"Australian Federal Police Caught Out With Fake News

By Michael Gibson | 14 March 2018

From the minute the claim was made that the AFP had made a 5600 firearm haul, firearm owners were calling fake news.

The SSAA Legislative Action department exposed exaggerated gun seizure claims made by the Australian Federal Police and former Justice Minister Michael Keenan in June of 2017, sending a powerful reminder that we will not tolerate misinformation being spread about firearms.

AFP commissioner Andrew Colvin finally confirmed to Senator David Leyonhjelm last month, in the presence of SSAA-LA representatives, that the majority of the 5600 guns allegedly seized (and announced twice, adding further confusion) were mainly parts or frames. Just six were fully operational guns. Most were seized in America.

But what came as a shock to the SSAA, was the revelation that the AFP does not distinguish between a firearm and a firearm part: a firearm part is recorded as a functioning firearm. “In total, that operation (Operation Ironsight) resulted in the seizure of 5088 firearms, including parts – we don’t necessarily distinguish between a full firearm and a part,” Mr Colvin said. This raises concerns about the level of data the AFP is collating and offers insight into why the 5600 figure claim was outrageously overstated.

See the full article at SSAA ."
http://www.sportingshooter.com.au/latest/australian-federal-police-caught-out-with-fake-news

One is left wondering just which other Government Departments are also imaginative in their public utterances?

Dear Is Mise,

Bloody dreadful articles in those links but leaving that aside it seems you are contending that instead of a flood of imported firearms entering the country the criminal classes would appear to be arming themselves with mainly domestic firearms acquired through theft or the black market in non-surrendered weapons.

Happy to run with that.

Steele,

The subject matter, in this case guns, is completely immaterial; what's material is that a Government Department, this time the Federal Police have lied to the Minister and to their employers, the general public.

Is this a one off aberration or does it go on all the time; how many other departments are justifying their existence by lies?

Quote - "Is this a one off aberration or does it go on all the time"

Anyone want to bet the Victoria police are doing creative bookkeeping with the crime figures they claim are going down.

Yep, I'd say most government departments have some members attending creative writing courses at our finest universities.

Probably not as many as they would like though I expect. Most of the courses would be almost fully subscribed by members of the Greens, along with the CSIRO & the Bureau of Meteorology.

//The subject matter, in this case guns, is completely immaterial; what's material is that a Government Department, this time the Federal Police have lied to the Minister//

Well they're not the only ones telling porkies, are they? Did anybody read the full article? This was the last sentence:

"We are willing and ready to provide advice and feedback about sensible, fair and evidence-based firearms laws."

Sensible, fair and evidence-based advice about firearm laws from these nutters? Yeah, sure fellas, and I'm the Queen of Sheba.

The only ones who tell the truth according to some,
are the law-abiding, gun owning, members of the
shooters clubs and associations - who will continue
to defend their right to bear arms - no matter what.
And that's not fake news.

Toni,

Your Majesty!!

Foxy,

Almost right, and that's an improvement.

Licensed Australian Firearm Owners (LAFOs for short) are indeed a cut above the rest, for they are rusted by their Government and have been issued with proof.

Can you say the same for yourself?.

Is Mise,

Many of us are "trusted by the Government" to a certain extent.
Many of us have been issued with various "proofs" be it to
bear arms, drive cars, practice our professions, and so on.
That however does not mean that we do those things well or
that we deserve that recognition.

Personally I'd trust nothing that's emanated from any Spokesman for the Australia's 'Plastic Police Force' The fact their Commissioner Andrew COLVIN, who's apparently a nice, well qualified bloke together with his managerial MBA from Harvard. What the (AFP) really needs, is someone who's completely across Federal Criminal Investigation; and from what I've heard of his proficiency and aptitude in this regard, it's seriously flawed. He's left the 'Plastic Police' with such low levels of morale, it's essentially just bumping quietly along the bottom.

Regrettably he and his organisation are the laughing stock of law-enforcement. It pains me greatly to say this because; in some areas of drug importation, in company with 'Border Force' they're doing quite well. Not so with the illicit import of all manner of F/A's.

Also a number of really good detectives I've worked with, were enticed across (laterally) with false promises of higher rank, salaries and benefits. Moreover he seems to be trying hard to feminise the job by favouring females over males. I don't have a problem with that; provided it's based on merit and merit alone.

The AFP are an amalgam of; the former C'Wealth Police; ACT Police; and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. The former head of each, were all vying hard for the top job of Commissioner. None of them got it, wisely it was given to an Englishman, Sir Colin Woods.

//Toni,

Your Majesty!!//

What's the go with all these people who don't understand sarcasm these days? What on earth are they teaching them in these schools?

//Licensed Australian Firearm Owners (LAFOs for short) are indeed a cut above the rest//

And apparently, a bunch of vain, pretentious, self-congratulatory w4nkers. Gosh, you guys must be fun at parties [sarcasm].

Dear Is Mise,

You wrote;

“The subject matter, in this case guns, is completely immaterial; what's material is that a Government Department, this time the Federal Police have lied to the Minister and to their employers, the general public.”

No they haven't you clown. Even I have read the reports about imported weapons being disassembled in order to make them easier to pass through customs and the police have been very up front about this even a year ago;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-04/3d-printing,-mail-system-being-used-to-make-illegal-firearms/8161388

Sure there is an issue if there is double counting going on for instance counting barrels and frames for the same syndicate separately however they are perfectly justified in saying confiscation of either prevents those weapons hitting the streets.

Last week we had a small country town near us experience someone shooting at another couple with a handgun. An acquaintance who has lived there his entire life can not recall this having occurred in the 70 odd years he has resided there.

We have a gun culture pervading our society and it is selfish people like yourself who are enabling it. At this rate another mass shooting within the next 5 years is likely and a school shooting within 5 more. It is people like you who should be held to account if and when that happens. I am so over people like yourself putting us all, including our school kids in danger. You need to stop and think about what you are doing.

Toni,

Your Majesty, you seem to have missed the sarcasm.

Steele,

"Sure there is an issue if there is double counting going on for instance counting barrels and frames for the same syndicate separately however they are perfectly justified in saying confiscation of either prevents those weapons hitting the streets."

Be that as it may, 5,600 down to 6 is pretty creative accounting.

"Last week we had a small country town near us experience someone shooting at another couple with a handgun. An acquaintance who has lived there his entire life can not recall this having occurred in the 70 odd years he has resided there."

Reference, please?
Was the pistol registered?
Was the firer licenced?

All relevant if we are to evaluate your claim.

Dear Is Mise,

You asked;

Was the pistol registered?
Was the firer licenced?

Don't know as the shooter has not been found. The shots were fired at a man and a woman in a parked stolen car.

But what does that have to do with anything. A growing gun culture in this country is driving the arming of our criminals.

Under your prescription only fully functioning firearms are to be counted? Don't be an idiot. It is not a reduction from 5,000 to 6 unless you want to ignore the fact that these weapons are being disassembled to smuggle them into the country. That might be convenient for your propaganda or spin but it is totally ludicrous.

Go find some real news to get fired up about.

Steele, surly you would rather die from a bullet fired by a registered 'LOG', short for Lunatic Operating Gunnie, who after all, and according to Issy. is a "rusted" old fart who is a cut above the rest of us. In that way we can engrave the LOG's licence number on your headstone. It is important to us, but I don't know how you feel about it? (sarcasm just for Issey's edification)

We should all feel grateful, and rest assured. knowing that the good folk of the SSAA Legislative Department (they have their own department you know) are working tirelessly deep down in the basement under Gunnie HQ, located inside Issy's 'Burgers and Bullets' franchise in the little hamlet of Numskull. These good folks, LOG's one and all, spend 24/7 fact checking, dissemination all the non pro gunnie nonsense and presenting the true facts as presented by the not so liberal, no so democratic, and well cashed up, thanks to lots of gunnie money, Senator Dumbo Dave.

Nothing to do with this thread. People in glass houses should not throw stones, Issy what is the use of the word "rusted", What does oxidized people have to do with the Federal government? Get yourself a dictionary, get yourself a spell checker! Now we are even.

//Toni,

Your Majesty//

OK, it appears I have been in error. I thought you a reasonably intelligent bloke except for your blindspot when it comes to firearms. Apparently you're just a bit slow in general.

See, when somebody makes a statement that is clearly nonsense on stilts, e.g. 'That Peter Dutton fella is a nice chap' and somebody follows it up with 'Yeah, right, and I'm [insert thing that they clearly aren't]' then that is a way of sarcastically disputing the original claim. So if somebody says 'Commercial kangaroo harvesting is unsustainable and will lead to the rapid demise of wild kangaroo populations' somebody might follow it up with 'Sure mate, and I'm the Pope'. Now chances are that person is not the Pope. There can only ever be one Pope at a time (any extras are Antipopes), and we've already got one. So unless the person saying 'Sure mate, and I'm the Pope' is Pope Francis (which is unlikely), then that statement is false. They are not the Pope. They are drawing a comparison between the absurdity of them being the Pope and the absurdity of believing that wild roos are on the brink of extinction.

There is no country called 'Sheba'. It's possible there never was, but if it did exist it was long before I was born. It's logically impossible for me to be the monarch of a country that doesn't exist. It's also impossible for me to be the female monarch (i.e. Queen) when I'm male - I'd be King of Sheba if there was actually a Sheba and I was actually its monarch.

So you see, I wasn't actually declaring myself to be the Queen of Sheba. Note that I didn't say 'I'm the Queen of Sheba', I said 'Yeah, sure fellas, and I'm the Queen of Sheba.' - the 'Yeah, sure fellas, and...' is a way of indicating that the truth of that statement is contingent on the previous statement. Your references to me as 'Your Majesty' indicate that the meaning of my statement about being the Queen of Sheba has gone right over your head. I wasn't trying to put on airs and graces by awarding myself a title to which I am not entitled, a fact that you don't seem to have managed to grasp. I was drawing a comparison between the absurdity of myself being the (possibly entirely fictional) female monarch of a nation that - if it ever existed - certainly doesn't exist anymore, and the obvious absurdity of the notion of gun nuts being willing to provide advice about sensible, fair and evidence-based firearms laws. When have gun nuts ever done that before?

Today's public frog vivisection is proudly supported by Is Mise's alma mater, the Midvale School for the Gifted.

http://pics.me.me/24-86-pull-midvale-school-for-the-gifted-30494358.png

Toni, if you are not the Queen of Sheba, which I did for a moment believe you were, although I had an uncle Bert, he drove a truck. Sorry I digress, uncle Bert would often exclaim "by crikey, I must be the Queen of Sheba!". Now I did believe for many years uncle Bert was in fact the Queen of Sheba. As uncle had no legitimate children, although he was quite the ladies man, in his stubbies and blue single, boots and footy socks, beer belly budging, gray hair thinning, front teeth missing, two days of stubble on his queenly face, he exuded a certain air of regalness, that other family members, such as myself, could only aspire to, Prince Charles excluded.
Now if you are not the Queen of Sheeba, and since uncle Bert has passed on, that means I'm still in with a chance. Yes?

Oh, and just to clear up that other bit of sarcasm I employed for you Is Mise - wouldn't want you getting any more confused than you already are. When I said this before:

//Gosh, you guys must be fun at parties [sarcasm].//

I indicated it was sarcasm is to denote the fact that I don't really believe you guys would be fun at parties at all. Quite the reverse, in fact. Nobody wants to get stuck talking to a w4nker who is full of themself whilst attending a party, especially if said w4nker has nothing to be full of themself about and is just a loser with delusions of adequacy.

Foxy,

"Many of us are "trusted by the Government" to a certain extent.
Many of us have been issued with various "proofs" be it to
bear arms, drive cars, practice our professions, and so on.
That however does not mean that we do those things well or
that we deserve that recognition."

But you are not trusted with rapid firing weapons that can kill at 1,000 yards, and therein lies the difference.

Toni,

I seem to have got up your nose a wee bit.

Steele,

Do you have any objection to the authorities saying that they intercepted 6 firearms and 5,594 firearm parts, which consisted of.... and that most of these parts were intercepted in the US and that they were not intercepted by the relevant people in Australia?

To claim that most of the parts were intercepted in Australia is an outright lie.

The illicit importation of F/A's or F/A parts is a continuing scourge on Border Force and police per se. The last thing we need here in OZ, is more illicit guns on our streets, especially with these nutters roaming around wishing to do us harm, or harm to the entire structure of Western Society as a whole.

I've heard a whisper (unable to confirm, categorically) that the existing NSW Cabinet is keen to further restrict certain categories of F/A's from being licensed. Furthermore, there are those from the 'Left' of the Party, are even more enthusiastic to further reduce certain classes of Lever Action from the current list of permissible Shotguns, due to their ability for 'rapid fire' which they claim is just as 'quick' as cycling with the Remington 870P.

I'll not enter the argument over this precise question, as I've said earlier I participated in the FBI Tactical Shotgun Instructors Course with the Bureau, thus I have my own personal views on the topic?

What I can share with you, in a broad sense - if it's at all possible, both major Party's wish to tighten up the F/A laws; (i) that which is currently available, & thus licensable to the public; & (ii) tightening the current licensing requirements altogether.

In my opinion there are more than a wide enough variety, of differing F/A's available to, gratify or assuage the shooter now. Without allowing, many more divergent models into the market place. After all, guns have only one purpose, to kill.

Apparently, neither of our major Party's have any sort of appetite to 'ease up' on their tougher stance on Firearms, and those licensed to possess them. This is without doubt, a direct 'flow on' effect of what's currently transpiring in some High Schools in the United States. There's little doubt, neither Party wish another Port Arthur, or a Sandy Hook Elementary School, on their watch. And can you blame them?

Is Mise,

Utter bollocks.

Just because you have a licence to carry a gun,
does not make you "trustworthy." The same as having
a licence for anything else - such as driving a car,
being able to get married, or being able to practice
a chosen profession.

You're talking nonsense.

Foxy,

It certainly doesn't make one untrustworthy.

Why don't you apply for a licence and see just how trustworthy your Government considers you?

My bet is that you couldn't qualify.

//Toni,

I seem to have got up your nose a wee bit.//

Oh, I wouldn't say I was annoyed. Did I sound annoyed? I usually swear more when I'm annoyed. I'm pretty sure I wasn't annoyed, as such. More dumbfounded than anything. Sarcasm has never seemed that complicated to me, most people don't seem to struggle with it at all and can even infer obvious sarcasm without the use of sarcasm indicators.

Still, it's a funny a world. Apparently there's about a third of the adult population that struggle with basic maths. I'm glad I'm in the other 50% ;)

Is Mise,

It certainly does not make you trustworthy.

That's why gun laws exist.

To save lives.

The only FAKE NEWS where guns are concerned comes from the Gun Lobby. In Australia the Gun Lobby is the local chapter of the NRA, calling itself the SSAA, but in fact the SSAA is well known to be simply a front organization controlled and financed by the US parent, the NRA. This mob will say and do anything that they believe will help proliferate uncontrolled guns in society. Shameful behavior by their forum spokesperson, the rusty old Is Mise. Issy are you a leader in this clandestine organisation, or simply a foot solider?

Paul,

Care to back up your allegations with a reference or three to some facts?

You and the rest of the Greens are great on speculation but loath to provide facts.

Foxy,

Poor dear, doesn't your Government trust you?

Paul,

To help you in your quest here's a link to the NRA of Australia
http://www.nraa.com.au/

perhaps they can help you.

Toni,

"Well they're not the only ones telling porkies, are they? Did anybody read the full article? This was the last sentence:

"We are willing and ready to provide advice and feedback about sensible, fair and evidence-based firearms laws."

Sensible, fair and evidence-based advice about firearm laws from these nutters? Yeah, sure fellas, and I'm the Queen of Sheba."

Have you any evidence that the SSAA is not in favour of sensible, fair and evidenced based firearms laws and not capable of offering sound advice?

//Have you any evidence that the SSAA is not in favour of sensible, fair and evidenced based firearms laws and not capable of offering sound advice?//

Yep.

Toni,

Then share your knowledge, profound as it undoubtedly is; you might also know about NRA payments to Australia and be able to help Paul out of the hole that he's in.

//Then share your knowledge//

What, just because you command me to do so? Who died and made you Grand Moff?

Is Mise,

Trust does not come into this equation.
Governments just try to save lives (as
they do). That's where we differ from
the US. Thank Goodness.

Foxy,

Do you mean that the Government doesn't trust firearm owners to do the right thing?
That it doesn't trust us to keep our guns locked away when not in use?
That it doesn't trust us not to let them fall into the wrong hands?
My, my and here was me thinking that I was being trusted to do the right thing, to be responsible and keep everything under lock and key.

Toni,

Just put up or shut up, the fact is you don't have a shred of evidence for what you said.

G'day there IS MISE...

To be perfectly honest with you the Govt. doesn't trust anyone per se. That's why police or other authorised Officers, have a power conferred on them, to undertake regular inspections, and anyone found not to be in compliance with whatever Act it is, render themselves liable to some form of punitive action.

Of course when it comes to F/A's, because of their very nature, it's left to the coppers to ensure the Act and Regs are complied with. Whereas many offences that happen say on Sydney Harbour, they have the Maritime Services Board Inspectors, are empowered to take action, as well as the Water Police. Be assured the Govt certainly doesn't trust us - but I do get the general thrust of your argument nevertheless.

Is Mise,

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
That because you have a licence
to own a gun - you are therefore trusted by the government
to do the right thing?

Does that also apply to having a driver's licence - that
you will stay within the speed limits, wear seat belts,
and behave while driving?

Does being able to register as a doctor or an accountant -
make you a good trustworthy one?

Maybe we should register our Members of Parliament.

If receiving a licence is all that's needed to make
one trustworthy and doing the right thing - lets all go
for it!

Dear Is Mise,

You wrote;

“Do you have any objection to the authorities saying that they intercepted 6 firearms and 5,594 firearm parts, which consisted of.... and that most of these parts were intercepted in the US and that they were not intercepted by the relevant people in Australia?”

Of course I would because that is not what happened. There were far more than 6 fully functioning weapons siezed. You have made it out like they had claimed it was 5,600 complete firearms but the minister's own press release specifically used the term 'gun parts'.

“We set up National Anti-Gangs Squads to combat organised crime and bikie gangs: resulting in the arrest of more than 1,030 people; the laying of more than 3,170 charges; and the seizure of more than 5,600 illegal guns and gun parts, along with hundreds of kilograms of drugs.”

The AFP have officers stationed in the States where they work in liaison with the US authorities to intercept shipments of goods that are deemed illegal in Australia. These goods are not prohibited within the US so it is only with AFP say so that they are being seized.

Was the Minister responsible for a bit of over-hyping? Yes, but that is what they all do. Was he lying? Nope.

Time to move on.

The term "Fake News" is not a new concept folks.

Do you know who invented the term?

Not Donald Trump.

It was Adolf Hitler.

Look it up.

Hitler loved to describe any newspaper that exposed him
for what he was as "Lugenpresse." Which is German for
Fake News or - Lying Press.

Interesting.

//Just put up or shut up, the fact is you don't have a shred of evidence for what you said.//

Calm down Captain Crankypants, I'm obviously just having a bit of fun winding you up. I'll furnish you with my evidence when it pleases me to do so, not when it pleases you. Or possibly not. Whatever seems most amusing to me, I suppose.

Toni,

Having been caught out you now squirm, well, squirm away.

Steele,

The Minister, if I remember correctly, amended his statement to include the words "gun parts".

" There were far more than 6 fully functioning weapons siezed"

Proof please, otherwise that's just another of your wild statements.