o sung wu,

"Even if the Coroner has completely exonerated him/her. If they return to duty, they'll 'ALWAYS' hesitate if confronted with a similar situation, thus endangering themselves, a third person, or a colleague. Psychologically they're buggered"

Surely your remarks above, don't apply to the late Ray Kelly, MBE, or Roger Rogerson, both killed but continued their careers, Roger is now where he belongs but Ray died peacefully of natural causes back in 1977.

Hi there IS MISE...

I've always respected your opinion IS MISE and I agree with your summation of the 'Dodger', but absolutely NOT 'Killer Kelly' as he was known throughout the old CIB. I've worked with the Dodger on several Task Forces, and I didn't know Kelly personally, only by his inside reputation within the CIB - but I don't think I'll say anything further - after all the blokes deceased.

I've worked on several occasions, with a couple of detectives who've shot and killed an offender, and believe me they weren't worth a bumper after all the legal processes had settled down. Both had become aggressive, heavy drinking, provocative and threatening language towards offenders, especially during the conduct of the old fashioned 'Record of Interview' process.

One of them now a divorcee, and a senior member of mine in my squad, arrived for muster pissed, and when I'd confronted him, he became aggressive to the point he threatened the duty Inspector, after the latter had left his office to see what all the ruckus was about! That member, who previously was looked upon as a sort of hero, left the job after causing a massive stink with another member over virtually nothing, again pissed to the eyeballs, I believe in both instances, their aberrant behaviour was symptomatic of PTSD! I was diagnosed with it myself, after my military service.

Mate I know you served in the Korean War, with 3RAR. While I served in South Vietnam, I'm sure you took part in many 'contacts' as did I, when we set out on ambush patrols. Killing was a very necessary and unpleasant part of war. However the calculated shooting of an offender, by a civilian policeman, is an entirely different proposition, then a soldier in wartime, completely different altogether.

The never ending legal process and other Departmental rigmarole associated with that shooting, is positively unbelievable, no matter how righteous that shooting may be determined, by the Coroner, you can believe me on that IS MISE.

Mate,

I was merely pointing out that not all police who killed in the line of duty were much affected by what they did, I personally know a couple who were not affected at all but just got on with the job.
I also knew of a Constable who fired a shot late one night in a Sydney street into the footpath behind a fleeing crim, the lead bullet flatend out and hit the crim in the testicles, fortunately he was wearing heavy work trousers and sustained no more than some severe brusing, but ever after when that Constable called on miscreants to stop, they skidded to a halt!

Another Constable, with whom I worked before he joined, was riding an outfit along Parramatta road in the mid 1950s, he spotted a stolen car about 2.00 AM near the University and gave chase; one of the occupants fired at him with a pistol so he pulled his trusty .25-20 Winchester M1892 carbine from the sidecar and put two shots through the back window, these also went through the windscreen and the car came to a screeching halt, three blokes spilled out and lay flat on the roadway.
The mate got a "wack over the knuckles" for using an unauthorized firearm.

Well there you go IS MISE; you obviously knew more coppers than I did?

FOI - in the 1950's most of the coppers carried the old Browning Pistols in .32 calibre, a beautifully engineered old gun, but not great for anything else but quite close range.

Good morning all. OSW, Is Mise, Nick, Hasbeen - the 'human factor' will always be with us and agreed OSW the poor old copper is stuffed either way...witness the Lindt Cafe Cock Up. Mebbe the SAS should have been called in for that one as it is was (eventually) categorised as a terrorist incident. This is how I earned a living during the 1980's - training up 'Sandy Berets' and NORFORCE patrolmen in weapons handling. The whole thing was a "cluster" as they say. Any dead hostage is 1 too many.

The lawyer sitting in his air conditioned office on Cavanagh st burning the midnight oil dissecting the events post incident has lots to work with and the luxury of infinite coffee breaks, air conditioning and a million "What if's" regarding what Constable Bloggs should or should not have done. Tony Abbott's and Bill Shorten's fathers should have worn a condoms, but that too is a moot point today.

While the availability and proliferation of projectile weapons within police and law enforcement agencies continues as policy, we are always going to see abuses by individuals. There was some discussion as I recall, about one of the NSW coppers involved in the Roni Levy shooting having consumed illicit drugs prior to the donning of uniform and accoutrements and going out for his shift. This too is going to be an ongoing 'safety' issue - much as it is on mine sites today with substance affected persons making decisions that involve other people's lives.

OSW, you may know my old RSM... Norm Goldspink, who I think also served with 3 RAR and went through the Kapyong stoush? PTSD...a big issue from your days in Korea/SVN & having worked in recent years at Robertson Barracks doing my old job as a civvy contractor, I saw an even bigger problem looming on the horizon for the men & women who have served in the Sand Pit returning with issues unaddressed by the various services. The current rates of suicide are staggering and indeed alarming.

OSW, correction: I should have directed my last question at Is Mise.