leoj,

You just can't help yourself can you?

I could say that "a good discussion is like
a balloon one little prick is all it takes to
ruin it." But I won't play your game.

Instead I will politely tell you to go back
and read my posts.

Or not.

Frankly I really don't care.

Foxy,

You mean you only like Peter Costello when you can out your own spin on cherry-picked bits?

But Peter Costello's view of the Senate is no different from Paul Keating's, excepting that Keating was less kind.

There needs to be balance. And it is a simple, incontrovertible fact that the Senate they were criticising was obstructive as is the present one. That is what proportional voting does. That is the proof of the pudding.

Now you can try to take it out on the humble messenger (as you are rudely doing), but the evidence plainly is that it hasn't got much to do with the 'two party system', but with the opportunism of the Greens protest party, other independents and the obstructive Labor as it is at present (and Labor leadership is being criticised for that from within Labor).

If you really wanted improvement you would be seconding the call for some internal democracy in the Labor Party and for the Greens to wake up to themselves and do some work.

leoj,

Yes there does need to be a balance.

When you're able to provide us with one
in your discussions on any issue without
your attacks, condemnations and finger-pointing
at others I may engage with you. For now -
See'ya.

Enjoy your evening.

Hi Foxy, I am actually a paid up member of The Greens, I make no secret of that. Why did I quit the Labor Party and joint The Greens, considering I am not an overly committed environmentalist, although I respect those who are, and I respect the environment and the issues it presents . The Greens offered alternative policies, particularly on social justice, which I strongly support. At the time the ALP was, under Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, and in NSW with Bob Carr they were becoming less committed to social justice, and more to populists polices with an eye to their electability. Something I was not overly enthusiastic about, abandoning Labor principles for the sake of short term power grabbing. .

At the grass roots level The Greens are far more democratic than both the Labor Party and the Conservatives. The membership have the voice when it comes to policy formulation through the Delegates Council, and are also responsible for the nomination of all candidates seeking electoral endorsement, something you do not find in other political parties.

http://nsw.greens.org.au/structure-constitution

Leo, pull the other leg! You claim to be an supporter of "freedom of speech" and a moderate, yet you want to deny millions of Australian who did not vote for the big two parties a voice through representation, a strange paradox indeed. You strenuously avoid criticizing the far right of Australian politics, like the lovely Pauline Hanson. So where do you stand?

Paul1405,

I reckon you would be far better off not giving Hanson publicity.

leoj,
The senate refusing to pass bad legislation is evidence of responsibility, not irresponsibility.