Th ABC is in anti shooter mode again,
I really think that as Malabar's ANZAC Range is an historic site that there should only be a 'peppercorn' rental.

The Labor party hacks are posturing again and don't speak for the locals at all.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-29/nsw-rifle-association-getting-cheap-rent-on-prime-coast-property/8151604

//I really think that as Malabar's ANZAC Range is an historic site that there should only be a 'peppercorn' rental.//

Why? Historic sites cost a lot of money to maintain. Why shouldn't NSWRA pay a fair price for their use of the land? I've always been told 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'. Why should that not apply to sporting shooters?

Why should I, as a New South Welshman and a taxpayer, be providing middle-class welfare to people who don't need it by subsidising their choice of recreational activity? Are they going to subsidise my choice of recreational activity in return? Because I'd quite like a spray skirt for my kayak. Any New South Welsh rifle shooters want to cough up?

I won't hold my breath. Apparently rifle shooters are even tighter than Scotsmen and Jews. You learn something new every day.

Toni,

We might consider the fact that firearm owners are required by law to attend a range.
As the law is a Government idea then should not the Government provide the ranges?
A simple solution would be to change the law and not require attendance at a Government approved range as a qualification to retain a Firearms Licence.

Come off it Toni Lavis, time to wake up a bit.

How many god dam football stadiums, velodromes, athletics facilities & a million other "sporting" facilities have government built? What possible help in defending this nation against an aggressor would any of them, or canoeists be?

If the average young Ozzie had not been proficient with a gun in 1941 Kokoda would have been a Japanese walk over, & you might now be saying yes sir in Japanese.

The government want to think themselves lucky, [& probably do], that they can palm off the expense of maintaining the range to the privateers. In Jarvis Bay, where the navy train their young officers, they found it too expensive, & let the range deteriorate.

They now have to bus their trainees to Canberra a few times each course, just to let them hear something go "BANG". Frightens the daylights out of some of our potential defence force leaders it does. God help us, if they ever had to use the things seriously.

Hasbeen, the ADF that 'Once were Warriors' are now reduced to doing Take 5's before they go into combat. God help the poor footslogger who has omitted to write down "magazine change", or "perceived pressure" on their Job Hazard Assessment ! The corporate mentality has taken over from Cpl Common Sense who died sometime in the late 1980's, along with his old friend Esprit de Corps. This has infected the upper eschelons and seen the likes of Mr Morrison become 'Australian of The Year'. I can only surmise the abject horror felt by many under his command with the "touchy - feely ADF" he subjected his troops to.

When exercises & range shoots were conducted in the mid 1980's the Regular Army soldier was lucky to see 200 rounds of ammunition fired annually from their SLR...it isn't much better today with the allocation of rounds for the F88. The only saving grace is that some units are able to access the simulator ranges, an obvious saving on ammunition and associated costs to units.

Toni Lavis, we need more folk like yourself to push for the total abolition of firearms in the populace, it will serve us well sometime into the future when the PLA/Kopassus come storming over the horizon. More training for young folk on video games is badly needed, which no doubt feel "just like the real thing" when simulating firearms operation and recoil. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Playstation, X Box and their like will be the saviour we need on the day.

Principles of Marksmanship anyone ?

The article, as journalism, leaves a lot to be desired, but that's modern "journalism": would hardly get a pass mark as a first year, first semester essay.

Someone please refresh my memory, but here we have the other side of the coin arguing about "pushing someone else's barrow"...didn't we recently have the SSM-LGTBTI-Land Rights for Left Handed Lesbian Harp Seals brigade forcing us to 'Vote' on a plebiscite ?

Funny how those who feel that others should participate in their chosen 'sport' get antsy about the same principles being applied.

Given the recent spate of stabbings, isn't it about time we registered all knives and brought in licensing for owners, also making it mandatory for those owning a knife to attend cooking/knife handling classes at approved venues, with Commissioners approved, lockable safes installed at homes possessing a knife/knives?

Oh, we already tried something similar, it's called "Vehicle Registration", but despite all the dollars spent on education, safety awareness programmes etc we still see an ungodly amount of lives lost and damaged as a result of idiots behind steering wheels...hypocrites... no one seen marching in the streets, lobbying politicians for the banning of Toyota Corolla's or campaigning against this tragic loss of life is there ?

Toni,

Any comments on "Pollutionfest" in Sydney last night?

Was it user pays or was the show for free?

More powder was burnt in the first minute than will be used on ANZAC Rifle Range in the next ten years.

Where do the Greens stand on this annual act of wanton pollution and scareing of animals and birds?
The 'possums and other denizens of the Botanical Gardens must have been terrified.

Hi Is Mise,

I said to you sometime ago, that the second best option for the ANZAC Range was as it had been, thus keeping it out of the hands of developers. The local community, was/is very much in favor of the range being turned over to passive recreational use, part of a national park. This had been promised by successive governments and oppositions for many years. A secret eleventh hour deal with senator David Leyonhjelm seen the range handed over to the NSWRA.

Your argument about who should pay, is a nonsense, the shooters should pay for having exclusive use granted to less than 2% of the population.

The next fight will be over Long Bay Jail

Paul,

Good to see that your first post of the New Year is the usual un-researched bull.
ANZAC Range is as it is because the Commonwealth lost two court cases not because of any secret deals.
The land was given 'in perpetuity' but the Government successfully argued that perpetuity:

"perpetuity

noun
1.
the state or quality of lasting forever.
"he did not believe in the perpetuity of military rule"
2.
a bond or other security with no fixed maturity date."
did not mean forever and so the court cases began.

Developers would love the land but as it is so highly contaminated that it would take years for people in Hazmat suits to clear it and many, many millions of dollars, the only way to make it pay would be skyscraper apartment blocks crowded as closely together as would be legally (or illegally) possible.

As it is now the locals are only too happy to see the range stay there as it stops development and allows them free access to the headland.

How typical of a lefty. Paul tells us "The local community, was/is very much in favor of the range being turned over to passive recreational use, part of a national park", but gives nothing to support this garbage.

I expect a few NIMBY types would rather see a garbage filled park, than apartments, or shudder public housing full of human ferals.

Yes I expect some green/left ratbag group would want to stop intelligent usage of this bit of land. Make it a national park, full of vermin, & used by 6 people a month, is their idea of success. Thank god neither happened.

We already have far too many national parks to be able to maintain & service them adequately. We are locking them up to be a vermin filled fire hazard all over the country. The obvious end result of green/left stupidity.

Nice to see a rare win for common sense.

//Any comments on "Pollutionfest" in Sydney last night?//

Waste of time & money. Frankly, I don't know why anyone bothers.

I see nobody has had a crack at trying to explain why I should be providing the well-heeled residents of the North Shore with upper-middle class welfare. But I guess since the wealthy have bigger houses and bigger cars and bigger bank balances than normal folk they also have a bigger sense of entitlement to match.

Which apparently we should all just pander to, because one day the Old Boys of the Sydney GPS's who like to pop off a few rounds every now and then with their old chums from their school's rifle club will save us all from the invading army of Imaginationland. Apparently the Imaginationlandic army only has a small force of infantry, which the tiny percentage of the population who are sporting shooters will have no trouble seeing off. This is a good thing, because we'd be stuffed if Imaginationland brought their airforce with them and all we had was a handful of blokes with rifles. Although exactly where the ADF is in all of this is a bit of a mystery...

About time we started charging those miserable kayakers for polluting our waterways with their presence.

Toni,

According to Paul the number of active shooters is about 400,000 which would make up a nice core of riflemen.

Where do you get the idea that most of the shooters at ANZAC are from the North Shore or that they are middle class?
The majority of the shooters that I know are working class.

Those living on the North Shore would find it more convenient to go to Hornsby, where the range is operational daily from 9am to 5pm, and from 6pm to 10.00 pm Monday to Friday,
http://www.hornsbyrange.com.au/

For more ranges see,
http://www.ssaansw.org.au/index.php/about-ssaa-nsw/ranges

Is Mise,

I said less than 2%, that could be just 2, you and 'Rambo' Stallone. Although at election time The Shooters and Hooters Party claims to have millions of supporters.

A question; What do you do at the range between 5pm and 6pm? Clear away the dead corpses.

And to think, I was being very conciliatory with you and Hassy on this. What do you do, try and shoot me down! i never did like Daniel Boone!

Paul,

Had you meant me and one other you'd have said less than 0.001%, I respect your accuracy!

What'd Dan'l ever do to you?

Just did a rough calculation and about 6,858,825 rounds of ammo would need to be fired to equal the amount of powder burnt at Sydney's New Years pollution event and about 8 million to equal Melbourne's.

I eagerly await the Greens next complaint about pollution from shooting and the disturbance of animals because of the noise!!

Paul,

Given the massive wastage by the labor party and Clover Moore building bike lanes that are largely unused, spending $ms on questionable art pieces and VIP parties, extending the lease to a 150yr old sporting club, that hurts nobody, should be good thing.

I speak from experience, having played squash for decades, and seeing private courts all over Sydney sold to developers and closed down, the latest being in Lane Cove.

It is no wonder that while Aus used to lead the world in Squash a few decades ago, it barely features today.

Yes Is Mise, I find those fireworks typical Green/Labor. Like the mobs of Rome, supply bread & circus, to keep the mobs of Sydney/Melbourne anesthetised. Wouldn't want them seeing all the tax payer funded stuff ups now would we, when we can hide behind tax payer funded coloured smoke.

With all those colours being of tons of chemicals far more carcinogenic than anything in cigarette smoke, those actually paying for that pollution should be jailed not praised.

Meanwhile the same green blob is pushing for more restrictions on the poor cigarette smoker, putting his few grams of smoke in the air. That is so dangerous that he must be removed from decent society. Incidentally, I don't smoke, but still can't hate those who do.

I sometimes wonder if the increase in cancer is due to our increased life span, or the increase in damn fool fireworks, that seem to be required at every event. My bet is on the latter.

A couple of comments.
To Albie, re "despite all the dollars spent on education, safety awareness programmes etc we still see ungodly amount of lives lost and damaged as a result of idiots behind steering". In fact a range of measures have had a huge impact: education, safety awareness, better roads, better cars, seat-belts, better medical treatment, and being tough on drink driving. In Australia in 1975 the deathrate was 27/100,00 population, by 2014 it had dropped to 5/100,000. The USA it is running at 10/100,000. Yes, it's still too high, but education, regulation and better technology have radically lowered the death rate, regardless of the idiots out there.

Hasbeen: "About time we started charging those miserable kayakers for polluting our waterways with their presence." The difference is that kayakers don't stop other people using the rivers; shooting ranges do (of course you may have been intending sarcasm).

Hasbeen: "I find those fireworks typical Green/Labor."

Weird. If the rifle-range is an historic site and shooting has a long tradition in Australia, then fireworks are equally significant as a traditional form of celebration, and are certainly heritage. They have nothing to do with political sides (is there anything at all in the world that some people can't label left or right?)

I can still remember the first fireworks I saw on Sydney Harbour, in 1951, to celebrate 50 years since Federation and I've loved them ever since though these days I watch on TV (and also the replay!). The earliest newspaper reference I can find at short notice is 1804, when 'a brilliant display of fire-works' was part of the celebrations in Sydney (probably at Government House) for His Majesty's Birthday (George III). That led to a long tradition of bonfires and fireworks on the King or Queens birthday. (Strangely, Wikipedia gives 1996 as the first Sydney NYE fireworks; that may be the first with fireworks on the bridge or on NYE).

So instead of fireworks being some lefty plot, they have always been associated with the monarchy and government. Personally I think they appeal to everyone, of every age, and of every or no political affiliation.

Except to grumpy old men who want to spoil everyone's fun, and spread division by labelling something that brings us all together in joy and happiness as one or other political side (the side they don't like). I'm even prepared to lobby to reimburse you for your share of the cost if you will just shut up about this and leave us to our enjoyment

Cossomby, it's a lost cause calling on the gun freaks to just shut up.

They are on a mission to indulge their dangerous hobby and reverse every impediment to their death cult until all the reforms brought in by John Howard for our safety are stripped away. Not only do they demand that we pick up the tab for it, but they have the effrontery to libel the miraculous men who re-took the Kokoda Trail (Track), leaving many of their corpses on ground defiled by Jap vermin, as being like the gun freaks.

No, they were conscripted men whose basic training for jungle warfare including weapons training was carried out by the Australian armed forces. Some had gained familiarity with weapons where I gained mine -in school cadet corps. A very few may have been gun hobbyists. But many of the men who inspired the conscripts ("chocos") on the battlefield were AIF with battle experience in Africa and whom Mr Curtin brought home at great risk of their ships being spotted and sunk by the enemy leaving us virtually without an army.

What garbage Julian. Those kids were a quickly raised militia, with no time for any decent training. They were desperately chucked in as we had nothing left.

They were mostly country kids, who had learnt to use a gun, supplementing the family larder with rabbits & ducks, in those very lean times in the 30s. We were still doing it into the late 40s.

I very much doubt many of them were sporting shooters, ammunition was far too expensive for most of them to waste on shooting at targets you couldn't eat. The school cadet cores were a post war activity in most areas.

I have no interest in sporting shooting. I have not been on a range since I left the navy 50 years ago, but I don't hate those who have such an interest.

My guns are to protect my young stock from the wild dogs that roam our shire. The authorities will do nothing to control them, so it is up to us. It is a chore I would happily leave to someone else, if I could.

Cossomby,

Are not the fireworks massive pollution?

Sydney expended 12 tonnes of pyrotechnics and Melbourne 13.5 and yet the great anti-pollution advocates say nought.

The Greens are on record as being opposed to wood heating in homes and to the burning of wood, a renewable energy source, for other purposes.

The Greens have voiced concern that gunfire on ranges disturbs animals yet are strangely silent about the huge amount of noise pollution associated with the fireworks.

The RSPCA is also strangely silent, don't they care about this yearly extravaganza in audio cruelty to dogs and cats?

Is Misw, You're just using this argument to have a go at the greens. Of course it's pollution, but it's one night in the year and a drop in the bucket compared to all the other sources of pollution.

As for the 'silent' RSPCA, well I saw a lot of material on TV about the impact on dogs and cats with advice about what to do to protect your pets. Just now I googled 'RSPCA fireworks' and got 300,000 hits - the first ones up were warnings across Australia from the RSPCA. The RSPCA were not 'strangely silent', perhaps you only hear what your want to?

Gun hobbyists had no part in training the non-AIF conscript soldiers in the use of weapons such as Bren guns, Sten guns, mortars and other modern weapons for killing Japs. The few people who were in school cadet corps (which long preceded the end of the war) were trained mainly with Lee Enfield .303 rifles and had some army training at Watsonia and Puckapunyal - but sure as hell not enough to take on the Japs in the New Guinea. The non-AIF soldiers were let down by grossly inadequate pre-battle training as some posters have noted.

Cossomby,

The RSPCA doesn't go to the heart of the matter, were they concerned for the welfare of the animals they would condemn the use of fireworks for entertainment, but tat would be rocking the boat.

Emperor,

The Australian Army were so out of touch with reality that they did their level best to stop the development and production of the Owen Gun, to the detriment of the war effort and the efficiency and safety of their own soldiers.

Even up into the 1960s the Army was teaching completely wrong use of aperture sights and the basic method of using the Owen Gun was a stupid drill movement that, had it been followed, would surely have led to the death of the user if in combat.

Julian, as the senior CUO of a 3 platoon school cadet corps in the later 50s, I have a little knowledge of school cadets, & the training. Yes we had WW11 303s, but we also shot the bren gun on the range twice a year.

I'm sure those kids up on Kokoda would have loved to have a lot of Bren guns, unfortunately they never had enough ammunition to waste spraying the jungle with a bren for more than a couple of sections.

My son has until recently been giving weapons training to new navy officer cadets. The hardest bit was getting many of them, & not only the ladies, to keep their eyes open, when the things went BANG. It would be most advantageous if all prospective recruits were required to get themselves some range time, before joining.

EJ, you say, "...let down by inadequate training..."
Also let down by lack of: Effective leadership (Blamey & Co). Supplies - particularly ammunition leading to suicidal charges with fixed bayonets and bare hands. Food adequate to sustain them. Clean water & medical treatment.

"Physically, the pathetically young warriors of the 39th were in poor shape. Worn out by strenuous fighting and exhausting movement, and weakened by lack of food and sleep and shelter, many of them had literally come to a standstill. Practically every day torrential rains fell all through the afternoon and night, cascading into their cheerless weapon pits and soaking the clothes they wore, the only ones they had. In these they shivered through the long chill vigil of the lonely nights when they were required to stand awake and alert, but still silent."
https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/resources/3a7f218a-d2d6-49fd-b6f6-240a55058ed2/files/awm-kokoda-report.pdf

It continues today, inadequate supplies (boots now made in China, along with many other essential items of kit rendered useless after a day in the field). Maybe Cossomby, Paul and Toni are on the right path...our ADF doesn't need to be trained, nor does anyone else need to be proficient in firearms use either...perhaps we don't even need a defence force at all ?

We'll just let the sale of Australia to the foreign interests continue, hammer our swords into ploughshares & bend over to cop the inevitable Chinese or Indonesian flavoured pineapple.

Yes, in the 1920's and '30's young boys at Sydney Boys School, Kings College and others had small ranges on site. Other schools with Cadet units used ANZAC Rifle Range at Malabar or any range nearby in the case of boarding schools in country areas.
As I posted earlier in the thread, we don't need rifle ranges anymore, as the 'realistic and safe' video gaming industry has provided all we need in that regard.

God help us.

I might add that the Australian Army had many thousands of Smith and Wesson revolvers that were safe to carry fully loaded with six rounds but the safety feature that made this possible was removed so that they were brought into line with less safe issue revolvers and thenceforward only loaded with five rounds.

Also the very effective .455 Webley revolvers were replaced by .38 calibre
pistols to bring us into line with Britain.
Never mind that the new .38s were woefully inadequate for military use.

One did much better in the Army if one was a footballer and not a rifle enthusiast, any interest in marksmanship rather put one beyond the pale as well as wasting ammunition.

Is Mise: "The RSPCA doesn't go to the heart of the matter, were they concerned for the welfare of the animals they would condemn the use of fireworks for entertainment, but tat would be rocking the boat."

1. The RSPCA shouldn't need to advise people that their pets may be disturbed. Everyone who has a dog or cat already knows this, and should keep them inside or in secure surroundings insulated from the noise and sound. My dog, now in pet heaven, freaked at thunderstorms and the sound of hot air balloons (I live near a small rural airstrip). Whenever either came near, I made sure she was in a cubby hole in the quietest part of the house. But, because they do care for the welfare of animals, the RSPCA does regularly warn pet-owners even though such repetition should be unnecessary (they would be entitle to groan: 'doesn't anyone ever learn!').

2. Why should the RSPCA condemn just fireworks which occur on one day of the year? Should they condemn thunder, hot air balloons, noisy outdoor concerts (note the latter two are also just for entertainment) or the numerous other things that occur much more often, over a much wider area or in many more places?

3. The RSPCA sensibly focus their attention on serious animal cruelty. Noisy fireworks, concerts, thunder don't fall into this category because they are not deliberately intended to disturb animals, and the owners can easily protect their pets. One could argue that pet-owners who don't protect their pets from the noise are the ones who should be blamed, not the fireworks or the RSPCA.

You are entitled to not like fireworks. But it is a bit much to try and justify your dislike by dumping on the RSPCA for not trying to close firework displays down. (PS declaration: I have no association whatever with the RSPCA, I just think this is an illogical line of argument).

Cossomby,

If the RSPCA is really concerned about serious acts of cruelty then why don't they condemn the use of 1080 poison?
A poison that kills slowly, often over a day and with considerable agony.

This poison kills more than the targeted pest animals, but no one seems to care.

For those interested in the history and heritage associated with the Malabar Headland and the ANZAC Rifle Range see

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabar_Headland

Is Mise, you excel at changing the goal posts. I'm not going to buy into the 1080 argument, though I know a bit about it and other pest management. Let's just add the RSPCA and fireworks to the list of things you don't like. Maybe one day you'll make a positive post about something you do like?

I can think of a very good use for a sky rocket or two, but it involves some possible cruelty to a couple of dumb animals as we launch them back to the crazy shoot em' up planet from whence they came, but again no brain no pain, and it would not involve the RSPCA.

Agree Issy and Hassy!

p/s Issy, are you and Hassy conjoined twins sharing the same thing up top, whatever that thing may be, whatever you share?

I like the boys

I don't like the RSPCA as they stick their bib in where it's not wanted and in their anti-hunting mode have criticized and lied about hunters and accused them of cruelty but have never condemned the cruelty of the use of 1080, nor have I heard anything on the subject from those other great conservationists, the Greens.

Wicked RSPCA. Sticking their bibs in where the gun freaks don't want them.

Not only that, Emperor, but lying into the bargain,

"Mr Chown also took aim at the RSPCA over photos being used in newspaper adverts opposing moves to allow hunting in public places in WA. A photo of a dead American hare had been photoshopped to create a more emotional impact.

“I don’t want to see the RSPCA using falsehoods and lies,” he said.

The motion by the state’s only Shooters and Fishers MP, Rick Mazza, was supported by Agriculture Minister Ken Baston, who said he was unconvinced there was enough scrutiny of the RSPCA."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/former-rpsca-boss-eric-ball-steps-down-from-animal-welfare-panel/news-story/ba5399a0dc21bc04a9d45a13d02efbca

Call the Senators and chew that over, Imperatur.

So Barnaby Joyce's crew don't like the RSPCA's ad which didn't claim the American hare was killed in Australia, and wants officials appointed by the Country Party to control the RSPCA. Surprise surprise.

News flash: Fort Lauderdale officials have just ascribed America's latest Second Amendment gun massacre to the gunnie being a lunatic.
Wouldn't have anything to to his being able to have a gun would it?

So they didn't claim that the hare was killed in Australia, they certainly wanted to give the impression that it was; misleading and dishonest.

The Fort Lauderdale shooter was investigated by the powers that be only recently and was known to have mental health problems, why didn't you mention that fact, Emperor?

Did the fact that the terrorist who drove a truck into the Christmas crowd in Germany have anything to do with the fact that he gained access to a truck?
Why only pick the USA, how about the terrorist in Turkey, he had access to a gun also, why not mention him?

Or does it not fit the agenda?

"The Fort Lauderdale shooter was investigated by the powers that be only recently and was known to have mental health problems, why didn't you mention that fact, Emperor?"

I did. I said they'd passed it off as lunacy. American officialdom protects the Second Amendment by always passing off the routine gun massacres as lunacy (or PC words for it) but the totally undeniable fact is that every gun murderer does it with a gun that the Second Amendment enables him to get to. I have an idea that the Istanbul killer also did it because he could get possession of a gun. Likewise the Port Arthur massacre that finally prompted our government to do something about it - and the gun freaks are still trying to prise the measures apart. It's always so, gunshot deaths are ALWAYS caused by guns.

Gun shot deaths are always caused by guns, did you work that out yourself or is it the advice of the Senate?

Gun shot deaths are always effected by guns but the root cause does not lay with the inanimate object, no gun has ever, of itself, caused a death.

There were murders aplenty and massacres untold before the gun was invented, personal firearms gave the physically weak the means to protect themselves for the first time in history, pre-history and legend.

The US Second Amendment is dear to the hearts of Americans because it allows them to protect themselves, such self protection being rarely reported in the mainstream media in the US and almost never in the local media.

I wonder why?

Hi Is Mise, just as you don't like that commie front org the RSPCA sticking its nose into secret shooters business, did you object when the coppers came around sticking their noses into more secret business when a man killed himself at the 'Markesman Firing Range' in Adelaide. that was the third such death since 2008 at the 'Marksman' range.

Not at all, Paul; the police were doing their job, investigating a death that needed investigating.

The RSPCA would be doing their job if they investigated alleged acts of cruelty by hunters but as death by a well placed bullet is the most humane way to kill game animals or feral pests then the RSPCA has no business going on about hunting.
Hunters would never subject an animal to a lingering 1080 poison death, such cruelty should be prosecuted by the RSPCA and one wonders why the RSPCA and the Greens don't roundly condemn its use.

"Hunters would never subject an animal to a lingering 1080 poison death,"

Of course not Is Mise, hunters would not use dogs to tear and rip at animals, never ever. There are no bad shots where animals are left to suffer a long and painful death.

Like leading NSW hunter, millionaire Tony Azzi, was found to be killing protected wildlife, wombats. No these goody two shoes from the Shooters and Hooter are to busy supporting greyhound racing to concern themselves with animal cruelty.

Paul,

""Hunters would never subject an animal to a lingering 1080 poison death,"

Of course not Is Mise, hunters would not use dogs to tear and rip at animals, never ever. There are no bad shots where animals are left to suffer a long and painful death"

Of course there are misplaced shots but the hunter tracks the animal and puts it out of its misery, most shots are well placed and result in instant death, my own experiences with foxes is that a bullet from the .220 Swift that I usually use means a dead fox with no suffering whatsoever.

You can't say the same for the 1080 that is approved by the RSPCA and the Greens.

There is no such an animal as a leading hunter, and if Azzi shot wombats then he needs to be prosecuted, as for the S&F politicians voting to support greyhound racing, they were saving jobs and agreeing with the will of the majority of their constituents,(and the majority of people in NSW) i.e. doing their job.

Unless you are hiding behind every bush, you cannot say with any certainty that " the hunter tracks the animal and puts it out of its misery, most shots are well placed and result in instant death". You own experience is necessarily the norm.

Greyhound racing equals jobs, so does cock fighting and bear baiting, not to mention drug dealing.

Paul,

Hunters don't waste ammunition, it' expensive, nor do they spend good money on getting the best and most accurate rifles for the job.
Tne norm nowadays is for new hunting rifles to shoot sub minute of angle right out of the box.

"Greyhound racing equals jobs, so does cock fighting and bear baiting, not to mention drug dealing."
I thought that the Greens were in favour of certain illicit drugs being OK.
The S&F weren't around when cock fighting and bear baiting were legal, so what's the relevance?

Do the Greens condemn the prolonged cruelty associated with the use of 1080?

Now you are showing your utter lack of any knowledge, but a desire to shoot your mouth off Paul.

Have you ever seen a greyhound? Have you ever seen one chasing? With your fool statement that it is equivalent to cock fighting you make the totally stupid statement.

Greyhounds love to chase. They are at their happiest when chasing something. I guess you have never actually seen one in the bush.

That they can have their fun, giving our silly punters something to lose their money at, & do it in the safe closed environment of a race track is a win, win, win situation, only a ratbag green could fail to see.

Hassy said "That they can have their fun, giving our silly punters something to lose their money at, & do it in the safe closed environment of a race track is a win, win, win situation, only a ratbag green could fail to see.

You are the one in La La Land if you believe that rubbish, greyhounds are constantly being injured and killed on race tracks,

Just a random stewards report from one greyhound meeting at Sydney's Wentworth Park 21/12/2016

Race 2: BIG STINK (7) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued,
ALL ABOUT EVE (10) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued

Race 3: MR DIAZ (1) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued,
BLACK METEORITE (2) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued,

Race 8: BLABBA MOUTH (3) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued,

Race 10; WILD JIMMY (2) injured, 10-day incapacitation issued,

A typical night of fun! Fortunately no dog(s) broke a leg that night and had to be put down.

I lived for a few years at the corner of Bay Parade and Napier Street Malabar, across Long Bay from the rifle range. Residents appreciated the lack of "Development" at the site, and it certainly should become a protected reserve. But it certainly should NOT be given over to the gun freaks for a song to pursue their hobby. Tenders should be called to find a suitable organisation to maintain it.

Emotive language again, Emperor.
As the land has been a range for over a hundred years and in constant use as such, then why should it not continue in such use?

"Clubs using the range.
See Malabar Headland for a full list of the headland users.
Military Rifle Clubs Association
Metropolitan District Rifle Association
Bankstown Chatswood Rifle Club — A long range F-Class and target rifle club
Alpine Hunting & Target Shooting Club Pty Ltd
Endeavour Rifle Club
Holsworthy Rifle Club (inc Sydney VDC Rifle Club and Randwick Rifle Club)
Hurstville Rifle Club
Marrickville Rifle Club
Mosman - Neutral Bay Rifle Club
Port Jackson Rifle Club
Railway and Tramways Institute Rifle Club
Rockdale Rifle Club
Sydney County Council Rifle Club
Sydney High School Rifle Club
Sydney Rifle Club
The Scots College Rifle Club
Yorkshire Rifle Club
Sporting Shooters Association (NSW) Inc (2015)"

The range serves a wide area of Sydney, and, might I remind you Imperatur, these users are required by law to attend a range as a condition of their firearms licences.

A meaningless list Issy the combined membership might total 30 for all we know. I have never passed an establishment with any of those names flashing on a neon sign. Are they fronts for secret para military orgs? To pick on one or two 'The Scots College Rifle Club' a well heeled mob if I must say so, they can afford their own shoot em; range, don't need to be subsidized by the taxpayer! 'Yorkshire Rifle Club' What, subsidizing a bunch from you know where, do they hunt to hounds?

You need to see a doctor Paul, not only are you sick, you are in danger of disappearing in the same place that famous bird went.

You obviously have far too much admiration for the garbage that spews from your keyboard.

Remember narcissism is a dangerous disease, it killed millions of Russian communists.

If you knew anything, Paul, you'd know that rifle clubs must have a minimum membership and must be a legitimate organization under the Firearms Act to be recognized by the Commissioner of Police.
Ditto to be recognized by both State and Federal Governments, for the purpose of grants etc.

Do you think that conservationists should fund any sanctuaries or National Parks that they use?

Does the Government having decreed that shooters must attend a range at least four times a year then, to allow compliance with the law, the Govt should provide facilities to allow such compliance?

Hassy, narcissism you don't know the meaning of the word.
You claim greyhound racing is safe for the dogs, then I post a random Stewards Report from within the rubbish business itself, from a recent meeting, which indicates at least 6 greyhounds were injured at that meeting or had to be scratched due to pre race injury, or injury sustained recently at another meeting.
I have been at trial tracks and witnessed rabbits and possums being used to bait greyhounds.
Provide evidence that racing is safe for greyhounds.

No reason why conservationists should fund public parks as they're there for the public not hobbyists.

I'm a sporting shooter who uses the ANZAC Rifle Range so you can call me biased if you like but there are a few indisputable facts that you should consider.

1) the headland has been used as a musket/rifle/shooting range since around 1850.
2) if the headland was not a rifle range it would not exist as open space today, it would have been sold to developers a long time ago.
3) the ANZAC Rifle Range is the oldest rifle range in Australia, it has hosted the Kings, Queens and British Empire Medal international shooting competitions. The current Queens Competition held on the range can trace its history back to Queen Victoria.
4) Australia did not have a defense force at the start of WWI, we had a part time militia made up of members from the local rifle clubs. The members of these clubs fought and lost their lives during WWI and most of the wars since that time.
5) Most of the rifle clubs using the range today can trace their history back to before WWI.
6) The rifle range was renamed to the ANZAC Rifle Range to honour the Rifle Club Members who fought and lost their lives in these wars.
7) The rifle range was used by about 1000 people per week until the Government terminated the leases of the horse riding school, aero modelling clubs and other sporting shooter clubs in 2011.

IMO, the headland should be shared with other public users as it was before the Government terminated leases but you cannot blame the shooters for that. The Government promised to return the horse riders to the headland nearly 2 years ago.

If we value Australian history and our ANZAC heritage perhaps we should support the ANZAC Rifle Range ?.

If you believe the rifle range and sporting shooters should pay a commercial rent for the use of this public land then are you also saying that this should apply to all golf clubs, parks and sports activities held on public land ?.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabar_Headland

Fund it by a user's fee the way golf clubs are on public land. Not by a free transfer of control to a group of gun hobbyists. Call tenders for an official administrator, tenderers to specify truthfully how many shooters they represent and how much they undertake to remit to the public purse.

Paul C, you seem to be a reasonable and nice bloke, all Paul's are. As a progressive environmentalists and a local, I did say to Issy and Hassy, that the rifle range was in my opinion the second best choice for the land at Malabar. This was despite numerous governments and oppositions promising for years to eventually turn the land over to passive public use.
We know there was a secret late night deal stitched up between the government and senator David Leyonhjelm to favor the gunnies, again questionable. What EI posted is totally reasonable and fair, why dose Issy object? I also favor the 'Pony Club' being located on the headland.

Paul,

How could I object to the Emperor's proposal, this is the first post that I've made since he posted his proposal?

Actually he is talking sense but as the Firearms Act stands the rifle clubs are the only legal entity that can manage a range, except a private range on private property; such a range is subject to the same rules as ranges on State/Federal property.

A simple solution would be to abolish the need for compulsory attendance.

Hi Is Mise,

I think we all know that we are wasting our time here. The NSWRA have a 50 year lease to use the ANZAC Rifle Range. Target shooting is an Olympic and Commonwealth Games sport. It’s also one of the safest sports. The range users pay close to $350/year plus range attendance fees.

fyi, I made a submission to the Commonwealth Dept of Finance and the Randwick Council a few years back that proposed the transfer of this land to NSW Sports and Rec for use as a rifle range, equestrian center and general purpose sports facility. I did not receive a reply.