Catholic schools are now subsidised from the public purse. The Catholic Church gets its market share and does not seem worried about the chaplaincy. Catholic schools are for a Catholic education. Public schools are not for education or indoctrination in any particular religion although courses in comparative religion can be acceptable. Chaplains and religious indoctrination do not belong in public schools.

Homophobic means more than being against same-sex marriage. It means regarding homosexuals as sinners, as something less than human and as a group it is legitimate to persecute. However, one can be against same-sex marriage and not be homophobic. The view of both SU and AC is to regard homosexuality as a sin to be eradicated and condemned. There have been suicides among teenagers due to difficulty in dealing with an uncertain sexual identity. Although the Catholic Church does not and is unlikely to conduct same-sex marriage Pope Francis recognises that homosexuals are human beings, is against their persecution and accepts their humanity.

In my opinion the chaplains do not consider bullying of LGBT children a problem, and some might even consider their suicide as eliminating a problem.

Dear onthebeach,

I looked up Bill Meuhlenburg’s spiel and did not find it persuasive. He wrote: “The safe Schools Coalition is not about anti-bullying. If it were, it would talk about the main cases of bullying: those who pick on those who are too tall, too short, too fat, too skinny, too ugly, too pretty, too smart, too dumb, etc. But instead it is all about one thing only: the promotion of homosexuality and related sexualities.”

Muehlenberg falsely equates the acceptance of homosexuals with the promotion of homosexuality. Bullying of young people of uncertain sexuality is a prominent cause of their distress and even suicide. My oldest son was bullied in the first grade because he was the only blond in his class. It was unpleasant, but he was able to deal with it himself. All bullying is not a worry. An anti-bullying program that concentrates on a prominent cause of bullying is legitimate.

Dear Joe,

If a child is sent to a sectarian school one can expect that the child will receive indoctrination in the religion of the group supporting such a school. In my opinion it would be an inadmissible infringement of freedom to close those institutions although I think they should not be publically funded.

From http://billmuehlenberg.com/2016/03/17/seven-things-you-must-know-about-the-safe-schools-program/

”At a conference on Marxism last year in Melbourne she bragged about how she developed the SSC for the express purpose of implementing Marxism in the classroom. She has repeatedly spoken about how she wants to use the school system to agitate for Marxist economic and social policy. Said Ward:

To smooth the operation of capitalism the ruling class has benefited, and continues to benefit, from oppressing our bodies, our relationships, sexuality and gender identities alongside sexism, homophobia and transphobia. Both serve to break the spirits of ordinary people, to consume our thoughts, to make us accept the status quo and for us to keep living or aspiring to live, or feel like we should live, in small social units and families where we must reproduce and take responsibility for those people in those units.

And again: “Apart from social stigma and discrimination, almost every single structure in society is set up to accommodate only two possible genders, male or female. Everything from the toilets we use, the school uniforms, changing rooms, all official documents, passports, the process is that you go through airports, everything is divided into these two limited gender options.””

Ward blames the ills of the world on capitalism as Marxists do. She neglects the fact that the Marxist tyrannies were puritanical and most unforgiving of non-heterosexual relationships. The rigid dichotomy between male and female and their relationships stems from the Abrahamic religions not capitalism. Pre-Christian Athens accepted same sex relations as a matter of course as evidenced in the Platonic dialogues. However, her insight into the rigid sexual dichotomy forced on a species whose members have a great degree of sexual diversity is valid.

Dear Joe,

Here you go mate;

“The main conclusion of this paper is that income inequality, measured by the Gini index, has a significant and positive effect on the incidence of crime.”
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DEC/Resources/Crime%26Inequality.pdf

Dear davidf,

These are taken from the Communist Manifesto 1848;

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
 
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
 
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
 
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
 
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
 
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
 
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
 
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

They are what were regarded as essential to bring about a communist state.

What has always intrigued me was how rigidly the Kibbutz movement in Israel adopted and practiced all of these measures, possibly with the exception of point 4.

I'm wondering if you regard the movement was an example of Marxism not ultimately sliding toward totalitarianism? Also there was evidently a deep infatuation of many Jewish intellectuals with Marx. Do you believe there are cultural influences that contributed?

Dear david f,

Your arguments about “indoctrination” (a word for teaching things, e.g. culture dependent models of reality and skills the person who uses the word does not approve of ?) would apply to, well, teaching e.g. under the subject of Religious Education. However, I read in https://www.suqld.org.au/chaplaincy that they provide a kind of service for students who seek a Christian COUNSELLING, not teaching: “QLD chaplains, or 'chappies', provide spiritual and emotional support to school communities. They are in the prevention and support business: helping students find a better way to deal with issues ranging from family breakdown and loneliness …”

Of course the Chaplains' counselling should not be forced on children from non-Christian families, and (if the resources allow for it), there should also be a Muslim counsellor, an atheist (or no-religion) counsellor. I could even see them cooperating, since they all are supposed to be (semi-)professional psychologists.

If this is not so, or if they are not only in the “prevention and support business: helping students find a better way to deal with issues“ but also in the proselytising business to students whose home background is not Christian - you know the situation better than I - then one should ask to have the situation remedied not to ban counselling at schools to students who (or whose parents) prefer a Christian approach. The same for other worldview backgrounds.

You can teach a student mathematics and your worldview does not come into it at all. This is hardly the case with counselling young people, although many (including both Christians and atheists) pretend so, since in their mind their worldview is, of course, the right one.
ctd

ctd
Financial government support for Catholic schools is a different matter. As I wrote elsewhere to Yuyutsu, it is based on perceived mutual benefits. Should the Government come to the conclusion that this support is not for the good of the general public (that the Parliament is supposed to represent and the Government serve) - as maintained, for instance, by a number of debaters also here - then it will cease. Activists on both sides of the divide will try to influence the Government decision.

>>Pope Francis recognises that homosexuals are human beings, is against their persecution and accepts their humanity.<<

I agree but doubt that he is the only Christian with this rather obvious attitude. As I wrote, Christians were not against the proletariat but against the IDEOLOGY built on the dictatorship of proletariat. The Catholic Church is not against homosexuals - this she repeats ad nauseam - but used to put a rather high demand on the Catholics among them, compulsory lifelong celibacy, which the present Pope is finding a way around (c.f. his recent “exhortation” Amoris Laetitia). The Catholic and other Churches are against the (consequences of the) IDEOLOGY of gender fluidity.

>>It means regarding homosexuals as sinners, as something less than human and as a group it is legitimate to persecute.<<

As I understand it, for an atheist being a sinner is meaningless, and as for Christians even the Pope calls himself a sinner. You would have to quote which twenty-first century Christian of any influence said that homosexuals are “less than human and as a group it is legitimate to persecute”.

>>In my opinion the chaplains do not consider bullying of LGBT children a problem, and some might even consider their suicide as eliminating a problem.<<

That is a very strong accusation, and if true, the chaplain who pronounced such things should be immediately dismissed and punished for (promoting) abuse of children

Dear George,

The chaplaincy program and homophobia:

http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/national/chaplaincy-program-to-fund-groups-with-links-to-homophobia-13835.html

“Darren McMahon is the Director and Presenter of Your Dream Incorporated in Sydney and runs chaplaincy programs through NSW, and has significant ties to Hillsong Church.

Hillsong Church has had a controversial history with the gay community regarding their involvement with the now dismantled Mercy Ministries and the recently abolished Living Waters Australia, which ran ex-gay and conversion camps."

“LGBTI activists are also questioning the qualifications of chaplaincy workers in dealing with same-sex attracted youth. It is understood that the training can be as little as a five-day intensive course in ‘Chaplaincy Essentials’ and is all that is required by some chaplain organisations."

"Studies on LGBTI youth have consistently shown that they have higher rates of suicide and depression than their heterosexual counterparts and Jacqui Tomlins, a founding member of the Australian Equality Party and parent of three, told MCV she was appalled at the allocation of funds to the Chaplaincy Program."

“Young people – especially those who might be questioning their sexuality or sexual identity, need access to good, non-judgemental counsellors who can provide advice and guidance that is not based on any religious foundation.”

[Not only does the government fund chaplains, but it only does not fund non-religious counsellors.]

“The funding is a continuation of the Chaplaincy Scheme introduced by John Howard, but the Abbott Government has changed back the conditions to prevent School Principals from being able to elect a secular student welfare worker instead of a chaplain.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-05/school-chaplain-posts-homophobic-comment-on-facebook/5650640

Chaplains in prisons and the army serve people who are away from their sources of spiritual comfort. Public school students live at home, and their parents can see to it that they receive what religious connection they desire. Since they are living at home they are part of a community and can access the local church or other religious organisation. Separation of religion and state demands that public schools be religiously neutral. That means to me that neither religious indoctrination nor chaplains belong in the public schools.

We differ.