The Black lives Matter movement has been spectacularly successful in preventing police from stopping and searching suspicious persons that are black. The result is that while the shootings of black men by police has dropped slightly, the number of black men, women and children dying by gunshot has increased dramatically.

The result from the left wing hysteria is as tragic as it is predictable.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423602/black-lives-matters-agenda-costing-black-lives-michael-barone

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/25/oreilly_how_black_lives_matter_is_causing_increased_crime_murder.html

"The theme of the movie is that there is an epidemic of racist white policemen, gunning down innocent black people. The movie’s message, implicit but unambiguous, is that the police must be restrained from vigorous enforcement of the law. That was the message of the Black Power movement half a century ago, and it is the message of the Black Lives Matter movement today.

Consider the BLM demands. Some are anodyne. Who is against “better training for police officers”? We already have independent (usually elected) prosecutors. The law already “limit(s) the use of force by police.” But the most important BLM demand is the first: “End ‘broken windows’ policing.” The evidence is that this is already happening — at the cost of black lives. Even the New York Times has noticed.

So far this year, murders are up 76 percent in Milwaukee, 60 percent in St. Louis, 56 percent in Baltimore, and 44 percent in Washington, D.C. While murders are up, arrests are down. There is, as Manhattan Institute scholar Heather Mac Donald writes, a “reluctance to act [that] is affecting police departments across the country, as virtually every tool in an officer’s tool chest — from traffic stops to public-order maintenance — is vilified as racist.”

No comment from the left whingers?

I guess solid evidence of the consequences of their politically correct idiocy has silenced them.

Don't be silly Shadow Minister, They are all busy convincing themselves that it must somehow be Trumps fault.

They will be here just as soon as they have done that.

The left whingers are all emotion without reason. If they ever bothered to engage their brains, they might look beyond their noses and think "what are the consequences?"

It is the same fuzzy PC demands that brought us 50 000 illegal immigrants (10 000 of whom are not refugees) 1200+ dead, and who hobbled the US police force leading to a new crime wave in black areas, the victims of which are also mostly black.

I guess when a white policeman shoots a black man he is now committing cultural appropriation.

It is the self-loathing of the Left.

That and the virtue signalling of moral BS artists that is often seen on The Box. Where panels of mindless, self-appointed 'personalities' compete with one another to demonstrate superior moral virtue.

Political Correctness is so broadly and deeply embedded in Oz that few might ever realise when they themselves are self-censoring.

It's in the complete lack of logic in the reasoning of the left whingers. Gonski is a perfect example. The 40% real increase in spending on education has failed, thus the answer must be to spend more. There is no evidence that the extra expenditure has made any difference so far.

What do we have here, a clear case of 'blame the victims', and no one can deny that Negro people in America have not been victims of oppression ever since the day the first of them were dragged in chains from their native Africa to be made slaves to work the white mans plantations. The radical right take the opportunity to post links to sites offering unsubstantiated, if not dodgy statistics on black murders. Implying in some way cops killing innocent unarmed black men prevents others from suffering the same fate. They would describe police actions as positive crime prevention! Can't buy it Shadow.

In the latest outrage an unarmed black motorist Terence Crutcher was shot dead by a white female police officer Betty Shelby while his hands were up. Terence's car had broken down and he was set upon by a hoard of coppers, which resulted in Shelby shooting the man dead in what appears to be cold blood!
Can the raid right put their usual spin on this and show haw it is actually a positive for African Americans to yet again see one of their own shot dead in cold blood by a white copper?

Over to you Shadow.

Paul,

We can always count on you to completely miss the point. Unless you consider the vastly increased deaths of black Americans OK as long as they weren't kill by white policemen.

BLM is not just calling for the incidents to be prosecuted and the guilty punished, but for the police to be banned from random searches etc, which were instrumental in preventing crime and shootings.

The numbers that you are calling dodgy are also cited in the New York times and other respectable left leaning newspapers, and show clearly the increased loss of lives (predominately black) as a result of the BLM protests.

Of course those with an IQ above that of a squirrel were warning of the potential consequences back in the days of the Ferguson riots, and were called racists. It's time for the left whingers to eat humble pie.

What is making the white cops so nervously ready to shoot and
ask questions later around black suspects.

I suspect it is the horrific number of murders by gun, committed by
the blacks themselves that make the white police nervous of being shot when they pull
them over.

The black bloke in that last shooting acted strangely in leaning against the window of his car instead of staying in clear sight with his hands up.

The female police officer from where she was standing had no way of seeing that
the window was wound up.

Black gun rule and murders is the cause of at least some of these black deaths by
white piolice,

If the blacks knew how to behave as decent citizens instead of having a reputation for
murder the police mught be more inclined to feel safer and more trusting around them.

Shadow,

What has precipitated this reaction, all stems from what appears to be the indiscriminate killing of black men by police. The BLM movements aim is to show these killings and the subsequent apparent injustice of a failure to prosecute police will not be tolerated. A balance between what you refer to as "vigorous enforcement of the law" and the rights of the individual is paramount. Unless you like Beach and others of the extreme right support a police state, All you are arguing is give police extreme powers of search, detention and arrest and the crime rate will diminish, of course it will, but a lot of innocent people will suffer as a consequence.

CHERFUL,

Good post.

To add, what is being deliberately missed by the PC stirrers is that it was the deliberate, repeated decisions and actions by the offender that limited the choices and alternatives open to the police in close proximity to him.

There are protocols formed through risk analysis and the learning from actual experience on the ground. The police officer is charged with protecting the public, her colleagues and herself. She and others would very likely have been following the available protocols, step by step.

In Australia, there is concern that the political correctness of senior police hampered them and produced poor outcomes in the Martin Place terrorist siege. Or was it that incredibly, the available protocols were ineffective because they did not relate to a terrorism situation?

Coming back to the (different) US case, while there is footage the evidence is yet to be gathered and analysed as it must be. However, it is already evident (as in the Martin Place incident in Australia) that where the feckless media are concerned, the facts can never be allowed to get in the road of a good story.

Paul,
Once again, what you say is only half the truth.
The perception being spread by the BLM movement is that that there is " indiscriminate killing of black men by police. The BLM movements aim is to show these killings and the subsequent apparent injustice of a failure to prosecute." Unfortunately that is not entirely true, as the BLM movement is demanding that the stop and search regime either at random or of those perceived to be suspicious be stopped.

The reality is that
-Without the stop and search regimes, that were introduced primarily to successfully reduce the levels of violent crime, the rates of violent crime have surged.
-With the proliferation of guns in the US there are roughly 20 000 gun deaths p.a. and more than 50 killings of police on duty p.a. (many times more shot at and wounded) resulting in the requirement for police to assume that anyone they are stopping may be armed, because they frequently are.
-The number of these types of incidents are relatively rare, and occur with white people too (but just don't get the publicity.)
-Black people are between 6-10 times more likely to commit an act of violence than non blacks.

So in a way you are right, there are now many innocent people dying because of the actions by BLM.

In a society that is deeply divided by social injustice, racial hated coupled with a gun mentality, such as the United States, it is no wonder there are so many violent crimes committed by these huge numbers of disadvantaged people. Numerous murders is one manifestation of the terrible injustices that exists in the US. Strong arm police tactics is one simple, relatively low cost method of tacking these disorders, and it is acceptable to societies elite. Strong arm police tactics, which will reduce the crime rate, but it will never destroy the underlying causes of crime, it simply masks the problems.
The rabid right will finger point to the obvious, but will never be willing to offer any worthwhile long terms solutions. What suits them is to pay for a crimnal justice system to deal with the problems as they surface and ensure as far as possible they do not impinge into their world of privilege.
Beach and the like minded, without actually saying it, you appear to support a 'shoot to kill' philosophy by police, after all why employ them if they are not going to carry out punitive action to ensure you and those like you are safe from the menacing and dangerous members in society. To you its all about tougher laws, tougher sanctions and tougher enforcement. Good luck!

Paul,

The rabid left is full of politically correct solutions that actually make the problem worse both in the short term and long term. A wave of violent crime is going to make any high brow politically correct solution impossible, and rather will help perpetuate the cycle of poverty and violence. The methods used while politically correct were reducing the crime rates on a year by year basis, and were beginning to bear fruit.

Roughly 92% of violent crimes against black people are by black people, and recent surge in crime violence is not going to do anything to rectify past injustices.

@Paul1405, Friday, 23 September 2016 9:52:56 AM

Psychological projection.

"Prosecutors in the US city of Tulsa, Oklahoma have filed a first-degree manslaughter charge against the white police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black motorist last week."
Despite the flimsy clap trap from the rabid right, just read the excuses in CHEEFUL"S post, action has been taken, and hopefully justice at least in this case will be served.

I particularly like this line from good old CHEERFUL "If the blacks knew how to behave as decent citizens" A red neck from Alabama could not have said it better. KNOW YOUR PLACE BOY!

And what does Cheerful's racists comment get from another one of the Good Ol' Boys in Beach, a "Good Post CHEERFUL" Yeah! if you like racists comment it is!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-23/tulsa-us-police-officer-charged-with-first-degree-manslaughter/787100

Paul 1405,

So what was the outcome of that 2006 case you were interested in? -The aggressive Ipswich woman who double parked outside a primary school and abused police?

<[Police] union president Gary Wilkinson says after investigating Wednesday's incident, he is satisfied the officers acted appropriately.

"She brought that on herself," he said.

"She was very abusive and very aggressive and, quite frankly, she used language that would make the American sailors who were just in town blush.

"She didn't care about the children with the language she was using and her actions.

"She gave no concerns whatsoever to the children.

"All she had to do was move her vehicle and do what everyone else had done.">

From the report, it does look as though the police had their hands full.

Here we have a member of the rabid right OTB showing just what value he puts on a black life in America, it equates to a Ipswich woman who double parked outside a primary school and abused police in 2006! Maybe if she was black the coppers could have shot her dead and charged her corps with using unseemly language.
Beach,what is the point of that irrelevant ridiculous post about the abusive Ipswich woman? I understand you have a problem with women, often attacking female posters on the forum.
In another typical black shooting in the US, coppers in Charlotte shot dead unarmed black man Keith Scott. In what appears as a police fabrication the coppers claimed Scott was armed. Then the police department refused to release the video and sound recordings of the incident, smacks of yet another attempted cover up!
Beach, will you equate this shooting to some female abusive jay walker in Cooktown in 2004?

Paul,

The fact that the officer was charged is actually proof that the existing system is working.

The BLM mobs outside demanding instant justice and calling for dead cops are essentially lynch mobs.

The fact that the officer was charged is actually proof that the officers are still being charged and ever will be .Amen.

Paul1405, "what is the point of that irrelevant ridiculous post about the abusive Ipswich woman?"

Why ask me when you posted the link? You should be apologising for your ill-mannered diatribe.

Regarding the US shooting, the usual review system, the transparency and accountability of police, is operating as expected. It will be tested in Court. But the provocateurs who are stirring up hatred and division and many would count the Australian Greens here among them, would have already known that.

So the question that remains is whose interests are those activists and stirrers serving? Because it is certainly NOT for the good of the vast majority of Negro-Americans.

Beach I am only human and not god like you, and unlike you I admit to making an error (remember when YOU posted a virus infected link and then said nothing), There will be no apology.

Try this one if you like.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-24/charlotte-shooting-keith-scott-wife-video/7873952

Public pressure might have something to do with the charges, and the establishment can afford to sacrifice one female white copper. plenty more employed do their dirty work. .

Paul1405,

You do make outrageous allegations against those who happen to disagree with you.

If you believe your final remark you really need to review the evidence before you and from independent sources.

Take a break from the green left echo chamber.

Life is simply not like that at all.

You are being used by an elite. -Who are doing very well for themselves indeed, as exemplified by those seat-polishing, self-entitled Greens Senators like the much travelled SHY (costs the taxpayer $millions). They are clever aren't they to be solely about protests and headlines. Meanwhile the leftist soldiers, the 'useful idiots' who believe the moral BS artists, are forgotten and years later are still the same.

I can't defend the police's actions if the victim wasn't carrying a weapon.
The police can't be justified in shooting every person with mental health issues that didn't take their medication and is climbing the walls just because they have a heightened sense of fear in dealing with them.
That's a lack of adequate; or the right training, in my opinion.
Whist the police officer didn't specifically ask to be there (because they were acting on a complaint from the public), the citizen himself needed medical treatment and did not ask to be killed by inexperienced police.
Whilst I'm certainly not saying that people with mental health issues should get a free pass (as they too need to take some responsibility for their own choices that put themselves in that situation) or that police should take a greater risk in the job; I will say that they did willingly choose to apply for the position as police officers and have a responsibility to conduct themselves professionally whilst working with members of the community.

On the other side of the argument, theres absolutely no way I can condone any of these 'peaceful protest' actions.
http://youtu.be/ixgUryfeMXA?t=39m50s

No one is denying that shooting an unarmed man, especially one that has his arms up. However, the real question are:

1 is it endemic
2 What needs to be done about it.

To answer the first question, the statistics indicate that there are nearly 1 000 000 police officers in the USA and roughly 5 000 instances where police have had to discharge their weapons injuring about 2000 people and killing 1000 of which on average 0.5% of which are deemed unlawful and the officers charged of which 1/4 are convicted.

Considering murder rate in Australia is about 20 per 1000 000 p.a., and the number of convictions (mostly for manslaughter) of Cops in the US at between 1 to 5 is a fraction of this.

To answer the second question, the answer is to ensure that:
a) Officers are correctly trained,
b) That the use of car and body cameras are used to record instances for training /evidence,
c) That the public is trained on what to do when asked by police.

What not to do is hobble the police force, that has overseen a steady reduction in homicide deaths over the last 3 decades (to a still high 2500), such that the murders increase dramatically.

What America is looking at is an upsurge in murders of 1000+ p.a. in order to reduce unlawful killings by about 5.

The actions of the police are controlled through policies, protocols and close on-the-spot monitoring, with immediate review after any incident. Ultimately, accountability is ensured through the legislature.

However, where activists and the shadowy outfits that sponsor them (such as the highly secretive Soros corporation) are concerned, there are no such controls, no accountability and constant denial.

shadow minister
I was wondering where you get your statistics for this post.
For instance the number of police shootings deemed unlawful, and the number convicted.

And while I am posting, perhaps you could tell me why you think it is necessary for the many US police forces to have accesses to military equipment like sound cannons.Also why it is ok for state troopers in some states to be able to take money off your debit card because they think you might use the money to buy drugs.
Chris

onthebeach,

So your saying that the police are doing a fine job in very difficult situations. Does that mean that when a black man is shot in the back while running away, it is his fault?

Or that a black man sitting in his car with his hands up tells the officer that he is carrying a gun legally that it is ok for the cop to kill him.

Or a black man sitting in the road with his hands up is shot in the leg, its ok. When the cop was asked by the man why he shot him, the answer was I don't know.

It is my considered opinion that the police in the US are out of control and it is high time all police fire arm discharges should be reviewed by people not connected to the police force.

So before you start vilifying me because I have a different opinion to you and others on this thread , would it not make more sense to start talking about some solutions rather than just ridiculing some one who has a different point of view.

And just for the record I don't get any money from George Soros.

Chris

Lefty,

I got the statistics from various US federal and state government websites, some of which I have had to knit together, but as I said, my stats are approximate, (for example some years the prosecutions hit 15, but 5 is an average over 3 decades) but if you have something better please let me know.

Secondly I never commented on the equipment US police are accessing, but given the topic I would encourage the use on non lethal weapons.

As for cops debiting bank cards I had no idea it was occurring, nor have you supplied any context.

Finally, are you content to punish the guilty police that abuse their power, or do you see the need to hobble the police force further and allow the crime rate to soar?

LEFTY ONE, Monday, 26 September 2016 1:12:39 PM

Those are your straw man fallacies, you handle them.

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent"