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The Forum > General Discussion > land grab

land grab

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Hi Nick,

I always approach one of your efforts like Brer Rabbit about to be thrown, tarred and feathered, into a thorn bush of incomprehensible non sequiturs.

It interesting that, among the items you list, probably very comprehensively, there are few references to any weapons, big guns, a thousand sabres and muskets - you know, machinery for outright war. Did you leave them out ?

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 16 January 2017 12:27:26 PM
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Scotland never had a sane government except Robert the Bruce who used a waddy on the king and became king but his relatives were English convicts. Philip probably heard requests for his convicts to be armed and defend the New South Wales republic but Eureka Stockade did that.
Sirius was armed with six carronades, short cannons used to fire large objects to smash ships. She also had four six-pounder guns. There were another ten six-pounder guns in the cargo hold to be used to protect the new settlement. Four companies of marines, comprising 213 men had muskets and gents had swords. George got all his guns back for some king-hits against Yanks on royal territory 1812.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 16 January 2017 1:18:26 PM
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Hi Nick,

Thank you for a direct answer, but I may have missed your point of a link between poultry in early Australia and Robert the Bruce. I suggest that his relatives may have been Scottish, rather than English, convicts, and perhaps a good deal after his time.

Actually yes, many convicts were armed: for a time, they formed much of the Sydney police force. Philip and the Eureka Stockade were active at different times and places, by the way.

So no artillery on the First Fleet which could be transported from place to place, on land ? So perhaps no thought, no intention, to use large guns on innocent and harmless locals ? Just enough muskets for the soldiers on board the Fleet to keep the convicts in line, and no spares ?

Now that you mention guns, in the Letters of Rev. Threlkeld up on Lake Macquarie in 1825, he reports encountering Aboriginal men on the track who ask him for powder for their guns. He has none spare but gives them other supplies. Maybe like in SA, in NSW it has always been legal for Aboriginal people to have and use guns ?

But thank you for that brief historical kaleidoscope.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 16 January 2017 4:07:57 PM
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"Scots Dumpy poultry breed is possibly one of the most ancient in the United Kingdom - with reports going back before Roman times - the Picts are meant to have carried them to battle camps where they were used to warn of approaching strangers. Tradition has it that they were brought to Scotland by the Phoenician traders [333 B.C.] .. galley slaves were usually prisoners of war. . In enormous sail-and-oar vessels, the Phoenicians, "

Bruce paid for chooks brought by convicts and no doubt used them to warn that English soldiers were crossing Bannockburn .
.." dinners and suppers consumed seventy deer, five oxen, and seventy-four sheep, plus 'melons, grapes, fish, poultry, and so forth'. ... in 1633, when Charles travelled north for his Scottish coronation." Poultry includes fowls and chickens. Bruce's family were convicts of the English.

" 1306, Robert the Bruce sent his wife Elizabeth, his daughter Marjorie , his sisters Mary and Christina to Kildrummy Castle, under the protection of his brother Niall. The English hanged, drew and quartered Niall Bruce, along with all the men from the castle. King Edward imprisoned Bruce's sister Mary.. in wooden cages on the walls of Roxburgh , Elizabeth was imprisoned for eight years by the English,".

"In 1803, the death of Constable Joseph Luker of the Sydney Foot Police., the Constable was attacked and killed. His body was found the following morning with the guard of his cutlass embedded in his skull." "The Marines remained as the first garrison of Sydney Town between 1788 and 1792 when they were at last relieved by this specially formed army unit – the NSW Corps."

Maybe the convict cops used cutlass swords and not muskets. The Marines no doubt took their guns , bat and ball and went home, so no need to pay Charles for the expense of muskets.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 16 January 2017 7:01:52 PM
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" In 1789 a gunpowder magazine, or store, was constructed on Dawes Point, at the northern end of George Street. ; this led to the construction of a series of fortifications, including Dawes Point Battery, around Sydney harbour.
Dawes Point Battery, completed in 1791, was initially armed with guns taken from HMS Sirius, the flagship of the First Fleet. It was armed with six carronades and four 6-pounders, with ten more 6-pounders in its hold for use in the new settlement.
On Sunday 2 November 1788 Governor Phillip and others, including marines, established a military redoubt . The detachment was to include a captain, two officers and 25 noncommissioned officers and 40 or 50 convicts The marines were to protect the new settlement from attacks by the Aborigines. A redoubt is a small fortification, ." it has no kaleidoscope.
Posted by nicknamenick, Monday, 16 January 2017 7:02:29 PM
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Thanks Nick,

Jut to add the obvious: a redoubt, and even more so a fort, are stationary structures; their roles are to protect those inside them, not to go forth and aggress against innocent locals.

And is it possible that the big guns at Dawes Point, taken from the Sirius, were pointed more or less out to sea ? At the menacing French, and perhaps the Spanish ships which would have been expected at any time ? Just as sixty or seventy years later, when big guns were installed even down here in Adelaide, pointing out to sea against the imminent arrival of the Russian Fleet ?

Just clarifying :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 7:39:52 AM
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