Some of these labor men eventually evolved into women. They became known as pooftas.

Some noteworthy Labor achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that the Liberals provided.

Modern Laborites and Union leaders drink imported beer and they like their beef well done.
Sushi, tofu and French food are standard Labor fare.

Another interesting, evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men.
tbc.

Most social workers, government workers - state and federal, personal injury lawyers, journalists (especially at The Age), ABC staff, and group therapists are Laborites.

Liberals drink domestic beer, mostly Carlton or XXXX.
They eat red meat (rare), and still provide for their women.
Liberals are police officers, engineers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots, business owners, farmers, Doctors and Nurses and generally anyone who works productively.

Liberals who own companies, hire other Liberals who want to work for a living.

Laborites produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. The laborites created the business of trying to get more for nothing - and usually plead for government money to fund their unproductive, parasitical activities.

Here ends today's lesson in Australian history.

It should be noted that a Laborite may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above before forwarding it. A Liberal will simply laugh, and be so convinced of the absolute truth of history, that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more Laborites - just to piss them off.

And there you have it.

//Enjoy the karma of all traitors.//

Treason? That's a very serious crime, Shockadelic, up there alongside piracy (proper piracy with wooden legs and parrots and pieces of eight, not just breaching copyright) and arson in the royal dockyards. If you have solid evidence that I am guilty of treason you should report it immediately to the constabulary, lest you yourself get done for being an accessory.

Although frankly I think it's a bit rich for a such a lily-livered, yellow-bellied coward like yourself to be having a go at me for treason. If you're too much of a pussy to be willing to actually do anything to stop the evil future people's evil plan to make us all believe the Monopoly man wears a monocle, you're in no position to be criticising anybody.

http://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67419127/whats-the-matter-mcfly-chicken.jpg

Lavis, continuing to insist that I personally time travel, when I have no means to do so, shows who of us is the more ridiculous.

And as I said before, this has nothing to do with time travel.

I am doing *what I can* by discussing the issue publicly.

Even if this is not possible now, and has not yet been attempted in the future, the technology will *inevitably* appear at some point, so the issue still must be discussed.
By mature adults, not prissy vampires.

The ideological fanatics currently radically transforming the present would not hesitate to edit the past too, if that became a possibility.

As I said before, the Mandela effect (e.g. Monopoly monocle) may be test runs of such technology and people's reactions.
They are trivial edits at first, precisely to avoid mass panic.

You are not a traitor to the government (They employ you and are traitors themselves).

You are a traitor to your people.

I said there would be karmic consequences, not legal ones.

My understanding of the hypothesis of Shockadelic - Quantum Computers can be used to modify the Quantum memory of spacetime - this changes history. No need for anyone to time travel - Toni Lavis - please put down the "time gun" . We don't want anyone to get hurt. ;)

Sorry if I missed something...

//Even if this is not possible now, and has not yet been attempted in the future, the technology will *inevitably* appear at some point, so the issue still must be discussed.
By mature adults, not prissy vampires.//

No, mature adults have important things to discuss like spiralling energy prices and stagnant wage growth and well, any number of things before they worry about unfalsifiable speculation about the possibility of people (not necessarily human people, obviously) at some point, in the future, developing the technology to alter the past.

That sort of navel-gazing is the sort of thing best discussed in metaphysics tutorials/over a nice fat spliff with your mates/on online forums with weirdos who are strangely earnest about what at the end of the day is just a load of old toot. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to talking a bit of toot now and then. But there's no need to get worked up about it when people take the piss out of your silly stories.

This is what I don't get about conspiracy theorists... they come up with all this fanciful nonsense, and then when it gets debunked they act like you've just insulted their wife, slapped their child and kicked their puppy; and throw a massive tantrum. Why are they so attached to their half-baked theories that they take it so personally? And what do they expect? That we'll all just accept complete crap if they whine at us enough?

And BTW, retro-causality is not inevitable, no matter how many *'s you dress it up in. The no-communication theorem also prevents you having certain knowledge of the future - unless you travel there, of course. We have no idea if technology like this will ever be developed, but at the moment the safe bet is 'probably not'. Some things just ain't possible, and I suspect retro-causality falls into the same basket as perpetual motion machines.

I'm not sure where vampires come into it

//As I said before, the Mandela effect (e.g. Monopoly monocle) may be test runs of such technology and people's reactions.//

Or it may not.

In the absence of any hard proof, I guess it's just a case of deciding what seems more plausible: ideological fanatics from the future performing test runs of their time-warping technology which make us believe that Monopoly man wears a monocle... or people with their fallible memories just forming a false memory of a top-hatted, tuxedoed caricature wearing a monocle.

//You are not a traitor to the government//

Technically no, but as they're a Liberal Government and I'm a Labor man through-and-through, I'm probably somewhat seditious. But probably not even seditious enough to give Potato-Head Dutton half a chubby, so I reckon I'm probably not on any serious watch lists or anything.

//(They employ you and are traitors themselves).//

No, they don't. Are you that thick that you didn't comprehend that the bit about the government employing nerds to argue with idiots on the internet was a piss-take?

Do you really imagine the Governement would waste good money employing people to wind up crackpots over the internet? Since when did the Government care if all their citizens are fully conversant in the finer details of quantum theory? That's not a practical use of their funds; and if it was, employing crank-busters to try and talk sense to brick walls like you wouldn't be the most economical way to achieve that outcome. That's even more mental than your quaint notions about quantum theory.

TLDR: nobody is paying me to do this, Shockadelic. I do this mostly because I enjoy winding people like you up, then reading your hilarious responses.

//You are a traitor to your people.//

No, I'd be a traitor to my people if I didn't correct your woeful misunderstanding of quantum theory. I march under the banner of House Ravenclaw, and you'd be wise to remember the words of my House:

Knowledge is Power!

//Quantum Computers can be used to modify the Quantum memory of spacetime//

And would you like to explain for the rest of us, in your own words, what you think that sentence means?

Because frankly, I'm at a bit of a loss. It sounds like the work of an inept Star Trek script writer (no disrespect to the Trek, I'm a Trekker myself, but their techno-babble is awful to the point of being a running joke amongst us Trekkers). You've just thrown a bunch of fancy-sounding physics jargon around... but you've left out the masterstroke of a good Star Trek script writer, the clarifying simile. Here, like this:

Chief Engineer: Quantum Computers can be used to modify the Quantum memory of spacetime.
Red Shirt: You mean like pulling a single thread out of a loom and altering the whole piece of fabric?
Chief Engineer: Precisely, Ensign Malum.

//this changes history.//

And do you have any more evidence of this than Shockadelic?

"That we'll all just accept complete crap if they whine at us enough?"

That strategy seems to be working for utopian progressives.

There was a movie many years ago that reflected the agenda of the Left just so accurately, the movie was called "The Island".

Toni Lavis - I'm not saying that Shockadelic is correct - I'd need to investigate - I was just paraphrasing / clarifying his comments. Anyway didn't you say to Shockadelic that you understood QM - so why the Star Trek :P

If I'd explained QM you'd have made the "condescending" accusation. Sounds like the assassin in Firefly when he meets Malcolm Reynolds. I hope you've put the "time gun" away. ;

Toni lavis,
Wouldn't it be good if the Government appointed a full-time reader of OLO just to report back to them what our feelings are ?
Just imagine if they took notice of the good ideas floating around on OLO.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/are-they-really-playing-for-germany/news-story/4d99e96f549693f385c644f24137243e

Very interesting !