I watched "Q&A" last night (4/23/2018) on the ABC
and was quite surprised to learn the various opinions
that people had regarding our supposedly "egalitarian"
society.

Are we a classless society?

If not, how many classes do we have, and to what class do
you feel that you belong?

Your thoughts please.

I listened to a series of broadcasts on Radio National. It seems that we have 5 classes. The podcasts are still available. Interesting listening.

Thanks ttbn,

I wasn't aware of these breakdowns until I watched
the program on the ABC. I'm not sure what class I
would qualify to belong to. I'm not retired yet,
but I only work part-time. I'm certainly not rich.

Maybe I need to take the survey that ANU apparently
has.

Not sure.

Foxy,

If you want to listen to the programme on RN, enter 'Class Act' in the podcast area. It's not just about what you do for a living. I've been retired for 18 years, so I'm probably classless. Untouchable? I don't care.I always thought that I was probably lower middle class. Did you know that India outlawed their caste system in 1950. Next time you see an Indian person with a daub of paint, you will know it doesn't really mean a thing.

Dear ttbn,

Thanks for that.

I don't quite get this "class" business at all.

So I'll have to delve more into it. One of my other
brothers has recently retired and they've bought a
caravan and are now part of the "grey nomads," travelling
around the country for a bit. They're loving it.
Not sure which class they'd belong to though.

ttbn,

The daub of paint is a tilak, a mark worn by a Hindu on the forehead to indicate caste, status, or sect, or as an ornament; and it has meaning for millions of indians.
It is also worn by many non-Hindus to indicate married status, so don't treat it lightly.

In India Dowry and Caste are both are thriving and don't look to disappear in the near or very far future.
Have a look at Indian marriage ads, youll see that Caste gets a mention in most of them.
Here's a small selection:
http://www.scoopwhoop.com/news/wtf-matrimony/#.wwu2t0wma

When I'm in India I get classified automatically, I'm considered Kshatrya, which is the highest of the four basic caste groups, it is the ruling or military caste.

Asfor Caste being outlawed,
"New developments took place after India achieved independence, when the policy of caste-based reservation of jobs was formalised with lists of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. Since 1950, the country has enacted many laws and social initiatives to protect and improve the socioeconomic conditions of its lower caste population. These caste classifications for college admission quotas, job reservations and other affirmative action initiatives, according to the Supreme Court of India, are based on heredity and are not changeable. Discrimination against lower castes is illegal in India under Article 15 of its constitution, and India tracks violence against Dalits nationwide."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

Foxy,

Back home I'm in the Aged Class,
the class for caravan towers is "Road Obstructors" !

Dear Is Mise,

Thank You for explaining about the Indian mark on the
forehead. I remember going to a costume party where I
wore an Indian sari and I added an exotic mark on my
forehead that came with the costume. Well, I got so
many stares that night. Now I'm beginning to understand
why. I'm still not sure what that mark on my forehead stood
for. It just looked exotic. Or so I thought.

I don't believe that you belong to the "aged class."
You? Never! You're far too active.
I loved your definition of "grey nomad" caravan towers.
I'll have to tell my brother.

Here's an interesting link on classes in Australia:

http://www.quora.com/How-do-you-know-if-someone-is-upper-class-in-Australia

It looks like this discussion is not going anywhere.
Thanks for those who did contribute.

http://www.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/the-class-divide-in-australia-what-it-means-to-be-rich-or-poor/news-story/a802ecd71716ef145a0bdcbd800b2f5f

ooops sorry for my typo:

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/the-class-divide-in-australia-what-it-means-to-be-rich-or-poor/news-story/a802ecd71716ef145a0bdcbd800b2f5f

Dear Is Mise,

«When I'm in India I get classified automatically, I'm considered Kshatrya, which is the highest of the four basic caste groups, it is the ruling or military caste.»

Kshatriyas are indeed the ruling and military caste, but it is only the second-highest - the highest class are Brahamins, which are the learned and spiritual leaders, but not worldly leaders: Brahamins have no interest in ruling and politics. Kshatriya rulers respect the Brahamins and wash their feet and in return they receive their blessings and advice, if asked.

Classes are a natural phenomena, thus no artificial efforts can eradicate classes. It is never shameful to belong to a lower class, nor a valid pretext for pride to belong to a higher class - we all start at the bottom and work our way up in subsequent births, we all were there at the bottom and we all shall eventually reach the top, then transcend it altogether.

India's bitter error was to assume that people are necessarily born into their parents' class and must remain there.
Although there is a significant correlation between one's class and one's parents' class, this relation is by no means absolute and over several generations it fades completely.

Yuyutsu,

Thanks for the correction, I don't know why I forgot the Brahmins as a number of my Indian friends, both here and in India are of that exaulted class.
I hope none of them read this!!

I think that the Indian Government chose heridity as the distinguishing factor as it limits the number of applicants for special consideration.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for giving us more information about the class
system in India.

I imagine that's something very few of us know anything
about.

I was just wondering though - what happens to that
system when people emigrate to other countries.
Do they import the old traditions with them?
For example Indians living in Australia - do they
adhere to the old ways?

I believe those that hold to reincarnation would believe they rise in social class.

I believe there is a developing class culture based on social culture. At the bottom would be the drug and dole culture. A dependency culture contribute nothing and expect others to supply. Next is an aboriginal dreaming culture of dependency supplied by the Government with a view of white people invaded our land and they owe their wealth to us. Then there is the working class who live to work and try to raise their standard of living it is a beer and sport view of life. [to be continued].

Dear Josephus,

I'm not sure that that these don't overlap.

To me it appears that things are not all that
clear cut.

Look at the communities that people mix and socialize in. There are the different religious classes some confined to their own community or language and a middle class who are conservative.There is a middle class that are educated and affluent, At the top of the social structure is the wealthy who only mix in an upper wealthy circle. I believe multiculturalism is breeding cultural social classes, especially a lower class fostered by Local Councils the ABC and SBS. We ate no longer a united culture, and this in the future will lead to civil conflict.

Dear Josephus,

Thanks for your contribution.

I'm not sure about conflict though. Things do change
over time. It's inevitable.
The old ways of doing things often don't
apply to younger generations. They are more accepting
in most cases.

We've lived in this country for a
lifetime and with all the migration and cultural
diversity and different languages and customs we have
not really seen or experienced the problems you are
predicting. Without the rich contribution of the
immigrants over the past hundred years at least, this
country would be much poorer all round. New migration
not only contributes to the development of culture in
this country but eventually it integrates and becomes
a part of the mainstream of society. Look back in history
anywhere on the planet - the only constant appears to be
change.

The class system of hereditary privilege and wealth has largely disappeared. The new fabricated class system that the left harangues against is extremely fluid with roughly 1/4 of those in the wealthy category coming from the working or middle classes and many of the children from wealthy families losing it all.

That Mr Harbourside mansion comes from a modest family and went to a public school is slated for his privilege by the leader of the working classes (BS) that came from a wealthy family, went to an expensive private school and married into the elite is an irony that escapes most.

That Lee (hammer and sickle) Rhiannon has through her struggle against inequality established a sizeable nest egg incl several negatively geared properties at the expense of the taxpayer is not widely advertised.

Today the class system is simply a tool for the left whingers to get votes by promising the have-nots that they can help themselves to the earnings of the haves.

naked we come into the world and naked we go out. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

I've always felt that in this country class really
did not matter all that much. That life was what
you made of it. Perhaps I could be wrong of course.
However we have so many exceptions to the rule, so
to speak, that it really doesn't matter where you
came from, it's what you do that does matter. In
my opinion.

If one wants to see class in Australia then one only has to visit Lakemba or Bankstown or Auburn where the Muslim class hold sway.

There are only two classes in those suburbs, the Islamic Class and the Inferior Class.

You can't always judge suburbs accurately.

They do change with time.

I remember how my parents used to talk about -
King's Cross, Paddington, Redfern, Newtown,
Surrey Hills, Glebe. I wonder what these places
are like today?

cont'd ...

I forgot to add - Woollomooloo, Chippendale,
and even Parramatta. Good old Wentworthvill
now has homes for sale over the $2 million
dollar mark. Times do change. And hopefully
with more employment in the poorer areas -
they will also change for the better.

Dear Foxy,

«Do they import the old traditions with them?
For example Indians living in Australia - do they
adhere to the old ways?»

It is quite rare among Indian Australians to still think of caste as hereditary: if someone here leads a wholesome life and thoroughly knows Sanskrit and the vedic rituals, then he would be accepted as a priest even if not born to a brahamin family, in fact even if born to a Western family.

---

Dear Josephus,

«I believe those that hold to reincarnation would believe they rise in social class.»

Naturally, as one rises in their ability to take responsibility, this is reflected in their social class.

The lowest class, the least responsible, are those who lead an unethical life - it doesn't matter how much money, education or influence they have, one should avoid contact with them, just as mentioned in Psalm 1:1.

Among the ethical classes, the lowest are shudras: a shudra can be defined as a worker who needs constant supervision: "pick this, put it there" (or in modern terms, "click the mouse on this, now drag it there"). Their salary would accordingly be low.

Next come Vaishias: a Vaishia is a merchant, a farmer or a tradesperson who is able to complete a day's work on their own. Therefore they earn more.

Next comes Kshatriyas: a kshatriya is a leader/warrior: they are less interested in money and more in honour, reputation, name and fame - thus they have more of that.

Finally come the Brahamins: a brahamin is not interested in wealth, name or fame, but in knowledge, hence is respected by the other ethical classes.

how to define a class, are we all people?

Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for explaining.

It is appreciated.

It looks like this discussion has now run its course.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Yuyutsu,

If reincarnation exists we can't all be reincarnations as there are more people alive than of yore, so where do the numbers come from and how does one tell if one is in a first existence?

Dear Is Mise,

I suspect there are realms out there that we can't even
begin to imagine.

Dear Is Mise,

A human birth is very rare: as Foxy said, there are many other realms of existence, some "higher" (more power and pleasure) and others "lower" (more helplessness and suffering), but being born as a human, with the right balance between power and helplessness, pleasure and suffering, is nearest to the "Exit" sign and practically the only state where one can escape the cycle of birth and death and reunite with God. If one is now a human, one must have worked hard for perhaps trillions of incarnations to deserve it, so I don't think that any human here can be "first existence".