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The Forum > General Discussion > Man has to become a human being

Man has to become a human being

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Paul,

You brought up race in the very first comment on the issue:

"Hi Foxy, I had a read up on the Elijah case and given the outcome, one would think it must have taken place in Alabama in 1962."

Every left whinge article dredges up ancient injustices against Aboriginals as a justification for a lynch mob, so don't post such BS. If the child had been white, we wouldn't have heard one peep from the left whingers.

Foxy,

You don't "feel" that justice has been done? What's the alternative? You freely admit that there is no evidence to contradict the ute driver's account and that he was convicted and sentenced on that basis. So what would you consider to be "justice"?

And the term "taking the law into his own hands" implies that the ute owner was breaking the law in pursuing a criminal fleeing with his stolen property.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 4:48:07 AM
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Hi Shadow, why do you claim Elijah was a criminal in this matter, where is your evidence? Just as you had no evidence against those you accused in the Bolt incident, you have no evidence against the boy. Even if he was Al Capone, the perpetrator had no right to take the law into his own hands, and act like a vigilante, causing death.
Why did I mention Alabama 1962, because travesties of justice were also common in that place in that year, there is a parallel. Given the sentences often imposed by the courts on reckless drivers who cause death, this one seemed rather light. The action of deliberately pursuing another person, which in most other cases of reckless driving causing death is not a consideration, was not considered when sentencing. Why? Because it was this blokes property that was involved, and property take precedent over life. Someone even put a value on it, I think $3,000, I don't care if the bike was worth $3,000 or $3 million, life is of greater value.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 5:52:33 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

The alternative action would have been - for the man not
to take the law into his own hands. For the local police
to do their job - and then there might have been a
different outcome.

Also the responding police vehicles and an ambulance
drove over the tracks left by the Navara 4WD, which
made piecing together what happened much more difficult.
In the end, investigators had to rely heavily on the
man's version of events - that Elijah suddenly veered
in front of the 4WD, and then disappeared under it.
Nobody asked what the 4WD was doing driving so close
to the motorbike rider for that to have happened?
Why didn't the driver of the 4WD have time to stop,
as he told police. Had the driver been further back
this would not have happened. It would not have
happened if the driver had given the child some space.
Had the driver been drinking?

In any case, regardless, the man's version of events
appears to be the one that police accepted.
So again, I say for all those reasons - I don't think
that justice was done. In any case there is little
point in debating this outcome. It's no likely to be
appealed. Justice has been done, say authorities.
Move on.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 9:46:40 AM
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It's one or the other Foxy, not both.
If the local police did their job, there would be no reason for the citizen to take the law into his own hands (to search for and try to retrieve his stolen goods)

The kid would be alive, and the bloke would also not be in jail.
What about his kids, are they reasonably and genuinely expected to be racist now?
I wouldn't blame them if they were.
Also if the kids parents didn't allow him to avoid school and consider racial theft to be normal, the the situation would also have been avoided.
I blame the government first, Elijah's parents second, and I allocate little blame to the driver of the vehicle who himself was a victim, of the other previous failures.

I blame government incompetence and failure to act on an issue known to them.

Potiticians should be in jail for this, as well as Elijah's parents not the driver of the car who was told by police (who should be demoted and reprimanded) to go look for his stolen stuff himself in the place it was expected to be found after a crime had been committed.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 10:05:04 AM
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Paul,

You open your mouth and expose your hypocrisy. You claim that Elijah can't be called a criminal for lack of evidence but are quite happy to declare the ute driver guilty of murder "he simply, malicious and willfully, ran the kid over, and killed him".

The fact that Elijah was in possession of stolen property has been proved, and in itself is a criminal offense, so you are wrong on both accounts. All three if your amnesia to the thugs attacking Bolt posting their injuries on an Intifa blog was evidence of them being left whinge fascists.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 11:28:25 AM
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Foxy,

I admire the skillful way you completely failed to answer the question. I asked what was the alternative to convicting and sentencing based on the evidence.

The courts have a quaint way of dealing with criminal cases by asking the jury to come to a verdict based on the facts and evidence available and not considering other factors such as ancient injustices and peoples' feelings.

Paul,

I don't think that there is a single society that does not put some value on personal property and taking someone else's property is not a crime. Similarly, citizens have limited power to protect and retrieve their property. The concept of a citizen's arrest is pretty much universal, and the reasonable action to pursue and restrain them before calling the police is entirely legal in Aus.

The issue is not whether the bike was worth $3 or $3m, it was entirely possible for the ute driver to legally pursue the criminal without injuring him. The sentence the driver got was for driving in a reckless way which enabled the accident to occur at which point the theft and reason for pursuit became incidental.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 12:51:43 PM
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