The all knowing, all seeing LeoW, how does a committed Hansonite and retired member of the 'White Shoe Brigade', who is now loafing on the beach become a pseudo Christian/Buddists, do you have to believe Jesus Christ has reincarnated as the Lovely Pauline or some such thing.
The only one here with a morbid hatred of anything, is The Greens fixated Leo. Every post of yours contains some rancid rant about the Greens.
I note your oft quoted beacon of the Labor Party, and once political wannabe, Mark Latam has been given the royal order of the boot by Labor, smart move I would say, what was Labor thinking when they gave such a pathetic loser the leadership.

Hi Joe, I don't want to be seen as defending Islam, today it is as regressive as Christianity once was. However there was a period in history during the Dark/Middle Ages of Western Europe, about 800-1200 AD, when Western learning was at a low ebb. During that period it was in the Islamic world that advances in the sciences were still being made.
It is interesting that the first book published by Gutenberg in about 1455 was the Bible printed in Latin, it had an equivalent value of about $5,000 in today's money, so not for the average poor illiterate. All early books were religious publications, the Koran was first printed in Venice in 1530. The first printing was most likely done in China around the eighth century. I am not surprised that the first printing press did not appear in the Ottoman world until 1824, although some claim it was more likely in about 1720. The Ottoman sultans were fearful of religious interference by printers. However they did not apply the same restrictions to Christian and Hebrew religious text, which were freely available without restriction. There was printing in the Middle East from earlier times, but like that of European printing it seems to have been mostly religious text and little else. With few being able to read, printing was for most of no value. Pamphlet printing which helped to spread modern thinking did not come into common practice until the 1700's, by the time of the French Revolution political pamphlets were in wide circulation.
Is religious thinking compatible with modern realities? Or are the two always going to be diametrically opposed for ever. One being based on blind faith, while the other requires evidence of proof. How do the religious rationalized both as being acceptable.

Paul1405,

I am only responding to your posts, of which there are many and you do tout for the NSW Greens Watermelons. So, naturally enough they do rate a mention. But you already know that and you are just playing silly forum games.

Labor, other political Parties too, should value the canaries like Latham (and Hanson too for another opposing view but a similar reflection of what is wrong with the major parties), for they are early predictors of problems. Just like the canaries in the mines and meaning no disrespect.

Business and especially entrepreneurs learned to value, not disregard, the critical customer, for his contribution to continuous improvement. But alas, the political parties simply ape what they see 'works' (and later somehow fails) overseas, while having no regard for feedback in their own electorates, or where they do it is from their own 'soldiers'. Then they express surprise at an 'unkind' electorate that throws them out of office on their ear.

You do need to pull your head out of that echo chamber though Paul1405 and who knows, you might just find that those wealthy greens elite are just serving themselves and you will always be out there in the cold, while they have their travel, rooftop gardens and so on, courtesy of you too if you are a taxpayer.

It is time the Greens was more than a protest party, or continue to fade away.

Leo, I at least credit Latham with a degree of intelligence, compliments of the Labor Party. No doubt the bloke still harbors political ambition, seeing himself as the future Senator Latham. Unfortunately for him, as one of Labor's failures of yesterday no such opportunity existed within. Latham jumps ship onto the deck of the phony, and deceitful, not so liberal, not so democratic, Liberal Democrats, who will offer a chance of a cushy senate seat. His pious platitudes will soon give way to reveal nothing more than personal ambition.

Hanson, lacks the necessary intelligence required for leadership. As previously shown the woman is easily manipulated by others of the radical right for political gain. The so called leader of the out and out protest party One Nation offers nothing more than an acceptable face, with her somewhat homespun persona, only to be manipulated by her ever present puppet masters. Like so many other lemmings you are charging headlong on that monetary wave of populism. Sorry to disappoint, but when you wake up to find that you have been duped by yet another false messiah, it maybe too late and the demagogues have actually taken over. On the other hand you may feel good if that should happen, then you could see us Greens and others of the left, center and conservative right, dealt with just how you would like.

p/s; "canaries like Latham (and Hanson" more like a pair of galah's,
"wealthy greens elite" you should look at Hanson and her wroughting of the electoral system for financial gain, a past master. Then there are the liberal elite like Turnbull who profit from their positions in society. Leo you are the one being duped.

Hi Paul,

This is getting well away from the topic, but I have to question whether or not the touted bloom of Islamic science etc. ever happened - or whether it was a matter of Jewish and Christian scholars in Spain borrowing and copying the ancient works already being copied in Christian monasteries especially around Byzantium/Constantinople.

I wish someone would outline a single innovation by Moorish 'scientists' in Spain, just one, which didn't have an obvious Greek or Indian thumb-print.

Yes, there were advances in mathematics under the Muslims, but (this is probably getting a bit picky) they seemed to come from scholars in central Asia (al-Khorazm, for instance) or from India, rather than from the heartland of Islam.

And please don't talk about Moorish architecture: all authoritarian regimes, from the Nazis to Stalin to North Korea, go on about their amazing architecture, they love it. The Catalan historian Vicens Vives suggests that the Moors had fifty thousand slaves, from all corners of Europe and north Africa, to do all that in Spain.

BTT: how is the elevation of the Whanganui River to personhood playing out in NZ ?

Cheers,

Joe