From a Greens PDF, at:
http://greens.org.au/sites/greens.org.au/files/Electric%20vehicles.pdf

"The Greens are driving the transition from petroleum to
electric vehicles, by providing incentives for Australian
consumers, businesses and government to take up clean
electric vehicle technologies. As a core element of our plan for
a clean transport mix, EVs powered by renewables and battery
storage will form a key part of our pollution-free future."

They go on to state,

" KEY POINTS
The Greens will help to get 31,000 more electric vehicles on the
road by 2021 and 330 more charging stations around the
country by:
Funding free registration for the first five years after
purchase of a fully electric vehicle
Providing $151 million in grants to support local
governments, state governments and car park
operators to install electric vehicle charging
infrastructure
Providing $50 million in grants to support government
and non-government organisations to meet the gap
between the cost on electric vehicle and a conventional
vehicle
Increasing the luxury car tax to 50% for conventional
fossil fuel vehicles over $100,000 to drive consumer
choices towards electric vehicles
Including firms involved in electric vehicle
manufacturing in the government’s Automotive
Transformation Scheme to grow the jobs and skills in
the new electric vehicle industry."

The above reads as if the Greens are in power, whereas the reality is that they will be a bad memory by 2030; also their proofreading leaves a bit to be desired.

The Greens can rave as much as they like about anything they like. They are a tiny minority and getting smaller. They will never get the opportunity to put their mad ideas into practice.

Ttbn

The Greens have a disproportionate influence on political outcomes, as the vanguard of the left-think.

Have you forgotten ssm already?

Their main concern is reengineering society towards a turpitude of immorality: They simply have a need to be represented in the places most suited to achieve this,eg schools, and other places of influence over children's minds!

It's not about winning seats at all.

dd,

Both Liberal and Labor wanted SSM.

Firstly, what a load of rubbish "Their main concern is reengineering society towards a turpitude of immorality".

Issy, all political parties couch their policies in those terms, including your bunch of lunatics The Shooters and Hooters Party, DD's lunatics the One Nation Nongs, and ttbn's favorite lunatics, the Corny Banana Party. All smaller parties than The Greens.

p/s; A very good and sensible policy in my view, progressive, sustainable, yes good policy. What's the latest from the Shooters and Hooters; more hoons in their gas guzzling 4WD's, rampaging through the bush, on one of their drunken rampages, shooting up a storm, destroying the environment. More bad policy.

Paul,

"Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 5:21:17 AM"

Get up on the wrong side of the pallet this morn?

Paul,

"Issy, all political parties couch their policies in those terms..."

No, they don't; the SF&F do not do so and you saying that they do is indicative of, at best, unthinking bias or, at worst, Green lying.
http://www.shootersfishersandfarmers.org.au/nsw_policies

The Greens sprout about reducing pollution but that didn't stop Rhiannon going on a taxpayer funded jaunt around Europe nor does it stop Di Nasty from flying to and from Canberra; all that jet fuel pollution!!

Ok paul1405, if the Greens are so hell bent on reducing CO2 emissions how about this for an idea. Just one of my 7 Pages of My Think Tank Ideas.

The cessation of the manufacturing of all carbonated drinks in Australia as Carbonated Drinks adds 653.2 Metric Tonnes plus to Australia's Carbon footprint. (23 million people (avg.) by one can, (28.4g of CO2) per day, per person.) I think that works out. Some people drink more, some less. All a reasonable estimate.

The figure is most probably much higher than this in reality. This adds to Australia’s Carbon Footprint.

Extend that across the Worlds 9,000,000,000,000 people drinking at least 1 drinks per day. Some people drink more, some less. That makes 9,000,000,000 metric Tons per day or 328,725,000,000 Metric Tonnes per year of CO2 going into the Atmosphere from an artificial source. What are or Greenies doing about this? Nothing, disgraceful.

Australia's share from Aerated drinks World wide is .1111%, but still.

I've never seen a Demonstration against Aerated Drinks.

But let's extend that a bit. There are lots of places where CO2 is purposely vented to the Atmosphere. I'm a Boilermaker, amoungt other things, I use a Mig Welder. In order to keep Oxygen from destroying the Weld I float the Weld Puddle in CO2. Now when I worked in the Railways Workshop, our shop alone would go through about 30 large bottles of CO2 a week. Plus other exotic Gasses like Argon for Aluminum etc. Now in Townsville alone there were three Repair Workshops, ours would have used the least. So that's about 110 large CO2 Bottles a week. Now counting the other Workshops, The Copper Refinery, the Nickle Smelter, The Zink Smelter about 20 private Engineering works, Plus, plus, plus. How much CO2 is really vented into the Atmosphere by ordinary Industry?
Cont.

Cont.

I'd say Coal Fired Power Stations are at the bottom of the list. But they are an easy target. Ay.

The problem is that Electric Vehicles would be at the 1918 era compared to ordinary cars now-a-days don't you think? By 2030 that would move up to the 1950's I'd say. A long way to go. Maybe we need another War to kick things along. Ay.

Jayb,
I think you've overestimated the amount of CO2 in soft drinks by an order of magnitude. But even if you haven't, it makes no difference, as it, and indeed the CO2 in MIG welding, is the result of "carbon capture" from other processes (such as brewing) and from freezing it out of the air (as a byproduct of argon extraction).

The problem isn't returning recently captured CO2 to the atmosphere; it's adding the huge additional amount that's the result of combusting carbon that's been out of the atmosphere for a long time (usually millions of years) to produce energy (that is usually producible without resorting to burning fossil fuels).

Your assumption that electric vehicles are still at the 1918 era is also completely wrong. EVs were at that stage in 1918; they'd been competitive with petrol cars until just before then. And just because they'd lost their competitive edge doesn't mean technological development stopped. There have been huge advances at the component level, and more recently at the systems level as well.

Aidan: I think you've overestimated the amount of CO2 in soft drinks by an order of magnitude.

That is information I got off the side of a Coke Can.

As for Electric Vehicles. I'm driving to Townsville for a 1 RAR Reunion on the 12 of May. It will take me 1.5 Tanks of Diesel. That's 100 Lt of Diesel, at $1.40 a litre. That's $140. with only one stop for fuel before Townsville. Usually Carmila on the way up & Gin Gin on the way home. (A Sleepover at BP Mac's Stopover for Tea.) Now with Battery Power, I be stopping every 60 k's for an hour to recharge. I'll be towing a Caravan so I might not make 60k's. That'd be fun. Ay.

Aidan,

You're right and electric vehicles are at the moment right up in 2018.
The very latest are marvels of technology and if I could afford one then I'd have one right now.

The difference that I have with the Greens is that I don't believe in compulsion, if electric cars are good (and they are) then they will take their place in the market.
If they are better (and they are for some uses) then they will prevail in those spheres.

The 1918 ones were better cars than their petrol or steam rivals except for range.

I once had the pleasure of a short trip in a 1912 Detroit Electric whose owner used it for everyday transport from somewhere around Mascot to the City and back; I presume that he topped up the charge during the day.
It was unbelievably quiet, rode well, had more than adequate braking power and the visibility was brilliant, one could look over the tops of most cars!

Issy, we are still on DS time in NSW, You can't even get the time right. Try 6.21am, I'm usually up before four, an hours walk. At what time does Nursey wake the old folks at your institution, for your daily laxative and bowl of gruel, taken through a straw, due to a lack of you know what?

JayB, say its not true, you don't have another 6 pages of that unadulterated waffle do you? Please say its not true, or at least promise never to post it on the forum for others such as myself, who might inadvertently read it, and therefore waste valuable time that could be used more constructively, like picking our noses, or other parts of our anatomy.

Paul,

"Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 6:57:56 PM"

That's the time that comes up on my computer; maybe I should change something?

A bit late in the year now though!!

//Jayb,
I think you've overestimated the amount of CO2 in soft drinks by an order of magnitude.//

Oh well, at least it's better than the 3 orders of magnitude by which he overestimated the world's population:

//Extend that across the Worlds 9,000,000,000,000 people//

9 x 10^12? Jesus, no wonder Dick Smith is so worked up ;)

Still using a slide rule, Jayb? I've been told that order of magnitude errors are really easy to make when using slide rules.

//Aidan: I think you've overestimated the amount of CO2 in soft drinks by an order of magnitude.

That is information I got off the side of a Coke Can.//

No, it isn't. Coke cans don't list CO2 as an ingredient, they list carbonated water - and they don't specify quantities in the ingredient list. The only specified quantities will be found in the nutrition panel, which doesn't include CO2 because it is not traditionally considered to be nourishing for mammals. Are you sure you haven't got carbon dioxide confused with carbohydrates?

Should JayB's 9,000,000,000,000 trillion billion people all fart at the same time, including JayB himself, give each one will blast out a cubic meter of highly flammable fart gas, except JayB who will pump out 47 cubic meters, on his own, because he is full of it! Should there be a naked flames on top of Mount Fujiyama at that time. The resultant explosion of said gas would see 9,000,000,000,000 trillion billion people, 9,000,000,000,000 trillion billion people, I said that, blasted into the comic wilderness! Except for JayB himself who will continue to orbit somewhere beyond the realm of Pluto.

TL:Oh well, at least it's better than the 3 orders of magnitude by which he overestimated the world's population:

A billion is a number with two distinct definitions:
1,000,000,000, i.e. one thousand million, or 109 (ten to the ninth power), as defined on the short scale. This is now generally the meaning in both British and American English.[1][2]
1,000,000,000,000, i.e. one million million, or 10^12 (ten to the twelfth power), as defined on the long scale. This is one thousand times larger than the short scale billion, and equivalent to the short scale trillion.
American English always uses the short scale definition but British English has employed both versions.

10^12 when I went to School. I suppose it's what Scale you are using.

Therefore, using the short Scale; 328,725,000 Mt. Still a huge amount.
To me that 900 million, but never mind.

Hey! I know the Greens can used all the money they waste protesting about everything & build huge containers, then they can pull the CO2 from the Atmosphere & store it into the Containers, thereby saving the World. Yea!

Paul1405: say its not true, you don't have another 6 pages of that unadulterated waffle do you?

Yes hears on Politics;
9. When a Budget is presented it must be presented as a one-year increment, not as “$xxx amount over 10 years” as that figure will change in the very next Budget. Most people are not politically savvy enough & mistakenly believe that the Government is spending that amount every year for 10 years. Not forgetting that Party could be out of Government in the next Election.

& one more;
1. Businesses that employ more than 5 women with children must provide Childcare crèches at the workplace free of charge. Happier employees make better workers. A number of Small Business can band together to provide a communal Crèche.

Are you forming the JB Party, do you have the 500 required members yet? What is your policy on the teaching of mathematics?

//Are you forming the JB Party, do you have the 500 required members yet?//

Due to his difficulties with orders of magnitude, JB thought he only required 5 members to register his party. And he still couldn't get those.

//What is your policy on the teaching of mathematics?//

I believe he wishes to legislate that pi is exactly equal to 3.2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFNjA9LOPsg

TL: //What is your policy on the teaching of mathematics?//

1. Schooling

1. All Students are to have static classrooms. Move the Teacher, not the Student. This would reduce truancy. At present Students are wandering around in the streets & in Shopping Centres saying they are on a “Free Period.”

2. Students are not to have Free Periods. These periods where the children are not in a class must be used to tutor the student in a subject in which the student is failing. They must not be allowed to wander around town, as happens now. Some use the time to break into houses. I caught a gang of 13 girls from the local High School recently breaking into houses. Now my house regularly gets rocked & I have been threatened by parents for dobbing them in.

3. Trade Training to be mandatory for all students in line with their aptitude. A change from pushing University Education to pushing Trades such as Building, Electrical, Electronics & Mechanical Trades.

4. Apprentices must be paid a decent liveable wage in Training.

5. More Adult Apprenticeships must be made available for older workers. They are easier to teach & more enthusiastic about learning & TAFE teachers love training them. I did an Adult Engineering Trade (Mechanical) along with 60 others.

6. Lower Fees for the training of Engineers, Industrial Chemists, Scientists, Doctors, Specialists, Surgeons & Dentists in Universities.

7. Higher Fees on Arts & Social Feel Good Courses.

8. Children are taught their Rights at school. They must also be taught their behavioural Responsibilities as well. This area is neglected. Troublesome students must attend special classes that teach them their Responsibilities & to be respectful of others Rights. That doesn’t mean they go fishing or to Theme Parks, etc, as they do now.

Cont

cont.

9. Training on expected behaviour standards & the Australian way of life, Australian Culture & hygiene for all immigrants (especially immigrants from the Middle East.) Training in that they have to accept that is different to where they have come from & they cannot demand that Australians have to change to suit them.

10. Training for Aboriginals on remote communities in the expected standard of cleanliness, hygiene & expected maintenance of their Government provided homes. Three strikes & you’re out after training. Their Rent is to go towards owning that home.

11. Compulsory Training for those people in Australian communities that trash Government & Rental Housing. Three strikes & you’re out after training.

12. Children in High Schools must do courses on how to run & implement a Domestic Budget & How to be a Responsible Parent as part of their schooling.

13. Every Government building in Australia should be covered with Solar Panels, have Solar Hot Water connected & rain water tanks. At least every new Government building constructed must be made environmentally self sufficient as much as possible. This could be paid for by any Carbon Tax or whatever is gets renamed to or by the money saved from ending AID to Countries that hate Western Countries.

Good enough for you TL.

Worth a read,
http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive

//1. Schooling//

Brilliant, I can see your non-existent party winning heaps of votes with detailed policies like that.

//1. All Students are to have static classrooms. Move the Teacher, not the Student.//

A second 1... you're not instilling me with great confidence in your novel approach to teaching mathematics.

And as for the idea of static classrooms with moving teachers... that works great for primary schools. It's useless for high schools, because if first period is English you just need desks and a whiteboard, and that's fine if second period is maths... but it's a bit of a bugger when 3rd period is science, and you need to install lab stations complete with plumbing and gas lines for bunsen's, and a fume hood with a working extractor fan, and a safety shower and eyewash station, all in the break between periods. Then you have to move it all out to make room for lathes and and jigsaws and disc sanders when they have woodwork the following period, only to have to move all of that to make room for the kitchen when they have cooking (or whatever fancy name they've given it these days), and finally have to move all of that to make room for a gymnasium when they have P.E.

There's a reason students move between classes in high schools. It's because it's impossible to rearrange the furniture as required for each lesson within the time constraints of a school day.

//At present Students are wandering around in the streets & in Shopping Centres saying they are on a “Free Period.”//

Oh no! Shock horror! Children frequenting shopping centres... it's a sign of the End Times if ever there was one. Everybody knows children should be not heard and not seen either, they should be chained up in the basement like any responsible parent would do.

//saying they are on a “Free Period.”//

They probably are on a free period. Such things are not unheard of.

//Students are not to have Free Periods. These periods where the children are not in a class must be used to tutor the student in a subject in which the student is failing.//

What if they're not failing anything? Are the clever kids who do well in class still allowed free periods?

And who's going to be doing this tutoring? When I had free periods at school, it was usually because they were short-staffed: the teacher we were meant to have was off sick and they hadn't been able to find a casual replacement. If you pull a teacher off another class to tutor the ones with a free period, then the class that that teacher should have been teaching gets the free period instead... back to square one. A lot of schools can't afford basic resources like textbooks. Where are they supposed to find the money to hire extra teaching staff?

//They must not be allowed to wander around town, as happens now.//

Most schools don't allow it; they have a duty of care to their students and if anything dire should happen to little Johnny whilst he's off school grounds unsupervised during school hours, they'd doubtless be in deep excrement.

//Trade Training to be mandatory for all students in line with their aptitude.//

Mandatory? Why? How is learning the finer points of fitting & turning or carpentry going to help somebody who wants to become a doctor or an I.T. consultant? Forcing students to study subjects that they don't enjoy, that they can't see the point of, and which will not assist them in their future career is counter-productive and a waste of resources.

//A change from pushing University Education to pushing Trades such as Building, Electrical, Electronics & Mechanical Trades.//

Well that's fine, but some of them will still want to go to Uni, and we will still need doctors. Maybe let the kids decide for themselves, eh?

//4. Apprentices must be paid a decent liveable wage in Training.//

Apprentices forego wages to cover the cost of their training. Are you saying they shouldn't have to pay for their education and the Government should pick up the cost? Jesus, Gough, these costs are starting to blow out a bit.

//6. Lower Fees for the training of Engineers, Industrial Chemists, Scientists, Doctors, Specialists, Surgeons & Dentists in Universities.//

Good idea. Especially for the chemists. Not that I'm biased or anything. But these costs just keep mounting up, and you've not explained how we're going to pay for it all.

I vote for holding Gina Rinehart upside down over a bucket and shaking her by the ankles.

//7. Higher Fees on Arts & Social Feel Good Courses.//

Oh, so that's how we're going to cover all these wildly extravagant costs... I fear you've rather overestimated the popularity of Arts Degrees there.

//8-10//

I can see we're moving away from Education policy to Re-Education Camp policy. And this is why nobody wants to join Jayb's party.

//12. Children in High Schools must do courses on how to run & implement a Domestic Budget//

Actually, that is a good idea.

//& How to be a Responsible Parent as part of their schooling.//

Even those that don't intend to have children? More pointless courses with which to waste scarce resources... not doing too well so far, Jayb.

//13. Every Government building in Australia should be covered with Solar Panels...//

What does this have to do with education policy?

//Good enough for you TL.//

Good enough for you TL, question mark.

So let's see... I make that 3 out of a possible 15 marks. F-, and see me after class to discuss your lack of progress and your attitude.

Thank you TL. This is just what I'm after. Discussion on the points. Some of the points are from discussions with other people & I've included them. The only solution to education ever put forward is by Academics who don't really have a clue about what industry really needs by way of what children are taught in schools. Thanks again even though it was done in a contemptible manner. I appreciate your input.

Now if we could have this discussion on the realities of Alternate Energy that would be great. I, for one, are a great believer in Alternate Energy but I can see the Pro's & Cons at the Present time. My electricity Bill is down by half, even running all my machinery & welder.

The price of Alternate Energy is still way too high. The price is artificially high for anything with ECO on it. Energy, Cars, Lighting even food. The ECO people are stifling the uptake of Alternate Energy themselves by looking to make a "quick buck." I've heard that some people buy speckled fruit & veggies from the farmers & sell them at Markets as ECO fruit & veggies at twice the price.

Leaving aside the Coal problem. The Energy suppliers don't want to let go of their Golden Goose. That's a given. The Greenies want to close down everything NOW & switch to Alternate Energy. The CEO's aren't going to let go of their million dollar plus Salaries & the Greenies just aren't realistic. There-in lies the problem.

I have Solar everywhere even in my Caravan. 300W, 3 Deep Cell Batteries & an 8000W converter. Enough to keep everything running for two weeks without sunshine. No Gas. I recycle (repurpose) everything. Even the Trees in the Park opposite my home. I put them through a Bush Mill & use the Timber. I raid the Bins at New Home sites for materials, Pink Bats, Timber, Bricks, PVC piping, Electric Cable etc. I always get permission. My neighbour benefits.

See, I'm not as bigger AH as you think. Ay.

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-drive
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 30 March 2018 10:16:33 PM

Priced at $35k in basic form, it costs half as much as its bigger Model S brother And with a range of 310 miles, a 0-60mph time of 5.1 seconds and seating for five, it could be the car that starts the charge from internal combustion to EVs in the mass market

At $A74K for a $A20 car just because it's Electric with reduced performance. Not yet.

like the rest of the Tesla range, the Model 3 features the Autopilot system,

Going by the latest It not really ready yet.

UK has the Model 3 weighing in at a starting price of £31k.

$A65K for an $A18K car. Not yet. Anything with ECO in front of it & the price triples+. There-in lies the problem.

The technology is great but the price is not, even on the second-hand market the prices are above the cost of a comparable IC car.

Finally we are starting to see through the BS and the hype. The greens are not a political party and will never be. They conned their way into the political scene by saying all these wonderful things that the un-informed fools wanted to hear. Not one of these people actually researched or bulked up on the true story behind renewables. They are making money from this and that's what it's all about. As for EV's. They are not a viable alternative, at least not yet. They have a long way to go. Unless ALL the factors are as good as or better than what we have currently, forget it, not worth the look in. As I have always said; If I have to pay 3 to 4 times the price of current cars, travel a third or a quarter the distance, take many times longer to re-fuel, and then to top it off, have to spend, around ten thousand dollars to replace the battery pack after ten years or so, forget it! Don't call me till all these factors have been brought back into reasonable and acceptable levels to the average guy, not some moron who works for a company that buys him a car for free. And before all you green whackers begin knocking my statement, where the hell are you going to get all this reliable, continual, free power from? Not the sun, and even if it is stored in batteries, think about what goes into making batteries. No, just go away and stop making out you lot are even viable to discuss renewables, let alone promote them. I have to correct one of the previous commentors. The cars that are 'killing' people might be electric but it's this stupid autonomous crap that is killing people. Another of my points has been that AV's cannot work in a variable environment. You cannot program a computer to reckognise every change in the surrounding environment as it moves along. It will only work in a stable and fixed environment, as in large factories, delivering parts along predetermined routes and functions.

altrav: Finally we are starting to see through the BS and the hype

Yep. Go along with everything you said there.