Thanks, AJ, apology accepted :)

In English 'we' is quite ambiguous: is it meant exclusively, just 'me and you'; or does I refer to 'all of us' ?

In Bahasa Indonesia, a beautiful language, there are two words for 'we' or 'us', ('kami' and 'kita': I forget which is which) one exclusive to just the speaker and the person spoken to; and the other meaning, a general 'we', everybody.

I can understand your complete confusion :)

I'd still dispute your straw-man: I'm sure that many Australians would be aware of something of the variety of sects and beliefs within Islam, not least between Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Ahmaddiyah and Ismailiyah. Not to mention the north African sect from the late nineteenth century that believed that the true Messiah was yet to be born, and would be born properly to a man, not a dirty woman, so they all wore huge baggy trousers. I'm not sure how they perceived the birth process.

Joe

There was no apology, Joe. Nor was there a straw man.

Some here are arguing that there is strong reason to suggest that Yassmin lied. I presented a case as to why we can't be so sure about that.

The comment you're picking on was a sidenote. I can retract it completely if you'd like. It makes no difference to my argument.

There was no straw man, unless you want to argue that no one here is suggesting that Yassmin lied. You gave it a good shot, though.

Hi AJ,

" ..... why do we assume that every Muslim must believe the same things about Islam?"

So what idiot does that ? A straw man perhaps ?

Sure seems like one to me :)

But you're forgiven, now we can move on. I hope.

Joe

Joe,

ttbn thinks like that for starters. Apart from that, I've already explained why it wasn't a straw man. Ironically, though, your focusing on a sidenote of mine while ignoring my argument is more of a straw man.

Another example of people thinking like that, Joe, is when quotation marks put around the word 'moderate', when referring to moderate Muslims, to imply that there is no such thing. You do that.

This from the left whinge ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-03/linda-sarsour-hijabi-feminism/8583482

"Arguments over the veil and the purity culture surrounding it have long divided Muslim women.

But now, thanks to the shaming of girls murdered in a terrorist attack at an Ariana Grande concert as "whores", the split has spilled out into the open.

Self-styled "homegirls in hijabs" — like New York militant Linda Sarsour — and many of their progressive western backers afraid of being labelled racist or "Islamophobic" are staying silent or downplaying the anti-women Islamist ideology linked to the terror strike in Manchester.

Meanwhile, their reformist Muslim sisters are speaking out and asking why figures who hold such conservative views around modesty are held up by feminists and sections of the media as representative of Muslim women, and as role models and progressives, when they're not."