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The Forum > General Discussion > Police Violence, A Growing Concern,

Police Violence, A Growing Concern,

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In the latest outbreak of police violence in NSW, four burly officers held down an unarmed and defenceless 16 year old youth while he was holidaying in Byron Bay. The police beat the boy mercilessly with a baton, punched the lad numerous times with their fists, about 20 times! There are reports that both capsicum spray and a taser gun were used on the boy, during the violent assault. The victum of the brutal attack by coppers required hospitalisation for extensive bruising and a broken rib. Fortunately, the almost 3 minute rampage by police was filmed by a member of the public, thus avoiding another copper cover up!

The Law Enforcement Conduct Commission (LECC) in Sydney is investigating whether the officers used excessive force and therefore engaged in serious misconduct while arresting the 16-year-old

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-26/teenager-hit-by-police-in-byron-bay/9586214

We can only hope justice is served. If these four should be found guilty of serious misconduct, hopefully their days as NSW police officers will be no more!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 5:46:17 AM
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Paul,

"We can only hope justice is served. If these four should be found guilty of serious misconduct,..."

That's a good thought, although rather compromised by your opening remarks!
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:29:03 AM
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I agree. But what was the lad on. Some of this stuff gives people the strength of ten men. Apparently the Taser had no effect on him which suggests something like Angle Dust. Maybe he was a danger to others.

They should teach the Police Camp Drafting Skills. You know, tackle 'em & tie their feet & hands together. Da Dahhha! On the Clock.

Personally if the person is that high on Drugs I would just monitor them. I wouldn't call for an Ambulance. If they die, they die, self inflicted, no sympathy. One less DH to cause trouble. I like Dutete in the Philippines idea. My next door neighbour was his neighbour when she was growing up. She likes him too. He's from Davos in Mindanao.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:12:58 AM
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Issy, my opening remarks are factual.

Was it an act of violence by police? Yes
Were the officers bury? Yes
Was the 16 year old defenceless? Yes
Was the 16 year old holidaying in Byron Bay? Yes
Did the police beat the boy mercilessly with fists and batons? Yes
All the rest is yes, yes, yes.

My point here is twofold. Firstly a member of the public had the good sense to video the whole episode clearly, and that resulted in the involvement of the independent LECC, no more police investigating police, which in the past, has been highly questionable.

Secondly, what I believe I was witnessing on the film was a "gang" mentality, not professional and necessary action by police officers to subdue a violent, and potentially dangerous person. Rather a group of four coppers getting their jollies by excessively exercising violent behaviour on a relatively harmless juvenile.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:30:11 AM
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Paul1405: on a relatively harmless juvenile.

As I said Paul, depends on what he was on. Angle Dust & other Substances give a person the strength of ten men. Anyway he is a Drugo. In the Philippines he would have been shot dead & that would have been the end of the matter. It's a pity the Government can't introduce similar Laws here. It would certainly cut down on Crime & get rid of a lot of Crims at the same time.

I don't see why the Police don't get a Drug Gang war going & let them sort each other out, then keep it going. It would save heaps in Court time, Cheap, easy & efficient. Poor 'ol Lawyers would miss out theough.

It'd get rid of a lot of Greenies too, & that could only be a good thing.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:44:42 AM
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Jayb, I take it for granted police office are professionally trained to deal with a situation, given the facts at hand. The facts as first presented to the officers; the 16 year old was of slight build, he appeared to be intoxicated, there was no evidence, or suggestion of any offensive weapon in his possession. The juvenile had not displayed any violent or abusive behaviour towards any other persons, no person offered a complaint of any kind to the police.
Anything else is superstition. The kid could have had an AK47 stuffed down his pants, bombs strapped to his body. Popped full of drugs, he could have had the strength of Hercules. Therefore given all these assumptions, lets all do a Rambo on this violent and dangerous criminal. Is this professional policing? I think not.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:50:20 AM
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Paul,

You said,

" If these four should be found guilty of serious misconduct,..."

Why say 'if' when you have made up your mind that they are guilty?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:51:45 AM
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Now the cats out of the bag!

"In the Philippines he would have been shot dead & that would have been the end of the matter. It's a pity the Government can't introduce similar Laws here. It would certainly cut down on Crime & get rid of a lot of Crims at the same time."

Its a pity, a real shame, we don't have a 'shot dead by police law'. I am most upset. Lets apply rule 303! Trust the rabid right to fly their true colours
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 11:58:26 AM
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Paul: Lets apply rule 303! Trust the rabid right to fly their true colours.

See you can be reasonable. I take it that you'd be a bit worried by that rule though. Ay.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:07:41 PM
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Dear Paul,

I agree with you whole-heartedly. This case is very disturbing.
It is hard to believe that four police officers, with all of
their training could not bring under control a 16 year old
boy and ended up beating him 14 times with batons because he
had a "scary look?" I suppose the boy's lucky not to have
been shot dead. I believe that he did not resist at all or
threaten anyone.

Hopefully, the investigation into this case will result in
appropriate action being taken with the officers concerned.
And also the kind of training that these officers are getting
should also be looked into. Something is very wrong when
officers behave in this manner. The reasons behind their
behaviour need to be examined and action taken to ensure that
this behaviour is not repeated by people who are supposed to be
in the job of protecting - not attacking members of the public.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:51:09 PM
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A lot depends on what he was on; I once had the very unpleasant duty of helping to subdue a fellow soldier who had drunk a concoction, the main ingredient of which was after-shave lotion.

Three of us were struggling to hold him such was his strength, and his best friend, who was a boxer, tried to knock him out.
He hit him with knockout punch after punch and finally succeeded.
He was sobbing his heart out at what he'd had to do.

He told me, the next day, that that was the only way that he could see to stop his best mate and that he took it upon himself because if anyone else had done it he would have been resentful towards them.

That was mateship.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 1:11:13 PM
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Hi there PAUL1405...

It's never a good look to see a group of coppers struggling with someone offering resistive behaviour. It appears they've lost control (if they ever had it?) and are unable to regain control of the subject once again.

Video evidence can sometimes be very misleading, from both sides of the coin. The police can be made to look bad, as well as the other party. From the brief bit I saw, I would only ask why couldn't a couple of coppers who really knew there stuff, bring this peanut under control?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 1:42:42 PM
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I think it would help all concerned if in our society
we treated addicts and mentally ill people like they
need help - not as criminals.

Some issues like acting
erratically due to mental illness or possessing and
using drugs due to addiction would be better served by
medical attention, not incarceration or beatings.

If we were able to train police officers to better identify
and confront these problems using de-escalation tactics, not
extreme tactics like force, bashings and or
shootings, we would get better results.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 2:01:15 PM
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Hi FOXY...No doubt a fine idea, however there's so much more to this, than meets the eye. Believe me.
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 2:10:35 PM
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Foxy: I think it would help all concerned if in our society we treated addicts and mentally ill people like they need help

How many times has that been tried. Hundreds, every Professor of Sociology has had their Two Bobs worth & the problem is only getting worse.

Foxy: - not as criminals.

Excuse me. By definition, they are Criminals. They take & deal in substances which are illegal. That makes them Criminals.

Foxy: and or shootings

Some things I have no time for what-so-ever. Graffiti Artists, Druggos, Vandals & child Molesters. Shooting is a good thing. No sympathy. Just my opinion.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 2:31:26 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

You could be right. There could be more to this than
we're being told. However, I'm only going on what's
been reported thus far.

Dear Jayb,

I think that it's never a bad idea to look for ways in
which we can improve things. Ways in which to better
identify problems and confront these problems using
de-escalation tactics instead of brute force.
That's my opinion.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 2:53:50 PM
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Mayhem in the paradise of the Greens!

Of course the question not asked by Paul 1405, is why would a squad of police see it as necessary to take an arrest to the extreme of violence, for one subject?

Frustration with the attitude of the locals fits!
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 3:08:37 PM
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I'd be a lot more concerned about marxist thugs who treat the cops with contempt than the odd copper who does something wrong. Imagine having to put up with the antifa ferrals.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 3:23:02 PM
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Too right, we had better keep a close eye on those coppers.

Hell with in a decade or two, they could start to become as violent as union thugs, or even the ratbag green protesters. We wouldn't want to see that happening, now would we.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 3:40:43 PM
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Judging by the Greens' attitudes and actions in demonstrations and the tactics they use the prevent people from getting to venues to hear conservative speakers, I would have thought they enjoyed a bit of the old biffo.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 3:49:06 PM
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Foxy,

"... by people who are supposed to be
in the job of protecting - not attacking members of the public."

Could you kindly give a reference to where it says that it is part of the job of the police to protect the public?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 4:41:45 PM
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Foxy: I think that it's never a bad idea to look for ways in which we can improve things. Ways in which to better identify problems and confront these problems

That's exactly what Dutete is doing in the Philippines. They tried everything else & the problem was getting worse. Like my grandmother used to say, "Use the soft end of the brush on the soft end of the Child. If that doesn't work reverse them both." That's exactly what Dutete is doing & it's working, going on what my neighbours told me at the welcome home in the Street for them.

Another idea they have over there is minor Criminals work the State run Banana Plantations. They are allowed to live with their family in a home they have to build & the Community of Criminals have a Council to deal with anyone who plays up. If someone plays up the entire family is punished & maybe removed to an enclosed Prison without any privileges. Apparently the Communities run very well. There are no fences. This system was introduced by an American Professor around 1912. They are the only areas where the is no, or little crime.

Unfortunately, now-a-days, the mahommedeans gangs are disrupting the Plantations in the Southern Philippines (Mindanao) & the Island is becoming unsafe.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 5:03:56 PM
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DD asks the question; Why would a squad of police see it as necessary to take an arrest to the extreme of violence, for one subject?

Which is not a very difficult question to answer at all. Whenever you have a group of individuals together, with a pertinacity towards violence, be they a gang, a group of soldiers, or four police constables, who have been trained to participate in violent behaviour.
The group will act together differently than they would otherwise as individuals. That is nothing new, its well known fact.
In this case, it is significant that there were four coppers involved. It would be highly unlikely that as individuals, or even a group of two that they would have acted in the same violent manner as they did. Some doctors liken this behavior to a sexual experience. It could be possible that the main perpetrator or others, could have ejaculated in their trousers while having an erection during the experience. Something they are not likely to admit to.

The infamous case in history is Rodney King in the US back in 1991.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:19:19 PM
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Hi there PAUL1405...

I thought you and I were over this business of trading insults. You've no idea at all what it is to be a copper, or to walk in their shoes. Of course police make mistakes, some are very bad, (unforgivable) mistakes, why because they're only human. I'd ask you to pause a little, and ask yourself how easy it might be to place an individual offering resistive behaviour, under arrest?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:52:59 PM
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Paul1405: with a pertinacity towards violence, be they a gang, a group of soldiers, or four police constables, who have been trained to participate in violent behaviour.

Or, a group of Lefty, Socialist Greenies. You forgot to mention them. Noted for their violent Demonstrations.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:55:54 PM
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Posted by Toni Lavis, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:57:06 PM
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Paul 1405

I've an admission to make before I comment further.
I live close to the area where this incident occurred, and I am familiar with the behavioural problems of youth, which the police are attempting to deal with in this area.

It is quite true also, as I stated, the local status quo residents that should know better, have had their noses put out of joint, following a police swoop on nude bathers frequenting a local beach, where the police arrested and fined two offenders.

The Green base in Byron Bay believe themselves above the law on this issue, and have staged nude bicycle rides through prominent parts of the town in protest. These are the adults (sic) of the town, which are now complaining of police violence. It's simply pay back!

Secondly, and also not talked about; in conjunction with these trumped up police brutality accusations, there has been an escalation of violent confrontations with youth gangs, one in recent weeks which involved machete’s and other dangerous weapons.

To my mind, the poor little innocent sixteen yo in question, is well known to the police, (time will tell), and is a violent offender.
Posted by diver dan, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 7:05:10 PM
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Hi there Toni LAVIS...

An interesting response you have there? Indeed, '...who is to control the authorities...' '...quis custodiet ipsios custodes...' if the police can no longer control themselves?

Interestingly today there are far more auditory bodies overseeing police behaviour, than anyone can possibly imagine. I guess that's one of the reasons why some members of the public are heard to say, 'why can't the police do something'?

Years back quite often police could dispense with a bit of sidewalk justice, no longer I'm afraid, as people are made aware of their rights more so now than anytime in the past. Especially the young. That's why many young people thumb their noses at the police, and the coppers can't do a thing about it?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 7:35:22 PM
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DD, <<trumped up police brutality accusations>> Are they really. Maybe you favour the JayB style Filipino solution. Some among us are having great difficulty dealing with these charges of police misconduct. From the impassioned plea that <<You've no idea at all what it is to be a copper, or to walk in their shoes.>> That is not a reason to dismiss these allegations, or not expect these police to be held accountable for their actions if such is proven.

"sidewalk justice" and what does that involve? Possibly back to the Filipino solution. Its not justice when those of law enforcement take it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner, all rolled up into one .That is a nonsense, maybe certain coppers took it upon themselves to do exactly that.

We could get ride of all those nuance Nosy Parker's, who want to see justice served, and let the real men of law enforcement do their job. Back to the Filipino solution.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:26:18 PM
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THanks for local knowledge diver. Dealing with uncivilised barbarians is not much fun.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:29:44 PM
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DD these nude bicycle greenies riding through the prominent parts of the town, exposing their own prominent parts at the same time. Where do they keep their loose change should they pull up, and wish to park at one of those pesky parking meter spaces. They are all over the centre of town! Ballina is much nicer.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:49:38 PM
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I think you picked the wrong example of police brutality Paul 1405.

It will be a sad day for law and order, if the results of the LECC hearing this week, concludes anything other than justification of the police action here in this instance.

And if I were one of the good officers, maybe he would be bashed a bit harder, as a reminder to exercise some self control and personal responsibility, and respect towards the community in which he lives.
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 29 March 2018 12:18:02 PM
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Mid day News. The lad was high on LSD. Hmmm.... isn't that an illegal Drug. I bet he doesn't even get charged for the offence. Drugs.... Bang. Solved that problem.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 29 March 2018 1:29:46 PM
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Is police violence a growing concern?
I think not, but violence against police should be.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 29 March 2018 4:03:22 PM
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The cops are going to have to grow some real violence, if they are going to get these very violent youth gangs, of African appearance, under control in eastern Melbourne, & western Sydney.

They should pick them up, bus them to Canberra, & dump them on the steps of parliament house. Confront the pollies with what they are inflicting on many of our less wealthy citizens.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 29 March 2018 7:41:39 PM
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Hi there HASBEEN...

Why should police endanger themselves by being tough on these African gangs. After all they run the very real risk of being reported for being rough with these youngsters, and face months of Internal Inquiries for unseemly conduct. This is the climate police need to face in many of our States now, and why many of those in the job seek other duties away from working on the streets.

Many of those who are habitually critical of our police keep saying they need to be better trained. Take those four dealing with the young 16 yo, what further training is needed here I wonder? When I was younger I could've easily taken this young bloke (pictured) on my own, whether he's under the influence of ICE or otherwise - today whether you use three or six men, it seemed to be hopeless from the start. Why, because the coppers are too scared to even touch the kid, for fear of a series of cameras filming every damn thing, thus sending him to the 'go slow' without pay nor pension!

'The public receive the police force they deserve'.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 29 March 2018 8:50:59 PM
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The rabid right are calling for a mass orgy of police brutality towards anyone they perceive as wrong doers! Nothing new in that.

The lad was high on LSD, midday news, behind the times Jayb, that was known by all concerned from the outset. But its not relevant, no matter if the lad was high on LSD, or the ABC. What is relevant is, did these four coppers break the law, something you lads are not big on, whilst exercising their duty. Did these four burly officers use unnecessary, and therefore illegal force. to subdue this scrawny 16 year old kid. That my friends is what the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission will determine. Any problems with that?

p/s Just mention copper brutality and it brings out the forums "big" guns of the rabid right in their defence!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 March 2018 9:19:11 PM
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o sung wu,

What think you of police working alone?

I was thinking particularly of those on Highway Patrol, every time thatI've been stopped the bloke has been by himself, except a month or so ago when I was driving a car that is registered to a learner driver.

I was doing 80 k/h (roo avoidance speed) at about 11:00 PM well out in the countryside when I was stopped by a lone policewoman, who asked me if I owned the car and for my licence.

She probably thought that it was the learner, at that speed, and with no 'L' plates up.
Point is, I could have been anybody and dangerous.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 29 March 2018 9:25:10 PM
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Paul1405: What is relevant is, did these four coppers break the law, something you lads are not big on, whilst exercising their duty.

If it took four to subdue the lad then he was resisting arrest. There is only one Police Officer under investigation. The one with the Baton.

The lad took a hit with a Taser & one good wack with the Baton would bring down most people immediately. He didn't go down. Tackled by four Police Officers & they were struggling to hold him. Does that tell you something?

I guess Greenie Druggo always stick together. Ay. Is that why you are defending him so vigorously? They said it was LSD, but LSD makes you mellow, (Mellow Yellow (Donovan)) I suspect something a little stronger than LSD was involved. What does the Toxicology report say? Will they Charge him? I do believe that there has been a fair bit of youth Gang Violence in the past few weeks also.

I expect that the Coppers were pretty fed up at this stage, especially if the local Magistrate was letting them go with a, "Don't be naughty. Boys. Off you go."
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 29 March 2018 9:42:16 PM
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What's with these namby-pamby coppers? News report today; Recently an old coot was pulled up doing 80k's in a 40 school zone, without his "L's" on, trying to run down what he reckened were "kangaroo's with school bags". The lady policeperson, without as much as a baton to the forehead, asked; did he own the car? kissy kissy, and could she see his licence, pleaseeeee, but only if its convenient.
I ask you, what are the coppers coming to. Girly policemen for a start. In the good old days a riot load of men being men coppers would have descended on this insidious law breaker, given him a right kicking, a bit of sidewalk justice, in my view, before arresting him for resisting arrest, and assaulting police, not to mention being drunk and disorderly. Ah! bring back the good old days, agree Issy?
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 March 2018 10:19:23 PM
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From 'The Northern Star' today.

"On Thursday, LECC Chief Commissioner Michael Adams told one of the officers involved, known as Officer E, that his actions demonstrated a "complete lack of common sense".

"Some thought, some insight about what you're doing and why you're doing it, that's what I'm searching to get," Commissioner Adams said.

"I'm finding it difficult to accept your reasoning as reasonable ... what you are doing appears to be deliberate."

The hearing heard Officer E initially struck the boy four times with his baton, before landing another 14 baton strikes in a series of separate flurries while the boy screamed for help on the ground.

It heard that Officer E continued to beat the boy, referred to in the hearing as AO, even after he was handcuffed and physically restrained by three much-larger officers, with another officer in a nearby police vehicle as backup.

"I think by that stage it's really disappointing me, the whole incident,"

Officer E said."It's not pleasant, I think everyone would agree with that."

Goodbye Officer 'E', these people should be named.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 March 2018 10:34:52 PM
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Four large men holding down a sixteen year old kid and beating the crap out of him... if people did that without uniforms on, you'd all be demanding that the cowards be locked up. Let's hope these blokes never find themselves in a fair fight, eh? How will they be able to handle themselves without all their mates to hold the other bloke down while they kick him?

What a bunch of heroes.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 30 March 2018 8:39:21 AM
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Paul,

Your 'wit' like your spelling "... what he reckened..." leaves much to be desired.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2018 9:37:56 AM
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I did 32 years in the job. There are not many arrests for street offences that turn out to be consensual. If resistive behaviour is offered, in turn police must counter it, by deploying force directly proportional to that resistance offered.

It's known as the 'Doctrine of Proportionality' which forms part of, the wider, all encompassing 'Use of Force Paradigm'. An issue that came from a judgement originally emanating from the High Court.

Prima facie (means; 'On the face of it')...Did those four coppers who were in the process of attempting to restrain this 16 yo youth, deploy excessive force?

Possibly the Officer with the baton - though I wasn't there. Thus I'm not in possession of all the facts; viz. 'the before's & the after's'.

When younger I have no doubt whatsoever I could've controlled this bloke on my own, ICE affected or otherwise. After all there are some herein, who in the past have accused me of being a thug and bully boy, so it should prove easy for me??

The problem today, and appearing to be almost insurmountable for the cops; there are too many 'auditors' of police behaviour, and they're simply too nervous to act and get the job done quickly and efficiently.

Damned if the do & Damned if the don't.

The critics say train them better? OK in what way? Show us all how they should be better trained? Deploy mental health workers? Excellent idea if the problem is one concerning mental health, and not strictly street hooliganism. You see armchair experts always identify the problem; but are bereft of any realistic solutions! And I'd include some 'ombudsmen' from the past in that equation!
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:02:23 AM
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OSW: The critics say train them better? OK in what way? Show us all how they should be better trained? Deploy mental health workers?

Off Topic but. remember when they charged that section for blowing up a kid in a Room in Afghanistan & that female Military Lawyer wanted them charged. I suggested then that; on every Patrol they should have a Military Barrister, so every time the Section gets into a Fire Fight the MB can go & speak to the belligerents to see if it's OK to proceed. I can see that working. ;-) In fact that'd be a good idea. Ay.

Same here. On every Patrol a Law type person must be there to give the Police advice when they are arresting Crim. Can you see them wanting to do that. Ha ha.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:11:26 AM
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G'day to you JAYB...

Same thing with the coppers - with every call-out, the Patrol should be accompanied by a Psychologist; Barrister; Social Worker, Mental Health Nurse, the SAS (if available) etc. Forget about a police car, get a bus to carry all the ancillary support workers in case the 'knucklehead' wants access to someone during the course of his arrest!

The funny thing JAYB, the real crime if you will, is when they get sentenced to gaol. Ostensibly, they should be protected in every sense of the word, but they're not. Gaol itself is a crime that's perpetrated against almost all prisoners.

Whether they're assaulted; stood-over; anally raped; intimidated; or menaced in other ways. Being in gaol is just like existing in a small all encompassing community, with it's own government and decision makers. The official Prison Administration and staff, are only there in order to give sanction to those of the 'unofficial govt. and staff, to run the place. Along their own lines and within their own rules and terms.

So unless the inmate is of strong character and capable of taking care of himself, both physically and psychologically, gaol is just the beginning of the end. Allowing them to invariable end up on the road to personal perdition. Sad but true I'm afraid. The States gaols have *got to be cleaned up, starting at the very top*.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 30 March 2018 11:57:36 AM
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The attitude from the rapid right is deplorable. I think Officer Egg may well be charged with aggravated assault etc which if proven should demand a custodial sentence. The three wackos who held the lad down while Egg got his jollies and bashed him, should be unceremoniously booted from the force. The numskull who sat in the truck and done nothing should be stationed somewhere so he can do the least harm, like west of the Black Stump!

The notion that coppers are above the law, and should mete out this so called "sidewalk justice" is typical police state nonsense. Any copper who thinks that they have this god given right to dispense their brand of justice at will, should not be in the force for 32 seconds, let alone 32 years!

Issy. a fool is a fool, is a fool.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 March 2018 1:55:33 PM
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P1405: I think Officer Egg may well be charged with aggravated assault etc which if proven should demand a custodial sentence.

& the lad high on Drugs, likewise. Don't you think. or do you think he should get a million Dollars to spend up on Drugs bigtime, sharing a Tanker full of LSD with his mates?
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 30 March 2018 2:01:59 PM
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I have a great idea.

We should co-opt Paul & his mates for a flying squad or two. We could fly them by chopper to any area with a difficult arrest going on. He could then demonstrate his superior ability to do the job.

If he failed, the cops could than at least use him as a shield. where he could take the knees & elbows to the groin, & other tender bits of his anatomy. His attitude would change very quickly.

Like my lady, a real case of bleeding heart for years, telling anyone who would listen, that those unemployed were victims not bludgers. It took over a year of working for a charity Job Network Provider, specifically with the long term unemployed case book in our town, to finally change her mind.

One might after a harrowing day, when they had to call the cops twice, to control ratbags threatening violence because they had been breached, & their welfare reduced, it all came out.

She finally admitted to herself that 60% of her casebook were very real bludgers. Dozens were caught working cash in hand, while still claiming the dole. Many others stopped turning up for work they had been found, in less than a fortnight.

Most of these bleeding hearts have very little experience of those they are crying over.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 30 March 2018 3:14:58 PM
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Paul,

"The attitude from the rapid right is deplorable..."

What about the slow right?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2018 4:31:30 PM
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Anyway, since the police obviously have the rough end of the pineapple during an arrest event, why not use a tranquilliser dart; or a net?
It's a technology for capturing dangerous wild animals which works well. It would fit the circumstances to a tee, tackling drug induced psychotics IMHO.

OSO

I had a couple of years mowing lawns for the Queen at one stage. Every weekend locked up in PDC with two football teams of alcoholics. That was pretty cruisy.

unfortunately, as cruisy as it was, it was way too difficult for many of the drug induced psychos, who quickly ended up over the wall in the big house!

It was a breeze for me, just like being in the army again! Everything in life is a game with rules.
If you understand the need for rules, no problem. But I sense the recognition of this fact is slipping out of sight.
There have always been drugs to contend with, but I am appalled at the sophistication of recreational pharmacology and its outcomes now!
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 30 March 2018 4:37:42 PM
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You got me thinking HASBEEN each generation as they begin to develop and expand, have some new social impediment they need to confront. In our times it was of course the strong emergence of Communism. Followed later by the increasing powers of the Union movement, and so it goes on. And in the 1960's was the age of rebellion by our younger folk; viz opposition to the War in Vietnam & free Uni fees etc.

Later, from the mid 1995's through to the present day, we have the emergence of this other new Group. At first glance, they seem to be quite good, albeit with narrow policies. They're known generally and colloquially, as 'The Greens'? Recently and less kindly, some have described them as the 'Browns' - apparently representative of the colour of human excrement?

You couldn't possibly find a more demented and cuckoo group of social oddball's, anywhere. They're probably the greatest political embarrassment ever to emanate from this country, since federation. And one well known name, Ms HANSEN-YOUNG strikes fear into every ordinary, clear thinking Australian citizen. Dogs bark; children scream and all semblance of bird life disappears. While everyone else is wondering with bated breathe as to what next, this extraordinarily vacuous lady might possibly do? A few centuries ago, Wm. SHAKESPEARE may well've written a brilliant comedy even a sonnet, on the Greens, alas he's no longer around, and Dr Brown wants nothing more to do with them, nor their madcap ideas.

It now seems (these Greens) are hellbent in totally dislocating the very fabric of Society, by obstructing, good policy in the Senate. Moreover generally playing havoc with everything else the Reps. have proposed in the Senate. For some reason they're unable to understand, the true function and role of the Senate. Being primarily a House of Review, not one that produces Bills, in order that it be enshrined it into Law. What next will we have to incur? What next me' ol' Navy Aviator mate?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 30 March 2018 5:17:30 PM
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Now that is a surprise DIVER DAN? What terrible earth shattering thing did you do, to get yourself confined for twenty four months earning the 'Queens Shilling' by mowing lawns? Somehow my friend, if I were to juxtapose you and PDC, somehow it just does NOT compute? Certainly not for a 24 months period?

I don't propose to quiz you about it, as it would be quite rude and intrusive. We had another contributor on 'The Forum' with his epithet 'Known unto God' (I think?) or similar, and he by his own admission was in and out quite regularly all due to Drugs, which was very very sad. I'm positive you'd recognise his moniker?

But you're right of course. From what I've heard, more violence and fatalities occur in gaol through ingestion of illegal drugs than any other single cause? Alcohol is way back I'm afraid? It's drugs, drugs and more drugs! Simple as that?

Next question how do you stop drugs getting into gaol - I don't know.

Next question; how do you stop drugs getting onto the street - still don't know, other than we seem to have tried everything? Thanks mate.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 30 March 2018 5:37:28 PM
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OSW: Next question; how do you stop drugs getting onto the street - still don't know, other than we seem to have tried everything?

Well not everything. Ol' Dutete seems to be getting the job done. It's a method we haven't tried here, yet. Maybe worth a try. Of course you'd have the Greenies upset, but that'd be a good thing.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 30 March 2018 5:50:06 PM
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Hassy, you have never had a great idea in your life? The detritus ideas you post are testament to that fact.

Issy, I throw those in for you, considering you have nothing intelligent to contribute. Having you troll around like some bottom feeding swamp dweller, looking for errors, is preferable to reading your generally preposterous clap trap.

You and Hasbeen could do a double act, as the Issy and Hassy Clown Duo. Now there is a thought.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 March 2018 6:04:38 PM
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Paul,

"...generally preposterous clap trap."

Grammarly tells me that claptrap is one word.

Grammarly is free for the basic tools.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2018 6:40:44 PM
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Issy, is "Grammarly" your pet name for you dear old Grammar? Does Grammarly tell you when its time for a mimi. You are going to ask me what a mimi is, why not ask Grammerly! Stop being pukuriri, now you are going to ask me what pukuriri is, and I'm not going to tell you, you're so smart, you tell me.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 30 March 2018 7:03:18 PM
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Hi there IS MISE...

I'm sorry for not answering your very 'controversial' question, it slipped my mind. I say controversial because the various State Police Unions in Oz have fought tooth and nail to ensure police always work in pairs where possible.

Save for solo Bikes, and HWP Motor (Pursuit) Vehicles. You would see in NSW, pursuit cars in daylight hours are often solo, with S/C on board. All pretty experienced coppers. However in hours of darkness usually they'll work in pairs. GD's most definitely work in pairs.

As do detectives, always in pairs, whether it's day or night, unless in the 'dogs' (Observation Squad) or other Intelligence gathering roles. Detectives because of the very nature of their work often need to have someone to corroborate their inquiries when interviewing suspects or other interested parties, when attempting to discover the author of a crime.

In the USA I've actually seen female troopers working the Freeways on their own, late into the evening. Over their transmission well in the front seat that have an 870P in a rack standing upright and very easily accessible. In the Boot (Trunk) that have an AR15 or M16 depending on the agency, together with a .37mm Federal Gas Gun, complete with a full range of Chemical Agents incl. CN; CS; CR; and HC (smoke) Projectiles. So you might say these delicate young ladies have sufficient options available to them to pass away a boring night?

I hope it helps mate. Personally I think it's good if, where possible, coppers do work in pairs.
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 30 March 2018 7:27:06 PM
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Me thinks our Paul is horrified, or is it terrified, at the thought of having to actually do that which he complains the cops can't do well.

He really is all talk, no chance of him getting any skin in the game, it might hurt.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 30 March 2018 9:19:09 PM
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OSW.

here's one you can relate to, it's called;

Drugs in a ball, and over the wall:

From over the wall and the razor wire, in the dead of night, in the beam of a bright search light, bounced a ball.

At dawn, in the hour before muster, a ball in the hand of attentive guard, discovered on the ground in his early round.

A note inside is the morning mirth, “Give this to Uncle Fred".

This happened.

And how I got to be the observer, was reward for dealing justly with a psychopath.
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 31 March 2018 6:59:50 AM
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Hi there DIVER DAN...

Well I'll be buggered, you're indeed a gentleman of extraordinary talents both as a poet and an observer of consequence. Gaols and the curtilages thereof, tend to be quite well monitored during hours of darkness, and anything that by happenstance, finds its way over the wall is instantly investigated, provided of course the guards are awake, and are of a mind to investigate?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 31 March 2018 10:02:55 AM
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Nothing like a poem;

There was a young lad from Byron
Who did not hear the police siren!
Instead of a tongue lashing
They gave him a bashing!

Now those four coppers
Are learning the score!
And may well find....
That, their, jobs.... are no more!
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 6:40:15 AM
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Now I wish to deal with Paul 1405.

The Brat...

Not bad (poem), but sentiments short of the quid,

For standing in public in no undies and shirt

Was also short of a quid....

And as a consequence that, (and other behaviour of a brat),

He earned his just desert.

P1405

If you were to use logic and reason as your guide in this matter, your conclusion would fail to defend your victim.
But humans of course, are not creatures of reason by nature, we descended from Apes.

We evolved over thousands of years hunting and gathering in small bands,and honed further our intelligence processes, in the service of those aims.
Only very recently did we become literate, and begin a civilising process which is ongoing. And your victim is demonstration enough to prove the fact.

Taking drugs as did your victim, is undoing the civilising process Paul 1405, and should be roundly punished, as it was by the good policeman.
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:28:31 AM
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It well be the case, one or more of those police could lose their jobs. If that happens I guess your outrage will finally be assuaged PAUL1405. The youth ('Victim') concerned will be able to boast to his mates how clever and calculated his behaviour was, that he managed to have a copper lose his job. I suspect there will be congratulations all around as a consequence of that result.

And the other three police, will be paraded and formerly warned, with their Pers. File appropriately endorsed, as a result of their misconduct. So the next time there's a job involving resistive behaviour, these three will be loath to assist, other than to offer a token level of assistance, in other words they might as well not be there.

People have often asked me and others of my vintage, why it takes so many coppers to arrest one individual? I'll tell you why the average GD is just too damn scared to offer meaningful assistance. I say 'sacred' not because they're physical cowards, rather the very real risk of either losing their job; their benefits; their Pension; their good name and reputation; or they'll support their wife and family ; service their mortgage; etc etc.

Yet most of the general public continually ask why aren't police a lot rougher and tougher on street violence especially the street hoodlums and violent drug pushers.

And shouting noisily from the side-lines we have the likes of PAUL1405, continually condemning every move the police make, by bleating loudly for more training and still more training. As always I would respectfully ask PAUL1405 to show us all, precisely what training police should get that would satisfy him?
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:17:45 PM
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Perverted logic there DD. The coppers had no idea he was on drugs at the time that they were administering the bashing. Not withstanding, it also begs the question, because a person is on drugs should that giver the coppers some kind of licence to bash them.

Under what other circumstance should coppers be given a free licence to bash people?

Because they are mentally ill, poor, female, their colour, not of the correct ethnic or religious background. They are of the wrong political persuasion. Simply on suspicion, that is a good enough reason for a bloke like you, and a few others on this forum, so it would seem.

Having gangs of thugs in uniform, going around bashing people, does that remind you of anything in history. Maybe the good old days.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:30:14 PM
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Hi o sung wu,

On the contrary, should an officer lose his job over this, and/or others disciplined, it will not be as you say "congratulations all around as a consequence of that result." In fact it will be a sad outcome indeed, no winners, just losers! Many, rightly make much of the difficulty that is the job of a police officer, and that has always been the case. Along with everything else there is a commitment by those that join the force to uphold the law, not break the law. Just as it goes for the bad guys, coppers that transgress should expect a punishment befitting their crime. No one including police are above the law.
The day we as a society start turning a blind eye to law breaking by police, is the day we give up the right to a free and democratic society, and start living under the rule of a police state. Something I certainly do not want, do you?
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:51:08 PM
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Paul

"The coppers had no idea he was on drugs.."

The unusual level of strength is a fair indicator as is the ability to absorb blows that would render a normal person quite in a second.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 1 April 2018 2:08:58 PM
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p1405: The day we as a society start turning a blind eye to law breaking by police, is the day we give up the right to a free and democratic society, and start living under the rule of a police state. Something I certainly do not want, do you?

The day we as a society start turning a blind eye to law breaking by ANYONE, is the day we give up the right to a free and democratic society, and start living under the rule of ANARCHY. Something I certainly do not want, do you?
Posted by Jayb, Sunday, 1 April 2018 4:18:48 PM
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I remind you Issy of the words of LECC Chief Commissioner Michael Adams while speaking to Officer E, that his actions demonstrated a "complete lack of common sense".

There has been no suggestion during the hearing that the youth was resisting. In fact the video shows he was clearly restrained by three officers while Officer E beat and punched him repeatedly. For you to assert that the victim was demonstrating an unusual level of strength is simply not borne out by the facts/
You are always calling for evidence from others, where is your evidence for your erroneous claim.

I don't believe the coppers were aware that they were being filmed. Silly little pigs.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 5:40:24 PM
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Hi there PAUL1405...

I find your insulting remarks of police ('silly little pigs') reprehensible PAUL1405. You've really revealed you true colours haven't you!
Posted by o sung wu, Sunday, 1 April 2018 6:20:11 PM
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Paul,

"The coppers had no idea he was on drugs.."

How do you know?

As far as strength goes, from the video, it looks as if it takes three to restrain him.

Why don't we wait till the inquiry is over?
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 1 April 2018 6:50:43 PM
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o sung wu, no more than someone who calls for so called "sidewalk justice" police beating innocent people indiscriminately! The pompous high moral ground does not become one who readily calls for summery justice to be metered out at will, by a bunch of uniformed thugs!

"Years back quite often police could dispense with a bit of sidewalk justice" Did that include entering cells to bash people, a common practice in the good old days, was it not. The verbalising of people to obtain a conviction, etc.

Don't give me this martyrdom nonsense, being the life of a poor copper. Employment in the police force is really no better, or no worse, than any other job, otherwise people would not be clamouring to join. I don't believe they have a problem getting recruits. It is in itself a well paid and rewarding profession.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 7:30:04 PM
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Again Paul 1405

I read that you oppose violence in its many forms. That is a truely liberal left position.
But in your opinions on this issue of an arrest by four police officers, of a violent offender in Byron Bay, you simply follow the siren call of the liberal Greens electorate that Byron Bay is.

Without repeating myself, I've outlined the politics behind this attack on authority, by the local establishment in posts above. It's a convenient pay back for a perceived attack on the towns liberal left anti establishment view, on how they perceive that life should be !

It's the nature of the town to encourage hippy life styles, by encouraging music festivals which continually fall short of the socially acceptable, both in outcomes of law and order, and overcrowding, and disregard to the convenience of those visitors and residents who wish and deserve peace, outraged by scant regard to a morality of acceptable community standards, by festival goers.
In short, the movers and groovers of this town, have created a monster which is now out of control.

There is a regular presence of the riot squad in Byron Bay, and opposing authority has become a sport of visiting yobbos, who frequent the beleaguered town in their thousands.
That is entirely why many of them arrive; to be entertained by this sad spectacle.

One of the tenets of liberal left is opposition to authority. It's an anarchy they wish for, but when it happens, call for help from the establishment it loves to oppose.
This alone makes the Greens look like the bunch of yobbos they are reputed
to be.
Posted by diver dan, Sunday, 1 April 2018 7:34:45 PM
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DD, please provide evidence that the youth in question was a "violent offender". Without evidence it is simply worthless supposition on your part. Unless you, and you alone are privy to some as yet undisclosed information, how can you claim there was some form of "pay back" for the so called liberalism within the town of Byron Bay. That is nothing more than an assumption on your part. You may see yourself as an expert on all things Byron, but I suspect you are probably not. Just someone with an opinion based on a bit of local knowledge. I was in Byron Bay about 10 days ago, does that also make me an expert on the place?

I believe it was somewhat more mundane than what you paint it as. More like four burly coppers getting their jollies at the expense of a drunk 16 year. The coppers were not to know their actions were being filmed, and there would be later ramifications.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 1 April 2018 8:18:20 PM
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Foxy,

"... by people who are supposed to be
in the job of protecting - not attacking members of the public."

Have you found a reference to where it says that it is part of the job of the police to protect the public?
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:11:49 PM
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Paul 1405

Is your problem with everyday reality, related to a lantana patch 14.05klm from Nimbin?
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 2 April 2018 9:00:08 AM
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//Have you found a reference to where it says that it is part of the job of the police to protect the public?//

That would be in the Peelian principles laid down by Sir Robert Peel, the father of modern policing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
Posted by Toni Lavis, Monday, 2 April 2018 9:06:57 AM
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Toni,

The Peelian Principles are irrelevant to the question as they do not say that it is part of the job of the police to protect the citizen.

In the US, where the Principles are also part of their police traditions, the Court has ruled that the police are not responsible for the protection of the public.

"Modern police reformers have described the Peelian Principles as being relevant in the present day, with American law-enforcement officer William Bratton calling them "my bible."[11]"
(from your citation).

This is not to say that the vast majority of police, here and in the US, would not risk their lives to save a fellow citizen but they are not obliged to do so.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 2 April 2018 9:57:58 AM
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DD, provide evidence that this 16 year old is as you claim a "violent offender". Otherwise I say you simply made it up.

It would be interesting to know at what level these four coppers, five if you include the one in the paddy wagon, are at regarding rank and service. I suspect they may well be simply wet behind the ears constables with little on the job experience. Which one of the gang was in charge, and what rank did he hold. Was Officer Egg in charge and was he showing the lads how its done? Possibly it was a slow night with nothing to do, so when a free for all was in the offing they all joined in. Why did 5 have to attend? Probably fortunate for them they were not breath tested to determine if they had not been on the turps themselves that night, they wouldn't be the first coppers to be drunk on the job . Rather than acting like professional police officer, They were more acting like a gang of party animals.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 2 April 2018 4:01:47 PM
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I take it that you don't have any respect for Police or the Law, P1405. Just going by the tone of your Posts about Police. You must have had a fair bit to do with the wrong end of them at demonstrations etc,. It wouldn't surprise me with the attitude towards Law & Order you have. Been locked up a few times for disorderly behaviour. Have we. ;-) You seem to have an extremely contemptible attitude towards Authority.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 2 April 2018 4:37:58 PM
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Jayb, with your admiration for the "Filopeno Model" and your servile support for the legally questionable actions of police, and obvious admiration for a police state. I take it you are a member of some micro, but extremely radical, neo-fascist organization.

Obviously a hater of political opponents; "It'd get rid of a lot of Greenies too, & that could only be a good thing."

You also claim "Shooting is a good thing."

You hailed this as a great idea;

"They are allowed to live with their family in a home they have to build & the Community of Criminals have a Council to deal with anyone who plays up. If someone plays up the entire family is punished & maybe removed to an enclosed Prison without any privileges."

This could be the Warsaw Ghetto. and you could be the Commandant.

Are you going to get all upset and throw a tissy, like others around here who say what they like, but then get so pissed off, when called out.

Your summation of me is not entirely correct. I am a Libertarian, but it is understandable how such a person would be upsetting to you, given your admiration for an extremely regimented society.

The only police of today I have been less than kind to, are the ones concerned within this thread. The vast majority of police, do a good job, do what they are paid to do, and are no problem to society. Just the occasional rough copper who deserves what he gets.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 2 April 2018 7:33:05 PM
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P1405: I take it you are a member of some micro, but extremely radical, neo-fascist organization.

No, I don’t belong to anything or Political Party. Not even extremely Right Wing. There’s a lot about them I don’t like. Let’s go the old Right Wing 80/20, Left Wing 20/80, thing. Like the old Buddhist saying. “Everything in Moderation.”

The way I read your Posts so far is that all Police are ar$eholes waiting to happen & all Greenies Left Wing people are Pure as the Driven Snow. Sorry, I just don’t buy that or the reverse.

I do believe that something has to be done, Drastically, to fix the present situation of Drugos, Terrorists, Crime Gangs, Bad Politicians on all sides, Anarchists, & Socialist Education Teachers & Greenies. You know, The people who are destroying our great Country.

If it takes a Dutete or a Trump type, then so be it. Something has to be done. At this stage in History I would support them. Then maybe we could settle back into a more Civilized Society after it's been cleaned up & there is a lot to clean up at the moment.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 2 April 2018 9:53:24 PM
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Police have a difficult enough job, that is needed for society to function. Yet instead of acknowledging this and tring to support our officers in our communities, (while still seeking high standards for them to meet and be true to the badges they wear), instead of any support, we are turning to a growing culture across nations to tare police down, and even glorify those who would do a police harm. Hopefully Australia will not see the same thing I see in the US. Part of the culture celebrating when there's news of a police getting shot or ambushed. Saying things like they get what they deserve or some such things.

May none of you or any you know hold such murderous positions, that endanger our police forces and add more stress to them across many western societies. If we want police violence to end we need to also support those that do a good job in the first place. Not just bash police in any given moment.
Posted by Not_Now.Soon, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 3:42:01 AM
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Jayb, I detest extremism in all its forms. I think you overstate the dire circumstance that Australia is in, as you claim. Your call for remedial action against a long list of perceived undesirables/ agitators/ trouble makers/ criminals etc etc, and that is probably not the entire list, where would it end? You are calling for a substantive radicalization of society. You may not be a member of any formalized political group, but certainly your well held beliefs call for a dramatic realignment of society, that is extremism. I do not believe the vast majority of Australians are prepared for, or supportive of, like you, of something of the nature of the "Filipino Model" and everything that would entail, death squads, summery executions, etc etc.

I put it to you, that your solution for Australia's social and political ills is not supported by 95% plus of society, so therefore how do you propose that the necessary mechanism be put in place to facilitate this great social upheaval, an armed revolution? You certainly will not achieve it through the ballot box! Or are you all piss and wind, banging on a keyboard, with no real idea as to how this could be brought about.

The ball's in your court!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 5:04:54 AM
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p1405: I do not believe the vast majority of Australians are prepared for, or supportive of, like you, of something of the nature of the "Filipino Model"

Probably not, but most Australians are getting very sick of the types of people previously mentioned. The destroyers of Australian values.

P1405: your well held beliefs call for a dramatic realignment of society, that is extremism.

That's exactly what is being foisted on Australian Society by the likes of you now Paul. Your type need to be stopped.

p1405: You certainly will not achieve it through the ballot box!

True. Pity though.

p1405: no real idea as to how this could be brought about.

True, but one can only dream of a better world without those types. Ay.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 8:46:56 AM
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Paul 1405.

I default to referenceing the local environment of Byron Bay.

I'll run over it:

One of, if not now the highest incidence of violent crime on the North Coast of NSW.

A town that models itself on ignoring standard norms of decency.

A town overpopulated by itenerates and other loose agenda lay abouts, classified these days as Back Packers.

A town that encourages these types to visit, by working hard to officially match the Green Machine image of loose morality and the anti establishment model.
(Eg running around the town naked: fornicating in open public areas in broad daylight.: off their tits on drugs and piss, as a general rule of thumb, night and day!

This town is debauched.

Now, try to Police this situation with a workforce of normal middle class police,with a streak of decency, and bingo, one let's go (justifiably in my opinion) with a baton.

A town with a common presence of the riot squad, the drug squad and the mounted police as a continuing norm.

What is it that you can't see wrong with a situation in which the police are asked to remain composed and act normally within bounds?
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 10:12:44 AM
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Don't ask Victoria police o do a welfare check on someone unless you want them beaten up and capsicum sprayed.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/39705715/vic-police-accused-of-brutality-on-pensioner-in-shocking-cctv/

A disability pensioner was pinned down by several police officers, beaten with a baton and doused in capsicum spray in his Melbourne front yard.

Police had gone to visit the man, known as John, last September to do a mental health welfare check.

During the incident, an officer can be heard saying: "F*--ing idiot, do you like that? Do you like that? Smells good, doesn't it?"

John responds, "Oh my back, my back."

An officer films him being sprayed with the hose and John can be heard in the footage saying: "You happy?... how tough are youse (sic)?"

The incident left him "humiliated and degraded" according to Robinson Gill Lawyers, which is representing him.

He had not committed a crime and has not been charged, they said in a statement.

Fearing reprisal, he sought legal representation before making his complaint against police, the firm said.

The case is one of many showing the police complaints system is broken and requires an independent body to investigate police misconduct, it said.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 11:51:48 AM
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How many gutless coppers does it take to bash a defenceless mentally ill disabled pensioner? Seems in Victoria it takes six. These pigs (no better word for them) should be sacked and charged immediately!

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/04/03/06/28/cctv-victoria-police-beat-abuse-mentally-ill-disabled-pensioner
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 6:08:27 PM
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Where are the Forums Usual Suspects to defend the indefensible? Heading for the hills with their pants on fire. Report after report is now coming in of police instigated violent behaviour against innocent members of the public, People like the mentally impaired disable pensioner John who was bashed senseless, and then humiliated by a gang of rough Victorian coppers in the front yard of his home, all for their own pleasure. John had not committed any crime, nor was he suspected of committing a crime, he was simply in his own home, when six burly coppers turned up and went on a rampage of violence against the child like John. Do not try and exercise your legal rights when confronted by the coppers, you stand a very good chance of receiving a copper bashing for your trouble, just as John did.
Hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars is being wasted defending rough coppers against civil action for damages in the courts.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 7:34:12 PM
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Dear Paul,

The Victorian Police Insignia I believe is -"Uphold The
Right." Perhaps those six men don't know what that means.
I agree - they should be sacked immediately - and get
their just "desserts" in prison!

Bashing a disabled pensioner - disgusting!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 7:39:48 PM
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Paul,

"Report after report is now coming in of police instigated violent behaviour against innocent members of the public..."

A reference or two would be a courtesy so that people can look up these "Report after report...".
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 7:43:09 PM
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Is Mise - Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/victoria/a-violent-crime-a-brutal-police-response-20180327-p4z6k0.html

A violent crime, a brutal police response

It begins with a barrage of blows from a policeman to the head, neck and back of a young Sudanese-born Melbourne man.

Seven heavy punches land from the officer’s right fist and then, when his arm appears to tire, the policeman swaps to the left and lands two more.

Then he stands up. With his colleague still kneeling on the young man’s torso as he lies face down on tiles, the officer lines up the man’s head like a soccer ball. He kicks it, hard.

The CCTV vision of this 2016 arrest in the back of a Preston chemist shop has been uncovered by The Age as part of an ongoing investigation into the Victoria Police complaint system and which has included other disturbing CCTV vision and cases.

But personally the way these Sudanese have been bashing people and always in gangs of many onto usually one I have no sympathy on this low lifer.
They have terrorized Victoria and Queensland for too long, payback is a bitch.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 9:50:21 PM
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And another one.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/39725778/drunk-mans-head-slammed-into-wall-victoria-police/

A video of a third incident was released on Wednesday of an officer throwing a young, drunk man - who is handcuffed - into a metal door before another kicks him as he lays on the floor of a Bendigo police station in March 2015.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 9:54:38 PM
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Philip,

That's four in three years, not the numbers conjured up by "report after report", although they are, in fact, report after report; it's just that there is a long time between the reports.

Another aspect might be the percentage of arrests that are violent but in which the violence is unnecessary.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 10:11:45 PM
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Is Mise - What is your point, I never said there were lots of reports.
Posted by Philip S, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 11:01:54 PM
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Is Mise, try this for evidence;

"A Melbourne law firm is advising its clients not to make a complaint about Victoria Police to the state's anti-corruption watchdog.
One reason, lawyer Jeremy King told a parliamentary inquiry on Monday, is because more than 90 per cent of complaints made to the Independent Broad-Based Anti-Corruption Commission were handed back to police to investigate."

The law firm representing "John" in the recent well publicized police bashing, said on 'A Current Affair' last evening it has no less that 200 outstanding cases (the firm specializes in this type of action) on its books relating to police behaviour. They also said since the airing of the "John" bashing a number of police officer who do not want to be named for obvious reasons, made statements about other incidences of police violence they were aware of.

The vast majority of our police officers are fine upstanding people, who uphold the law. and do the right thing. However if you are such an officer and want to kiss your career goodbye simply make a complaint about a rough copper to the hierarchy within, and its goodbye job!

Issy, its one reason why I like you, you are the only one of the 'Usual Suspects' to at least return and post on this thread after the disgusting airing of the "John" case. Where are the DD's JB's OSU etc now....GONE!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 5 April 2018 4:37:44 AM
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Philip,

No, you didn't, but as you were responding to my observation about Pauls post...

Paul,

Thank you for the clarification, I wasn't aware of the law firms claims and as I don't watch"a Current Affair" I didn't know of this development.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 5 April 2018 8:01:48 AM
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Four Victoria Police officers suspended over alleged brutality.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/a/39751567/four-victoria-police-officers-suspended-over-alleged-brutality/

Head of Professional Standards Command, Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius, took the action on Friday after CCTV footage of the incidents was made public earlier in the week.

Three officers have been suspended over a September 2017 incident in which a disability pensioner was pinned down, beaten with a baton, capsicum sprayed, then hosed down in his Preston front yard.

Another officer has been suspended over the treatment of a man who held up a Preston pharmacy in February 2016 and was kicked and stomped on while handcuffed.

A fifth officer has been reassigned after a March 2015 incident at Bendigo, where an arrested man was thrown into a metal door at the police station.
Posted by Philip S, Friday, 6 April 2018 6:08:05 PM
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Reading the transcript of evidence put before the LECC investigating the Byron Bay incident, and the methodical questioning of those involved by Council assisting, Mr Rowles, I would say that its not looking good for the coppers involved. Particularly for Officer E. But police seem to live a charmed life when it comes to being investigated for misconduct.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 6 April 2018 10:40:18 PM
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As one who has been rather critical of police heavy handedness with their excessive and unnecessary use of force, even ruffling a few feathers with a bit of colourful language, for that I apologise particularly to o sung wu, but I stand by the content of those comments.
I also think its appropriate to heap some praise on police, when unfortunately they have to resort to justified violence in the execution of their duty. Such an incident took place on a crowded Sydney public bus yesterday afternoon. The ABC report shows to my satisfaction that the police involved acted appropriately by tasering this person, and then arresting him.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-19/nsw-police-taser-man-on-bus-in-sydney/9677520

p/s One of my sons is a pubic bus driver in Sydney, and he can commiserate with the driver involved. Bad behaviour by passengers is not uncommon.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 20 April 2018 4:46:57 AM
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