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The Forum > General Discussion > Not Happy, Malcolm and others

Not Happy, Malcolm and others

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An Ipso Global Survey suggests that 70 per cent of Australians want a “strong leader” to “wrest power back from the elites” and to “close the doors on the rest of the world”. While the closing of doors on the rest of the world might need some tuning, there is no doubt that the sap is rising in Australians – in the majority of them at least.

Apparently 'elites' and 'experts' are really on the nose for their lack of understanding about the lives of the average person. I am not at ease with the “strong leader” bit; shades of dictatorship there. Democratic governments are meant to govern only with our permission. I think we have too many drongos trying to 'lead' us (by the nose) as it is. As Donald Trump said, it doesn't matter which party controls government, so long as the government is controlled by the PEOPLE.

According to the survey, Australians are the 10th most fed up, after the UK, France Israel, Italy, South Korea, Turkey, India, Poland, Belgian and Peru.

Replace 'leader' with 'catalyst' (someone who can jolt us into thinking and acting for ourselves), and we could be well on the way to change. Who is that person in Australia? Gawd only knows
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 22 January 2017 10:09:14 AM
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Well, whoever he or she is, they ain't Liberal, National, Labor or Greens, (or any protege of/mixture of them).

.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 22 January 2017 1:46:40 PM
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Right, Is Mise. No professional politicians already oinking around the trough. But we don't have a Trump, and we don't look like getting one any time soon. I really don't think that it is going to happen for us. Unless Trump casts us off, and we have to start looking after ourselves?
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 22 January 2017 4:16:14 PM
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I've found a speech given a few years ago by
Gareth Evans on "Australia's Asian Future."
Although, it's an old speech - I feel it is
very relevant to today. It's worth a read:

http://www.gevans.org/speeches/speech423.html
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 January 2017 7:07:59 PM
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Dear ttbn,

Is this really the kind of man you want for Australia?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-real-donald-trump-a-bully-fraud-incompetent-who-has-wrecked-countless-lives-a7384421.html
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 January 2017 9:01:08 AM
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Foxy,

Gareth Evans. The sneering character who wished for us a 'coffee-coloured Australia', as he slinked off to off to a UN sinecure after helping drown Australia in socialism. Not a good example of anything for me, Foxy. God old Gareth is still snouting it at the UN, I believe.

Trump and The Independent? I always look carefully at the source of these stories, and ask, is it true? I have never found the media, even the so-called right wing media, to necessarily be a font of truth and reliability. I am prepared to trust individuals without an axe to grind, but institutions and the media - nuh. Of course, the story might be true. Trump could be a bad egg, and I have never expressed any admiration for him as a person. Donald Trump,the man, is not important. President Trump and what he can do for America and, hopefully, for the Free World, is what counts. Think back to our own Bob Hawke: in my view, a man of dubious character,a drunk who behaved disgracefully to his wife but, nonetheless, a great contributor as PM. The best person for the job is not always, perhaps never, the nicest person you could hope to meet. I sense that 'nice' is important to you, and that is nice in itself. But, when it comes to the nitty gritty, we often have to compromise to get things done.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 23 January 2017 10:10:42 AM
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It is incredible how that some know what a person is like after one day on the job. Where is your expertise in this area of recognition.
Trump said a lot and so did Abbott, and he turned out to be a fraud.
I believe in the will of the people, and if that does not work out then you jump up and down.
Trump may be good or he may be idiotic by his own nature.
This TTbn bloke can pick a winner before one is even born. Obama could not persuade any support for gun laws. Trump may only get what they allow him also.
Posted by doog, Monday, 23 January 2017 10:18:57 AM
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Dear ttbn,

You can judge a person by their actions.
Donald Trump is being judged by his around
the world and in America.
Here is just one person's reaction taken from the
Los Angeles Times (there's heaps more on the web):

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-trump-inaugural-address-20170120-story.html

"We have a man who has major conflicts of interest, refuses
to release his tax returns, spews lies and hateful rhetoric,
disdains the press, declares NATO to be obsolete, encourages
other nations to develop nuclear weapons, promotes an agenda
that will make the rich richer and the poor poorer, may
destroy the rights of women and minorities, could bring our
nation into conflict with major world powers (most
frightening of all) and destroy all efforts to protect our
environment from the ravages of climate change. The world is not
celebrating today. Neither am I."

The world agrees as do so many Americans.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 23 January 2017 11:56:15 AM
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Foxy,

There are no competitions here. All I can say is that, were I an American, I would be very pleased to have Trump as president. As an Australian, I am much more pleased with Trump's ideas than I was with Obama's. I hope Trump doesn't louse up America as much as Obama did. You do tend to judge politicians the same way you judge other people. I do not. There is a world of difference between politicians and us.

You might be surprised then that I was very impressed by the way Obama left office; he did it with dignity and in a thoroughly gentlemanly way. I was particularly moved by the way he, on more than one occasion, he admonished his loonier supporters not to boo every time Trump's name was mentioned.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 23 January 2017 4:52:39 PM
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PS Foxy,

Can you tell me why anyone would want to see Trump's tax returns? Have other presidents been asked to pull out their tax returns? I think it's all sour grapes and poor 'losership' from people who were so sure that Trump could not win. I also believe that these poor losers do not believe in democracy when it doesn't work their way. I'm thankful that the Australian culture is different.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 23 January 2017 4:58:24 PM
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Dear ttbn,

Regarding President Trump's tax returns?

There has to be a surety that there
is no conflict of interests concerning his
ever evolving global business affairs. Namely
has he broken any law. How much tax does he
pay, does he use tax havens? It seems that
there is some difficulty getting around Trump's
business conglomerates which are a patchwork
of "artful" deals, strategy changes, bankruptcies,
carefully laid plans, et cetera. He's said
himself that as far as business is concerned -
"I play it very loose..."

In the USA history suggests that institutions
tend to dominate personalities, Trump will not
be the exception. He will undoubtedly face the
same institutional constraints as any other
president - that of Congress and the Courts.

The success of other strong-willed presidents
has ultimately been due to the degree to which
they were politically restrained. For example
Lyndon B. Johnson was praised for his political
skill, but he gained legislative victories mainly
through strong partisan support in Congress while
Richard Nixon's opposition from Congress was
ultimately his undoing.

We'll have to wait and see what happens with President
Trump. He got in on promises that may not work -
like less immigration and a new protectionism (this
goes against the Constitution and American values).
Plus more infrastructure spending (where's the money
going to come from?).

Interesting times ahead.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 11:32:48 AM
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Ahhh Foxy & others,
Like virtually all of us Gareth Evens was schooled in geography with
Mercadors projection on out school walls.
Therefore we have no idea of the shape of the world.
At least those of us schooled in radio learnt very quickly about
Great Circle paths and to realise that Peking is much closer to Berlin
than it is to Australia.

So why are the Europeans not told that they are part of Asia ?
After all they live on the same block !
Paris is closer to Asia than Brisbane is to Melbourne !

Then another thing a degree of latitude is bigger in the northern
hemisphere than it is in the Sothern henispher on Mercadors projection.
Then most do not realise that Indonesia, the Phillipines and
New Guinea are not in Asia.
So our Foreign Minister who negotiated with other countries did not
even know where Australia was located.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 1:33:11 PM
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Dear Bazz,

I think that Gareth Evans knew full well that
Australia is not an Asian country geographically
of culturally. However we are located in the
Asia Pacific region and the point that he was making
was that we should focus more on opportunities for
trade with our region and possibly have a less USA
dependent future. Given the newly elected American
President's views of a new protectionism and
isolationism of things American - Gareth Evans'ideas
don't seem so out of date.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 2:22:00 PM
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Foxy,

Were you able to find when or if such suspicion has ever been directed against an incoming president - the day after he took office? Republican or Democrat. Given the highly unusual reaction in America, by some Americans, including Republicans, to the election of Trump, I think that some credence must be given to the idea that the demand for tax returns could be part of what, to me, appears to be a gigantic hissy fit by Clinton supporters.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 2:57:20 PM
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ttbn: "Can you tell me why anyone would want to see Trump's tax returns? Have other presidents been asked to pull out their tax returns?"

They weren't 'asked', since the 1960s, they just did it, with the exception of Ford. Why would anyone want to see them? It's not so much people wanting to see them, it's a sign of good faith in a world where there is much suspicion of politicians.

And you can download the lot of them at https://www.efile.com/1040-federal-income-tax-forms-for-every-tax-year-and-tax-return-history/.

"Presidents of the United States make their tax returns a matter of public record. However, the practice of releasing returns as president or when running for office didn't become commonplace until the late 1960's. In the run-up to the 1968 presidential election, George Romney (the governor of Michigan at the time) released 12 years of his returns from 1955-1966 after being pressed by reporters. This set the precedent for presidential candidates to release their tax returns. Every president from Richard Nixon onward has made their tax returns public. The only exception was Gerald Ford, who kept his tax returns private.

The tax returns of the presidents and presidential candidates presented below are publicly available and are of historical interest (we at efile.com never share your personal information)."

https://www.efile.com/1040-federal-income-tax-forms-for-every-tax-year-and-tax-return-history/
Posted by Cossomby, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 3:23:02 PM
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Bazz
The US "Indians" from Mongolia help teachers see that US is Asian.
Like China , the US gunmen revolutionaries removed the English tea-trade party. However in Hong Kong the red revolt was much more gentlemanly and decent than Yankee chappies , what?
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 3:27:28 PM
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ttbn: "Given the highly unusual reaction in America, by some Americans, including Republicans, to the election of Trump, I think that some credence must be given to the idea that the demand for tax returns could be part of what, to me, appears to be a gigantic hissy fit by Clinton supporters."

No, releasing tax returns has been so standard over the last 50 years, that Trump NOT revealing his tax returns stands out! Even apart from his other characteristics, this would have aroused suspicion. Indeed, it would have raised suspicions about any Presidential candidate, including (especially) Hilary Clinton. Imagine what the Republicans would have said if she had refused...
Posted by Cossomby, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 3:28:59 PM
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Dear ttbn,

Here's another link for you:

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/web/presidentialtaxreturns
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 4:50:41 PM
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OK, some presidents have chosen to produce tax returns. There is no compulsion to do so, and Trump has chosen not to produce his. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his decision, evidently.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 6:18:01 PM
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Dear ttbn,

He will be pressured to produce his tax returns
due to the fact that a President cannot have
a conflict of interest as far as his business
connections go. There are questions that need
answering. Constitutionally he will be obligated
to provide the answers.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 6:41:37 PM
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cont'd ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-23/trump-will-conform-or-be-removed-former-bush-adviser-says/8205094
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 6:44:32 PM
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I think I have noticed something which no one else has commented about.
Do I detect a male vs female trend weaving its way through the Trump,
brexit, deplorables noise ? The female demo around the world for example.

I also see it in that females seem much more reserved in their comments
about Islam. After all the assaults on women, the Sharia law restrictions
on women in needing guardians etc etc would seem made for feminan outrage.
Where is the sisterhood ? Compare the trigger finger when it
comes to anything men might say in western countries they are
absolutely silent when it comes to Islam.
Men may react more strongly as it is natural reaction to protect our women.
It is just the way of nature.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 8:48:36 PM
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US women aren't up against an Islamic President or the noise would be a shriek. Some women are pilots in Iraq and make noises.
Posted by nicknamenick, Tuesday, 24 January 2017 9:04:56 PM
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Similarly,

Would you like this crook to lead you?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/industrial-relations/cleanevent-staff-lost-400m-under-deal-by-bill-shortens-awu/news-story/62300ed88eeb832e95689e9413ea90b6
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-failed-to-disclose-40000-donation-from-labour-hire-company-unibilt-to-his-2007-election-campaign-20150707-gi7elj.html
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 9:29:01 AM
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What's the difference. We had this one:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tony-abbott-owns-rort-problems-20131008-2v6kl.html
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 2:17:05 PM
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I'm leaving those wanting to continue fretting and fussing over a foreign politician to it. I will be happy to enjoy Trump from the safety of Australia. Trump is different, colourful and spirited; he is not a professional politician, and that alone has to be a good thing. I firmly believe that Australia badly needs someone just like him.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 5:55:38 PM
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foxy,

Not even close. How about this crook:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-greens-leader-richard-di-natale-fails-to-declare-home-pays-au-pairs-low-wage-20160519-goywxq.html
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 6:37:03 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

Give it a rest. We could continue the finger-pointing
ad nauseum but what would it prove? That there are
crooks on all sides of the divide. Most of us already
know that. That's why voters are looking towards
alternatives in their choices to the party systems.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 7:01:56 PM
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So you have ruled out the coalition, labor, and the greens, who do you have in mind?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 25 January 2017 7:30:21 PM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

The voters will decide at the next election.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 26 January 2017 10:43:20 AM
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