The latest example of Malcolm Turnbull's lack of political nous is his reaction to Bill Shorten's suggestion that we need four year terms for federal parliament.

Shorten is currently favoured to win the next election, so of course Shorten likes the idea. Much easier for him to introduce his "reforms" with a longer time frame.

And there must be something for Shorten in it, because there is no public clamour for the change, so it's not as though he's been pressured into this.

Malcolm could have responded by saying that he'd think about it, but while he could understand why Bill might want it, what is in it for the people? And he could have said he had a lot more important things on his mind, like working out how to get legislation through a senate that Bill Shorten is determined to make dysfunctional.

Perhaps he could have suggested that reforms to the Senate to stop it frustrating a popular mandate might be in order, and that a smaller Senate might be a good idea. He might have added that 8 year terms for senators would be absurd, so we'd have to look at 4 year terms for all the senators. And if Bill is so keen on a referendum, why not throw in a plebiscite for Gay Marriage at the same time.

Afterall, what could be more popular with the public, with the decline of the major party vote, than trying to give politicians even more power?

Well, Shorten is setting the agenda and Turnbull has fallen for it.

Fortunately the idea would go to a referendum, and few Australians would want to to give them more time to do even more damage than they do now in three years. The idea is preposterous.

Senators will be all for it. As it is, some Senators could get an honorary PhD for research on their own entitlements. They'd run out of foreign places for study tours wouldn't they?

What about four year terms and get rid of the Senate? Throw in a few extras in the Reps if they like.

If Mal wants to get back into government that would be the way to go.

Gay referendum? Might not impress the real alternative government, 'their' ABC. That could be a problem for Mal.

ttbn,
For what I think is the first time, I'm in complete agreement with you!

I would be against four-year terms for the reasons others here have cited. However, fixing the terms might be a good idea as it would prevent the party in power from playing politics with the election date.

(How many words starting with P can YOU fit into a sentence?)

I'm not so sure the public would reject it in a referendum, though. People here in Queensland seemed pretty keen to allow four-year terms for the state parliament, and for no apparent reason other than the fact that they couldn't be bothered dragging their arses to the polling booth every three years. This, despite three-year terms supposedly being a consolation for not having a senate.

Fixed four-year terms may offer a bit more political stability, however.

(How many words starting with P can YOU fit into a sentence?)

Plenty.

100%, mhaze. I guess you can't beat that.

Think of the money that we spend by having frequent
elections. The Prime Minister can call an election
any time the party chooses. Three year elections
doesn't give adequate time for the elected to implement
their policies before they have to prepare for the
next election. A longer fixed term would be more
economical and stable. It is only rational
that the Prime Minister and the Opposition leader see
these advantages. As for Referendums which cost a
fortune - it is time that we had a look at amending our
Constitution in this the 21st Century.

Leoj mentions the Senate. That abomination has to go, of course.

It wouldn't matter how long you gave the dogs breakfast parliament of Oz to do a job, with the dog's tail, the senate, wagging the dog, the parliament, they are never going to do anything worth the effort.

I would be happy to have a Referendum, provided we got the chance to chose a 2 year term instead of 4 or 3. At least then we might have a chance of voting for the same prime minister, before their party dump him.

Dear GrahamY,

I will admit to scratching my head over you Libs sometimes. Here is Turnbull, literally streets ahead of Shorten in personal approval ratings while the rest of the party continues to be on the nose with the majority of Australians. Yet you lot don't seem to get it. You keep making out that he is the source of all your woes.

How about having a look in your own back yard. You have a bunch of arrogant, climate change denying, pompous, selfserving, damaging so called conservatives (I use that term loosely) ripping the place apart and Turnbull gets the blame. He is one of the few thing that lot have going for them but he continues to be pilloried. Perhaps the Abbott disease will clear itself before the next election but you have so many infected that it is hard to see it happening.

I don't expect that even the current crop of clueless leaders actually believe they could get a referendum up on this issue. Majority of voters in a majority of states - no chance.

Its being raised because it fills a need for each side. For Shorten it makes it look like he's thinking about the future and is prepared to take on the tough issues (chortle).

For Turnbull? Last week (last weak?) he suffered a humiliating loss to the AbbottAbbott bogeyman at the Lib conference and there was every chance that that'd be the news cycle for the next few days. So what to do? Create a diversion so that the 27 year old know-nothings (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/05/05/white-house-official-on-some-reporters-overseas-expertise-they-literally-know-nothing/?utm_term=.c9f23bf8df3b) will run off in another direction.

This idea won't go anywhere. But it'll come up again occasionally when the news cycle needs to be changed.

Paul Keating was said to have said that, if the current story-line doesn't suit, chuck a bloody big piece of red meat in the other direction and let the press chase that. His go-to story was the republic. Whenever he needed to change the story-line he'd suddenly develop new interest in the republic issue. And off the hounds would bound.

If you see a big chunk of meat headed in one direction look in the other direction to find out what the pollies are trying to distract you from.

mhaze,

You captured that well.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Well said.

cont'd ...

Dear SteeleRedux,

I was piqued, putzed, paragraphed, parasoled,
polevaulted in a profuse plethora of P's,
but your comments pretty much pizzazzed me!
(smiley face).

"Plenty" is not a sentence.

mhaze,
Remember Paul Keating's tactic ultimately failed. His seeming obsession over distraction issues like the republic was a huge turnoff for voters, including myself, and it ultimately cost him the election.

Foxy,
Money spent having frequent elections is money well spent. The vast majority of policies that can't make it through the three year electoral cycle are bad ones that we'd be much better off without anyway.

Julia Gillard tried to fix her government's term length. It was a dismal failure.

Dear Aidan,

Julia Gillard was a totally different case.
She was our first female Prime Minister who
had to deal with all that it entailed including
all the obstructions that were put in her path. She
had to also deal with a minority government and
with a very obstructive opposition -
yet she managed to have quite a lot of bills passed.

As for 4 year terms? Many politicians have expressed
the view that it takes one year to prepare for an
election, one year to get anything started once
elected, and the rest of the time is trying to get the
job done in a rediculously short time. Other countries
who do have longer terms have the opportunity to
achieve more depending on the quality of the government.

"Plenty" is not a sentence.

Perhaps.

Foxy we were achieving more than most, until we lost the plot & elected first the total ratbag KRudd, & then the Labor party swapped him for the vicious & vindictive Gillard. We would be paying for a decade or so for those mistakes, if we did not then have the Libs go crazy & put the disgusting Turnbull in the lodge.

Turnbull by himself is stupid enough to get most things wrong, but with him following on the catastrophe of the other 2 twits, we are rather unlikely to ever rectify the accumulative damage.

has anyone ever done the maths to see how much more debt the country would be in if Rudd/Gillard/Rudd has the purse strings for 8 years.

Debt might well be much the same runner, but taxes would be significantly higher.

Dear foxy,

Thank you. It really does beggar belief.

Even today we read reports of Barnaby Joyce's reaction to the Four Corners report on the huge amounts of water being stolen by the big irrigators in collusion with senior NSW government bureaucrats.

"You know what's [the Four Corners program is] all about - it's about them trying to take water off you, [to] paint a calamity," he said, according to the recording. "A calamity, for which the solution is that they're going take more water off you, and shut more of your towns down."

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/stop-greenies-running-the-show-joyce-unloads-on-four-corners-water-report-20170727-gxjp8s.html

Virtually all Australians who saw that episode would have been outraged and viewed at his statement as utterly ludicrous. This from our Deputy Prime Minister. How many more votes do you think he lost the Coalition today? They really need to understand how it looks very much like they are determined to hand Shorten a win. Joyce needs to be stripped of the water ministry forthwith but that will not happen. I repeat my assessment that the Nationals are the best lobby group in the country but it is bringing the rest of us down for their own ends.

Yet all we hear is whining about Turnbull. In reality he is one of the few senior figures of the party who seems to feel measured politics and policy is the way to go. Just mindboggling.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I saw the Four Corners program on the Murray Darling
and I was totally shocked by what was happening
out there. Hopefully the program will result in an
investigation but I won't hold my breath seeing as
the investigators were stopped in their tracks
and not allowed to continue the work that they had
started. There are vested interests involved who are
making a fortune.

Regarding 4 year terms?

I read an opinion piece by former Premier of Victoria
Jeff Kennett in The Age, Wednesday 26th July 2017.
in it Kennett clearly stated (much to my surprise):

"The case for four-year terms for the House of Representative
is so blindingly obvious that any referendum should not
only be supported by all political parties but would, I am
sure, also be backed by the public."

"Why? Four-year fixed terms allows a government to govern for
the long rather than the short term. Britain has five-year
terms, although they're not fixed, and in the United States the
President can serve a maximum of two four year terms."

"You only have to look at the quality of our federal
governments over the past decade to realise we need a more
stable base to maximise opportunities. A big part of their
stability will come from longer terms."

"To those people who have said "We don't want Malcolm Turnbull
for another four years," or "Anything but Bill Shorten for
four years", I say , "Think more broadly."

"This is not about you, it is about the country. The change
might also cause people to reflect more seriously when they
vote."

"What upsets me is that politicians having raised this issue,
are again just talking but not acting. Why would you want to
defer a referendum until after the next federal election?"

"The need to give the newly elected government a four-year term
from the next election exists right now. The referendum should
be held before December 31 or at least before June 30 next year
if the government will guarantee it will not hold a general
election before then."

cont'd...

cont'd ...

Dear SteeleRedux,

Continuing Jeff Kennett's opinion piece:

"If it will not give that guarantee the referendum
should be in the next five months."

"I would also reduce the terms of Senators to four years,
with their election to be held at the same time as the
Lower House."

"I know how valuable four-year terms can be. Without them
we may not have been able to rebuild Victoria's economic
base in the 1950s."

"Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull must stop talking and act.
Hold the referendum for four-year terms this year so it can
be implemented from the next general election. Otherwise
we might not see any change for a minimum of six years and
short-termism would continue to dominate our politics."

"Shorten raised the issue. Turnbull said he would consider it -
let's see if they're prepared to be genuine leaders."

Shorten's first priority SHOULD be to introduce some intra-democracy in the Labor Party.

How often has that failing been criticised?

Because ordinary members are disenfranchised. Powerful factions give career politicians like Shorten the inside running and then catapult them into senior positions. Not only in parties either but in roles controlled and influenced by government.

Parliament has a PEOPLE problem. People like Shorten. Career politicians.

Tacking on another year is what Shorten would want, because Shorten is always out for Number One.

Shorten would bitterly resist the fairness, commonsense and widening of the field of talent that intra-democracy in Labor might foster. Shorten has zero credibility in Labor too.

Foxy you have to stop falling for green left propaganda.

It is that failed state South Australia that is trying to steal eastern states water, to fill their water-ski damn.

Dear Hassie,

If you would have watched the Four Corners program
and I assume you did not because if you had you
would not be making the statements that you are,
where the ordinary people actually involved in the
investigations, plus the farmers who live in the region
related their experiences so matter-of-factly
you would I'm sure realise that this is not
an attempt at so called "propaganda". Greens or
anyone elses. And you're
thinking makes me question -
what and whose propaganda are you falling
for?

Foxy the ABC, & fellow traveling media can always find a few malcontents to support the propaganda they are pushing.

Then by immoral editing of others they can have the compliant viewer believing their rubbish.

It is also not unheard of for some money to change hands, & for the staging of stunts for the camera.

Have you forgotten the live export program, which was proven to be a stunt?

I have not watched any of this ABC, SBS produced garbage, as I don't like being lied to. 4 corners & a couple of others are equally loose with anything resembling the truth.

Dear Hassie,

Regarding your critiques of the ABC and
SBS - what media outlet is truly unbiased?
Or for that matter - what person?

For me - the ABC and SBS are less so.
That's why I watch their programs.
Their investigative journalists, especially
on the Four Corners program do a good job.

You don't agree - that's fine. That's your opinion.
Mine just happens to differ from yours.

Hi Foxy, talking to my friend today, hope to see at least one new face in the Senate after the next election. Big smiley face from me.

Tell me you understand what I am saying.

Dear Paul,

I think I understand.

Are you talking about the 22 year old from WA?

LOL, shouldn't you two be meeting behind the toilets in recess rather than exchanging notes in schoolgirl code?

leoj,

If you bring Chupa Chups, M&M's, or my favourite -
Cadbury Freddo Frogs - we'll let you join in
this conversation and give you all the code words.

Leoj, can't wait for that mate of yours, the One Nation A-hole to be flicked from the Senate. Come to think of it Roberts has been polishing a Senate seat for some time now, without actually doing anything. Another One Nation drone the taxpayer has to feed. You would think the lovely Pauline would throw him a feed of fish n' chips and save the taxpayer.

Foxy, we have Senate pre-selection in NSW shortly.

Dear Foxy,

Hasbeen spouting on about something he has not watched, or read, or hear is pretty well his default setting. Hardly any surprise there. Pugnacious ignorance is his shtick and he has shown little inclination for changing.

However I did come across a neat little response to ignorant trolling from the Norwegian public broadcaster.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/nrk-norwegian-news-site-comments-read-story-understand-post-quiz-questions-a7607246.html

To comment people have to answer questions about the article first.

The of course the concern that if the ABC or even OLO were to institute it would disenfranchise people like Hasbeen but a small price to pay me thinks.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Thanks for the link.

It would be great for this Forum if it were applied.

However, I don't think that it would be taken on board here.
Imagine how much of the patronage the Forum would lose
if posters were checked for toxicity and comprehension.

Dear Paul,

I shall be watching the news for the NSW Senate
preselection results for the Greens. I know who
I'll be wishing makes it. They will have to renounce
their dual citizenship though and pronto.

mhaze,

Further to what I was saying before, you can expect a huge rise in Bill Shorten's disapproval rating next week. He was doing so well up until this point, but his promise of a bad plan for another republican referendum or two has made him look desperate and out of touch. If Albo wants the top job he should challenge now!

____________________________________________________________________________________

Foxy,
I didn't say Julia Gillard was a failure. She made a few mistakes but overall (despite being a Rudd supporter) I think she did pretty well.

But her fixing the date of the election was almost universally acknowledged as a mistake. The economic disruption normally seen in election campaigns became a permanent fixture.

Britain shows just how much of a disaster longer terms are. The more time governments have before an election, the more damage they can do.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Hasbeen,
"Have you forgotten the live export program, which was proven to be a stunt?"
Really? Where is the proof?

Anyway, the 4 Corners episode is at http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/four-corners/NC1704H024S00
Watch it and you'll find that, far from being a call to cut water allocations, it's a serious investigation into water theft and fraud and the NSW government's failure to take the issue seriously.

BTW, the water would never have reached the lower lakes. Instead it would have gone into the Menindee lakes, and its theft threatened Broken Hill's water supply.

Dear Aidan,

Thank You for sharing your views.

I tend to agree with Jeff Kennett's.

I like to think that we are different from the UK.
The only thing our governments have in common is
the Mace.

I've got a question for anyone who knows the
answer.

Does anyone know where one of our most regular
posters on this forum - David Fisher is?
David used to post regularly and we have not
heard from him for some time. Does anyone
know if he's ill or where he's gone?

Thank You.

Sorry Foxy I can't answer that one. I hope David is well, and did nothing more than give it away, as many past regulars have. As there is no private messaging on the forum, it is impossible to ask.

Just noticed your post about Senate pre-selection. There is only one other realistic candidate up against Lee Rhiannon. I have spoken with my choice and I have wished her well, and offered whatever support I can give. Despite what you might read on here posted by him, I have never aligned myself with any particular person or group within the party. On issues, I tend to be a pragmatic center right person, but that is in the context of progressive politics. From talking to others, I look forward to change at the federal level, and I think its coming, but not without a fight.

Dear Paul,

Thanks for responding.

I do hope that David comes back and posts. I do miss him.

I watched a TV program recently on the problems that Lee
Rhiannon is causing for the Greens. Hopefully she'll
not get voted back in and somebody else will be given a
chance. Someone who's more of a team player. Still, I guess
the Liberals have their own problems as well - with Tony
Abbott. And of course there's Cory Bernardi stirring the
pot. Then we have Barnaby Joyce whose future is not set
in concrete one would hope. And Julie Bishop did her
position a dis-service with her recent hysteria. As for
Mr Turnbull - the less said the better. Interesting times
ahead.

Hi Foxy, I also watched the 4 Corners program. Don't get me wrong, I have tremendous respect for Lee Rhiannon. We may not always agree on issues, but she has been a tireless and committed worker for the progressive side of politics. Lee has made a significant contribution over many years, no one can deny that.

Dear Paul,

You probably know more about Lee Rhiannon than I do.
However I have to admit that I found her actions
over the public school funding of going behind the
wishes of her own party and undermining their
decisions somewhat disturbing. Also the fact that
all the previous leaders of the Greens seem to find
her self-interest to be greater than anything else
is concerning.

Hi Foxy, I do know Lee and have spoken with her many times, even spent time door knocking together,. Actually a likable person, easy to talk to. But on the political side very driven, and I can't deny what others say. I think the education issue was handled badly by all, I was on the side of the leadership and the majority of Senators.
In the Senate pre-selection in NSW I am supporting a good friend who is also a candidate. Not just because she is a friend, but because she would make an outstanding Senator.