' For instance, there is a definition of the term indigenous based on blood quotum to be eligible.'

well Nana, that rules out all those privilged ones that were on Q & A last night. I wonder how many flew first class from Ulluru to Canberra. Enjoying the benefits of what the British and others brought to this nation.

Paul,

Re your Tuesday, 30 May 2017 5:35:42 AM

Of course, I don't disagree with the stats that Foxy so helpfully put up. My worry is that

(a) all the farting around won't make a bit of difference to neglect, abuse, unemployment, sickness and incarceration rates: let's come back in ten years and see :)

And

(b) that, in a cute back-handed way, people still manage to down-cry Indigenous success, in at least one crucial area, AND somehow (in a back-handed sway) tie success by some to non-success by others. Surely, as I keep saying, any success is a pointer to what can be done, and an example for ALL Indigenous people to what can be achieved, and that they don't have to go along with the misery-gutted, paranoid Narrative that all is lost, whites are all-powerful so nothing can be done, what can you do ?

On that last point, I shouldn't have to point out that what about half of the Indigenous population is, or will be, doing - i.e. enrolling in mainstream university courses, is entirely their right: in no way, should it be tied to some racist demand that, well, if they have been shown this favour they should devote their entire careers to working with their people out in the sticks. No, they have as much right as you or I to do whatever they damn-well like, work where they like, live where they like, marry who they like.

Just getting in first ;)

The bottom line is, ultimately, it is primarily up to rural and remote people to work out how to solve their own problems since nobody else can solve, or obviously has solved, those horrible problems. That's why it's called 'self-determination'. 'Helping' doesn't mean doing it for them.

People make choices; people also make brilliant decisions; people also make dreadful mistakes. Which is okay, as long as they have the means to correct those mistakes, without doing even more damage.

Joe

Dear Joe,

I fully agree with what you've stated in your last post.
I brought up the topic of self-determination in an
earlier post of mine. However what is needed is a formal
structure of some sort (I'm not sure of the legalities)
for our Indigenous people to be able to do just that.
At the moment they don't have that control.

Paul,

Is Mise got in first: ""...Aboriginal people assuming their rightful place in Australian society, not as inferiors, but as equals."

Yes, indeed, I'm glad that somebody at last understands the possibility of people being equal AND different: since the 1980s, many 'progressives' have opposed equality (yes, crazy isn't it ?) on the grounds that equality = sameness, and they weren't the 'same'. Of course bloody not ! No two people on earth are the same, yet every one of us IS equal to any other.

So I'm glad someone has recognised that equality is not the enemy.

So what rights DON'T Indigenous people have in Australia ? What extra rights (oops, we're moving away from 'equal') do people want, or should they have ? Of course, Native Title. Of course, community control - and responsibility. But what else ? i.e. what should be in a Treaty ? [Or multiple treaties].

Presumably a Treaty has to be more than a blank sheet of paper ('but it'll be OUR blank sheet of paper'). What are we all going to be asked to sign up to ? What's going to be in it that we agree on ?

So three options:

* go with existing frameworks to enforce and protect Indigenous people's rights like those of any other Australians';

* change the Constitution for some reason (certainly get rid of those minor clauses), to do something or other with Indigenous rights that can't be done with existing legislation and policy mechanisms;

and/or

* enshrine it all in a Treaty (or treaties), (but maybe run it through multiple deliberative committees first).

So all this straining at gnats surely has to be worth it ? Surely there has to be some point to it all, to why we should vote on something, all of us Australians, equally ?

Joe

Dear Joe,

Absolutely brilliant!

Dear Foxy,

How do you mean, that people in 'communities' don't have control ? Maybe not 'responsibility' but every decent-sized 'community' would have a council. 'Communities' usually even control who can visit, and for how long, and who can't. The councils usually control who gets jobs, houses, Toyotas etc.

No, perhaps they can't control the social processes that have been brought into being by the 'interaction' between a foraging culture and a Western culture. That interaction does seem to have produced some quite dysfunctional processes of their own. Maybe the people on those councils are not equipped to deal with those problematic processes, or even to be aware of them, or necessarily want to change them.

More and more whitefellas, doing more and more, won't amount to giving people more 'control', Foxy. Self-determination surely means that the people themselves have to confront their own problems ?

Love,

Joe