I am wondering how the neocon Gestapo will cope with the possible influx of millions of asylum seekers now that Manus and Nauru is closed to them.
With the current ethnic cleansing in Myanmar and the flight of the Rohingas to Bangladesh the pressure is going to mount in this area.
India has built a wall/fence to keep Bangladeshis out and even the Calcutta region of India is going to go under water eventually.
Bangladesh only needs a cyclone Irma, to submerge it and there are millions there who will be on the move to escape inundation.
Somehow I don't think that Dutton and his navy will be able to stem the flow.
Added to that there will be a flood of Pacific Islanders looking for dry land.
It will make the migration to Europe of Africans and Syrians look like a trickle.

It doesn't take many 50 Cal rounds to sink a wooden or even steel boat.

Eliminate the first few, & no more follow.

I suspect the millions in refugee camps elsewhere might not appreciate queue jumpers

Hi Robert,

Yes, 65 million refugees around the world, plus a million Rohingya now, plus maybe a million people now utterly destitute in the eastern Caribbean thanks to Irma.

Yes, of course, Australia (and NZ too) have a moral duty to take some Rohingya refugees, people who are destitute with nowhere to go - just as Australia did under Abbott in relation to Syrians, when we took twelve thousand and NZ took seventy. Maybe we should take another twelve thousand and NZ another seventy Rohingya ?

By the way, if Dutton is in charge of a neocon Gestapo, and India builds a wall against Bangla Desh, what does that make Modi ? What will you be calling Dutton if he decides to take more Rohingya than, say, Indonesia or Malaysia ?

Cheers,

Joe

Runner, has an excellent point!

Hasbeen thinks just sink such people at sea but that is a recipe for war!

Law and order come from Christian Principles!

Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Sea level is not rising due to emissions of CO2 as claimed.

Sea level is higher in some areas of ocean sometimes due to elevated warmth and expansion in water caused by unprecedented human sewage and land use nutrient pollution proliferating algae that harbours heat during photosynthesis, that algae then emitting some heat under dense cloud and during darkness.

AGW science cannot or will not explain the Sea Surface Temperature (SST) anomaly in AGW science.

The SST anomaly in AGW science provides evidence of the real story.

I think part of the real story is coastal people being frightened off their land and migrating elsewhere, while other people wonder how they can secure that abandoned waterfront land. LOL.

Anyone connecting our border control measures with something called "neocon Gestapo" is an absolute ratbag.

What sort of "human being" would advocate the wholesale murder of innocent men, women and children at sea.

"It doesn't take many 50 Cal rounds to sink a wooden or even steel boat. Eliminate the first few, & no more follow."

With his euphemism for murder being, in true Nazi fashion, the word "eliminate". no way to sugar coat this kind of outrageous suggestion from one of the forums more extreme "contributors". The same fool claims he is ex Australian navy. Lets hope we do not have any imbeciles like this jerk in our navy today. If there is they should face a court-martial if such was the case.

We have been dealing with refugees as far as I
can remember and will I'm sure continue to
do so in the future. The world problems have
to be faced and we have always found solutions
in dealing with these problems. I am optimisitc
that this will continue with even better results
for all concerned in the years ahead.

Poms and Mossies on boats will be screened for right wing voting values. Scientist knows since quite a while that the double helix DNA spiral in the chromosomes (situated in the cell nucleus) can display a left-spin or right-spin !

Frequencies polarized with a Left-spin feature degenerative effects and are “responsible” for tumors, malignant cells and cancer.

Right-spinning vibrations, which for the most part are traceable only in tiniest intensities contain euphoriant and life promoting properties ! If this natural spin is depolarized by E-Smog, cell disorder, chaos and degeneration occurs.

No invading force is innocent, whether it comes shooting or begging.

As for helping those destitute, if that is actually what you want to do, a few dollars will go a damn site further, in the country of origin of these so called refugees, & it will help many multiples more people, than what the same dollars will do, over supplying a few of them here.

Firstly turning the boats around seems to be an effective deterrent and no one has needed to be detained since 2013, Secondly, Nauru is still available.

It is only the Neo Nazis from the left that want to see asylum seekers drowning.

Dear Hasbeen,

You really are full of it aren't you.

You get pulled up about wanting to blow refugees out of the water then you simper some weak excuse;

"As for helping those destitute, if that is actually what you want to do, a few dollars will go a damn site further, in the country of origin of these so called refugees, & it will help many multiples more people, than what the same dollars will do, over supplying a few of them here."

However you are very much of record for opposing any money going overseas for aid. The only thing you would send was "Australian made goods".

I know it must be exceedingly difficult but how about some traces of humanity and consistency.

Hi SteeleRedux,

Sixty five million refugees across the world, and counting.

So, given your huge humanitarian heart, how many should Australia take each year ? Sixty five million ? Something a bit less ? A million ? A hundred thousand ?

Now we're getting somewhere. Fifty thousand ? Twenty thousand in government care, and another twenty thousand billeted by good, kind Left-virtuous people such as yourself, free of charge ? Each year ? Ten thousand each then in following years ? Five thousand ? Two thousand ? Seventy, like in NZ ?

Think about it carefully, don't rush. We can wait :)

Cheers,

Joe

Dear SM,

«It is only the Neo Nazis from the left that want to see asylum seekers drowning.»

Only an extreme handful of people like to see others drown.
Nevertheless, if asylum seekers do regretfully drown, then it is by the hands of nature.

Sad as it may be, I rather let nature take its course than raise a finger against anyone myself.

Had Australia not claimed to be a democracy, then whatever it did would have been beyond my control and none of my business. However, since the government of Australia does claim to be democratically elected and thus to represent me, including by its proactive incarceration and torture of others (presumably in the name of "saving them from drowning"), it becomes my duty to object and state loud and clear: "Not in my name!"

Availability of islands should not be an issue. All we have to do is turn the boats back. It is not our problem where they go back to - it has, in the past been Indonesia,where they have arrived with full documentation, which they destroy to come here illegally. I hope this sentimental bulldust about people foolishly risking death at sea is not going to raise its silly head again.

As the Rohingas are being forced out of their own country then the solution is to force those that are oppressing them to stop doing so.
Sanctions and if necessary military action by the UN.

We may have a moral obligation to help them but not to take them in, and by so doing help their oppressors, and the same goes for elsewhere in the world.

The boats used to cross the giant virtual moat to reach Australia are rundown fishing boats. They are sold cheap to people smugglers because fish stocks are so devastated and many fishing livelihood's have been lost, and there is not enough if any money coming in to repair those boats.

Many refugees are leaving their own country where food supply and land for gardening is also exhausted

There is need for productive new industry and busines and employment but even in Australia debate on suggestion of productive new water infrastructure is gagged by ABC news and current affairs and other media.

I think if refugees had fifty to one hundred dollars (US) a day take home pay in their own country they would not want to leave.

@Robert LePage, Monday, 11 September 2017 4:43:37 AM

You have been listening to serial virtue-signalling bores like Phillip Adams again, courtesy of the ABC, haven't you? He has been on continuous loop, leftist self-loathing, (but himself a self-described gentleman farmer, with a farm manager) since waaaaay back in the Sixties. 'Helloo, Gladdies'. Motto, 'Nothing concerning BS is alien to me'.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/phillip-adams-on-how-to-be-a-moral-bullsher/news-story/7c288f9fd4e118d21728c63e47bce20c

Come on Robert LePage, don't be holding back. What is your solution? You must have THE solution, huh? From all of those years listening to the drone.

Hi Leoj,

I'm tempted to listen to Philip Adams, for his imminent announcement of how many Rohingya refugees he is prepared to billet on his farm.

Nah, life's too short.

Joe

My excuse is that ABC radio casts its net wide, which is a good thing. It is only after the drone has been going for some time and a strip of bitumen makes it audible above the BF Goodrich that you might realise that the background whine is not from canvas and wind. But then you realise that yes, the low moaning sound and hissing IS gas and it is coming from the radio, Adams!

He fell on his feet decades ago didn't he, for a comfortable, cosseted life. Clever.

No Steely I'd not waste money on them, I send them you.

With your ego you could fix it all for them, then they could use the rest of you to fertilise their farms. After all, you are full of it.

Did one of my comments disappear?

There's a few strange things that happen around on these forums!

[Deleted for abuse.]

Everyone, have some respect for this site and our people and humanity. But not for the bludgers trying to slip in the back door on boats to live off what we have worked for.

Hi Paul,

The resort to ad hominem is usually a good sign that someone has run out of argument.

What are the issues here ?

* there are more than sixty five million refugees around the world;

* many of them have applied for entry into Australia as refugees, and then had to sit back and wait, sometimes for more than ten years;

* there is a queue;

* Australia can take in only so many refugees each year;

* anybody trying to jump the queue is being turned back.

So what's your solution to this chronic problem ? A larger annual refugee intake ? So, how many do you reckon ? Will this stop people trying to jump the queue who have enough cash to pay smuggler on old boats ?

Take your time, have a good think about it all, and get back to us :)

Cheers,

Joe

"But not for the bludgers trying to slip in the back door on boats to live off what we have worked for."

JF, does that respect extend to children, or as Hasbeen suggests
"It doesn't take many 50 Cal rounds to sink a wooden or even steel boat. Eliminate the first few, & no more follow."

As Robert posted "With the current ethnic cleansing in Myanmar and the flight of the Rohingas to Bangladesh the pressure is going to mount in this area."

Are these people bludgers if they want to escape the horrors that are unfolding in their homeland?

Newsflash JF, if I was in their position I would do my up most to get my family and myself to safety, and hopefully a better life for us all, If it means landing in your backyard all I can say is "hal-loooooo brother!".

Paul1405.

Using babies in discussion is weak and can be tantamount to child abuse.

Anyone so affected as you indicate can apply to the nearest Australian Embassy without spending so much of their poverty stricken cash money on illegal people smuggling.

Joe, Myth: Asylum seekers are queue jumpers. There is no queue like at the supermarket.

Seeking asylum is not a way of ‘jumping the queue’ but is one normal way to apply for protection as a refugee. Resettlement is another way, it exists to help people who cannot return home once conditions have improved.
Even for refugees who are in need of resettlement, there is no orderly resettlement ‘queue’ to join. In practice, the resettlement system works more like a lottery than a queue. While UNHCR which is in charge of the refugee resettlement program aims to prioritise those in greatest need, most refugees – even people in very vulnerable situations – cannot realistically expect to be resettled in the near future, if ever. Many refugees cannot even access UNHCR’s resettlement processes. Resettlement accounts for less than 1% of the worlds refugees per year.
Asylum seeking should not be confused with resettlement.

Your questions to me are immaterial to the problem. or its solution.

"Using babies in discussion is weak and can be tantamount to child abuse."
Suggesting killing innocent children with a 50 Cal gun would be even weaker, and make no mistake Hasbeen did not make any exclusions in his comment, and certainly is child abuse in the extreme. Don't you agree JR?
What do you think or blasting away at a boat full of unarmed people on the high seas by the navy, would be seen as? I seek your opinion, but I think its outright murder.

I am of the same view as you Paul1405, about Hasbeen's comment you refer to.

Dear Joe,

«So what's your solution to this chronic problem ? A larger annual refugee intake ?»

Simple:

Those who apply and are authorised as refugees, arrive in their capacity of refugees, become part of Australian society and accordingly receive human rights.

Those who arrive by boat without authorisation, only arrive in their capacity of animals. While it would not be morally right to block their physical entry into this continent, they do not become part of Australian society and all they must receive is animal rights.

Animals should be allowed to freely roam the country. If they enter cities, then they can be captured and treated as pets. If however they threaten human lives, their property or livestock, then the affected farmers may kill them, obviously in the most humane method possible in accordance with the standards of the RSPCA.

We may of course choose to treat them better than animals - and I hope we do, but allowing them the status of animals is the very minimum.

Paul,

Semantics. 'Queue' or 'lottery': if you haven't applied and waited, or if you haven't bought a ticket, you're not in it.

I'm presuming that, whatever the annual refugee intake is, the number of applicants desperate to get out of shirt-hole refugee camps is far greater. So there's a queue. Yes, it is very similar to a lottery.

That's right, it's like one or the other, or both. I was on a very crowded bus one time last year, crammed up next to a lovely African woman, and I said, "If he takes any more passengers, you and me will have to get married." She laughed heartily, so we had a five-minute yarn: she had been in a refugee cxamp in West Aftrica for eighteen years.

She was in a queue for eighteen years. Do you think, Paul, that she had ten thousand bucks to pay off a smuggler ? Did you see all that many African people on those boats, when they were coming ? No ? Why's that ? Too far ? Probably. No money ? Very likely. Fair ? No.

So, yes, there's a queue. People wait. And wait. And wait. OF COURSE some people get impatient, but does that justify their taking the place of some poor bugger stuck out in the Kenyan desert for fifteen years, for another year ? And another ? And another ?

Have just a trace of humanity, for god's sake. Think.

Joe

Jf Aus: First of all I have to admit that I have no idea who Phillip Adams is, let alone what he stands for.
I saw from the link that the diatribe against him was on an Andrew Bolt blog, so I would say he must a good fellow.
OK here is the plan that unfortunately will never be allowed.
1st. Pull all of ADF forces out of foreign countries unless they are there to do relief work after a disaster.
2nd. Stop the huge influx of nearly 300,000 migrants and 100,000 or more 547 visa workers, from flooding into the country at the direction of big corporations who want a surplus of labour, enabling them to reduce and freeze wages.
3rd. bring in tariffs for any Australian company that moves it's operations to a very 3rd world country, to reap the benefits of cheap labour.
Kill the huge tax breaks for big business.
4th. Nationalise the energy sector and have it operated by a Federal board with an oversight committee.
5th. Nationalise the oil and gas sector with the same as above.
6th. Create a Federal ICAC that will limit and audit government salaries and expenses.
7the cancel the orders for F35 -Turkeys and a fleet of submarines.
7th Raise the royalties on minerals to an equivalent level of overseas countries.
By eliminating the influx of migrants the refugee intake can be increase enormously helping the world refugee problem.

Hi Robert,

I read your post and, at first, thought, "This man's an idiot." Then I read it again, and again, and now conclude that, "Yes, this man's an idiot."

Just a couple of issues, top of head stuff:

* try to impose tariffs on Australian companies who move operations overseas, and how long before they are officially a Singaporean or British or Virgin Islands company ? Same company, now a foreign company ? Out of Australia's tax zone ?

* block the migration of skilled migrants, and replace them with poor buggers from, say, Rakhine State (didn't it used to be called 'Arakan' during the War ?) who can grown millet and maybe tea, but can't really operate a RMI machine, or work on major engineering works;

* nationalise oil and gas firms ? Many companies would be most grateful to be bought out at inflated prices.

I'll leave some other tid-bits to others :)

Joe

What about if we maintain our net level of migration by trading off 'skilled migrants' for refugees on a one-for-one basis?

We let in hundreds of thousands of skilled migrants a year, but I doubt they have any useful skills that one can't learn here, save perhaps for fluency in uncommon languages. I suspect we draft them to do the jobs that Aussies don't want to do, or think are 'too hard'. Snowflakes. Saw a report today that we're severely under-represented in science graduates. It galls me to think that we might be importing foreigners trained in the sciences because snowflakes think science is too hard. It's really not - I'm trained in analytical chemistry, and I'm an idiot: just ask any of our resident Tories.

And the skilled migrants we let in? Well, they're usually quite well off in their home country. Because they have skills, and can get well-paying jobs there. They're not Rohingyas in Burma, or Jews in Nazi Germany, or whatever. They're not in fear of their life, or the life of those they love. They are economic migrants.

So here's my crazy idea, Joe: fewer foreign professionals that we don't really need because we can train our own right here at home, and more refugees who we can train to fill any skills shortages. We'll still have the population growth which apparently is so essential, and we'll get a better cross-section of humanity. Half the problems I see in the world these days are caused by too many chiefs and not enough indians (native americans), and the skilled migration program targets chiefs. Maybe we could do with a few more indians (not necessarily ones from India).

We can't take them all: that's mental. But maybe we could take a few more, without altering our net immigration level, by swapping them out for economic migrants. What do you think?

Hi Toni,

Second time lucky. Bastard computer.

I'm sure you're not an idiot ;)

But the migration issue and the refugee issue are completely different, they're not interchangeable.

Yes, we should be training far more highly-sought-after professionals, if they would only come forward. Perhaps their HECS/HELP debt could be waived ? Conversely, all those wanting to enrol in interpretive dance or mime or telephone sanitization could be required to do a year or two of fruit picking in SA's beautiful Riverland, or melons in the Kimberley.

Alternatively, such snowflakes could face the exciting challenge of living with their parents on absolutely no government financial support whatsoever for an equivalent time.

Certainly, we haven't got it right yet. Until we do, I don't have the slightest problem with taking in fully-qualified Indians or Chinese or Filipinos or Koreans.

Cheers,

Joe

Perhaps if we were to pay English, Geography, Media Studies & Dance teachers what they were worth, {not much], & Math, Physics & Chemistry teachers what they were worth, [a hell of a lot more], & got rid of the no hoper teachers, [a large number], we might again have kids capable of handling science subjects.

We have no chance with our dumbed down education, run by feminists.

Dear Toni,

What a mistaken impression you have of skilled migrants:

«They're not Rohingyas in Burma, or Jews in Nazi Germany, or whatever. They're not in fear of their life, or the life of those they love. They are economic migrants.»

You really think that the Australian economy is so bright and shiny?
Skilled people could do economically better in most other countries, but they come here either for personal reasons (falling in love with an Australian; family reunion) or for the exact reasons listed above.

People are not less persecuted than others because they happen to be skilled.

I see myself as a refugee, but for the formal paper-work I arrived here on a skilled visa. If all I had on my mind was to make money, then I could have stayed there where by now I would have become miserable, but a billionaire.

The whole 'Stop the Boats' thing is just a publicity stunt to give an impression they are tough on immigration when they're actually letting hundreds of thousands of foreigners in every year.

It's just 'sleight of hand'; 'look over here, not over there'.
It creates a talking point in which they are 'seen to be tough'.
Without it they'd have nothing to ramble on about; they'd have no line of defense for criticism in regards to immigration.
Politics is bs.

Loudmouth: Well I feel I have accomplished something. If it took you umpteen times to read my post, at least you did manage to read.
OK to make it simple for you, by putting a tariff on companies that have off shored, I mean they will have to pay a tariff on what they want to bring into Australia.

*Blocking immigration of skilled workers* Well maybe that would encourage Australian companies to put on more apprentices and maybe to make the neocons drop their huge payments for university education. I think it would take a government with ideology not so engraved in stone but you never know.

*Many companies would be most grateful to be bought out at inflated prices* well I am thinking that if they are so badly off they could hand back the mineral rights of what really belongs to Australians and implement my nr 5.
I am sure that the offshore tax havens will miss the deposits but we will gain them.

I will wait for your next ad hominem.

Hi Robert,

Ad hominems ? Moi ?!

Your points then:

* do you really think any Australian government is ever going to re-impose import duties, any more than at present ? In any case, ex-Australian companies producing off-shore have many other markets;

* likewise, any greatly expanded apprenticeship schemes. In any case, skilled migrants are more likely to be working in much more professional positions which can't easily or quickly be filled by Australians;

* says who oil and gas companies might be in financial trouble ? They will simply see opportunities to force up the price on any such moves towards nationalisation. And really, can you see any Australian government buying out oil and gas companies ?

Sorry, mate, your ideas are pie-in-the-sky day-dreams :(

See ? No ad hominems :)

Cheers,

Joe

Dear Robert,

Well if you're an "idiot" then I must be one as well.

I actually thought many of your suggestions made a great deal
of sense.

At least you did offer solutions.

Thank You.

I agree with Foxy there.

Joe, no political party in Australia has entirely clean hands on the question of refugees. Politics has been played by all sides, and mistakes have been made by all sides in the debate.

My own opinion is a middle of the road approach, I do not favor a closed door policy, I certainly do not agree with a blowing boats out of the water policy, no more than I would agree with a totally open door policy of walk up, walk in.

To have queue jumpers, firstly you have to have a queue to jump. There is no such thing as a queue, and talk of a queue is misleading. What there is, is an assessment based priority, time waiting post assessment is a consideration, but it is not the sole determinate. by a long way. The girl you speak of may have had a longer wait, simply by the virtue of the particular camp she was in, then again she may have gained priority over others whom had been waiting a longer period of time but had less priority. I would agree waiting 18 years in a refugee camp for resettlement is far too long. The cause is too many waiting for too few places, the 1% per year of the total number in camps that get resettled. On that scale 18 years could be seen as better than average, shocking but better than average. For some on here there is no time factor, they would not allow any refugees into Australia.

cont

cont

By boat is not something that should be encouraged, full stop. Working with governments that control ports of embarkation is the first step in stopping the illicit practice, with severe penalties for those engaged in people smuggling. That goes hand in hand with strong detection methods to deter trafficking. Those that do arrive, although they are not criminals, should face a thorough investigative process to determine their position, as to their asylum seeking status. I have no problem with deporting those who fail the assessment. The rub is getting someone else to take those you want to deport.

Working to reduce the root causes of the problem in the first place, war, famine, responding to natural disasters better etc would go a long way to allevate the misery. No refugees, no problem.

Have just a trace of humanity, for god's sake. Think.

Paul.

Dear Loudmouth,

I have repeatedly said I would be happy halving our migrant intake and doubling our refugee intake.

I have had the pleasure of assisting a new migrant with his English for a few years. One of the hardest workers I know and still brings me gifts every birthday, Christmas and Easter even though the lessons stopped years ago. I am more than happy to have him as an Aussie and he is very grateful to this nation and its people for giving he and his family a chance. I am about to do the same for another chap. Well worth it if you can find the time.

We are a rich nation so if baffles the hell out of me why we virtually give away citizenships to wealthy Chinese migrants just because they have a few buck yet squabble about the prople who really do need our assistance.

Dear Hasbeen,

Pretty pissweak comeback mate. You are slipping old chap.

I agree with Hasbeen
Those millions of young fit African men that forced their way into Germany,
were an invading army.
Water Hoses couldn't stop them, they broke through fences ,they refused
to identify themselves and are still roaming around in Europe, and nobody knows who they are or where they are.

Oh, if only the Germans and Japanese could have known to arrive without weapons and just push their way into countries around the world who felt unable to treat them as the invading armies they were and do the only thing that would stop them marching in.
Shoot them. Shoot the forerunners if that's the only way to stop them.

And why aren't these fit young men sailing around Africa and getting off these boats in peaceful areas of Africa.
They should be towed back to peaceful parts of Africa.
Overpopulation has consequences and it's time some of these stupid males had to wear the consequences of their overpopulating. We are only letting them escape from consequences of their own making.

They leave their mothers and sisters behind to die. The people helping them to come ashore said they pushed women and children aside to push through.
Europe and the West need to pull out of the destructive United Nations and take a military stand. Saying you made this 7 billion people on earth problem.
You deal with it. Western countries have taken in enough.
We have our own future generations to think of. It's an insult to our soldiers,fathers and sons who died protecting this country for future generations.

Oh Cherful!

Just a few years ago Australia's policy was populate or perish.
What has changed? Is it the skin colour?

Not that I agree with illegal entry for genuine refugees or opportunists pushing in to grab the good life in somebody else's country.

Turning the boats back is what illegals should expect and regular media advertising in the embarkation countries should get the massage well and truly out.

I think any genuine refugee would be allowed entry.

The opportunists in so called detention have had an open door and freedom to return home but many stay trying to stare us down to allow them entry.
Aus lefty media does not report that tricky cunning bluff.

Hi Paul,

If more refugees apply each year to come to Australia than the quota, then there's a queue. It's a version of the Micawber Rule.

Do you really think that, out of sixty five million and counting, and given our refugee intake of fourteen thousand or so, there might be just fourteen thousand applicants each year, every year ? Out of 65,000,000 ?

Close to a million Rohingya have now fled cto Bangla Desh in the past six years. How many Rohingya might want to come to Australia after this fascist ethnic cleansing in Burma ? How many will do the right thing, utterly skint as they may be and unable to pay smugglers, but filling out all the right forms, and then sitting on some swampy island, waiting their turn ?

So when you assert that there isn't a queue, you may need to explain what you actually mean.

Steele,

So ........ you were working with a migrant, but you want to cut migration, and double the refugee intake. So ...... the people with the crucial skills that we need will be replaced by poor buggers who don't have them.

They're not interchangeable, you know :)

Joe

Why would anyone assume that all genuine refugees
are unskilled?

The common denominator is their fleeing persecution -
not their lack of skills.

Take the case of Al Munjed Muderis who fled Iran and
came to Australia by boat. His case is just one example.

Dearest Foxy,

Nobody is saying 'all'.

65,000,000 and counting. So, dear, how many each year ? What's your suggestion ?

Love forever,

Joe

Here is a link that's worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munjed_Al_Muderis

It would have indeed been Australia's loss if this man would
not have made it to our shores and been allowed to
stay. He is now not only making remarkable contributions
in his chosen field of medicine but he is also training
others in his chosen field.

Hi Joe,

Government policy in the first instance determines the quota or intake of refugees for the coming year. Australian officials work with the UN agency in filling that quota. Although a refugee could narrowly miss out this year, by virtue of the assessment process being applied at that particular time, there is no guarantee the same person will qualify in next years intake. One of the complaints of refugees is the uncertainty of the whole process.

That procedure then is why there is no queue and therefore no incentive to get in line.

Dear Paul and JF Aus,

Well said to both of you.

I read something interesting by Angela Julian-Armitage
who's a barrister and national president of the
Migration Institute of Australia - a body representing
Australia's migration lawyers and agents, who in turn
represent both migrants and businesses looking to hire
migrants.

She stated that "Without immigration the skilled
occupation lists would never get filled. Seeing doctors
and nurses would be harder for everyone. A lot of
businesses would have to close. Universities would
collapse without international student's income. We
would have a rapidly diminishing taxation base to fund
the running of the country and the aging population
and Australians who married a non-Australian overseas
could not bring in their new spouse."

So there you have it - lower growth, a budget blowout,
skill shortages and jobs put at risk. As Armitage
points out - proponents of halting migration should be
careful what they wish for.

Peter Dutton's immigration targets for 2017-18 are as
follows:

1) Migration target is at 190,000.
2) Humanitarian program has risen to - 16,250 for
2017-18.

Can anyone object to that?

Foxy, "Seeing doctors and nurses would be harder for everyone"

For many years now, both sides of politics have presided over an arrangement where universities link with teaching hospitals to isolate and guarantee an allocation of places to be used exclusively for overseas fee paying students. That unfairly restricts the number of Australian students who can be accepted to medical training in their own universities. Many Australian students have already successfully completed a medical science/engineering degree and will pay HECS for that as well as having to set a path elsewhere, which they do.

Overseas students are attracted by citizenship and family reunion later. Following completing of studies and the obligatory service somewhere in the country, eg Townsville, they lob in the major metropolitan centres anyhow. Whereas some of those Aussie students who were excluded, come from Oz country areas and would likely have returned to country centres.

It is all politics.

Nurses
We have plenty of nurses who seek work but lose their registration through lack of jobs. Jobs are given to nurses from overseas.
It doesn't take a Dick Smith to figure out the politics behind that.

It must be difficult for the faux leftist 'Progressives' to sort their politically correct priorities. But that cringing left self-loathing usually comes out on top. Where is guru, wealthy 'Gentleman Farmer' and complete tosser, Phillip Adams?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/phillip-adams-on-how-to-be-a-moral-bullsher/news-story/7c288f9fd4e118d21728c63e47bce20c

leoj,

I shall be happy to engage with you when you
can do so in a civilised manner. Get rid of
the insults.

Foxy,

There is no shortage of doctors in Aus, so much so that the universities have limited places to the point where to get to study medicine requires marks far higher than ever before such that only about 20% of those accepted 10 years ago would achieve entry today. That skilled migration is a bonus to the country I will not dispute, but the quotas are often out of date and result in an oversupply in certain fields.

Also, the few diamonds amongst the 10 000s of asylum seekers are vastly outweighed by the vast majority of those arriving since 2008 being unemployed years later.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I stand by the facts given in my previous post.
If you want to contradict them supply us with
links that support your claims. Thanks.

Foxy,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/federal-election-2016/federal-election-2016-doctor-glut-to-blow-out-medicare-costs/news-story/68ebbc355a181be879702d06ee6d057b

"A growing glut of doctors has forced GPs to “chase patients” and pushed bulk-billing rates to record highs, leaving Medicare vulnerable to overuse that will add to its projected cost blowout of more than $35 billion within a decade.

Growth in GP numbers of ­almost 50 percent over the past decade — 2.5 times population growth — has undermined doctors’ ability to charge fees above the Medicare Benefits Schedule, according to Australian Population Research Institute analysis."

Trust Shadow to pull out a back copy of some bit of Murdoch trash to try and win an argument!
Foxy you should have asked for a "reliable link", then Shadow could have directed you to his favorite publication 'The Daily Telecrap' and his second favorite columnists behind Andy (Beat Up) Bolt, Piers Akerman!

I suppose with the new $60,000,000 pay off to get Nick Xenophon to vote yes, to letting Rupert to own it all, we can expect even more links from Shadow to the Murdoch gutter press in the future!

Dear Shadow Minister,

I am amazed by your link when the reality certainly
appears to be somewhat different from what your link
espouses - especially regarding acute care services in
NSW public hospitals as just one example. Also the
serious shortages of both doctors and nurses in
regional and rural areas is quite vast.

This infromation is available on the
web.

Dear Paul,

Well said.

Of course the bringing in of foreign workers has always been about money
it saves the government and businesses spending money to train Australians,
And because the prospect of gaining Australian citizenship is dangled in front of
skilled immigrants, they are willing to accept lower wages than Australians thus
bringing down wages and putting Australians out of jobs.

One time there was a law that any business who employed more than 100people were required to train apprentices.
But since that time the governments and businesses have conspired to poach already trained skilled workers, from less liveable lifestyle, countries.
They have done this to save billions in tax and profits at the expense of the Australian people.

Do migrants take away jobs from "old" Australians?

This accusation is levelled from time to time at all
migrants. It may be true in some cases, under certain
circumstances; but it can hardly be applied to all
migrants in this country. Many newcomers as we know,
have established building companies, new factories,
retail shops, restaurants, service and repair centres,
tailor shops and many other small businesses and in
all kinds of trades. As a group, the newly arrived
migrants often create additional secondary jobs,
with their high levels of demand for goods and services.

It is beyond the scope of this post to pursue the topic
further due to the 350 word limit however it is worth noting
that a great deal of research has been carried out in
Australia over the decades on the general economics of
immigration, on the specific immigrants and their
particular contribution to Australian society.

Paul,

The figures quoted were from the "Australian Population Research Institute", and while I know that you struggle reading the big words in the Australian, are you challenging the Australian Population Research Institute?

Foxy,

The issue with the shortage of skills in rural areas extends further than just doctors, due to young people not wanting to move out of the cities. I lived near Adelong for a number of years, and the local GP with a thriving practice could not get anyone to replace him when he retired, nor could the pharmacy even after offering salaries above those in the cities.

Dear Shadow Minister,

The following link explains the problem in rural areas:

http://newmatilda.com/2017/02/07/forgotten-people-breaking-bush/

In the cities there are also serious staff problems in the
acute care services in public hospitals and aged-care facilities.

LOL
Many rural people use available money for fuel to get to town and to buy essentials that do not include all the sundry items in pharmacies that should help viability and good overtime wages.
It can be tough out there.
And I have station overseer experience 400 km west of Bourke.

Foxy,

From your link:

"Besides, “there is no way” living in a city like Sydney or Melbourne would afford her family the kind of lifestyle they have in Forbes, which she describes as “God’s gift on earth”."

There are huge benefits to living in a small town and huge problems. I lived in a small town for several years and ended up moving to Sydney to get access to better schools.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Of course there are many benefits of living in
rural communities. I still have families that
live there and have no intention of moving.
However what we are discussing here
are some of the disadvantages, these communities
face as well as certain staff shortages that we
have not only in rural areas but in the cities as
well.

Foxy,

We were talking about doctors. Whilst there might be isolated shortages of specific specialities, overall there is no shortage of Doctors in Aus. I have several doctors as friends and all of them have indicated that there is no shortage.

Recent articles have indicated that there is a shortage of intern places at Aus hospitals for all the medical graduates.

Country placements

There is an indigenous element that has taken over some country towns and drunkenness, abuse and violence in the street is commonplace. I have young relatives and their friends who looked forward to country placements and were shown every courtesy and support by grateful farmers and their families, but were thankful that their duty, as it came to be seen, came to an end.

This is not uncommon and often goes unreported,

"A female doctor at a remote Western Australian Aboriginal community has left in fear for her safety and nurses are also threatening to pull out after repeated attempts to break into their homes.

Multiple sources have told the ABC there has been an increase in attempted burglaries and other problems in the Warburton community, 920km north-east of Kalgoorlie, after the return of several people who had been charged with break and enter and stealing offences.

The nurses have been issued with walkie talkies and distress alarms."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-10/medical-staff-pulling-out-of-warburton-community/5958222

Dear Shadow Minister,

Perhaps you need to talk to people who work in acute care in
public hosptials as well
as do some more research on the subject.

There have been Commissions of Inquiry into
Acute Care Services in Public Hospitals that
disagree with your claims.

Foxy,

Don't confuse specifics with generalities. Where there is a free choice there will always be an oversupply in some areas and a shortage in others.

Not many people join medicine to work in proctology for example.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I will again politely suggest that you do your
research on the subject of shortages in
public hospitals. There's nothing more to be said.

Cheers.

Foxy,

The shortage of staff seems to coincide to some extent with the shortage of funds to pay for them. The private hospitals don't seem to have a problem.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You could be right. Cut backs to health by the
Government certainly does not help the situation.

"The shortage of staff seems to coincide to some extent with the shortage of funds to pay for them."

I know what you mean Shadow, here in NSW, the incompetent LIberal/National government of Gladys Whatshername is blowing billions of dollars through cost blow outs for half baked, over priced, ineffective, stupid road projects. Not to mention the financial fiasco of their 'light rail'! Gee, no wonder there is no money for much needed hospitals and schools, when you have these dills running government and blowing the cash!

I totally agree with you.

What about not enough money and doctors and nurses to reduce surgical procedure waiting lists throughout our country and in home countries of the boat people ?

This is all about economics and politics and media that is allowing the situation to worsen.
Just look at the waste of time in federal parliament from leaders bickering and jibing at each other instead of debating economic solutions including new projects to generate new business and employment and revenue.

And how did light rail get publicly approved in this democracy?
Who wants trams again?
Buses are faster without taking up whole roadways and parking areas and spaces
Its not light rail, they are TRAMS.
Costing billions.

Proper economics and prosperity and peace should be debated worldwide and to inspire people to stay in their own countries.

Paul,

Good to see you representing the do-nothing greens well and opposing both roads and public transport and the budget surplus the libs achieve.

Shadow,

Maybe you have Paul wrong about his comment there.
I think the greens support trams?
I did not see the greens speaking out to stop them, the "light rail".

If only political point scoring could be put aside so as to get prosperity and peace happening worldwide.

I can tell you all about it, here in Sydney we are overwhelmed by the constant arrival of 'BOAT PEOPLE'! Just this week another four boats arrived, disgorging about 12,000 ASYLUM SEEKERS. I was at Circular Quay myself, making a valiant, but fruitless, single handed attempt at turning back the boats. At one point I managed to get one boat, which the PEOPLE SMUGGLERS had foolishly painted white and named 'Pacific Explorer' for easy identification, hitched to the Sydney ferry "The Lady Woodward', hoping to tow the invader back out to sea, and then to the port of embarkation, namely Noumea in New Caledonia, but alas our gallant little ferry was no match for the 78,000 tonne monster! I believe some asylum seekers had paid the people smugglers as much as $1,000/day to be brought to Aussie, can you believe it! I even went as far as catching a ferry to Manly, and as we passed Garden Island, I yelled out to our ever vigilant navy boys "There are boat people in the harbour!" They looked at me oddly, and laughed, can you believe that? They did nothing, not a thing. Anyway, despite my best efforts all the boaties got ashore, and they were last seen heading for The Rocks, the Star Casino and Paddy's Market! I do do believe Canberra and Macquarie Street are encouraging this kind of people smuggling, by issuing visas and offering assistance, can you believe it, I certainly can't! I will be back next week at Circular Quay attempting to once more, turn back the boats. Wish me luck.

Gosh, that's clever, Paul. I laughed so hard I wet my jocks, I might have to change them; nah.

So Australia has an annual quota, around sixteen thousand. The LNP government also has special intakes, and I hope that they take many Rohingya from Arakan, those poor buggers don't seem to have done anybody any harm. Of course, you may wish that the annual quotas and special intakes were more numerous ?

So what's your preferred number ? 20,000 and, say, 5,000 ? 40,000 and 10,000 ? Pick a number :)

I would love to know how many of the 65,000,000 refugees around the world have done all the right things and applied to come to Australia. I'm sure you would agree that the annual quota should come from their number.

So do you think that ny others who come by boat without papers etc. should be taken in - and if so, as part of the annual quota, or over and above it ? If as part of vthe annual quota, then should they displace equivalent numbers of people who have filled out all the right forms and waited ?

And waited.

And waited.

Or do you think that people with a few thousand dollars can jump the queue ?

Queue ?! Well, if the numbers of new applicants each year, people who have filled out all the right forms, and waited, is greater than the annual quota, then there's a waiting list. A queue. Your strange rationale against the notion doesn't fly, Paul.

Joe

Dear Paul,

There are so many facts that Australians get wrong about
asylum seekers. The following link deals with just a few:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/15/theres-no-legal-queue-and-three-other-facts-australians-get-wrong-about-asylum-seekers

Dearest Foxy,

Tickner. Yeah. I liked this bit:

"If this mythical global queue did actually exist, based on the number of refugees there are in the world, people joining the end might wait 170 years to get to the front."

Well ...... yeah !

He said nothing about numbers applying to come to Australia, or anywhere else. He said nothing about whether or not the numbers applying exceeded Australia's annual quota. OF COURSE, refugees would be grateful to go anywhere, but surely many have specified Australia ? How many ? He dodges that issue.

And if you want to use his word 'lottery', go for it: it doesn't make their plight any less fraught, or more certain. Either way, queue-jumpers try to get in ahead by paying smugglers. Or, if you like, dodgy lottery-ticket holders have an unfair advantage of being winners. Queue or lottery, it's a grossly unfair process, and I'm sure you would agree :)

We hear about Sudanese waiting in camps in Kenya for ten years and more. What, you think they haven't heard about Australia, from relations ? Do you think they haven't applied ? Maybe they'll get around to it after, say, seven years ? 'Hmmm, this isn't a bad camp, no water or food on some days, gangs running the place shaking us down and raping our girls, but all in all ... yeah, I think I'll stay here for a while longer and give Australia a miss.'

Really ?

Love,

Joe

Dear Joe,

If you were to do a wider scope of research on the subject of
Australia, queues, and asylum-seekers - it may
help to not only broaden the discussions but actually
encourage them.