People donate to homeless people and they will tell others not to treat homeless people differently because they are only human but how many of those people will become true friends with homeless people? How many of them will actually hang out with the homeless people and keep in contact with them like good old mates? How many of them will actually treat the homeless people like they would treat there friends who have heaps of money?

Probably none of them. So what?

Another question may be, how many homeless people are homeless due to the likes of;
Refusing to look for or hold work.
Ruining their previous relationship and finding they have nowhere to live.
Refusing to move to more affordable townships where rents are affordable.

Some people are homeless through choice, or through their direct actions whereby they lost the right to live where they lived.

Is this societies fault?

Now if we redirected funding from the likes of foreign aid, or even slashed immigration, then perhaps we could do more to help. The simple fact is, we don't have the funds to fund everything.

Hey Beth,
Aren't these homeless people you're talking about getting $600 f/n from Centrelink?
Why are they homeless?
Not all rents are as expensive as say Sydney, I'm sure there's places out rural way where rent is $50 a week for a house.

Are these people just lazy and do not have the will to help themselves?
I'm sure many aussies find themselves in trouble and homeless at one point or another, but many have families to fall back on.

I feel sorry for those who fall on hard times through no fault of their own, but the strong and resilient ones won't be there long because they will help themselves out of that situation.

Many find themselves there through bad choices and a life of not taking responsibility for themselves.

Capitalism is the right to choose / work for the life you want for yourself, but you must also take responsibility for yourself if you make the wrong choices.

There's too many people in this country taking a free ride for granted, and for those that choose not to help themselves out of that situation, they can't say that life did not give them the opportunities or choices to do better for themselves in the first place.

Of course I still feel some sympathy for people who are homeless but the level of sympathy I feel 'depends' on the circumstances that transpired to get them where they are and how willing they are to improve their own circumstances.
But if they're not willing to care for themselves why should I?

rehctub - Agree with you, with government newstart plus rental assistance it would be somewhere around $500 plus per 2 weeks.

I think some of the do gooders needs to go and ask questions to find out exactly why people are homeless.

Now if it is monetary then what exactly are they spending the above amount they get on.

If they are spending the money on drugs, booze or cigarettes that is their stupidity.

If people are homeless through no fault of their own government should try to help them, simple fact Australia has no homeless so called refugees but has homeless Australians. That is a problem.

My niece when 13 became 'homeless'. She wanted to hang out with older boys (druggies). She told many lies to police and agencies. They backed her rather than the parents who wanted to put very limited boundaries on the kids (far less than I would of). Many Indigenous homeless still live nomadic lives. Millions is spent on mending smashed up homes after being kicked out for multiply offences. Easy welfare has created much homelessness. Many young kids are now victims of this idiotic socialist policy.

runner - How did she turn out now how many years on, a deadbeat or okay person?

Dear Beth,

People today tend not to find the time to befriend and/or hang-around anyone in real life, so it's little to do with homelessness and much to do with the technology that was "supposed" to save us time but instead sucks it away. People would usually not even know it when their virtual "friends" on-line are homeless.

Runner, I too agree that our welfare system is too generous, but not so much in the amount paid, but the fact that all but for the likes of rent assistance is paid in easily wasted cash, and there in lies the major problem.

Furthermore, as many, if not the majority of homeless people cant manage their own lives, why the hell give them cash to manage in the first place.

Our welfare system is to stupid for words.

As a inner Sydney resident and someone who encounters homelessness on a daily basis, I say some on this thread have no idea about homeless people. The problem is far more complex than money, as for the notion its only a matter of getting a job, and all will be fine, that is rubbish. Many homeless people are unemployable, their lives a screwed up mess. For some there is hope, for others they are too far gone.

I was talking to a chap the other day, 60 years old, been out of work 18 months. Age and low skill levels, now we can add low self esteem, to the list. The bloke is battling, said to me he wanted to move out of his rented digs $160/week (over half his dole) into a more affordable $70/week room. I said, that move will put you one step above the gutter, we talked for a while about his life, his family he's not had contact with in 10 years, The bloke is on a gradual downward spiral. Our next move is he will try and contact his family (sister), not going to be easy, if we can, he'll write his sister a short letter and hopefully with family involved, a long shot at best, things will improve. Got to find sisters address first.

The Exodus Foundation run by Rev Bill Cruz is doing work that does make a difference. Bill Cruz is one of the few real Christians you will ever meet.

http://www.exodusfoundation.org.au/page.aspx?pid=291

Hey Paul1405,
I'm not saying that fixing the issues for all homeless people is simple.
As you said, "For some there is hope, for others they are too far gone."

But the problem in theory isn't that difficult.

All we have to do is empower people with knowledge to not make bad choices and decisions in the first place and make the best of their lives and safeguard them with fall-back options to help themselves out of a bad situation when they do get a little off track.

I wouldn't want to impose on anyone, but both empower people to choose better for themselves, and give them the tools and opportunities to achieve it.

'runner - How did she turn out now how many years on, a deadbeat or okay person?'

at this stage extremely manipulative (still only a teenager)

AC, what about this bloke; "Tom" about 70 years old, came across him on the streets "cadging". Turned out Tom lived in a house, had for years, most of his life. before his mother died. The place was filthy, a mess indescribable, backyard grass overgrown, no gas, no electricity, still had water. Tom didn't get a pension, he had letters years old from 'Centrelink' some unopened. How did he survive, you may ask, I did, collected cans, and asked people for money in the streets, smoked bumpers, didn't drink, had an old CBA passbook account with a few hundred dollars in it, never touched it. Why according to Tom it was the money to bury him about $300. Whey Tom got a few bucks he would buy a packet of hotdogs or something from the supermarket and eat colddogs, Tom would sometimes buy a hot meat pie, called it a bake dinner.
Tom died of cancer and a brother was found, cleaned up Toms house and sold it for over %1 million. The brother, knew Tom was in mums house, but they had, had no contact in the years since mum passed away. His younger brother was a nice ordinary bloke, but he lived in Victoria and their lives had simply drifted apart. Tom had worked in a regular job years back. when checked Tom had a little bit of unclaimed Superannuation, which went to his brother, more that the $300 he set aside to bury him. About 6 people attended his send off. Sad.

A large number of homeless people live with untreated mental health issues, and thus cannot work nor rent anywhere to live, due to their behaviour problems or lack of desire to find anywhere to live.

If we increase mental health treatment centres and assisted group housing for these people, we would have far less homeless people. Check out the homeless living on the streets in winter and you will see mainly people with severe mental health problems, so don't be so harsh on them....

The politics of envy strikes again.
Rich, comfortable well off people jealous because someone is getting a pittance to keep them alive.
Sick bigoted scumbags.

Suse, absolutely true, the number of homeless people with mental health issues, staggering. People not taking their medication, off the planet, some are incapable of picking up papers, don't know what sort of job one could expect them to do. They can't read, don't remember who you are, even if they seen you yesterday. There are people on the streets of Sydney who could not even tell you their own name.

Some post moralizing clap trap. "easily wasted cash, and there in lies the major problem." Butch, just give us the answer, a lot of people would like to know that answer. There is one bloke out there who literally throws money at people. He collects coins, then throws them at people. What do you want done with him.

Paul and MIKK, while I accept some homeless are mentally ill and totally un employable, there are other who are not, and it is these people who I suggest are in such a state through their own doing.

Now if someone displays a total lack o0f ability to run their own life, how on earth do we expect them to manage money. This is why we need to stop paying cash, because they simply cant manage it.

Now before you get back on your hobby horse, im not suggesting this is wrong, (that they cant manage money) its just that like so many social issues, we treat the symptom, while ignoring the cause.

First and foremost, homeless people in the likes of Sydney would receive quite a few bucks from passers by, simply due to numbers. However, how many times have you heard the story of people wanting to buy them food, but they insist on money.

So Paul, to answer your question, step one is a restricted debit card instead of cash. You could then set up shelters where they pay $30 per day for three meals and a bed. This way they are housed and fed, and, they have a small amount to spend on other items, clothing etc. But no cash for the likes of gambling, grog or fags.

Let's face it, most shelters are run on donations and voluntary workforces, so it stands to reason that if they housed say $100 people, that's over a million dollar a year boost to the centre, and im sure most centres would welcome that.

Of cause centres also have rules, and these in turn also turn some homeless away.

Of cause the alternative is we continue to sit back and watch the situation worsen, and do little or nothing, as has been the case for decades. Just throwing money into a broken system.

I reckon that suseonline was right when she said that many of the homeless have mental disorders. Drug use and choice would impact on that.

What is not being mentioned is the elephant in the room which was the removal and sale of the C'wealth's mental health and rehab facilities that tipped so many vulnerable and marginally coping people out into the street for relatives to care for, which they couldn't manage of course.

There should be no need to add that (in my view) many of the police shootings of offenders presenting with weapons and I hasten to say that the police cannot avoid to protect the public and themselves, are people who might not have had that final ending if they had had access much earlier and continuing to the sort of mental health facilities that the feds used to provide by dispensed with during the Howard and Hawke years.

Let the record be clear, it was BOTH sides of politics and Greens were urgers too. Differing ideological imperatives but the same effect - to allow fad economics that appealed somehow to their respective idealism (world view) to determine social policy. Both sides AGREED and took their own separate action on the defunding and sale of those facilities.

I still have and use several solid pine low lounge tables that were crafted in such a facility (in the ACT) that have withstood the tests of time. Performing work like that under supervision and just having a place to go provided a necessary routine, predictability and sense of being of worth that so many vulnerable people need. It also provided trained, watchful eyes for changes in behaviour. And alternatives for police and families when presenting behaviour required a sanctuary for a time, or longer perhaps.

This thread and similar others before remind me of the arrogant stupidity and short term politics of federal politicians and how there isn't a statesman among them. As for women bringing a different perspective, they are just the same old, same old act and Party hacks. No ideas, just "Gimme my entitlements, NOW!".

"What is not being mentioned is the elephant in the room which was the removal and sale of the C'wealth's mental health and rehab facilities that tipped so many vulnerable and marginally coping people out into the street for relatives to care for, which they couldn't manage of course."

Yep....this had a huge impact on the number homeless in our communities.

All this bleeding heart stuff is great. I do wonder how many of the bleeding hearts are making a good living, at our expense, from these drop kicks.

A case study. A bloke was living on a derelict boat someone had given him, on a Balmain marina mooring in the late 60s. Unemployed he had been on the dole for years. He also stank & had not used the marinas showers for years.

He cashed his dole check & paid his mooring fees at the marina, but otherwise was rarely seen, & never a problem to anyone, other than funding his dole.

A bloke from the CES in those days, came down & made him take a shower, gave him a couple of pairs of clean shorts & blue singlets, & a job to go to the next day. He was told this was the last he would get from the CES, & he could go to work or starve.

Of course this would be against his human rights today, but it worked. The bum went to work, had to shower, bought some more clothes, cleaned up his act & his boat. A few months later a lady moved in with him, then later they both disappeared into suburbia.

Like so many so call homeless bums, this bloke needed a kick up the butt, not more "help". So much bleeding heart help is totally destructive, & exactly the wrong thing to do with these people. If "helping" them was not such a good career path, & kicking bums was made a more sustainable career, there would be a lot less homeless around today.

Hard love, not more welfare is what is needed.

He'd be busy on the Gold Coast and hinterland. Where they spend thousands on tatts to avoid getting a job.

Hard love will not work every time, but too much kind love is definitely not the answer. Another case study.

Ex brother in law. Very hard working small businessman, he used to exhaust himself with long hours, & disappear for a couple of days "gone surfing" occasionally. His wife covered for him, & kept the business alive. He would come back refreshed, & roar back into it, still overdoing it.

He needed some business coaching & counselling, but what he got was mental health professional. Instead of a kick up the butt, he got bleeding heart tears. They convinced him he was a poor misunderstood fellow, who needed their help, when what he really needed was some time management training.

His disappearances grew to weeks, the business collapsed, they lost the house, & spilt up.

He has not worked since, over 9 years now, & is not required to look for work. His new girlfriend is of a similar disposition, not at all interested in working if she can bludge. They bought a small camper van, & camp mostly in the bush, at various surfing spots, keeping just enough contact to turn up for his daughters wedding.

This bloke needed just a little training, but was flooded with bleeding heart love. That was the most destructive thing that could have happened to him, & we will pay for it for the rest of his life.

It doesn’t sound like he got himself a very good mental health professional (Psychologist? Psychiatrist?) then, Hasbeen.

I’m not sure about psychiatrists, but if a lack of time management skills was this guy’s main problem, then a psychologist should have been able to identify that in one or two sessions, then equip him with the tools he needed to manage his time better; maybe refer him onto an Organisational Psychologist that specialises in these things, if need be.

How the heck a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist could give someone “bleeding-heart tears” (whatever they are) and think that that is a solution to anything is beyond me. And if such a professional exists, then they need to be reported to the relevant board. With malpractice like that, the guy probably could have sued for so much that he'd be able to start his business back up again.

Are you sure this isn’t just another beat-up about how bleeding-heart lefties are the cause of all the world’s ills?

Something's amiss here.

So if a person pisses their life away and becomes addicted to drugs, is this person really societies problem. Sorry, but you build your nest, you lie in it.

We already pay enough in taxes and, if governments cant distribute those taxes in an efficient manner, then that's not our problem. Any wonder people avoid paying taxes, because they are wasted in many areas.

Any clues where the funding for the 27,000 per year, many of which are illiterate in their own language is going to come from?

Another question may be, how many homeless people are homeless due to the likes of;
Refusing to look for or hold work.
Ruining their previous relationship and finding they have nowhere to live.
Refusing to move to more affordable townships where rents are affordable.

Some people are homeless through choice, or through their direct actions whereby they lost the right to live where they lived.

Is this societies fault?

Now if we redirected funding from the likes of foreign aid, or even slashed immigration, then perhaps we could do more to help. The simple fact is, we don't have the funds to fund everything.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 21 May 2016 10:48:24 AM

How many times have I heard this crap.

Talk about being trained up to hold particular views on given subjects by TPTB.

People who write this crap clearly demonstrate they have little experience at the business of living life and have learnt little in their time in this world.

If only some rich people would give them one room to stay, wash and get them the lowest paid job, they could have be great people.