Oh, what a beautiful mornin',
Oh, what a beautiful day.
I got a beautiful feelin'
Ev'erything's goin' our way.

Brexit, done.
Trump, done.
Pauline, done, but with more to come.
Merkel, out next.

Then Turnbull & the global warming fraud to go.

Oh what a beautiful morning

It is very wrong of us to gloat but perhaps just this once!

Well guys there is certainly part of me that if feeling a little chuffed.

Many may have held their noses while doing it but the Yanks have delivered a victory for the citizen over the customer.

Here in Australia we have the ruling elites hell bent on creating our own manufacturing rust belts, signing us up for the TTP and free trade deals with China of all places, and handing out over a million 457 visas. All the while we have a leader who holds Caymen Island bank accounts and was a former merchant banker telling us how good the changes will be for the economy. Note not for the people but the 'economy'.

We can only hope that our major parties get the message without the populace having to take the country to the edge with a Trump clone.

My hope is the profits of the big corporations are not at the forefront of our decision making any longer. That globalisation and trickle down economics are given the boot.

The only tragedy is that it has fallen to an egomaniac like Trump to 'drain the swamp'. If he hadn't been screwed by the DNC we may well have had a Sanders doing it instead. Beggars can't be choosers.

hopefully the regressives will all move to Canada or Saudi Arabia. A number of the celebrities threatened to leave if Trump won but I suspect like Hilary they could not lie straight in bed.

Hi Steele,

I'm slowly getting over the impulse to slash my wrists, but that might come back around January 20.

Your comment about Drumpf draining the swamp: yes, Clinton was far more representative of that swamp, the lobbying, wheeling and dealing, scratching each others' backs, etc., but also the padding of public service positions in a bloated bureaucracy. Members of that vast class would have overwhelmingly voted for Clinton. They are probably commiserating over their kale smoothies and no-fat goat-cheese flat whites, all along the Beltway.

Hmmmm, I wonder which class they would correspond to in Australia, and who THEY would vote for, against the majority ?

Joe

Don't worry Joe.
The revolution is coming
faster than we think.

Its kind of not as it could be while Assange is locked up though. He's demonstrated that his lifes purpose is to tell the people the truth no matter who is in power. Time to free the man.

Dear Loudmouth,

I gave an example of “padding of public service positions in a bloated bureaucracy” done by Brandis in my reply to Hasbeen on the other thread. So the answer is probably both of the major parties here is Australia.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7526#231424

But look at this comment from Hasbeen; “On migration, Labor is much worse than the Libs, who got the boats to their peak, but the greens are totally ridiculous.”

Note the conflation of migrants with refugees. Now that the mining boom is over our governments are desperately trying to keep the real estate boom going as it is the major driver of our economy. Large migration intakes are required to sustain it. The sell is that these are skilled migration positions that we need to keep the economy strong but like it or not they do impact the job prospects of Australians and housing costs skyrocket.

I often ask those who are anti-refugee would they trade a 50% increase in refugee numbers for a halving of migration levels. Most initially say no but when I explain it would mean 100,000 less people competing for Australian jobs and putting strain on infrastructure while instead we as a country get to help 10,000 more of those who are in desperate need of our assistance their views will often change.

If that scenario was offer to you would you support it?

To me the main takeaway message from Brexit and Trump is that the ordinary person is sick of their worth being measured by their capacity as a customer rather than a citizen and they are ready to go to extremes to achieve it.

Maybe now it is time for those on the left and right side of politics to realize we have more in common, than those who control the economy would like us to think.

The jobs are not coming back in any meaningful way in Australia or any where else for that matter. The level of debt that has been building since the inception of the fractional reserve system cant continue, when bond rates start to rise.

So we have to start listening to other points of view, and find a place that works well enough for all, or spend large amounts of our time and resources fighting of our neighbors.

Perhaps this forum could be an example of how better to communicate than the troll infested blogasphere that we usually see on the internet.

Chris

As I recall about 3 years ago there were a lot of people gloating over Tony Abbott's victory and how he was going to "fix things" too.

He could "talk the talk" too but a couple of years later he was made to walk and his replacement has proven just as ineffective.

Hey Steely, what is not ridiculous about the Greens open border policy.

As for increasing the refugee intake, that would be fine, but only on 2 conditions.

1/ That they are housed in inner city greenie suburbs, & on university campuses. Let the promoters live with the problem.

It is not the ratbag do gooders fringe who pays for this crazy policy, but the poor bloke in the outer burbs, who suffer the muggings & home invasions.

2/ That any crime or misdemeanour by one of them results in the entire family's immediate deportation to place of origin.

This cutting of immigration is not an either or proposition, but a full cutting of all, especially the ridiculous family reunion policy. We frittered away a huge percentage of the mining boom wealth, employing imports from Europe for far too many of the highly paid jobs, & therefore did not train the people we will need in the next boom.

Time also for a ban on kiwi free entry. They are usually more trouble than they are worth, particularly that damned rugby team.

The military will have to be scaled back to afford the repair of industrial heartland. Tariffs will be a big part of what springs from this repair, as well as the halving of the business tax rate.

The resulting isolationism and de-globalization sets the scene for trade-wars and what has historically ensued.

short memory Rache, stopping the boats and getting rid of the breathing taxes could not have happened under any other leader as they had no intestinal fortitude. Take off your blinkers. Tony did more good in 2 years than the economic vandals did in seven. We will be paying for decades for the Green/Labour treachery under Rudd/Gillard.

Dear Hasbeen,

Just for this thread can you forgive me for not taking the bait. I promise to resume hostilities later. I fully agree we failed to train our next generation properly and the opening up of our education system to private operators has been a total disaster with out government and our school leavers being rorted hundreds of millions of dollars.

Dear Luciferase,

How about this for a scenario. Trump says to China these tariffs stay in place until they fully float the Yuan instead of artificially keeping it low, crack down on copyright infringements and stop government financed economic espionage. China has not been playing on a level playing field and I'm happy to see someone prepared to take it up to them.

Here in Australia we had Andrew Rob, the minister who secured a free trade deal with China, welcomed the leasing of Darwin Port to a Chinese corporation with ties to the Chinese government with the words “"wonderful outcome for the Northern Territory, and for Australia as a whole" and then resigned from parliament to take up a highly lucrative position within that very same company.

Yet every time we raise concerns about Chinese influence and asset sales to them we get accused of xenophobia.

"These free trade agreements are too important for our country, they're too important for our businesses and too important for our children to be sacrificed at the altar of short-term xenophobic politics" Tony Abbott

Whose stance do you prefer?

I'm chuffed because I tipped Trump from day one, much to my wife's disgust.

Hi Steele,

I'm happy with our migration program, more or less. I also support an increase in the annual intake of refugees, on the following basis:

Refugees who have filled out all the necessary forms and waited - 20,000.
Refugees who come illegally by boat - - - - - - - - Nil

As well, refugees in the greatest danger of persecution, Yazidis, Christians, Mandeans, South Sudanese, etc. should be given preference.

There are blocks of flats around where I live and I would be happy to welcome them here, and give them a hand. Somebody mentioned Greens' taking them in, but accommodation in their areas would be too expensive.

Cheers,

Joe

“Donald Trump heard a voice out in this country that no one else heard,” Paul Ryan.

Now, finally, they get it.

Hi Steele,

Trump doesn't have to actually impose the anti-Chinese tariffs to force them to the negotiating table. The threat is enough. Just start the process and get all the ducks lined up ready to implement the tariff. Then go to the Chinese and say "Now about that currency of your's and your copyright violations. Anything you can do about them?"

Remember Reagan didn't have to build Star Wars to force Gorbachev to deal. Just the threat was enough.

Steele, your proposal sounds nice but ---
How do you prove a real refugee ?
How do you tell apart someone who had a neighbour poke a gun into his
face and tell him "you sunnie/shite leave now or we will kill you all"
from someone who just makes it all up ?

You can't tell the difference and they know it.
It al fits in well with Koran's rules for immigration.
Leave them in the camps in Jordan or Turkey and they will find their
way home or to somewhere else in the middle east.

We just CANNOT solve THEIR problem.
Germany is now realising this as are other European countries.
They are realising that if they do not stop it they stand to lose Europe.
Think what it would be like if Europe became just a new version of the Middle East ?

We are already seeing just the start of a new immigration of refugees
from Europe, mainly to the US and Israel but how long before the
Germans who have just started to leave claim asylum in Australia ?

Sounds a bit much does it not ? The signals are there if you turn your receiver on.

Yes it is a good day.

Congratulations to President-elect Trump, and the US citizens and independent media that supported his candidacy.

There's so much fallout to take away from this electoral vote that I barely know where to start.

I guess the first things we should expect to see is Trumps Cabinet appointments.
I'm hoping he appoints Trey Gowdy as AG and gets the ball rolling with taking Clinton Inc apart.
There's no reason to give her corruption any quarter.

The only bargaining chip Hillary had was becoming President.
That's gone now, it's time to 'Drain the Swamp'.
The rats will be looking to jump ship and make immunity deals on all the dirty stuff they were complicit with Hillary with, unless Obama hands out pardons.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/white-house-open-to-a-clinton-pardon/

What does Trump do with Neocon Paul Ryan?
Some say it's better to make peace with him so the party will work with Trump, others say he should be removed entirely.

The seedy underbelly of US politics and crony capitalism has been exposed and with it the complicit establishment media which is just as much part of the problem.

Trump and Putin have made friends and the war is now called off.
The EU is crapping itself over a nationalist US President and their federalist game to rule over the lives of others is in jeopardy.
Other left leaning leaders graciously eating their humble pie and trying to stay clear of the media while conservative leaders are overjoyed.
Illegals rioting because they voted 10 times and still wont get a green card or amnesty.
Millenials needing safe-spaces and therapy because they can't cope.

The more I think about it it's not just a good day, it's a great day.
Thank you Donald Trump.

- I know a lot of women supported Hillary on women equality issues and others have pro-immigrant stances but the issues of this election were much greater than that.

The establishment corruption had reached a level too great to ignore and the future of the planet was at risk.
In time there will be a female US president.

Dear mhaze,

You wrote;

“Donald Trump heard a voice out in this country that no one else heard,” Paul Ryan.”

Oh someone else heard it alright but he got shafted by the money machine of his own party.

“I do not believe in unfettered free trade. I believe in fair trade which works for the middle class and working families, not just large multinational corporations. I was on the picket line in opposition to NAFTA. We heard people tell us how many jobs would be created. I didn't believe that for a second because I understood what the function of NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, and the TPP is, it's to say to American workers, hey, you are now competing against people in Vietnam who make 56 cents an hour minimum wage.”

“There are many corporations who have turned their backs on the American worker, who have said, if I can make another nickel in profit by going to China and shutting down in the United States of America, that's what I will do. I will do my best to transform our trade policy and take on these corporations who want to invest in low-income countries around the world rather than in the United States of America.”

“I voted against NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China. I think they have been a disaster for the American worker. A lot of corporations that shut down here move abroad. Working people understand that after NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China we have lost millions of decent paying jobs. Since 2001, 60,000 factories in America have been shut down. We're in a race to the bottom, where our wages are going down. Is all of that attributable to trade? No. Is a lot of it? Yes. TPP was written by corporate America and the pharmaceutical industry and Wall Street. That's what this trade agreement is about.

Bernie Sanders 2016

Hi Steely, it is great to see we want many of the same outcomes, I hope we can in time become closer in our ideas on how to achieve it.

I believe our best chance in the short term has to be a revitalised Abbott, but an Abbott with an injection of backbone. One of his main problems with areas where he was less committed than in stopping the boats, or getting rid of Julia's carbon tax, was his going to water when faced with noisy opposition, & back flipping.

With the experience of his traitorous party members of watching Trumps victory I think he could have become tough enough to do the job.

Yes he will be wrong on some issues, but he is closer to the real Ozzies of the working & middle class than any other I can see.

Still, we will be much better now, than with Hillary. She was too close to defence industries & their requirements for a production boost. She was dangerous way beyond Trump, as well as a crook.

Gloat away rightards. It wont take trump long to wipe the smiles off your foolish faces.

Dear Hasbeen,

Please don't get me wrong. I don't trust Trump as far as I could throw him. The fact he was able to tap into a very real discontent that was ready to be taken up by any candidate who had the gumption does not raise him one iota in my estimation.

He didn't get much more of the vote than Romney did last election it is just that Hillary was so tainted by being so obviously part of the political establishment that her vote plummeted in comparison to Obama's.

The man is a pig.

Remember Obama had also come in promising change to the system. That he failed should most certainly be a black mark against his name but he did take a broken economy shedding 800,000 jobs a month and bring it back into some form of health.

On Abbott we are going to have to disagree. I see him as an abject failure who unfortunately escaped having the Australian people have the pleasure of booting him out rather than his own party.

As to the boats how do you know they have stopped? We are not told. In fact those who want to say anything outside official channels face years in prison. That's the Abbott version of freedom.

As to the bigger crook I would say Trump defrauding the American people millions upon millions of dollars in taxes and claiming he was 'smart'. That was money for among other things schools and hospitals.

Look, I acknowledge you had misgivings about the TPP. I was completely opposed to it. I would welcome you divorcing yourself from the political elites in this country but I think you have a few extra steps to take. Denounce both sides as mostly self-serving and acting in the interest of corporations while screwing the little guy and we might be getting closer to seeing eye to eye.

Armchair, you hope for a certain cabinet appointment.
There will need to be some outside cabinet appointments.
As an example, do you think Winston Churchill would have appointed
Edward Mosely, the head of the British Fascist Party as head of MI5 ?

Well the head if the CIA is a moslem.
I have a list of moslems in very significant positions including
intelligence jobs.
I have the list on my hard drive SOMEWHERE !
When I find it I will add it here.

Ahh, here it is !
Agree ! *Here is something to think about** while Americans slept Obama and Dems handed over country to the Islamic mafia ! check http://tinyurl.com/j5yebuj

(This information has all been checked, then double checked… it is 100% Correct.)

That’s why there is such an alarm within US government, since Trump’s statement about temporary suspension of migration of Muslims to US till US authorities make sure there is a proper concept of safe penetration of US territory.

People are stunned to learn that the head of the U.S. CIA is a Muslim!

Do hope this wakes up some!

You mean until it hits you like a ton of bricks read it again, until you understand!

We now have a Muslim government.

John Brennan, current head of the CIA converted to Islam while stationed in Saudi Arabia.

Obama’s top adviser, Valerie Jarrett, is a Muslim who was born in Iran where her parents still live.

Hillary Clinton’s top adviser, Huma Abedin is a Muslim, whose mother and brother are involved in the now outlawed Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Assistant Secretary for Policy Development for Homeland Security, Arif Aikhan, is a Muslim.

Homeland Security Adviser, Mohammed Elibiary, is a Muslim Brotherhood (Jihadi groups political arm) operative.

Obama adviser and founder of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, Salam al-Marayati, is a Muslim.

Obama’s Sharia Czar, Imam Mohamed Magid, of the Islamic Society of North America is a Muslim..

Advisory Council on Faith-Based Neighborhood Partnerships, Eboo Patel, is a Muslim.

Bazz,

"WOW"!

1/13/15: Nancy Pelosi announced she will appoint Rep Andre Carson, D-Ind, as the first Muslim lawmaker on the House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. It would make Carson the first Muslim to serve on the committee that receives intelligence on the threat of Islamic militants in the Middle East! He has suggested

that U.S. schools should be modeled after Islamic madrassas, where education is based on the Quran!

And last but not least, our closet Muslim himself, Barack Hussein Obama.

It’s questionable if Obama ever officially took the oath of office when he was sworn in. He didn’t repeat the oath properly to defend our nation and our Constitution. Later the Democrats claimed he was given the oath again
in private.

CIA director John Brennan took his oath on a copy of the Constitution, not a Bible..?

Valarie Jarret wrote her college thesis on how she wanted to change America into a Muslim friendly nation and she is a Obama top advisor.

Congressman, Keith Ellison took his oath on a copy of the Qur’an.

Congresswoman Michele Bachman was vilified and verbally tarred and feathered by Democrats when she voiced her concern about Muslims taking over our government.

Considering all these appointments, it would explain why Obama and his minions are systematically destroying
our nation, supporting radical Muslim groups worldwide, opening our southern border, and turning a blind eye to
the genocide being perpetrated on Christians all over Africa and the Middle East.

The more damage Obama does, the more arrogant he’s become!

Our nation and our government has been infiltrated by people who want to destroy us. It can only get worse!

If you fail to pass this one on, there’s something wrong.. Somewhere!

In his book obama said, “if it comes down to it, I would side with the Muslims”. (And still, some insist he isn’t Muslim!)
unquote
It is a bit big, but there it is and I have not seen it denied.

"Whose stance do you prefer?"

Trump must have the idea of decreasing export costs by infrastructure improvement in the industrial states, but working against it is reciprocation of his tariffs by those affected by his, raising costs. It's a zero-sum game.

USA is big enough to run an isolated domestic economy, but we are not. We've little choice other than to pursue bilateral trade agreements. The US may withdraw from the TPP, so we'll be looking for a separate deal with the US.

The simplistic economic politics of The Donald sounds all well and good, but in reality would they work. 45% tariff on Chinese imports, that should reduce demand for imports. Should see mushroom industries pop up in the US to fill the gap, more US jobs, sounds good, some job losses from export orientated industries.However as the Chinese might not take it lying down. The Chinese impose retaliatory tariffs on the US imports, plus the decline in the Chinese economy will see less demand, and even less imports from all over the place including Australia, Canada, Mexico, they will need to introduce taraffs to save their economies. Then there is the US inflationary aspect as the new high cost local industries hit the market with their higher prices and government subsidies, but there is The Donald's lower taxes so a bigger deficit to give out those subsidies and build new infrastructure, pay the dole etc. All win win, is it not?

http://time.com/money/4282166/donald-trump-tariff-plan-cost/

Hi Paul,

You reckon ? Where do most Yanks go shopping ? Walmart. Where does Walmart make most of its goods ? China. Dumb-dumb: so either Yanks pay around 45 % more for their cheap goods (thanks, Donald), or US companies re-locate back to the US ?

I don't see it. Why won't they simply re-locate to the Philippines, or Vietnam, or, in time, Africa ? i.e. anywhere but back to high-wage US ? Maybe this could be a lose-lose situation, higher prices for Trump's voters under an anti-China tariff, then no new jobs for Trump's voters as promised. After all, capital can go anywhere: as Marx said, it knows no home-country. And it certainly won't go back to a high-wage environment.

Christ, it could even go to Russia. Would Trump impose a tariff on goods from his bum-buddy ?

Buckle up, etc.

Joe

Hey Bazz,
You make a good point about outside cabinet appointments, and Bachman's comments are revealing.
I had heard the story somewhere that Brennan had converted to Islam whilst in Saudi Arabia; also that Obama himself might privately be a muslim (Your last comment settles that argument) ; so it doesn't surprise me all the Muslim appointments. Nice List.
I wouldn't like to assume all Muslims working within the US government are automatically bad people, but your information about those who are top of their department is certainly concerning.
- I heard someone on a talkshow in the last week suggest Israel and the Saudi's are fighting for influence of the government.

In any case the whole system had become endemically corrupt.
So corrupt that if things kept going in the direction they were going through another Clinton Presidency it would've been the end of America.
You had the Whitehouse, State Department, FBI and Justice Department (as well as the media) all in bed together covering for each other like this huge out of control cancer that required nothing less than being completely cut out.
Some of the military commanders might need replacing too.

Since writing my last comment I found that Trump actually tweeted in July that he would appoint Gowdy as AG; so it's no surprise they are talking about pardons.
http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-donald-trump-just-announced-his-pick-for-attorney-general-hillarys-worst-nightmare/
Gowdy won't hesitate to tear her limb from limb.

There are some good arguments against tariffs and protectionism and for free markets.
I'd encourage everyone to watch a good thought provoking interview from Ron Paul that includes some some history here.

Hillary v. Trump on Trade: Who's Right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-IALJSaoT8

But there's also many good arguments against Globalism and protecting a nations jobs and industries as well which many commenters including myself have at one point or another pointed out.

Dear Bazz,

Mate you really are from the fringe aren't you. What absolute bollocks. Which fruit loop conspiracy sites are you now claiming to be gospel truth?

Tell you what, put up your most compelling piece of evidence that the head of the CIA is a Muslim convert and let us see where it leads. In fact pick any of your tin foil hat trash.

What a whacker.

And what on earth is this?

“It’s questionable if Obama ever officially took the oath of office when he was sworn in. He didn’t repeat the oath properly to defend our nation and our Constitution. Later the Democrats claimed he was given the oath again in private.”

Mate if you are identifying this bloody strongly as a Yank then perhaps you should hope on the next leaky boat had head over there. As a place where the inmates have control of the asylum I'm sure you would be welcomed.

Interesting that The Donald also proposes a 35% tariff on the Mexicans, which has a similar trading relationship with the US as does Canada. Yet The Donald proposes no such tariff on the Canadians, what colours Trumps thinking, why no big tariff on the Canadians?

Although on a much smaller scale Australia's trade deficit with the US is similar to the US deficit with China. Does anyone support Australia applying a 45% tariff on US imports?
We could start a new car industry in Adelaide, producing the all Australian V8 car, call it the 'Jumbuck' retail for $100k, will sell like hot cakes. Employ half of South Aussie to build it. We should all embrace Donaldism!

Dear Paul,

I would imagine it is directed at US firms who have exported jobs to both China and Mexico. He knows his base, why wouldn't he after all those years of chasing ratings in reality television, and it is them he is looking to respond to.

Let me get this right Paul.

You think US workers should give up their jobs to China, so we can export a bit more iron ore & coal to China. Now that is taking demands a bit far.

I knew the greens were crazy, but I thought you were against our coal exports. Talk about muddled thinking trying to support the unsupportable.

The topic: "Oh what a beautiful morning..."

For how many?

When Mr Donald Trump was elected I saw people looking depressed and say they wanted to go out for a drink, like a bottle of gin... or others wanting to pop out a bottle of champagne and congratulate Mr Trump on his magnificent win.

For these Australians though, (who no doubt drank into the night).... what about others?

It wasn't a 'beautiful morning' for many other people. For example there are currently about 50 dictatorships in place worldwide and living in these countries is nothing short of horrid.

Expressions of shock, views on lack of democracy in the U.S, seeing Hillary Clinton supporters in tears or attitudes of happiness in terms of a Trump election, I would encourage these people to calm down and look at the outcome in terms of worldwide life and reality.

Finally, in terms of the U.S election result, I'm certainly not going to be turning to alcohol or be partying on into the night.

Hi Paul & Steele,

Den pirazi. Don't worry too much, this too will pass.

Áspri iméra ke ya mas. There will be better days, even for us.

As Drumpf stuffs up, again and again, what do you think of the chances for Michelle Obama in 2020 ?

Live in hope :)

Cheers,

Joe

Don't bet on it for them Loudmouth. The Green/Left blob has been like a Tsunami, destroying everything in it's path. Fortunately in the end all things evil run out of steam, & the western world's political Tsunami is past its zenith, & on the wane. Soon it will be just a nasty memory, like Hitler or Stalin, but of considerably less importance.

Just one thing. Could you please tell me why those who dislike the British & other European monarchies seems to want to generate political monarchies.

Why on earth would one want another Obama, surely one was bad enough, Particularly when the US has barely avoided a second Clinton?

Why did they have 2 Bushes? While the first one was a good idea at the time, a second was going a bit far.

Then it was only assassins bullets that prevented a Kennedy dynasty taking over the US.

North Korea have done it among more than a few European republics, Why

Dear Loudmouth,

Sure there is plenty to be worried about not only because the man is an egomaniac but because he scares the hell out of my very conservative, evangelical christian father-in-law. Why? Because as a German growing up under Hitler he says the similarities are terrifying. I keep trying to dismiss his fears but the man is quite adamant.

But being an optimistic sort of a bloke I can see a raft of things being helped by Trump. For instance he may well be going to kill of the EPA but the Chinese use three times the amount of energy per unit of production than the US. Every bit of manufacturing returned to American soil is going to help the environment tremendously. Further there will not be too many union leaders unhappy with jobs returning through tariff protection.

And it will be interesting to see if another Liberal ever again accuses those against a free trade deal with China of being xenophobia.

' Because as a German growing up under Hitler he says the similarities are terrifying. I keep trying to dismiss his fears but the man is quite adamant.'

relax Steelie planned parenthood with funding from Obama and Hilary acted far more like Hitler than Trump will. Just take a look at how Hilary's violent supporters are reacting to democracy.

So much for "experts" and polls!

Steele, no need to be nasty. Obviously I cannot affirm from first hand
knowledge that the CIA head is a moslem, but I have seen it repeated
and not denied several times.
Such statements about such high level officers of government would
draw very substantial denials.
So there it is and it is not from tin hat sites and I suggest you
google it yourself and judge the sources yourself.
I have done my bit by drawing attention to something I have seen lets
see if you can put it out of its misery.

Dear Bazz,

Nasty? Hardly. I felt I was telling it exctly how it is. Your devotion to posting unsubstantiated drivel on this site is indeed a wonder to behold and as usual when asked to back it up you are found to be completely incapable.

“Such statements about such high level officers of government would
draw very substantial denials.”

Such 'statements' are from the tinhat brigade like yourself and while I do think the director is an evil little man he is hardly going to respond to every crackpot or he would be doing little else.

So you got anything besides madeup trash to offer us?

Well Steele, I agree the accusation about Brennan is somewhat airey fairy
but you made no comment on the others. Why ?

OH MY GOD, there's Muslims in America?

And at least half a dozen of them work for the government?

HOLY CRAP, why were we not told?

How bloody scandalous!

Dear Armchair critic,

Sorry mate I kept getting distracted by the other headlining stories on your most trustworthy new source.

Here a couple of the hard hitting pieces;

“Is she an auntie or a stepmom? Tyga's girlfriend Kylie Jenner babysits King Cairo after Blac Chyna gave birth to daughter Dream”

and

“'I never regretted my decision': Caitlin Stasey reveals she had an abortion, aged 22... in an apparent response to President-elect Donald Trump's anti-abortion stance”

Yup look like you have convinced me.

Oh wait, Bazz is now saying the evidence is airy fairy, sorry mate, ya lost me.

Dear Bazz,

You asked why I picked the CIA fabrication? Simply because it was on the top of your list. If you felt inclined to substantiate another I'm happy to have a crack.

Dear Hasbeen,

You really don't get this do you. You keep thinking this was a victory for the right. Here is a video of Michael Moore not only predicting a Trump win 5 months out but giving the reasons why and even saying how it would be done. The true left got it. I have little doubt that Trump will shaft these voter pretty quickly but for now I certainly don't blame them for the way they voted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDRqeuLNag&feature=youtu.be

Dear Paul,

It might be worth you checking it out too if you haven't seen it yet.

Hey Steele Redux,
Well you guys know I'll dig the stuff up...
I wasn't claiming the allegation was substantiated, just providing a source for it...

Hi Steele,

I like and respect the work of Michael Moore, his American social commentary is spot on. I have a number of his doco's myself.
What he puts forward in those 4 minutes is absolutely true.
I, like your father-in-law also see similarities, it scares me as to where this can lead. Is there a danger that the Mexicans could become the 'New Jews'. Am I an alarmist to think that at some future point a war with China could well be seen as necessary. Trump attracted millions of the politically and economically disposed, good decent people which the Capitalists system has disenfranchised, they deserve better, but he also attracted the extreme, the ratbags and the hate people. There are those that are saying "Don't worry the hate speak from The Donald was only rhetoric for the masses, it will all be different when he is elected." I am not so sure. Your father-in-law is right to the extent that there are dangers in this to be recognized, and the world needs to be most careful, and not be swept up in some blind euphoria and ignore the dangers.
What no one can say is where on the political Richter scale does Trump lie, he could be a benign 5, then again he could be an explosive 10. Its going to be an expensive lesson to find out.

I'm seeing a mix of commentary from the left post election. Some is very good pointing to the way the hurts of many have been dismissed by "progressives", pointing to the failures in ignoring Clinton's history and other problems and calling for a rethink. Others are doing the nothing to see here folks, its all about the dumb voters who put Trump in.

It seems unlikely that the right can be willing to learn much that's good from this at the moment. Victory has a way of taking the impitus out of a cleanup but there is plenty of opportunity for the left to clean the house. An opportunity that can easily be lost if those who are OK with the Clinton way if doing things are allowed to hang onto their influence.

Its clear that many are desperate for a better deal. The choice for the left seems to be to continue to dismiss and ignore them and see their votes go to extremist populists or start honestly dealing with their concerns and look for solutions that work.

R0bert

Now that the predictions by the elite have been proved wrong, the only thing that remains constant is the huge dummy spit of the loony Left, which cannot, and will never be able to, come to grips with the fact not everyone believes in their bulldust. The pendulum is starting to swing back to sanity all over the world. Cameron has gone, Merkel is going, Trudeau with his maniacal immigration will be next, and Turnbull will have to go soon. As Trump declares he is finished with the climate change fraud, brainless Turnbull intends to spend more of our money on the rubbish and send idiots to Marrakesh. The media has gone into a frenzy, guts-aching and spreading fear about Trump's 'awful' effect on Australia. The only difference Trump's election will mean is that we are going to have to start pulling our weight on ANZUS, and spending decent amounts of money on defence, instead of on welfare, illegal immigrants, immigration and stifling free speech, recognition of 3% of the population and spending billions on them. We are among the bludgers who Trump is sick of America supporting, and we think that we are the U.S's best ally. Europe, the Philippines and Japan are going to start crapping themselves, too and start supporting America and not rubbishing it. China is going to have to pull its ugly, aggressive head in. The cultural Marxist are going to have to crawl back to their smelly middens and stay there. The new leader of the Free World is here.

Hey ttbn,
I hear there's a fairly good chance Marine Le Pen will win power in France in next May.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/731002/Marine-Le-Pen-will-National-Front-leader-win-French-election-latest-odds-polls-President

The EU federalists in Brussels must be literally beside themselves at this point.

Ah here we go, more fake rightwingers saying this was a victory of the right over the left. It was no such thing. This was a victory for a powerful anti-establishment sentiment and its impact on the Democratic vote. Trump got less votes than Romney and McCain even though the population of the US has risen in that period. It was less about support for Trump but rather the lack of support for Hillary, deemed by the people who counted, as too tied to the establishment.

It is laughable watching pseudo-right try and claim it as their own when it patently was not.

Dear Paul,

Here's the thing mate, you viewed the video and it resonated with you but perhaps you left it at that. From it you might have gotten the impression that Moore favoured Trump over Hillary, someone he said he would never vote for because of her support for the Gulf war. The opposite is true.

What the Trump supporter who put it together failed to do was to include Moore's words 'and it will feel good for a day, perhaps a week, possibly a month'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b81BRhZOqAQ

Moore went on to urge people to get out and mobilise for Hillary, far more in fear of a Trump presidency than support for a Hillary one and I think he was spot on.

For all his rhetoric about the establishment Trump has announced Newt Gingritch as the person in charge of the transition in place of Christy. Further Rudy Giuliani is likely to be the new AG. It would be difficult to think of more establishment figures than those two.

For the record I agree with you and think Trump is a bad, dangerous, lying, corrupt, arrogant man with very few redeeming qualities who will undoubtedly shaft those who put him into the presidency. I would love to be proved wrong for all our sake.

Surely you are not endorsing that charlaton/scaremonger Michael Moore are you steelie. Move on the gw hoax is just that. Next you will be endorsing Al Gore's fantasies. The people have woken up albeit vey slowly. Coal is not the evil product that the hypocrites have made it out to be.

weird election result, Trump 19800k Clinton 21700k roughly from
memory but Trump wins. Of course we can get a result like that with
preferential voting.
As far as I know they vote first past the post but then this electoral
college gets in the act. Does it have preferential voting ?
Is this what Trump said was unfair ?

Still thems the rules.
Did these rules get set before the telegraph came into widespread use ?
I see they vote on Tuesday because market day was Wednesday in towns
and it was too far to go in one day to vote. So weekends was out.

Hi Bazz,

It was much closer than that, a couple of hundred thousand out of nearly a hundred million.

Not that it actually matters. Each state has a number of electoral college votes, set before the election, but (when you think about it) nobody can predict how many people will NOT vote in a particular state. So whoever gets the most votes in a state, takes all of the electoral college votes for that state. Sort of first past the post.

So it really doesn't matter what the final vote count is, electoral college votes are all that matter.

Joe

Steely, trying to rationalise away what you don't like is just another way of lying to yourself.

You will never wake up while you tell yourself porkies. The right won the senate, the house & the presidency. You can prattle on for ever, but the fact is they hold all the rains, & Clinton's survival as a free woman will depend on them being magnanimous.

You may be right in as much as Trump is not a rabid right, but there is no doubt, the rabid left have been thrown out.

There is also a question of why. Perhaps it is no longer right & left, but ratbag green & the rest. Like Labor here, the Democrats have been captured by the ratbag green element, who have become ever more demanding in exchange for their support.

Acquiescing to these demands have lead these parties so far astray, that the country & many citizens are suffering. It is this that has given the result, & is likely to destroy both parties if they don't wake up damn quickly.

I said in another topic that Labors vote buying was becoming counter productive. In a growing number of areas buying ratbag votes costs more in lost normal votes that it wins. Time for a clean out of the crooks & the ratbags.

Hi Hasbeen,

There is no (serious) left in American, are you saying Hillary Clinton is a Bolshevik, then again given your world view you probably think Dick Smith is also a Bolshevik.

Hi Steele,

You are spot on as always, like my partner who is far more radical than me, she sees/hopes for some good to come out of all this, the eternal optimists, I am somewhat more pessimistic, read too much history I suppose.

Change the subject, seen our favorite Island Band last night, at least they haven't changed, good as ever.

Hi Paul,

I fear that you are right, that there isn't a real Left in America - and perhaps not in Australia either. An anti-democratic pseudo-Left, yes, probably mostly Trots and unreconstructed Stalinists like Rhiannon.

After all, a key principle of democracy is that, of all those who can and do vote, whichever candidate gains the most votes, wins, even if he/she is hated by a large proportion of voters. The majority wins. Those who did not vote for the winner have to cop it. There'll always be a next time.

The pseudo-Left, or more likely their adolescent children, can't accept that democratic principle, hence the "Not My President" signs and childish tantrums in cities across the US. I certainly wouldn't have voted for Drumpf, not that Clinton would be much better, but not being a Yank and observing the democratic vote, at least in its electoral college form, I cop it.

But look on the bright side: if Clinton had won, it would have been more of the same status quo which Obama had to put up with, if not worse. By 2020, she would have been so reviled that the Democrats would be out in the wilderness until 2028 at least. I don't think I've got that long :)

But with Drumpf crapping on countries all around the world for the next four years and failing to bring back jobs to America, there is a hope that Michelle Obama will re-consider and run for office in 2018, and from there, win a landslide for the Democrats in 2020 (and 2024).

I'd like to see that :)

Cheers,

Joe

LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION.
The elite people like rich boys Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull have been out of touch with the "deplorable" 90%.For 99% of their lives.
Notice the elite who have been insulting Trump.
At the next election I hope the "deplorable 90% knock off the insulting elite members of Parliament.
If evil men can work together then Good men can.
A really good week for Good men and women.

Dear Hasbeen,

My goodness young fella you seem to have a rather unique view of the world that is not supported by facts.

Look, the Democrats out polled the Republicans in the Whitehouse race 60.1 millions votes to 59.8. They out polled Republicans in the Senate by a large margin (45.2 million to 39.3) taking 3 seats off them and they have taken back 7 seats in the House of Representatives.

Even if we call the Democrats left, which is a big ask, trying to label this a rout of the left is just absurd. It is no such thing.

Here is a little test for you.

The Chinese-Australia free trade agreement raised legitimate concerns it is would allow large numbers of Chinese workers, many not properly qualified, into this country. Article 10.4.3 says that neither side shall:

“impose or maintain any limitations on the total number of visas to be granted to natural persons of the other Party; or require labour market testing, economic needs testing or other procedures of similar effect as a condition for temporary entry”.

What was Abbott's response to those concerns?

"These free trade agreements are too important for our country, they're too important for our businesses and too important for our children to be sacrificed at the altar of short-term xenophobic politics" Tony Abbott 2015

Cont..

Cont..

Where do you think the sympathies would lie of those in the rust belt states who got Trump the presidency? Indeed who is best representative of the true right in your mind? Trump or Abbott?

To me labeling as a racist someone holding very real fears for their own jobs and those of their children is far more reprehensible than using the same label to those screaming for right to vilify someone based on race. But then that is just my world view.

I have been banging on incessantly about the million plus 457 jobs going to non-Australians, a fact which many rightwhingers here have chosen to willfully ignore. Instead you carry on like pork chops over 20,000 refugees and 18C. You lot really do need to get off your backsides, start supporting Australians, and tell the Gina Rhienharts of this world (one of the largest individual user of 457 workers) that we are not going to wear it any more.

But you probably won't.

Steely I agree with much of the above, but you are so totally wrong on one point it negates everything you got right.

No one has to go in fear of the foreign workers. While I agree totally that we should be offering training to our own & not bringing in foreign workers, it is not them that has the mother of my son in-law with bars & deadlocks all over her house in Penrith.

It is not foreign workers who make her drive 35 kilometres to a different area to go shopping. It is not them who have devalued the houses these people built many years ago. It is not even boat people.

No it is black Africans, brought here as genuine refugees who are terrorising Ozzy citizens, who deserve better.

Our politicians, academics & even bureaucrats are well enough paid that they don't have to live in areas that are suffering. The ratbag greenie fringe live in areas far too expensive for these "refugee" thugs.

The refugees after WW11 were different people. They couldn't say thankyou enough. These today have only one word, gimmee, & it's a total demand. If you haven't seen it, you're very lucky.

Well, the U.S democrats are certainly the equivalent of the Australian Labor Party and, like the ALP, they are hostage to the Greens and so-called progressives. The first Socialist, collectivist (the correct description for proggressives who are anything but progressive) was Woodrow Wilson. Jimmy Carter was another one as was Lyndon Johnson and of course, Barack Obama. All Democrats. At least the ALP didn't go really bad until Keating onwards.

I don't know how 457 visas got a gurnsey in this thread, but Steel Nuts has a valid point, although it seems to be easier for our useless politicians to bring foreigners in rather than kicking lazy Australians off their arses and welfare to do the jobs foreigners are getting.

ttbn, I note you leave out Franklin D Roosevelt, America's greatest social progressive that ever lived. Also Abraham Lincoln who was willing to fight a civil war because of his progressive beliefs. Then there is George Washington who led a government of "radicals" there names are on the Declaration of Independence. A document that contained ever more radial ideas for its time than any communists manifesto. How about including John F Kennedy a champion of civil rights, something as alien to many Americans in those days as were men from Mars. Despite all these crazy radicals and progressives Capitalism has done very well in America over the past couple of hundred years.

"At least the ALP didn't go really bad until Keating onwards." No mention of the DLP split in 1955 which involved both ideological and religious nonsense, kept Labor out of office for nearly 20 years. You didn't include the conservatives great progressive sinner Gough Whitlam, why not?

Nothing like talking from a point of ignorance is there ttbn. On 457's, it is far more profitable for the likes of Gina Rhinovirus to import low cost labour in the guise of "tradies" rather than spend time and money training young Australians. With a few well placed singular references to "dole bludgers" by shock jocks, and populists current affairs programs people such as you are quick to accept all as being the fault of the lazy mass of unemployed. Conservative politicians included.

Paul, the numbers of 457 Visa's on Pilbara mine sites has dwindled significantly over the past 18 months. Primarily they are on the bigger construction/upgrade projects in the region.

The greater worry for Australian tradies on shutdowns & maintenance is the influx of dodgy trade certificated folk coming in from the Mumbai region. I have been told by several of their com-padres that a "trade certificate" can be obtained over there for about $350 - $375 ($Australian equivalent).

Personally having witnessed some of these people apply 3/4" inch drive pneumatic rattle guns and break off 20mm + diameter nuts by simply not knowing which direction of rotation to undo fasteners is scary to witness.

That there are also 'coded welders' with even dodgier welding test certificates signed off for a mere $500 makes me want to go back to driving taxi's in Sydney again. The chooks will no doubt come home to roost when welded joints begin to fatigue and corrode out some time in the next few years...I would hate to be on an LNG plant when this happens.

Oh Gina...did anyone happen to mention the hourly rates you pay these monkeys ? As little as $12.50 per hour (Australian) and where are the union heavies...nowhere to be seen within hundreds of kilometres of the said sites.

Paul,

Sorry. I wasn't aware that I needed to mention every Socialist dirtbag who ever ruined a country.

Paul, again,

As I just skim your posts - and then only when I seem that you mention me, I missed your reference to Goofy Gough. Since when was a Fabian a conservative? It seems to me that you only posted your unecessary tripe because you've got crap on the liver because the Yanks saw through your lot, or playing with yourself has become boring.

ttbn,

Suffering from a comprehension problem are we? I never said Gough was a conservative, I said "the conservatives (you being one) great progressive sinner Gough Whitlam, why not?

ttbn I accept your apology. Go and stand in the sorry corner for one hour, that should be sufficient penance.

Not one of our green blob contributors prepared to discuss the disgusting result of the African refugee intake making Ozzy taxpayers, who foot the bill for all this, prisoners in their own homes.

I guess our lefties are prepared to sacrifice these Ozzies, to give them that warm feeling of helping their fellow man. Pity they don't feel the same way about their fellow Ozzies, you know, the ones whose taxes pay for all this stupidity.

'I guess our lefties are prepared to sacrifice these Ozzies, to give them that warm feeling of helping their fellow man'

sadly never from their own pockets Hasbeen. Always at the workers expense.

Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote;

“I guess our lefties are prepared to sacrifice these Ozzies, to give them that warm feeling of helping their fellow man. Pity they don't feel the same way about their fellow ozzies, you know, the ones whose taxes pay for all this stupidity.”

Ah well. Thought it was too good to last.

Happy to discuss your codswallop.

Right. Firstly mate I don't think you are paying any taxes so let's get off that high horse.

Secondly, just because someone hasn't immediately responded to you squeezing your bile ducts doesn't mean you get to attribute anything to anybody. Some of us lead busy lives.

Anyway to the issue at hand. Each of us has different experiences. We have a number of Sudanese players is our club and what a great bunch they are, their parents are also extremely polite and welcoming. Yesterday I had the dubious honour of having an 'Aussie' parent front up to pick his son up from training with a stubbie in his hand and proceeded to threaten to 'knock my block off'. Not something I would put up with but his son loves the game and the family obviously has issues so we talked him down. Middle aged white male never-weres living their sporting dreams through their kids are the worst. I would put them on a boat tomorrow. Can we swap?

Dear runner,

Christians make up over 3/4s of Sudanese refugees to Australia, mostly from South Sudan. South Sudan is predominately Christian and during the Sudanese civil war many sought refuge here. The mainly Muslim North was blamed for much of the violence. Thing is when South Sudan separated from the North to become an independent nation the bloodshed just kept occurring at a furious pace, but now among the Southeners.

What is it that makes the Sudanese Christian population so prone to violence, genocide, rape and mass executions? Perhaps it is the religion?

//No it is black Africans, brought here as genuine refugees who are terrorising Ozzy citizens, who deserve better.//

Black people are more frightened of you than you are of them, Hasbeen. Just leave them alone and you'll be fine. You might want to avoid wearing your Klan dress in public as well.

At several of the pubs I frequent in the Newtown area of Sydney the security on Friday, Saturday night is provided by Black Africans. These guys are hired by white pub owners to deal with mostly late night troublesome white guys.

Steele, I posted earlier that I went out to our favorite Island band on Saturday night, we enjoy island. reggae music etc. When I first met my partner "T" and she took me to these functions and Maori hangi's and other Maori gatherings both here and in NZ, I was somewhat apprehensive, stereotyping causes ignorance, I was ignorant of these black people, believing they were violent drunks who went around bashing white guys like me, and being in the extreme minority at times, you know what I mean.
Nothing could be further from the truth. With older folks in attendance there is no way young people will step out of line, they have too much respect for what the old people say.
Once we left a venue, about midnight, and 3 big Islanders, Tongans, were getting out of hand with each other, pushing and shoving. "T" who is five foot nothing immediately stepped in between them without fear, and gave them a dressing down, it all stopped, with much apology of "sorry aunty", They were actually 3 brothers and were having an altercation about a girl, who 2 of the boys were keen on.
These days I feel safer inside with the black people than outside with the crazy people.

Thanks guys we get it! White people BAD and black people GOOD. I actually did the Capitals like a sheep baaing lol!
Give me a quick description of racism while you are at it.

No, JBowyer its not that way at all, did you read Hasbeen's post.

"Not one of our green blob contributors prepared to discuss the disgusting result of the African refugee intake making Ozzy taxpayers, who foot the bill for all this, prisoners in their own homes."

There are criminals in ALL ethnic groups, but to generalize and stereotype a particular minority like Black Africans as an entire group of criminals is wrong. The solution is to deal with all offenders through the criminal justice system.

Paul when have these people been dealt with any other way but the Justice System? Oh yes i remember they started throwing rocks at any cop cars daring to come on the Newmarket estate some lived and there were several riots. Then they took the coppers to court to complain about the coppers being racist. They did not win but the cops were told to tone it down and let's all be friends. That worked well didn't it?
Point is you said that White bad and then non white not good but the best. I suggest you sit in the Melbourne Magistrates Court for a few hours and see what a triumph this policy has been.
Racism is racism as soon as you say one is better then you are being racist as you were!

JBowyer, I never said black people are better than white people, or white people are worse than black people etc etc. What I did say was do not generalize or stereotype a particular ethnic group.
You, like Hasbeen point to bad behavior involving Black Africans, is that bad behavior a direct result of their skin colour, or is it due to some other factor(s), or a combination of the two? Is it a few, or many, is it all?

Again I iterate, matters of a criminal nature have to be dealt with through the criminal justice system. If that system is failing society then it needs fixing, that is an issue in itself.

What do you believe should be done?

Africans belong in Africa

Actually the more I think about it the more it infuriates me.
Really none of you have seen the issues that have gone on in America for like ever with whites and African Americans.... and some so-called Aussie though "Geez, what we need here is an African Australian contingent, to polarize and divide our cities on racial lines..."

Seriously you people are like 'criminality should be dealt with through the courts'....
No it shouldn't, If they mess up it means you didn't vet them properly.
The Aussie needs to be fired and foreigners committing crimes need to be imprisoned and sent back to where they came from.

Paul just for a start I would insist that any complaint of "Racism" was treated the same as racism which is surely is. Some nonsense about he had a go at me because of the colour of my skin if this is found to be a not guilty verdict then the complainant is charged with racism. Give a few 12 month sentences to people making spurious complaints and see what happens.
And Paul you most certainly did stereo type white males as thugs in your post and Africans, Islanders and Maori as the best sort of people. That is racism whether in trendy Newtown or whatever. Mate I know you are just a two bob poseur but read what you write in future.

JBowyer. like a typical right wing ratbag when you have nothing else to offer, or confronted with an alternate opinion, you resort to personal attack, go for it lad. You are mot my "mate" so please do not refer to me as your "mate". Is that the best you can do? Dealing with a immature name calling uneducated adolescent such as yourself can be tiresome, but please do your best.
Anything else to say?

Paul Maaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Thanks for calling me adolescent, that was lovely, appreciated!
Your remarks were racist. Read the post and that is exactly what it was. Your type make me laugh. You and all your wonderful Islander, African and Maori mates against all us wuff Australians? Laughable
I repeat my challenge, Melbourne Magistrates Court and see the proportion of offenders relative to the numbers in Australia. Oh yes careful of any of us wuff types too.

JBowyer, at 97 years of age you are not likely to be physically in the adolescent stage, probably more in a stage of decrepitcy. Rest assured I would always give up my seat on the bus to an old timer such as your good self, as you make your regular daily trip to watch the unfolding events down at the Melbourne Magistrates Court, admission free I assume.
No... from your posts, peppered with juvenile insults, you appear to be more of adolescent of mind.
Pay my air ticket to Melbourne and I'll sit all day with you in that court house. On second thoughts, too boring, and I have better things to do with my time. Pass!

Dear JBowyer,

So if I were to attend the Melbourne Magistrates Court tomorrow what would you expect me to find?

For instance would defendants with African names out number those with English sounding names? What about outnumbering Eastern European names, or even specifically those with let's say Greek names?

Or what about just a percentage? Would those with African names be 30% of those called? 20%? 10%?

Or don't you want to commit to a figure? Are generalisations your go?

Ah Steely and Pauli! No chance of you ever getting out and having a look is there. You can rely on the resident lefty meeja! Well even they are having to fess up to us having a problem developing. Mind you this started with Malcolm Fraser's Lebanese crime families and now we have African gangs on the street.
My challenge stands, go and see and then ponder on the percentage of Africans in our population and how many are facing charges in our courts.
I would say I have seen on public transport many polite and friendly Africans but it must surely irk them also when you idiots stick up for criminals. On the basis of their race.

Dear JBowyer,

Nah mate, not good enough. You are acting just like a politician, squirming away trying to dodge the question.

Okay let me make it simple. If I went to the Melbourne Magistrates Court tomorrow in what percentage of the cases would the defendants have African or Lebanese names?

Shouldn't be too difficult for you to answer this as you seem to have been bloody sure of yourself thus far.

Hi Paul & Steele,

Perhaps what Jim Bowyer is getting at is that the percentage of African, Maori, Polynesian, Muslim and perhaps Aboriginal kids that one may see in court on a Monday morning may be somewhat higher than their percentage in the general youth population.

I had to attend court some years back for a nephew in Auckland, a Polynesian-Australian, and yes, a high proportion of kids before the court were Maori and/or Polynesian. Similarly, many years ago, in a regional court here in SA, half the kids up before the beak seemed to be Aboriginal. [Does anybody still use terms like 'beak' ?]

Is there a correlation between unemployment, idleness and the commission of crimes, usually dumb-arse acts ? Between poor education and unemployment before that ? And of course, the commission of crimes and the incarceration of the committers ? Ergo, low SES, poor education, unemployment and idleness, rather than ethnicity, may be the drivers of crime and incarceration ?

Not knowing for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was happening to Vietnamese youth fifteen to twenty years ago. They seem to have worked through that.

Just asking.

How did the topic veer to this subject ? Amazing.

Joe

Steel get off your backside and see! I think Africans are less than one percent of the population but there are plenty at the magistrates Court. At one court a few months ago of eight defendants, four were African. Now this seems to be an unusually large number but I am just saying what I saw. In every case it involved African drunks getting into fights. Sit on your backsides and go to the Court listings and see how many obviously muslim names are in the court record.
Now you can start squealing about exaggeration. Mate you and the other idiot, not only don't get it but neither of you have any intention of finding out. I have been there and have also heard the police on 3AW complaining about Somali's and Sudanese over ten years ago.
Do not worry chaps but remember your bleating when P Hanson Party starts cleaning up lol.

Dear JBowyer,

You wrote;

“Sit on your backsides and go to the Court listings and see how many obviously muslim names are in the court record.”

Yup did that before I put my first question to you. Plus I have asked a magistrate friend of mine.

So I have a pretty good idea of the real figures not the ones garnered from listening to 3AW or some old racist codger who happened to waltz in to the Magistrates Court and only have eyes for skin colour or religion.

Which is why I, quite politely I thought, asked what you thought the figures were because I wanted to check them against reality. You have refused even to offer a guess, perhaps you sensed you would be caught out. Instead you call me an idiot.

So stop flapping your gums at me and come back when you have something to hang your argument on.

Steel, wow, mates who are magistrates and the font of all knowledge are you? You are full of it!
Challenge still there, get up and look, as for you had already checked the court lists? Please, that caught you out. What to do now?
My suggestion is stop trying to goad me into replying in a similar vein I am way above you matey.

Dear JBowyer,

The only thing I can truly garner from your post is just how childish your behaviour is.

You wrote;

“Steel, wow, mates who are magistrates and the font of all knowledge are you? You are full of it! Challenge still there, get up and look, as for you had already checked the court lists? Please, that caught you out. What to do now? My suggestion is stop trying to goad me into replying in a similar vein I am way above you matey.”

Let's try and make sense of it shall we.

I never claimed to be the font of all knowledge, you did, remember you are the one making the assertions here not me. I checked the figures then asked you to tell me what you thought they might be. You refused to do so and instead got churlish.

But this is not getting us anywhere so this might be a path forward.

A person can gain only a limited perspective from the lists which is why I asked a magistrate. He contends that less than 2% of those before the Melbourne Magistrates Court would be of African origin.

Obviously you have trust issues so here is the deal, I am happy to make myself available for a visit to the above mentioned court with you. It would have to be a morning session. We will take a note book and a pencil and we will start scoring. If the percentage by noon is above 2% I will by you lunch and if it is below it is your shout. Pick any day next week except for Wednesday.

Hi Steele, there is probably only one more painful thing in life than sitting through a session of the Melbourne Magistrates Court with JBowwyer, and that is having your eyebrows plucked by a 400 pound gorilla while sitting through a session of the Melbourne Magistrates Court with JBowyer. Your choice, don't say I didn't warn you.

Ps: Enjoy your free lunch. It's going to be JB's shout.

Pps: Don't you know Magistrates have no friends, they are all "No friends Nigel's". One unnamed contributer on the forum once though he had a magistrate friend, until he gave him 3 months for being a public nuisance. He sat day after day in his court room counting black fellas

On that note I'll finish with a song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI

Steel been there and done that and I told you what I saw. Go yourself and then report back here. I have no desire to have anything to do with you and certainly do not want to have you buying me lunch.
Check what you said first though. Proportion of African appearance appearing at the court and then against the numbers of Africans as a proportion of the overall population. Your beak mate said 2% in court? I would contend that the population of Africans in Aus would be less than 0.5% of the population, sounds about right. Four times the native born. Sounds like I was right then.
Also have a go at the media who are now finding how upset people get whenever there is a report of violent crime and no mention of the ethnicity, well we all know then what the ethnicity is.
The real point is you are why people voted for Trump. You and your lefty mates are not only not trusted but are actually despised by the majority of the population who you deride and insult. You and your boyfriend Paul can have a court date and tell each other how wonderful you are lol!

I don't know where you get your statistics from JBowyer, but I suspect that the sun doesn't shine there.

The proportion of African-Australians in the population is reported at approximately 1.6%.

Probably a higher proportion in Melbourne and major urban centres, but that can be argued another time.

So, whatevers. What you do to mark time in retirement before your inevitable mental and physical decline is up to you.

Most people spend it with family.

Thanks Bugsy I think you are the one plucking things out of thin air. Apparently there are 380,000 people who were born in Africa of our population of 23,795,663 that is less than one percent isn't it?
Wow instead of giving me retirement advice I think you had better join your mates in the big girl's toilets for a cry.
Oh by the way, Trump won, remember! You will be eating a large serve of umbles pie when the Donald shows what he can do.

If the Donald's math skills are as good as yours, JBowyer, then the world is screwed.

Personally, I have no opinion either way, but he does like courts as well.

Let's wait and see.

At least he has a large family that likes to hang around him, but that could be because he actually has money.

Aha Bugsy caught out, lying, you lose. Trump won!

What, Trump doesn't like courts or have money?

Consider me schooled then.

Oh BTW (380,000/23,795,663)*100= 1.5969%, or rounded out 1.6%

Now shut up and drink your Metamucil you old mathematical illiterate.