It’s reported today that Di Natale did not keep timesheets for the work done by his nannies, who were earning $3.75 an hour cash for a 40 hour week.

For someone that is supposedly is spruiking for the underdog, he is looking increasingly like a privileged individual who relies on cut priced labour to run his family.

Hypocrisy thy name is Greens.

Yes, another 'do as I say, not as I doo' scenario hey.

So here we have the labior green alliance running for office, one saying he wont rest until penalty rates are protected by law, the other saying pre the election campaign that he will accept the FWC's findings, yet wont commit to that statement now.

It is little wonder there are so many on the fence this election, including myself.

That's absolutely disgusting and this guy should be in jail for this.
Working families pay far in excess of this, and he gets a nanny 40hrs a week for 150 bucks gross?

HOW CAN THIS NOT BE ILLEGAL?

Where can I get employees at $3.75 an hour?

Imagine it was Abbott. Don't you love the sanctimonious jettsetting Greens. Many live in leafy supurbs having sucked on public purse for years in quasi Government jobs. Yep they have dumbed down 10% of the population by infiltrating unis and the school system.

Hiring AU pairs, for $150 / wk is about right. They live in and are fed. Usually 6 or 12 months at a time from overseas. It's another way of having a working holiday. Usually hired as carers, nannies, drivers and cooks.

Poirot

The main cause of all the refugees and wars in these countris is not so much
caused by American bombs as tribal hatreds and warlords stealing women, territory
and resources. Boko Harem to name one.

The male ignorance and dominance that doesnt allow women control over their own wombs so they end up with a10kids to feed, and then think Australia and Western countries should bail them out and feed the resultl of their stupidity with 7billion people on earth and rising.

I know the African fellow of which you speak, I saw his talk on TV and I did admire the way he worked and studied to become a lawyer, but thats where my admiration ended, because what did he do with his lawyer abilities,
He promptly became a lawyer trying to fight to bring more refugees in here.

In other words he is now throwing his weight around trying to bring as many of his tribe here as he can. He has not become a lawyer to in anyway serve Australia.
only other tribes from overseas, particularly Africans I'm sure.

70% of Australians were against the mass immigration that was allowed bigtime with the Hawke givernment and successiv governments but those governments went ahead and did it anyway. So it was hardly a democratic decision based on the will of the Australian people. There shouldnt be any surprise now at the back lash coming from people who never were allowed a referendum on it in the first place

Then the idiots bigtiming themselves n the United Nations signed that refugee agreement, again an undemocratic decision, one which I shouok my head at, and thought I dont want them signing that in my name. Things were quiet then no boats at all,and the twits couldnt see the flood and big problem that was bound to come their way.
Until it happened.

let the idiot male leaders in these troubled countries, figure out why their people are so bloody, miserable, full of hatred and always at each others throats. Not our problem.

looks like Ive posted the above post to the wrong debate.
The dratted screen dropped out on me, looks like I reloaded the wrong page back
bloody technology

CHERFUL,

You have something worth saying and I will look for it elsewhere. But FFS could you drop that (always)over-done, anti-male *bleep* that comes across as an obsession?

Hi Paul,

You may be right: di Natale is being unfairly and dreadfully persecuted.

After all, if we take accommodation into account, we should remember that $ 100-150 a night is cheap these days for caravan parks, let alone luxury hotels. So the au pair is effectively receiving (7 x $ 150) right there. That's $ 1050 weekly income that all the anti-Greens completely ignore. But that's not all.

And then there's food: it's hard to find a decent meal at a good restaurant for less than $ 40. So if we take into account 7 x 3 x $ 40 = $ 840 for food alone, that income-equivalent amount is now totalling $ 1890 just there. And we haven't built in various other expenses that the au pair would run up.

So just there, that au pair is effectively on a weekly income of at least $ 2040, of which she has $ 150 to do with as she pleases. Where else in the Third world - say, Saudi Arabia - would an au pair get that sort of weekly income ? Clearly, many people on OLO are just running dogs of the Murdoch gutter press, out to destroy the integrity of di Natale any way they can. Shame on you.

Joe

Why the surprise? The greens have always been hypocrites.

"It’s reported today that Di Natale did not keep timesheets for the work done by his nannies.."

Sounds like they were on duty 24/7/365. A day off every Leap Year but get the kids ready and fed, cut lunches too before you go out the door, mind.

More lies from the pack of liars that support the lying liars party.

Hi Mikk,

I wouldn't be so hard on him: remember also that, effectively, that au pair isn't just getting the use of the equivalent of more than two grand a week but, if she paid tax, her annual income would be around $ 140,000-150,000.

So Senator di Natale is actually saving her paying close to fifty grand a year in tax. But does anybody realise his generosity ? No. How's that for modesty, honesty and integrity ?

Joe

What the AU pair gets in hand is not known as wages it is known as pocket money. The going rate is recommended to be $150. This arrangement is in most countries around the world, with differing recommended pocket money.

Stringent rules apply to sponsor an au pair. They have to have a private room, Internet access. Sponsors are members of the scheme and sizable security deposits are made to the scheme.

They can also have more than one person to care for or cook for in different locations.

If you wanted an au pair to help out around the place you would also require substantial finances to qualify as a sponsor.

Loudmouth,
What about Fringe Benefits Tax?

I had a position as property manager and that included non cash benefits such as a vehicle, fuel, house and so on. The employer is responsible for FBT.

I am not up to date now about FBT, but someone like Butch is likely to be. He is likely to pay FBT on the meat his employees take home from his shop.

579,

$150 for 40hrs is not the going rate, what I have seen is closer to $250 for 30hrs a week plus accommodation, meals, internet and TV, and access to transportation.

Clearly Dinner Tally is happy to screw his employees and complain about others that are paying much more. What a hypocrite.

Dear Shadow Minister,

If this was not an election year - would these "attacks"
even be taking place?

Most people are sick and tired of the way politics has
been functioning of late. Instead of coming up with
policies and solutions the method seems to be -
attack and try to destroy your opponent. Does that make
anybody a better person? I'm getting a different
message from the people I speak to.

How many politicians are really innocent of not taking
advantage of opportunities presented in their positions
of power. Take all the past scandals of travel allowance
abuses by members of all parties in high positions where
they charged their fellow pollies to stay at houses that
they owned in Canberra. What about helicopter rides to
fund raisers. What about attendance at private weddings,
and other functions, overseas holiday trips, and so it
goes.

Given the opportunities there will always be somebody who
will abuse the opportunity no matter what the political
persuasion.

There does not appear to be anything wrong with what Mr
Di Natale was doing. He provided housing, food, access to
transport, spending money, in an agreed arrangement with
the individuals for their 25 hours a week of work.
Based on moneytary value it is estimated to be $450-$550
dollar value for 25 hours of work which amounts to roughly
$16 to $20 dollars an hour. That's more than some people
get working in hospitality and retail.

It seems that being an election year - some cheer-leaders
of parties will attack anybody on the opposing side to score
brownie points. But people are seeing through these attempts
and are no longer listening.

Hi SM,

Paul is half-right that in countries like Saudi Arabia, servants, au pairs and the like might get a room, a whole room to themselves, as well as internet access - but be paid less than $ 150 a week.

Di Natale is clearly generous in paying that much and, by extension, this shows how generous, kind, well-meaning - as well as supremely well-educated and with the interests of a better world at heart - the Greens are, over the capitalist-lickspittles of the other major parties.

How am I doing, Paul ?

Dearest Foxy,

You note:

"There does not appear to be anything wrong with what Mr
Di Natale was doing. He provided housing, food, access to
transport, spending money, in an agreed arrangement with
the individuals for their 25 hours a week of work.
Based on monetary value it is estimated to be $450-$550
dollar value for 25 hours of work which amounts to roughly
$16 to $20 dollars an hour. That's more than some people
get working in hospitality and retail."

Your conservative costing for the au pair's housing (an entire room), food and access to transport which total around $ 350. Yes, that would mean, let's say, $ 150 per week for a room, $ 150 for food (which, presumably, the au pair would prepare for herself at her leisure), and a bit left over for access to transport, perhaps getting dropped off at the nearest bus-stop. That's probably an under-estimate of total expenditure in lieu of actual cash paid out by the generosity of Dr. di Natale.

I don't see what the problem is: clearly the au pair gets paid less than the tax threshold, so she doesn't have to pay tax - clearly a bonus ! No paper-work to bother her.

Anyway, there would probably be plenty of long-term unemployed who would jump at the chance of room and board, and $ 150 a week, for merely doing a bit of work around the house, looking after the kids, cleaning, answering the phone, etc. Sweet !

So I wish the muck-rakers would get off Dr. di Natale's back. It can't be easy on a Senator's salary, maintaining a farm and vineyard, perhaps a bit of medical practitioning as well. Imagine the tax he would have to pay, the paper-work compared to that au pair's. And he probably wouldn't even get a tax cut, which makes his position very similar to Duncan's.

Love,

Joe

Greens now have a new hero. The young sheila (sort of) that spat in the face of the Councilor in Sydney. NO doubt it will be between her and the hero from Storrar who will take over from Richard. The more disgusting the behaviour the bigger hero the regressives will make of them. No doubt the abc will book a spot for her on Q&A giving her the usual applause for degenerates.

Foxy,

There are 2 issues here:

1 The Au pair was paid $150 for 40hrs work not $450 for 25hrs. Even given that au pair rates take accommodation into account, this is about 1/2 the going rate.

2 Given that Dinner Tally is the leader of the greens who supposedly championing minimum rates of pay and worker's rights, he appears quite happy to abandon his principles when it comes to working for him.

Hi SM,

You suggest that Senator di Natale " .... appears quite happy to abandon his principles when it comes to working for him."

I suggest that he may well have been quite unhappy, or at least a little bit unhappy, about "abandoning his principles." After all, the Greens are very strong on principles. For all we know, he might have offered that au pair much higher cash wages, closer to the standard award rates, but she knocked it back. And let's not forget that she's allowed to use the bathroom, and maybe even the TV room and the verandah. You wouldn't get that at every Backpackers'.

Just because Dr. di Natale pays only a fifth or less in cash wages doesn't mean that that au pair didn't get far more out of the experience - spiritual inspiration, for instance. You won't get much of that from the Tweedles.

Joe

and who opposed paying (giving) people living in outback communities food instead of money? I wonder!

There are two types of au pairs. One is supplied by the au pair organisation. The other are freelance AU pair. The freelance command a living wage as per award.

The organisation that you have to be a member of set the minimum pocket money, and your guarantees make sure minimum work standards are observed.

DiNat did nothing wrong. There would be thousands here at any given time.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I still maintain that I wish our politicians
did not stoop to personal attacks on each
other but focused on policies and problem
solving instead, and talk specifically about
why we should vote for them instead of their
opposition. In other words - focus on what
they have to offer instead of what's wrong
with the other guy.

It would be a refreshing change.

Hi 579,

You're right, there are probably many other au pairs in Australia, for example governesses on remote cattle stations owned by wealthy pastoralists, illegals who work on wealthy horticulturalists' blocks, who get less cash to blow than Dr. di Natale's. Perhaps other au pairs working for inner-city professionals.

Why don't the gutter-journalists drop this minor offence and move onto other issues ? Clearly, they're all anti-Green.

Joe

Dearest Foxy,

Yes, just what I wrote ! " .... focus on what they have to offer instead of what's wrong with the other guy." How do we know Labor and Coalition politicians are paying even less than the Greens for their servants ? Where's the evidence that they're paying more ?

Let's put this behind us and get on with policies and principles.

Cheers,

Joe

Part of the statement by Richard Di Natale

"We went to a specialist employment agency to get some advice on pay rates and based on that advice we offered a package of close to $500 for 25 hours a week including rent, meals and sundries. What the newspaper did, was fail to take into account accommodation, meals and sundries. We had a really positive experience with au pairs, and were rigorous in making sure that we did the right thing by them. That’s why this story is so disappointing."

The Greens are putting the fear into some, so an unfounded smear campaign by the rabid right is to be expected. The whole episode seems to have fizzed out. Bad luck Shadow, try as you may, another dud beat up.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for clearing all that up. Yes, the equivalent of $ 500 per week is probably generous, considering how little work some au pairs would have to do. After all, she would get a room, meals, and on top of that $ 150 spending money, and, either way, not even have to pay income tax.

And after all, that au pair is probably single, she doesn't have kids to support, or any costs except for herself. So the equivalent of $ 500 per week, or an annual income of $ 26,000, is probably quite sufficient, she should think herself lucky.

Cheers,

Joe

Paul,

Dinner Tally should consult to 7-11 on how to invent excuses for underpaying students.

The excuse that the au pairs only worked short hours is highly unlikely given the nature of the work, and Dinner Tally's "inability" to produce timesheets sounds like something from 7-11's playbook.

The story is far more valid than most of the beat ups you post.

SM is scrounging around in the cellar to find something that does not exist.

Hi 579,

Thanks for that suggestion - to put my next au pair down in the cellar, it's been lying unused for twenty-odd years now. She'll have to clean it out first - ha ha (joke), once we get around to repairing the sewer pipes that run across the ceiling. Getting domestic labour is a never-ending series of expenses, isn't it ?

Seriously, we should look after our servant class - good help is so hard to find these days. The bogan class has lost all of those valuable arts, in their crass pursuit of ever-more consumer goods: where is their sense of decades of devoted service like it used to be in the old days ?

Joe

Shadow,
Did any of Di Natale's au pairs allege underpayment? Or that they were required to work longer than agreed?

If so, do you have a link?
If not, why are you making baseless accusations?

Hi Aidan,

You're right, why does anybody think that au pairs work a full seven-and-a-half-hour-day ? Up at six to get breakfast ready for the family, and then what ? A bit of washing and cleaning, perhaps a bit of baby-minding, but the day is theirs, until it's time to prepare for the evening meal, clean up afterwards, and again, the evening is their own. Hardly seven and a half hours, even if it is seven days a week.

And for that bit of work, they get food and board, AND $ 150 a week to do with whatever they like.

Clearly, the Greens have a much more enlightened policy on the employment of unskilled labour than any other of the Right-wing, capitalist-oriented parties. If they gain the balance of power, in a coalition government with Labor, we can expect some attention to their enlightened policies on overseas and unskilled labour.

Cheers,

Joe

It’s reported today that Di Natale did not keep timesheets for the work done by his nannies, who were earning $3.75 an hour cash for a 40 hour week.

For someone that is supposedly is spruiking for the underdog, he is looking increasingly like a privileged individual who relies on cut priced labour to run his family.

Hypocrisy thy name is Greens.

Agreed.

So many politicians these days would feel perfectly at home swapping parties. I think many of them only run for the party they do because that party holds the seat they live in.

I fear the day might come when political parties might swap politicians mid term.

Labour and liberal are the two wings on the same bird-of-prey.

Hi Joe,

The hours of au pairs in general are irrelevant. No doubt some work 8 or more hours in a day. But Richard Di Natale hired his on the basis of 25 hours work per week. Is there any evidence that he was overworking them? AFAICT the accusation they were working a 40 hour week originated with Shadow!

SM is good at coming up with news that no one else has heard of. Probably from his favorite News paper that no one else reads.

Hi Aidan & 579,

Yes, you're probably right, au pairs probably have it pretty easy. They might have to do a bit of work seven days a week, but apart from the early morning rises to get breakfast on, and then a little bit of cleaning up, washing, making beds, vacuuming, and so on, they would be free most of the day until the time to prepare dinner, for vthe odd dinner party with a dozen guests, and then clean up afterwards.

As a bloke, I can't see that totalling much more than four or five hours a day. So in total, they probably only put in thirty hours or even less. The rest of the time, while they're waiting, they can sit on Dr. di Natale's verandah looking out at the Otways and enjoying life.

And on top of all that, they get $150 to do absolutely what they like with, to squander it on fripperies and little nothings when they can get into town. How much better could life get ?

Cheers,

Joe

The real point is that according Australian labor laws, the accommodation and meals are a condition of service, and cannot be deducted from the wages. The minimum wage for casual work is about $22 /hr with an assumption that there is a 38hr week ($800 /wk) unless specifically contracted and hours are recorded.

That this is regularly flaunted does not mean that this is legal, and Dinner Tally's argument that this is common practise is specious given the insistence of the Green Labor and the unions of rigorously applying minimum wages without exception. Dinner Tally happily ignored the law when it was convenient for him, and thus is a hypocrite.

As a youngster I went picking fruit, and sometimes at remote locations stayed with the farmer for a few days (in somewhat rough accommodations) and were fed, and paid the casual wage without deductions. I would imagine that Dinner Tally living on a farm would make it impossible for a casual nanny to commute to work, making accommodation a condition of service.

Hi SM,

Okay, let's suppose you're right, that out in the Otways, accommodation for a nanny would be mandatory, since she can't very well commute backwards and forwards even from Geelong. But that still means that she would be provided with food, and access to facilities, as well as that $ 150, every single week.

You might also suggest that she would be working on weekends - in fact, she may be particularly busy on weekends - and all in for $ 150, which probably includes payment at weekend penalty rates. So her rates are probably something like $ 18 per day through the week and $ 30 per day on weekends. Superficially this looks like the equivalent of an hour's pay each day, but we need to look more closely at the realities. Tax-free by the way.

We have to remember that these wages are far higher than they would be in almost any Third World country for women from other Third World countries. So Bill Leak's cartoon in today's Australian is quite inaccurate in assuming that an au pair would be from Northern Europe. As well, she would be most likely to speak fairly good English. But what can you expect from the Murdoch-gutter-big-end-of-town press ?

Once the Greens win Batman, Fremantle, Brisbane and Grayndler, we will see a new day for au pairs, nannies, domestic servants and governesses, when they will have more secure 24/7/365 employment available for them in inner-city suburbs, at the equivalent of pretty decent wages, and in accordance with their needs and English-language skills, to give them a lift out of Third World poverty.

Joe

LM,

If the au pairs were in the 3rd world, food and accommodation would would be dirt cheap, and you are kidding yourself if you think 4hrs would be the limit of an au pair's duties for a day. I noticed that in the ad there was no mention of 25hrs, and I doubt that a young girl is just dying to kick back and look at a rural farm.

As mentioned before, the rate of $150/wk well below the average paid for au pairs, and a tiny fraction of the rate paid for a nanny. The minimum wage rates for a casual $21.60 /hr and much higher after hours. By any means Dinner Tally was a skinflint, and probably worse.

It is interesting that Dinner Tally is a worse employer than any conservative.

Hi SM,

Sorry, I can't write any more on this subject, I've been threatened with sarcasm fines from Murdoch and Griffith Universities. And banned from the ARSE (Australian Registered Satirists' Enterprise) for failing the subtlety tests.

Cheers,

Joe

A cartoon to sum it up:

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/afeaf092ef67ef18f0adc7f646cae825?width=1024

The man is a pratt and deserves nothing less than concrete shoes