I had a strange encounter with an overzealous seller of the Green Left weekly the other day and this has been haunting me since.

This undergraduate type chased me all the way to the Newtown train calling out “join the revolution you scum”…bla bla bla

Does Howard need another Terrorist threat to get back into office?

Think about it: APEC. Some oppose this meeting: exploitation of workers in other countries in turn undermines our own minimum wages. Maybe a valid point.

It is, never-the-less, a meeting with soci-economic merit.

The problem is, would this Government benefit from APEC 2007 being sabotaged, if it is an orchestrating the spectacle to fail?

This would keep the conservatives in for much longer.

In experiment, they have already stirred people up in Sydney in every Event. The QEII+QMII: traffic disaster, Chaney: a mess, even the SS Kitty Hawke last week, chaos. Right on time, a train breaks down on the bridge AGAIN!

They'll be scrambling mobile phones in Sydney, causing traffic jams, and the gem, the train break down on the Harbour Bridge, you know it will, just to make you angry.

They did it twice already for practice.

What would be the worst possible thing to happen to the left wing and the progressives at the moment? Think about it. So many angry people, a fuse ready to be lit.

Every time I get junk mail from the Greens telling me to go to some APEC demonstration, or who will be the anti-APEC meeting speaker, something by instinct tells me something is wrong with this strategy.

What positive outcome could come from an anti-APEC demonstration? Can anyone tell me?

If anything went wrong, who would get the blame? Islam terrorist, yes of course.

By connotation, who else would get the blame? You know that the demonstrators, especially the Greens, the left of the ALP, those sellers of the Green Left weekly will be demonised to the hilt before the next election, just so that Howard can say "I told you so".

Don't fall in the trap. It’s not worth it. Am I wrong?

The dithering,incompetent Morris Iemma and his Keystone Cops may well just grant someone's wishes.I hope no one gets hurt.

We can reasonably expect to see three things:

-Protestors and police brawling in the streets
-Angry Sydney residents brought to a standstill by something they're probably not even interested in
-Howard batting his lovestruck little eyes at Bush the Child King.

Tabloid news will have a field day with the first, but the other two will go against Howard. He's lost NSW anyway, but there's only a handful of Australians left who seriously believe the Howard/Bush love-in is good for Australia.

Let's just say there was a terrorist attack. It's common knowledge now that we're at greater risk because of our involvement in Iraq, so part of the blame would be sheeted home to Howard anyway.

I can't think of anything about APEC that could improve Howard's election chances.

Saintfletcher

It would not surprise me if it was someone from these posts who wanted to push their Howard hating doctrine upon you.

I can Chainsmoker - a positive economic outcome for Australia or some genuine Australian assistance for some of the Pacific region. We were a terrorist target long before Iraq . All we had to be was a Western nation to be a terrorist target - the sort of Western nation which espouses democracy and has welcomed Muslims into their midst. And don't please don't give us the nonsense about being "less" of a terrorist target or "more" we are or are not a terrorist target and, as we are, being or or out of Iraq or anywhere else is not going to make any difference...indeed it will just bring the problem closer to home as they can reallocate their resources. This is about power and these terrorists do not intend to give up and go away just because we trot off meekly like good little girls and boys. It is dishonest to suggest that going into Iraq was the sole cause of us being a terrorist target or that pulling out will solve our problems with terrorists.

oh boy, "they" are powerful aren't "they"?

More powerful than a locomotive, apparently.

Any proof Saint?

I'm for Mick Young's "stuff up" over a conspiracy. You gotta love Morris the Unworthy.

Nevertheless, I tend to agree with you that nothing less than something momentous can save Howard and the Libs. now; and that 'in your face' confrontation at APEC benefits no-one.

I have no proof at all I'm sorry to say. The only thing I have is a set of coincidences and an instinctual suspicion that something is not right. I don't want to sound paranoid, and I don't wish to spread any panic expressions.

I am, however, a strategist and if this was a chess game, the pieces are moving in perfect timing.

It is probably stupidity more than conspiracy, but if something stupid happens, wouldn't the outcome be the same?

It is no secret the Morris Eimma does not want this conference in Sydney.

If you think I'm paranoid, how do you think the people running the country feel at the moment?

And yes, the trains are a mess.

I think the bottom line is to stay away.

A BBQ in the Blue Mountains sounds better than fear in the city for any Aussie.

Communicate

One sensible voice. Thank you. Of course we have always been a target because we are the west. We have managed to break up many of their groups and plans yet they still complain.
of course its better to fight them over there than here.
If you have cancer you seek something to fight the disease early rather than allow it to spread.
Same thing with terrorism and if they are too stupid to see that then dont bother yourself trying to explain it.
Remember we all did nothing about Hitler.
You would have thought they may have learned from that.

"a positive economic outcome for Australia or some genuine Australian assistance for some of the Pacific region."

That would only help Howard if it miraculously translated into cheaper milk, bread, housing, petrol and the withdrawal of Workchoices before the election, and even then people would say it was just a stunt.

"and has welcomed Muslims into their midst."

You may be right, in which case you should be cross at Howard for introducing the highest immigration rate the country has ever seen.

"And don't please don't give us the nonsense about being "less" of a terrorist target or "more""

Tell that to the electorate.

"It is dishonest to suggest that going into Iraq was the sole cause of us being a terrorist target or that pulling out will solve our problems with terrorists."

I never suggested that Iraq is the sole cause or that us pulling out would solve our problems. I put it to you that it is dishonest to suggest that Iraq has nothing to do with the level of risk Australia faces, acknowledging of course, that you never said that either.

The topic is APEC and the likely effect an attack would have on the election. Since the election outcome will reflect what most people believe to be true, regardless of what's actually true, I wrote my comment on that basis.

Of course APEC wsill work for Howard - whichever way it goes.
If there's no trouble - or even if there are only peaceful protests - Howard will claim it as a victory.

If there is trouble - great! Howard will piously emphasise the need to increase security. It will help him electorally - he's not doing too well on the GREED motive - but the FEAR one has always been a winner for Howard.

I guess, above all - for Howard - it gives him his top goal - to strut upon the world stage - which is where he fancies himself. He'd better savour it. He'll be a forgotten man after the next election

Howard also has a genius for getting essential agenda items quietly submerged in the public brouhaha. He has done it with the "aboriginal emergency" - discrediting all aborigines, while paving the way for uranium mining and international nuclear waste dumping.

At APEC - Howard will quietly get Australia joined up to the Grandiose Nonsensical Exaggeration and Propaganda. Sorry - did I misspell that? - the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership.

The mainstream media will no doubt sleep their way through this next bit of Howard sleight of hand.
Christina Macpherson www.antinuclearaustralia.com

No thread creator I disagree.
It is good that all citizens join the protest on the attrocities that have come from Blair, Bush and Howard these Western Leaders have created extreme problems on their own subjects. The Soviet Union was the Scapegoat so they then turned upon the next anti capitalist economy Islam. These are ruthless Christian Leaders that drop cluster bombs upon innocent people. Depleted uranium and agent orange upon their own soldiers whoops friendly fire. Missiles surgically impacted my bottom. We all do need to demonstrate in as many numbers as possible because we can all see Kevin Rudd making the same mistake expansion of uranium mining is a prime example. Peace be with you brothers and sisters.

Tut tut Chainsmoker I think the venue for the APEC meeting was decided years ago. Now a nice letter or two to the Prime Minister asking him to 'resign'(ie go to the polls before the meeting) and how would you feel about the APEC meeting then? It would be a 'good thing' yes? It would give Rudd the world stage for a day or two. Would it do any more than that? I rather doubt it. Rudd's Shadow Ministry is shadowy indeed. He is scared to let them loose on the electorate in case they put a foot out of line - and people are reminded of their union past.
APEC should probably be ditched as an organisation anyway - it's good for a laugh over the shirts but little more. Labor will not be able to change that and will, in the end, have even less influence in regional affairs.

my only consolation is that, since we don't have any political control over our lives in this clayton's democracy, you lot can only talk.

this has psychological benefits to you, and certainly benefits the nation, as i am sure our nation's leaders don't monitor this site for guidance.

murdoch and dubya between them keep johnny on the phone enough, that however much he would like to satisfy the heartland, he's just too busy satisfying the important people.

"the venue for the APEC meeting was decided years ago."

And?

I haven't said anything about whether APEC is a good or bad thing in itself. As I said before, the proposed topic is the effect an attack on the APEC meeting might have on the election outcome.

Obviously, if the election had already been held before the meeting, the meeting couldn't have a retrospective effect on the election. Nor would an attack on the meeting.

Unions and the shadow cabinet don't have anything to do with it either, unless of course they organised the timing of the meeting to coincide with bad poll news for the government, which I seriously doubt.

"APEC should probably be ditched as an organisation anyway - it's good for a laugh over the shirts but little more. Labor will not be able to change that and will, in the end, have even less influence in regional affairs."

No need to be so glum Communicat. Maybe Labor will come up with nicer shirts that make the region feel more inclined to cooperation than it's been for the past decade. You just never know.

Chin up old fella. I've been barracking for the losing team for more than 10 years now and I know how depressing it is. Hopefully my side will have learned from that and this war of Australians against one another will be over soon.

A very strange post, from a rabble rouser, prone to being on the edge of hysteria, who does not even supply his real name.

I think we can pass the test on that one chain smoker.

I'm not sure which of us is the rabble rouser Sahra, but I have my name in my tag.

If anything, this discussion looks at any hypothetical response to APEC rather than APEC itself. The danger that the response from the left is the desired effect that John Howard wants. Including the racism from the other side.

The thread is in response to junkmail and emails from leftist and green groups trying to rally people up to anti-APEC meetings.

Somone raised the costume photo they have to do. You know that they will all wear gum tree green Akubra Hats, Dry-as-a-bone overcoats, and tan pants with RM Williams boots.

Bush will say that this is the most comfortable costume he has ever had to wear, and will keep pulling Howard in for the photographs, Howard will be forced to smile. Howard will be stuck with Bush, and that could be the fun of the meeting.

"Same thing with terrorism and if they are too stupid to see that then dont bother yourself trying to explain it.
Remember we all did nothing about Hitler.
You would have thought they may have learned from that." (Quote:PALIEF)

Oooooooh!, how right you are. When Hitler invaded Australia he set up home over the back fence. WELL!....what a carry on;-stomping around the garden day and night chanting: Aussie!,Aussie!,Aussie! Mein!,Mein!,Mein!. Truly, you can only take so much of it.

..............and that Eva Braun woman,...what a hussy!....

Agreed Bronco Lane.