Reading an article by a prominent Australian commentator, I was stunned to read his opinion that Australia's major parties are probably the "most elite", "undemocratic" and "authoritarian" in the Western world.

Does this seem accurate? I know they are not much chop, but have we let them fool us to that extent?

I suppose the Labor Party's insistence that we are not fit to have a vote on SSM points that way, and the current PM doesn't listen to anyone. But is this really the sort of regime so described that we live under?

What do you think 18c is all about?

Certainly not free speech or democracy. The left are all about the freedom to say what they approve.

Shadow, 18C is about stopping hate speech, while 18D, which provides exceptions to 18C, is about preserving our free speech.

If politicians want public support for changes to 18C, all they need to do is provide an example of something good that would actually be banned under 18C (not just seemingly banned by 18C but actually allowed because of 18D).

So far, nobody has.

SM,

I know what 18C is all about. Any other examples?

Aidan,

Your usual support for totalitarianism, I see. No support or reasons for change. Get you head out of the sand.

' Shadow, 18C is about stopping hate speech, ' well Aiden it certainly hasn't stopped the ignorant left from spitting out hate on a regular timeframe.

Turnbullitis disease is bad enough, but quietly and secretly, the left has been sneaking in cultural Marxism for the last 3 decades or more, and that's where the real totalitarianism lurks. Turnbull won't be around for ever, and the Coaltion has a chance to get back to its roots. But Marxism is much more insidious once it takes hold. They are telling us that the 'old ways' no longer work, but it is their efforts over the last 30 years, that have already replaced the old ways, that are the problem.

Reading an article by a prominent Australian commentator, I was stunned to read his opinion that Australia's major parties are probably the "most elite", "undemocratic" and "authoritarian" in the Western world.

Does this seem accurate?

YES, but the USA is #1 leader of the pack who is miles in front on that score.

But I am sure with your help here on the IPA ttbn there's still a chance we can beat the USA -- hands down.

All we need is more gullible non-thinking unintelligent uninformed fools like you ttbn being allowed a Vote and continue to destroy public discourse in Australia.

Keep at it mate.

I'm not sure we ever had it ttbn.

I've shared my thoughts on democracy before but I'm happy to repeat it.

There needs to be a balance of power between 'us' and 'them'.
If they make the rules for us, then we should make the rules for them.
We need to build a prison, to put them in when they do the wrong thing.
They need to keep their election promises and not lie.

They need to put Australia first every time, not sell us out to globalist agendas or foreign money or for their own aspirations after domestic politics.

I was just talking with someone earlier today about how Americanised we are now.
I'm not sure there's much difference anymore, and it's concerning.

All things told I think the situation is dire.
The country we once knew is slowly being pulled out from under us.

We honestly don't have leaders worth a crap and we don't have any kind of plan.
If we did surely something would've shone through.

But take a look at the bigger picture - Its the same everywhere.
Name a western country where the people actually like their leaders and think they are doing a good job.
There's no such thing is there and you have to ask why the hell is that?
It can't be a coincidence.

We're all being managed more than what we think; steered in a direction someone else wants us to go.
Played for the fools that the majority are; and THAT'S OUR DEMOCRACY.

But don't worry there's a new mosque coming to a neighbourhood near you.

No, ttbn, I don't support totalitarianism. But the right of free speech is not absolute and under the current there are genuine threats to freedom of the press, and people are prosecuted for revealing information that's clearly in the public interest. Those are in much more urgent need of fixing than 18C.

As far as I can see, none of the things that make free speech so important are banned by 18C – some may seem to be when considered in isolation, but 18D makes it clear that 18C does not extend to those. If a counterexample exists, show me and I may well change my views on this topic. But I will not be swayed by empty rhetoric about free speech that ignores the reasons for its importance.

___________________________________________________________________________________

runner, it hasn't stopped the ignorant right from spitting out hate on a regular timeframe either. It only covers what's said on the basis of race, and even there it's quite narrowly focussed.

Aidan,

18c is purportedly about stopping hate speech, but actually goes much further, criminalising the far more subjective "offensive" comments as can be seen in the worst case of abuse of process Australia has seen in decades in Queensland where a gold digger is trying to extort $250 000 from students and the University on some of the most flimsy examples of "offense" I have ever seen.

Can you put your hand on your heart and say that this is OK? If not then 18c has to be modified.

The written comments were racist in nature when the room was for obviously dis-advantaged people having assistance. A room for skill-learning without problems of hearing such comments. There are other rooms for particular groups ( women , graduates ) which probably exclude other people without any fuss. Who would object to spending funds on bicycle lanes only for bikes?
Free speech ?

Slander - the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
Libel - a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

Assault .. attempts or threatens to apply force of any kind to the person of another without the other person's consent,

Spitting upon another person. Spitting is treated as a fairly serious form of the offence.

Re: s 18 c. From what I read of the 'ACT' it seems to relate primarily to the meaning of "person" and the words: "...been an immigrant" and more specifically, the meaning of: "public place".

Once the meanings of these are amended/changed within the act the whole section either loses any punch or it becomes a monster with ramifications reaching into other aspects of our life in "public".

The IPA has interesting results - see: http://freedomwatch.ipa.org.au/

at: Essential polling: strong support for changing section 18C
by Morgan Begg on September 14, 2016 in Freedom of speech.

Meanwhile back in the Top End, our democratic 'Sausage Sizzles' have been banned within 100 metres of an official polling place. As they sang years ago: "It's a long way to the shop if you wanna sausage roll..."

nicknamenick,

Actually the computer room that the students were kicked out of had no signage whatsoever that it was for aboriginal students and was unoccupied.

The supposedly racist comments cited include:

“Just got kicked out of the unsigned ­indigenous computer room. QUT stopping segregation with segregation?”

These are so innocuous that 18d should have had the case chucked out as QUT did, but then the students are still facing a very costly criminal trial.

Next we see another brilliant example of "democracy" with:

"A ferocious campaign against Christian groups planning to meet on same-sex marriage has forced them to cancel the event at a major hotel next week, amid claims of physical threats from marriage-equality advocates.

The Accor Hotels group confirmed late yesterday that the function had been abandoned after a social media storm triggered phone calls that “rattled” employees and left the company concerned about the safety of staff and guests."

The left whingers are using text book fascist tactics.

Aidan,

You obviously do support totalitariansim. You are a totalitarian, and there is no point in denying it.

Under the "current" what?

Your ridiculous claim that free speech is "not absolute" proves your totalitarianism. In a free society, freedom of speech is, and must, be absolute. Your totalitarian Section 18C is the thing stopping that freedom, going a long way to proving that that both Australian major political parties, plus the Greens, and the Nick Xenophon group, are the most elitist and totalitarian in the Western world.

Albie,

So, no snags within 100 metres, but you still have to put up having how to vote propaganda in your face as voters are too stupid to have made up there minds before they arrived, or that they will suddenly change their minds because some daggy hack shoves a bit of paper at them?

Shadow Minister
The lack of sign was irrelevant and there's no problem with being there, they were asked to leave and did.
The quoted comment was also OK and the uni just pointed out that it resulted in other responses. Those also were not offences under the Act except for one , still in the court it seems. The Act is not an automated system, judges still use common sense ..well , legal sense..
The 100 metre law. It would be legal for volunteers to stand next to your voting booth with a bull-horn shouting "Vote Malcolm or you're a poofda wog n-g- bludging f- priest".

Nick,

The problem is that the students now face a full federal criminal trial that requires representation by Barristers that cost $400/hr or more, with no legal aid and no refund of costs which could leave the students with $100 000s of debt even if the case is thrown out of court, whereas the gold digger who has prior records of frivolous lawsuits does not have to stump up one cent.

The comment in my previous post is the single comment that one student is facing court for even after the case was dismissed by the university.

Yes they do seem to be up for a lot of costs . And the lady didn't have to look up the facebook page which didn't name anyone , it seems.
The crazy thing is that similar comments are made in this blog and if I type them then my grocery bill will shrink... I hereby reject all comments in the following website.
Cindy Prior, Hedley Thomas - News - Morning Mail
morningmail.org/cindy-prior-hedley-thomas/

From what I have been reading, the Whitlam govt threw the constitution under a bus in 1975.

Look up Sue Maynes work. e.g: We the people have NEVER voted at referendum to;

approve the increase of power of any body or govt agency outside of the Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia,

hand over our ‘power’ to international bodies and corporations

step out of the protection of the Commonwealth Constitution.

be coerced to any legal action in anything but common law.

be manipulated into agreeing to any commercial activity that gives an assumed power to a foreign jurisdiction.

be governed by any body that is not completely “of” and working completely within, the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia.

be bound to Private Law agreements we did not even know existed!

Read this document "Why This Corporate Government is Not Our Government" at this address:

http://peopleofthecommonwealth.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/why-this-corporate-government-is-not.html

About this indigenous computer room case.
I think this was a case just waiting to happen and the non-indigenous students who complained may have been seen as a cash settlement just waiting to walk through the door, from the viewpoint of Cindy Prior who likely knew this and was probably planning to do exactly what she did as soon as someone did complain publicly.
I wouldn't even be surprised if she acted in a stand-offish way in a hope that a complaint on facebook would be publicly made so that she could bring forward discrimination lawsuits.

This is how I read the situation.

I wonder if she kicked people out before and knew that she could get bundle of money if she played it right?

I don't think the non-indigenous students criticism was unreasonable.
And therefore I think the lawsuit is frivolous.

AC,

I think that most of the frivolity lies with Triggs and the HRC for taking on the case. Apart that, yes, the aboriginal industry is certainly open for profit.