"steel, I don't understand your view on the hordes of farmers.

What threats do farmers pose?"

i've mentioned it before in a similar topic, but it's essentially the asinine situation of stealing *all* water from the system in a place that is extremely dry and in a dire situation. Efficient management of a finite resource seems the only intelligent course of action. Yet the prevailing idea is, that if water exists somewhere, it must be used all up and not managed. Decades of mismanagement by states, allowing thousands of farmers to hoover the river systems dry. It just doesn't make any sense at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_sea

"Aren't you happy to have the cleanest, safest and arguably the cheapest food right here in Australia."
Yes, but it's not entirely "clean". I believe that a certain amount of farmers overspray above health regulations and remain unpunished, despite their clear contempt for their fellow Australians and their families, who consume the produce.

"Not impressed that agriculture provides 20% of our export income?"
Apparently it used to be 80%, before the 1950s. All I'm saying is the farming situation is like the gold rush. If there is even a single drop of water left in a once glorius river, then it seems inevitable that it would be taken.

“It has to be saved from the hordes of farmers first.”

Crikey Steel, you know how to win friends and influence people!!

Or should that be; how to win enemies and make yourself seem like a complete fool!

Let’s work with farmers to fix the chronic water over-allocation problems along the Darling and elsewhere. For goodness sake, let’s not just outrightly alienate whole large sections of society.

[see the most irrational and vitriolic post ever put on this forum http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=728#13125]

"Crikey Steel, you know how to win friends and influence people!!
Or should that be; how to win enemies and make yourself seem like a complete fool!
Let’s work with farmers to fix the chronic water over-allocation problems along the Darling and elsewhere. For goodness sake, let’s not just outrightly alienate whole large sections of society."

I think they are a little tougher than you give them credit for.

One point that is missed in the whole irrigation/dry river debate is flow. Irrigators can only take water from the river when there is flow. Certainly on a number of rivers particularly in the southern areas of NSW and in Vic, the flow is regulated by dams, with farmers ordering water, then having it released to demand (within reason). In the main river that feeds the Darling, the Barwon, the flow is unregulated. That is, it is not release-controlled by a dam. So irrigators on the Barwon (and I dare say those on the Darling) can only pump when natural rivers flows occur, AND the water level is above the prescribed level for pumping. If these farmers DIDNT take the water at this point, it would flow all the way to the sea at the end of the Murray, with no use being made of it at all (at the river levels where pumping is allowed, there is more than enough lfow to meet the needs of the towns downstream AND maintain environmental flow). The situation particularly on these unregulated rivers is not as dire as some have made out.

On the Murray system, the Snowy River scheme was put in place to help ensure that water was available for irrigation. If the Snowy scheme was not in place the Murray would have run dry already, and none of it would have been the fault of the irrigators (who again can only access water if there is sufficient water there to be accessed). Supply to towns and the the environmental flows comes first.

"Efficient management of a finite resource seems the only intelligent course of action. "

Hang on whoah, don't blame farmers for the bad management of
city slickers. Farmers simply comply with the law. Why are you
overpaid city slickers so hopeless at managing that finite
resource or anything else for that matter? Too many expenses paid lunches with too much wine
perhaps?

it comes from letting pollies run our lives, yabby. "give us water licenses, we vote for you.- it's a deal." as usual, the public isn't present, doesn't get a voice.

parliament is a brokerage of power, buying special interest support with public resources. i don't despise the people who do this, it's a good living. the people who let them do this, on the other hand, seem pitiful, at best.