SR

Complete bulldust to you too.

I see that you have happily skipped over the fact that under labor, even with massive subsidies to the car industry to the point where the government was paying the salary of every person, the local manufacturers had lost most of their market share to imports. This led to the retrenchment of 75% of workers in the industry and the announcement of the closure of 50% of the manufacturing companies. The high AU$ played a large part, but predominantly it was the tiny size of the AU market. The car industry was essentially dead by the end of 2013. And the only way to save the industry was to reimpose massive tariffs.

You also conveniently forget that the US market is 15x the size, and that the car industry was "saved" when all the manufacturers went into chapter 11, imposed a new work agreements that cut wages and stripped workers of most of their entitlements to make them competitive again. The German car industry also benefits from economies of scale where they produce nearly 5x the number of cars per worker, and from the tariff protection against importing cars into the EU.

The opposition against the FTA was essentially a labor xenophobic scare campaign. The agreement which is similar the US FTA requires equal pay on the 457 visas which in effect made chinese labor more expensive than local labor. The proof of the pudding, after 2 years of the FTA, is the complete lack of swarms of chinese workers.

It is entirely market capitalism over the last 70 years that has lifted most of humanity out of poverty, created a massive middle class in India, China and other countries, and given the wealth to enable social welfare programs. However, it is not unfettered, and with laws in place to prevent anti competitive behaviour, and the worst excesses, we owe our lifestyle and welfare to capitalism.

And as your morals go, lying seems to not be a problem. I have never espoused trickle down economics, and you can search as far as you wish.

Pylons don't fall over because of renewable power. it's called climate change, and each and every state will feel the changing times.

At what degree of climate change heat do those pylons melt Doog?

Dear Shadowminister,

Now that is twice you have accused me of lying in this exchange. I accept it has become a normative behaviour from your side, especially when you are called out on a claim, but it remains uncouth, bullying, and something you should be called on to substantiate.

So please show me one instance where I have lied in either of my two replies to you.

When I directly asked you to show why you deemed doog was not only xenophobic but also a racist from your linked exchange you gave nothing, instead shifting the debate to Labour. Could you please answer the question about doog.

Your elietist smearing of others with xenophobia is exactly why people like Trump are in the ascendancy

As to you lack of support for trickle-down economics can I draw you to one of your responses in a thread;

“Tax cuts for business is not just for the "trickle down", the problem is that company tax is regarded by investors as a cost of doing business, and with an increasingly global economy Australia with one of the highest company tax rates in the OECD, high personnel costs, and start up unfriendly financing rules is looking extremely uncompetitive.”

Here you are acknowledging the trickle down component of your party's tax cuts yet are you really going to make the case that you don't support that component of them?

Actually it would be instructive to know exactly what you mean by trickle down economics. Please explain.

SR,

Your comment:

"How dare you.

For one thing it is the ideology of your party that has stripped the state of a vehicle manufacturing industry"

Is a bald faced lie. First the tariff protection reductions were started by Hawke and Keating, including those introduced to protect the car industry, and as I showed previously the six years of labor did far more damage than the Abbot government.

Secondly I said that doog was being xenophobic not that he was a xenophobe. This xenophobia is being driven by Labor (note Shorten's tirade against the Japanese potentially getting the subs contract went as far as rank racism.) especially since the FTA with the US has similar conditions which labor ignored.

Thirdly as the only time you can find me mentioning trickle down denying that it was the main justification for tax cuts which is definitely not espousing it. Just admit that you cocked it up. The trickle-down effect is real and measurable, however, as in a closed system the benefits flow mostly to the wealthy, which is why I have never espoused it. However, in an open system a reduction in corporate taxes does more than just encourage internal investment, it encourages investment from international sources and creates highly paid skilled jobs. Notably the wages of the bottom 25% of Australians increased by more under John Howard than any other time in Australian History.

Definition: - http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp

Finally, if you are such a delicate flower to feel "bullied" by people pointing out your falsehoods, then either don't post them or refrain from using such robust language such as "how dare you".

Aidan,

The costs of renewables are not just from the subsidies, but also from the new networks to service the renewables, the cost of peak power back up from Victoria, and from the resultant closure of the cheap coal power and combined cycle gas power that struggle to run with wildly varying renewable supply.

Dear Shadowminister,

How on earth is that a bald faced lie?

Here is a SMH report of the timeline.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/taunts-in-parliament-and-text-brought-about-general-motors-holdens-exit-from-australia-20131211-2z6i6.html

Remember? Hockey and Truss gleefully daring Holden to go.

Unless you have proof the company was going to exit with or without being supported through the high dollar regime at the time then yes it was the ideology of your party that ultimately saw off the industry in SA. Do you have any figures to show that with the dollar at .75 subsidies would need to continue? Probably not. All you have is a habit of calling people liars even when the facts are shoved in your face.

You wrote;

“Secondly I said that doog was being xenophobic not that he was a xenophobe.”

Rubbish.

Earlier in this thread you clearly said;

“The only time I called someone a xenophobe was not just because he challenged the free trade deal, but his basis for challenging the deal was because it was with the chinese. Perhaps the correct term should have been racist.”

Revisionistic spin on top of branding someone who calls you out a liar?

Manufacturing sustains 5 Australian jobs for each unit of relative production compared to 2 for mining and one for farming.

Your elitist lot with your insane hatred of unions have been determined to rip support away from our manufacturing industries, to sign up for lopsided trade deals that directly impact workers wages just so your coalition buddies can sell some more wheat or your big donors more coal.

That is why I get to say “How dare you”.