Dear Big Nana and Joe,

I really don't have the energy or the wish to argue
with you. We;ve covered much of this in past
discussions. My personal view is that I don't see
the harm in granting the Indigenous people what they
ask. A Voice to Parliament on Indigenous issues (without
veto power over legislation). The things that the
governments have tried in the past haven't worked - I don't
see the harm in giving this a go. We just may achieve
something.

Dear Foxy,

For God's sake, there are Indigenous representatives in almost all legislatures across Australia, and ministers in many, if not most governments: SA, NT, WA, Qld, as well as in both Houses of the national Parliament. i.e. 'Voice'. AND there is still a federal Advisory Committee. AND every one of the five thousand or so Indigenous organisations is completely free to comment on any matter proposed by any relevant government which relates their fields. AND Indigenous people are as free as anybody else to phone or visit their local parliamentarians on any issue.

I look forward to the day, hopefully in my lifetime, when Indigenous organisations actually do the jobs that they are being paid for. But I suspect that, for many Indigenous people and organisations and 'communities', 'self-determination' means getting more power to tell white fellas what to do for them. Yes, yes, I know, usually self-determination - for most people - means that people have power to do whatever is required for themselves, to make the decisions required to do whatever is needed for themselves, to need outsiders less and less.

IF Indigenous people across the country genuinely wanted this sort of self-determination, then they would have welcomed some of those fifty-odd thousand graduates to make their expert contributions. I think that many graduates have indeed tried to go to remote communities in order to help their people, only to cop a boot up their arses as know-alls, do-gooders, strangers, interfering in the running of communities, as the big-frogs in little communities quickly realise that they represent threat to their pissy bit of power. So those urban graduates say 'Good-bye' and never come back. Fair enough. So it will be, and the two populations will move ever further apart.

Love,

Joe

Dear Joe,

I can see that you're getting upset.

That was not my intention. I am merely trying to figure
out how this complex situation could be resolved and
when people of the stature of Noel Pearson speak out
against the current government decision -I tend to take
notice. Anyway Thank You for your opinion.

Fingers-crossed that this will not set back the
Reconciliation process with our Indigenous
people in this country. I wonder what our problem is
exactly concerning our Indigenous people. Why are
other countries able to let them have a say and are able
to work together - while we can't. We must be doing
something wrong. How influential are the Maoris in
New Zealand. Perhaps we could learn something from our
neighbour?

Foxy, you seem to be under theimpression that aboriginal people live different lives that need some special conditions applied, thus they need " a voice".
In reality, aboriginal people have the freedom to live exactly the way they want now. They can become brain surgeons, check out chicks or run naked in the bush with boomerang and spear if they so wish.
As Joe states, there is already an overwhelming number of agencies employing thousands of aboriginal people who exist merely to serve aboriginal people, with regards housing, legal issues, health, education, culture, language etc.
They receive extra help financing education for kids and extra help to get them to medical services, which are free.
Perhaps you could give me some idea of any issues where they would need any more special consideration than they get now, and woukd require guaranteed access to government,

Big Nana,

I don't know why you bother arguing with Foxy: she is a Left wing ideologue, which means she incapable of, or refuses to, think before she sprays. You, on the other hand appear to have actual experience of indigenous matters, like Joe, and you really don't have to get down and dirty with the loony Left. I enjoy your posts and respect your knowledge.

There needs to be study of narrative (and counter-narrative in rhetoric), particularly the personal storytelling that it appears even the users of social media, this site too, are now employing. Identity politics is linked with it.

None of these is always a blight on public discourse. But it may be very difficult to accept that, where the discoveries of social psychologists about what makes us human are constantly being used against us. Positioning and nudges are used more often than not for instances.

Joe (Loudmouth) and Big Nana are a breath of fresh air, bringing facts and experience to these discussions. I believe that they bring something even more important to the table by modelling what we should all be doing instead of letting others make decisions for us, which is insisting on evidence and not being bluffed, or coerced by the prevailing political correctness.