With the Turnbul government floundering around trying to decide how best to find an approach to this issue that pleases everyone (impossible), I have no doubt business leaders are dumbfounded with the lack of direction shown by Turnbul and his ministers.

They (business leaders) have no doubt spent countless hours and millions of dollars on submissions that were clearly of substance only to learn it was a waste of time, effort and money as regardless of what the so called 'interdependent umpire' came up with, the issue is still up in the air so as to say.

They must be thinking to themselves, why bother, and lets face it, who can really blame them.

This government needs to either grow some balls, or step aside and let someone show them the way, because business will only stand for so much before they say, "it's all just too hard". Then what!

You are a real bleeder. To mess with workers entitlement is fraught with danger. Wake up to yourself butch. If 50 percent coffee shops need to close up so be it..get over it.

Some employers are refusing to reduce the incomes of their employees and displaying the fact outside their businesses. I expect Rehctub will be among them, thus avoiding the uncertainty he complains of. You are, aren't you Rehctub?

Actually EJ my business is not effected by the rates as ours have not changed. Still 125% Saturdays and 150% Sundays however its the restaurants that have been most effected, so those who are closed now will stay closed, (no winners) and those who pay cash will continue to do so.

Doog, are you aware that prior to 2008 (Julia) the rates were where the commission has recomended they be. So how is that erroding workers rights. Where are the employers rights?

All employed people have a catagory they identify with and that does not discriminate.
Ad dot fiddling with the fair work commission that was at arms length from govt, was the controlling body.
Govt now think they can bypass that stumbling block.

Doog, the majority of employees are employed by small business, risk takers.

If you increase the risk, or as in this case, ignore their pleas, a lot of jobs are at potential risk. So be careful what you wish for.

Why should workers subsidise your failing business.. Grossly unnessasary.

It has nothing to do with a failing business, its simply unsustainable for many to be opening on a Sunday and making so much less, when the staff get 100% more.

Nobody is taking anything away as they didnt have this 200% rate prior to Julias brain fart.

But hey, what would i know, ive just spent the past 40 years in retail.

The cost of running a coffee shop includes materials, overheads and wages.

The cost of wages are already worked out over the days they intend to open and therefore should already take penalty rates into account.
The price you pay for a cup of coffee is typically the same every day.

Therefore the price you pay on Monday already includes the cost incurred by penalty rates on Sunday, so reducing penalty rates should either result in more employment or lower prices.

If they can't afford to pay 3 people at 200%, then why would they employ 4 people at 150% - it's the same cost (more if you take payroll tax into account).

If this reduction doesn't result in lower prices or more employment as they claim, then they should agree to to reinstate penalty rates.

Otherwise it will be seen as no more than the cheap grab for more profits it really is.

It's just a stupid rant. Worker funded subsidy. A gross mis justice. What sort of confidence is in a cup of coffee. The figures are a token gesture, but any figure is absolutely outrageous.

Rache and Doog, you may not see this now but here goes anyway.

Coffee shops are not the real victims, restaurants are and this is why.

For a $100 spend here is the industry standard breakdown. $30 cost of goods, $35 wages (normal rates) $10 GST (close enough) which leaves $25 to pay the bills and make a profit.

Now if you take Sundays, the food cost and GST are the same, but the wages are now $70, leaving a loss of $10 before paying the bills and making a profit. This is why many are closed on Sundays and PH's.

Now pubs and clubs are no so badly effected, for two main reasons, one being pokies, the other being no table service. Qualities restaurants don't expect you to wait for the buzzer and collect your own meal, and they most certainly don't have pokies.

Follow the lead butch and close on Sunday. Or get a cow bell and do what big venues do.

I don't take you as stupid Doog, so you must be ignorant, because for the last time MY BUSINESS HAS NOT BEEN EFFECTED! GET IT!

I would like to say that the government should be able to put out some help to the small businesses that need it, if only to encourage industry and entrepreneurship, but there will always be someone else further down the line who will suffer from that decision. The problem we're really going to have to worry about is that while costs are "decreasing", prices of the final goods aren't.

webbrowan, I have been a retail butcher for 40 years tomorrow to be exact, 28 of those in my own business.

Back in 89 when I bought my first shop, my turnover was $8,000 per week, my GP was 28% and my rent was less than 2% of my turnover. There was no super, no work place health and safety levies etc and very little government red tape to speak of, and I had one staff member costing me about $500 per week for his 55 hours, which left me with a net profit of about $1500 per week, which was enormous in those days.

The reality is, and this is relevant to your comments, if I had that same shop today, turning over the same amount with the 28% GP, I would go broke. In fact, your typical small retail butcher today must have a GP of at least 50% just to make a small wage, the 'buying ones self a job scenario'.

It's all the additional costs that have led to the consumer paying more than double for their goods, while at the same time seeing owners making far less in actual dollars, let along in adjusted terms.

This is why so many small businesses today either close on Sundays, or pay cash to their workers, simply because the wages, especially those at 200% are unaffordable for those who want to run a legitimate business.

With all the talk about not wanting to cut penilty rates, rarely do you hear mention of the needs of the business, only ever the employee who only has a job in the first place due to someone tking a risk, sometimes a huge one at that as so many loose their houses over failed businesses and its not always due to incompitence or poor management.