I hear some talk about the nations "revenue" problems. Funny how some things are undiscussible, off the table, not allowed to be talked about, banned in the media.

If there is a shortage of tax then why not extend the GST to share trades? How many billion does the ASX turn over in each year? How much would 10% of that be?

Did you know that about 90-95% of shares are brought and sold by only 10-20$ of share traders. Why is this? well, its because the 80-20 rule applies to the share market just like it applies in nature and many other places.

Of course, the rich and powerful through the mouth pieces they own, will scream from the roof tops about how bad this would be. Know that if you accept such arguments you are effectively accepting that to levy any tax on business is a bad thing. Mind you, if people here knew the banks create money out of thin air, then they would do well to realise that the govt can too using the exact same method. Govt always did this before they gave that right away to the banks.

How you do you think Australia got "built" from after WW2 to the mid 70's if the govt, through the commonwealth bank, did not create money out of thin air?

Read "The Remarkable Model Of The Commonwealth Bank Of Australia" by Ellen Brown, August 4th, 2010

I'm neither rich nor powerful, but I know that applying GST to share trades would be very bad for the economy. Rather than paying the GST and making a loss, most share transactions would simply not be done. And it would make it extremely difficult for companies to raise money on the share market.

Taxing business turnover is generally a bad thing, but the same can't be said for taxing business profits.

The Coalition spent an inordinate amount of time in opposition criticising the Labor Governments spending and economic management, some of which was justified.but much was totally unjustified. In government the Coalition has proven to be just as incompetent economic managers as Labor, if indeed our governments are incompetent to the degree that some will argue.
Taxation policy was made the central focus of the Turnbull governments economic strategy, much of which has been shot down in flames, giving the government little room to move. 15% GST gone, State income tax gone.
The problem is not expenditure, with determination that can be controlled, the problem is one of income. In my view what the government needs to do is stop pussy footing around with business, the big tax avoider's and make them pay their fair share. Collect all the GST payable, including the missing billions, make business pay the billions of tax dollars they are pocketing at the moment. Then take a look at the situation and then argue tax policy.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ato-warns-60-multinationals-enough-is-enough-on-tax-avoidance-20160210-gmqfrc.html

Hi Aidan,
I wonder if it would actually be so bad for companies trying to raise money? The only time share trades produce capital for a company is at the initial float or on subsequent releases of new shares.

Perhaps new floats could be exempted from the GST, but all regular trading (the vast bulk of share-market activity) should be subject to it, I believe.

I also tend to think that this whole idea of share-trading as a noble pursuit is wildly overblown, but that's probably fodder for another discussion altogether (or a look at Marjorie Kelly's book 'The Divine Right of Capital')

In principle, I also agree with you that taxing turnover is less fair than taxing profits. But the GST is - by its nature - a turnover tax. It is applied at a flat rate to all, regardless of their capacity to pay. So making an exception for share trades seems logically inconsistent.
.

@ Referendumdrivensociety
Thanks for the reference to the Ellen Brown article on the web. An excellent piece from an authority on monetary reform.

It's a pity that more Australians don't appreciate the great work done by Denison Miller and King O'Malley to establish a Commonwealth Bank which served the people first.

Another great source on monetary reform (if you can find a copy) is 'Beyond Economic Treadmill' by Allan R Jones - an Australian inventor, not the radio shock-jock.

The largest share traders are of course our Super Funds, as Australian workers have around 2 trillion$ invested on their behalf, which is more than the whole ASX is worth.

So are you suggesting that your Super Fund should be robbed of GST
money, so that you have less to spend in retirement?

Yabby - I hear what you're saying. But the same argument could be made about any of my discretionary spending. If there was no GST on anything, we'd all have more money that we could invest in our super.

So why is share trading special?

According to the ATO, share trades are classified as 'financial supplies' along with bank loans, credit cards etc. Financial supplies are GST exempt.

Going back to my earlier post, I could (maybe) accept that logic as it applies to initial share floats and new releases of shares, because in those situations money is actually flowing to a business.

But for regular share trading, the money spent is buying a stake in a corporation from another person who already owns that stake. It's a straight purchase, not a loan.

.

So a smart guy like me could come along, open an exchange for Aussie shares in Singapore, all smart money would use it and save themselves a fortune. I would become rich and many Australians would lose their jobs. Smart thinking for Australia ?

Shares are not goods so the "G" in GST doesn't apply.

Stamp duty, tho', now there's a chance to pull some dosh. It was abolished on share purchases with the intro of the GST, while it still sits like a dead-weight on property.

Why?

I would suggest that the majority of trades are made by companies that are registered for GST, therefore they would claim their GST back.

A very small transaction tax would be a much better option.

Has any of the economic geniuses on this site even considered why no country in the world has taxed transactions or financial instruments?

The answer is simple, transactions can theoretically take place anywhere, for example I can buy shares in BHP in Sydney or in london from my computer at home. If Aus has a transaction tax, I, and most others would be stupid to use a Sydney account, and the local stock exchange would collapse. Businesses would simply not use local banks, local employment would shrivel and the ATO would collect far less taxes than they do now.

A prime example of this is in the EU where London has the lowest cost of transaction and does more business than the rest of the EU put together.

Irrespective of what you think should be done with GST there is one thing that is certain: If the Coalition get back in after the election they will raise the GST from 10% to 15%.

Hell No.
That's the equivalent of taxing savings.

Nobody would trade shares if you had to give up a 10% margin straight off the top.
There would be less investment capital.
Projects wouldn't get started.
There would be less jobs created.
The economy would suffer.

We don't have a problem with tax.
We have a problem with policy and spending.

Dear Armchair Critic,

No worries. There will be a shitload of cash and people flowing into Australia from China over the next two decades to make sure everything keeps on track.

Don't think Australia anymore. Think in terms of us being a part of the great Chinese experience of this century. The future in Australia will be where the many know about the Year of the Dog etc and only a few know what Xmas is. And hopefully there will be bag loads of free fake $40K Rolexes for everyone.

We all realise what a daft and stupid idea this tax is, Why hasn't the Turnbull Government announced it as Malcolm's new tax policy? After all when it comes to daft and stupid tax policy, 15% GST, State income tax etc, no one beats Malcolm, he could have announced it during half time at the footy last night. It would dovetail well with the new Sex Tax, to be announced this week when Malcolm's opens the Nong Nong School Fate. Most importantly no one is to tell Scotty about this, Malcolm wants it to be a complete surprise for Scotty's budget.

Dear Paul1405,

The really important thing to keep in mind is that the GST increase to 15% and the double Federal-State taxing system have been publicly tabled by Turnbull and for all intents and purposes part of his election platform and will obviously be two of the things that he will claim to have been given a mandate to carry out if the Coalition get back in.

Paul,

The transaction tax is a populist policy only seriously considered by economic pinheads, which is why it is Greens policy:

http://www.greens-efa.eu/eu-financial-transaction-tax-14960.html

And why the coalition won't touch it with a barge pole.

If you want to see more bonehead populist brain farts you need look no further than:

http://greens.org.au/policies/global-economics

Hey Mr Opinion,
My comment wasn't in regard to allowing unlimited foreign investment in Australian companies listed on the ASX, but in taxing everyday Australian's who also may wish to own shares in these companies.

No worries Armchair Critic. All belong China now!

How would charging Banks 1 percent each time a deposit transaction is made?

Shadow, no sooner had your pin up boy Tax Em' Tony been given the flick for promoting hair brained policy and being an all round flying fool. Then Mad Malcolm tries to hit us with a 50% increase in the GST, plus doubling income tax by having the States slug battling Aussies with a great big state income tax. To top it off, Malcolm favors the 'Big End' of Town paying little or no tax. Then he thinks its a good idea if the banks are allowed to continue ripping off customers.

And you have the hide to criticise the Greens! No fool like an olf fool, or a Liberal voter.

If you vote Liberal/National and they are returned, you can expect your GST to increase by 50%, and your Income Tax to increase by a minimum 100%. Giving new meaning to the phrase 'THE WORKING POOR!"

Don't worry Shadow, you'll be right, there will always (hopefully) be a bed for you down at the Matthew Talbot, if Turnbull's returned!

The Liberals have a new novel reverse form of taxation. If you don't vote for them, and they still win, then they pull the plug on funding for your electorate. Just ask the good folk of Wangaratta, when the Liberal air head Sophie Mirabella was rightly "A" holed from the seat of Indi in favor of independent Cathy McGowan, as punishment the Coalition Government pulled $10 million in much needed funding from Wangearatta Hospital. How many other Australians have been punished in this way?

This is the very thing a Federal ICAC would need to investigate for Liberal Party corruption. The NSW ICAC has uncovered massive corruption in the state Liberal Party.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-22/mirabella-slapped-down-by-joyce-over-funding-comments/7351744

Paul,

It must stick in your craw to realise that you just fingered the greens as economic pinheads. Sad to realise that all green voters have the IQ of a chicken, and are unable to realise the difference between aspirational brain farts and reality.

Secondly, what would make other readers believe you'd hit the 'shrooms again would be that MT has never mentioned lifting the GST to 15%, it was a figure picked out by labor and the greens as a scare campaign, blissfully ignorant that all other socialist countries have a GST of up to 25%.

And a federal ICAC would also uncover more of the rampant corruption in the GanGreen party, of

Karel Solomon (party perv),
Disease Rhiannon,
Syphilitic Hansen young,
Dicky dinner tab,

Paul1405, that's not reverse taxation, it's Singapore style reverse porkbarrelling!

Nor is it new to Australian politics; something similar brought down Ros Kelly in the mid '90s.

Nor is there any evidence it actually happened this time. Sophie Mirabella may well have been lying.

Aidan, Sophie is a Liberal, and Liberals don't lie, just ask Shadow and the X NSW Primer Barry (I don't remember) O'Farrell if Liberals lie. Then if they don't give you a straight answer I'll give you the dreaded List of 10, the best Liberal liars in NSW.

Shadow, you failed to mention that great big TAX Mad Malcolm proposed, remember THE STATE INCOME TAX it was only a couple of week ago. According to some conservatives Turnbull is a "raving red", are you in that bag. so I was wrong about a 15% GST the Socialists Mad Malcolm favors a 25% GST. Thank you for clearing that one up, it must have been one of his "Admiral Picks" he let out at half time at the footy, sorry I missed that game.

Shadow, trust you to balls it up. Are not you the fella who claimed there was massive Labor and Green corruption at the NON EXISTENT Matraville Council in Sydney. LOL your credibility is zero.

Paul,

I see that when I have caught you out bagging greens policy as idiotic, your sociopathic tendencies come out.

Given that you have just said "If you vote Liberal/National and they are returned, you can expect your GST to increase by 50%, and your Income Tax to increase by a minimum 100%." My one typo (which I immediately acknowledged) does not compare in any way to the consistent and pathological lies that you have posted. That when challenged you never acknowledge your mendacity and always try and change the topic makes me believe that you have serious issues.

That the greens now dance to the tune of their criminal CFMEU masters is no longer in dispute, and their image of well intentioned idiots is fading to something far darker. And that you can bag out BB for a $5000 helicopter ride whilst dismissing Larissa Waters profligate record $414 000 to redecorate her office at taxpayer's expense must take a fractured logic or dual personas.

Shadow, one of your links was to Europe, even you should know Europe is 3 continents away from Australia. What nonsense, will I find that non existent Matraville Council of yours in Europe? There is a suburb in Sydney called Matraville, it falls within the Randwick Council boundary. Were you confused? Did you mean to say the Liberal dominated Randwick Council is corrupt.

Given you use Europe to claim what is Greens policy in Australia. Should I refer to North Korea to get the latest Liberal Party policy in Oz?

Changing the topic makes me believe that you have serious issues. We are talking about tax and you say " Larissa Waters profligate record $414 000 to redecorate her office at taxpayer's expense must take a fractured logic or dual personas. We had Bronny taking a joy ride in a helicopter at taxpayers expense, then it was Barney's turn who's next? Will the Mad Monk do a Richard Nixon. You would think the Liberals would at least get a group booking for a bulk discount on these joy flights, reducing the taxpayers pain a little.

Shadow I'll see your $400k and raise you $500k. The Grand Daddy of ofice fitouts goes to South Australian LIBERAL MP Tony Pasin, who was elected to Parliament in 2013, racked up the highest cost — his new office in Mt Gambier topped more than $500,000.

LOL Shadow you are a crack up. The Grand Daddy of office fitouts is your man Tony Pasin, his office must be sound proof, we have not heard a peep out of the useless log since he moved in.

Paul,

Still no reply on your lie about the 15% GST and 100% income tax increase?

Still no reply on the Greens corruption on the $1.6m bribe and the dirty money laundered by the criminal CFMEU?

Still no explanation as to why the greens voting is in lock step with the CFMEU?

Still not one liberal MP declared corrupt by ICAC, yet 100+ CFMEU Greens supporters in the dock for criminal activity incl intimidation extortion and other money raising crimes for themselves, labor and the greens.

Larissa Waters still has the record for the highest cost of refurbishing an existing office of $414 000, followed by Juliar. The higher cost for TP was because he was establishing new offices in Mt Gambier in a regional area, so once again another failed porky by the Green Goblin.

I am seeing a lot of very narrow views on this thread.

My suggestion is to extend the GST to share purchase. Since then the discussion has gone way off track and I see talk now about a transaction tax.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion but allow a very lively debate within that spectrum - Noam Chomsky."

This is exactly what is happening here with the talk of the transaction tax. This doing exactly what Nome Chomsky says.

Can you people not see what is being done to you or is it that you are working to keep tax on share trades out of the discussion?

Shadow, excuse me, you are absolutely correct, the extra cost for Tony Baloney's second office in Mt Gambier, he also has another office in Murray Bridge, was it for the much need 'helipad' on top, just in case Bronny, Barney or some other equally useless Coalition member wanted to drop in. How many offices does this useless log require?
A tax on helicopter landings by useless MP's, now there is food for thought for Mad Malcolm, he should announce it during half time at the footy!

BTW, Since this Liberal Tony Pasin lobed into parliament in 2013, besides blowing $500,000 of taxpayers money, what has he done? The last record of this bloke being on a parliamentary committee was 22nd October 2015 when he finished up as a member of the Human Rights Committee. Probably back in his second office playing with the gold platted bathroom taps.

Yes RDS, it's fit-outs at ten paces!

I reiterate, The GST is about goods and services, not shares in a business. Stamp duty is the appropriate vehicle, as it is with buying a house.

If it is to be a transaction tax, as rechtub suggested, then the same should apply to houses. "A rose by any other name......"

Paul,

Of course you forgot that TP represents a seat of roughly 64 000 square km not the inner city suburbs that Adam Bent does, and that for citizens in the area to get access to the MP or a representative does require more than one office.

Whereas LW has to build a $414 000 play area at taxpayer's cost for her brat after her partner gave her the boot (I don't know what took him so long).

Shadow, your man Tony Baloney from SA, could have been just as useless in one office, why did he need a second? He could have zipped around in a taxpayer funded helicopter like Bronny and Barney!
Please answer the question what has the useless log been doing in the parliament since 22nd October 2015? Nothing.

I predict the good folk of Barker SA will realise how useless and costly your man Tony has been for them, and flick him next election. I also predict the good folk of Queensland knowing what a asset they have in Larissa Waters, they will give her a resounding vote of confidence by returning her to the Senate.

Hey why don't we all fight over which politicians spend more than others?

You people are dumb and childish.
Politicians are always going to take every thing they can get because we allow them to.

Paul,

Though I don't follow SA politics, just a quick glance shows that Tony Pasin has achieved far more than that parasite Pissy waters that infests the senate. Pissy waters could be replaced with a far more attractive and functional inflatable doll and a recordings of a jet engine whining and her saying no each time legislation was voted on.

This would save taxpayers a fortune and give Pissy waters the chance to further ruin her brat and educate it on green issues like gender fluidity, and how to have no conscience about drowning refugees, stopping all forms of industry, and how to bludge while drinking lattes.

Am I suggesting that my Super Fund should be robbed of GST
money, so that you have less to spend in retirement?

No, I am suggesting that if the fund don't pay it, its just more tax you and I pay when we retire because the tax (interest we pay on money govts borrow from banks)will simply be extended to other areas of the economy that are already taxed.

I'm also suggesting that if we don't tax share trades then the GST will simply get extended further through its existing base and not spread wider across the economy.

If we are to accept the premise of the above post, then it sounds to me like a certain mindset is making the argument that some others have made, i,e. that nothing that generates wealth should be taxed at all.

I can understand someone who has double digit millions making this argument because they win big time them but for small time insignificant little nobodies like the rest of us 99% are, its a ludicrous argument to make.

Such a mind set might just as well make an argument that all taxes should only ever be paid by wage and salary earners.

If that is what you think feel free to say so.

Shadow, good morning and salutations

Typical Liberal, getting it wrong as per usual... how can you say;

"Tony Pasin has achieved"... sleeping through parliament like the taxpayer funded Rip Van Winkle he is, is hardly an achievement. I ask again please list the parliamentary achievements of this 'Million Dollar Man' Tony Baloney since he was booted from the Human Rights Committee, 22nd October 2015. and none of that hog wash "I don't follow SA politics" he's not in the SA Parliament, he's in Canberra. You being a Liberal insider should know this.

I await your answer, with bated breath.

Paul,

I struggle to see why you should be proud of your deep and mindless ignorance of politics yet alone want to flaunt it.

TP was elected as a representative of Barker which is still in South Australia, and as a first term novice MP on the backbench, who has moved from local government, his prime responsibility is to represent the interests of Barker. In doing so he has done more for the local economy than the harpy Pissy Waters with her incoherent whining has done for Queensland.

And while I understand that greens having no actual policies of their own get their information from twitter's quips and gotcha photos, (I admit I enjoyed Juliar's face plant) I would recommend more reliable sources such as:

http://www.tonypasin.com/
and
https://www.facebook.com/TonyPasinMP/

Shadow, thank you for your prompt response, I opened your first link, to the Tony Baloney propaganda site, I didn't bother with the "Facebook" thing, I don't want Tony as a Facebook friend, given Tone's propaganda site he seems to be rather boring. About those achievements, other than managing to get out of bed most mornings what has Tone actually achieved to justify a million bucks worth of taxpayer funds being blow'n on offices for the log,
You say Tone was a local government man, I'm sure a return to LG by Tone would be welcomed by the gold folk of Barker SA, maybe you can swing him a job on Matraville Council, the gardens in the local park sure could do with a weeding. Tone could achieve something there, he's not achieving anything in Canberra.

Shadow, it was a simple question, which so far you have failed to answer. What has Tony Pasin achieved in parliament to justify the extra expenditure of $500,000 to give him a second office?

Paul,

http://www.aec.gov.au/profiles/sa/files/2011/2011-aec-a4-map-sa-barker.pdf

The 3nd and 4th largest cities in SA are Mt Gambier and Murray Bridge which are nearly 400 km apart and nearly at opposite ends of Barker. The point of having an office in each city should be obvious to everyone other than the most small minded twit. I applaud your first time looking stuff up, and look forward to you actually reading it.

I also notice that you have abjectly failed to justify why Pissy Waters needed to spend $414 000 redecorating an existing office especially after a career of zero achievement.

Sorry Referundemdrivensocienty but this discussion is stupid.
(And you're all welcome to say the same thing about me and my ideas when its deserved).

If anything maybe increase the tax the capital gains made from profits on shares, but don't tax the purchase.
Sometimes if you hold shares as an asset for more than a year I'm not sure its even taxed at all, (but I can't remember exactly)

Shares are not goods or services, they are a financial thing no different to money, just as you can buy other nations currency and profit from FOREX trading. it's really no different at all.

Taxing share purchases is moronic.
It will destroy access to investment capital, halting projects, costing jobs and ultimately destroying whats left of our economy.

Not only that ITS JUST PLAIN DUMB, because after making policies that would undermine business, jobs and the economy, there's no way of guaranteeing that your idea will amount to even 1 CENT EXTRA in government coffers.

Why?
Because not even a FOOL would buy shares if they had to lose 10% off the top on an investment product.
This is a 'cut your nose off to spite your face' kind of idea.
Nice try, but it won't work the way you hope it might.

The problem isn't tax, its the way they spend it.
Do you actually work for the government?
What side are you on?

SM,
I'll accept that sometimes electorates are so large that MP's might benefit from multiple offices in numerous cities.
I'll go along with that, simply because I believe its important to have a place for them to hold meetings, but it would have to be used more than a few times a year to be justified, not sit empty while taxpayers pay for it 'just in case' an MP needs to use it.
(That said they should be going out into the public space, not having the public come to them.)
I don't like the idea of furnishing numerous offices but I'd go along with it if it was done within reasonable expense.
If you can't do it with 20K for a desk, a computer and wall paint and then its too expensive.
But I draw the line at having to pay numerous secretaries and admin staff for all these offices in today's tech-driven world.
That is an expense that is definitely not necessary.

Taxing share purchases is moronic.

It will destroy access to investment capital, halting projects, costing jobs and ultimately destroying whats left of our economy. - How will this occur.

I also disagree because what it will do stabilise the share market by attracting long term investors. Short term speculators harm market anyway.

Shadow, now you would not be prone to exaggeration by any chance would you, describing Mt Gambier and Murray Bridge as "cities", Given neither has a population in excess of about 25,000, that would make Dubbo and Bathurst in NSW megalopolises. These two places are no more than country towns, even by Australian standards. Neither are in the top 50 in Australia by population, Alice Springs is larger.
Based on Bronny and Barneys 'choppergate' costs your man Tony Baloney could have used a helicopter 50 times in 3 years to fly from Murray Bridge to Mt Gambier and back.

I agree with Armchair Critic.

Mr Pasin defended his spend, saying the work done was “similar to equivalent newly established premises for MPs”, particularly in regional locations where there are no existing offices.
And in case you were concerned the furniture would pale in comparison to the distressed oak floorboards, the Barker MP also spent $140,130.84 on facilities and $117,512.49 on administrative costs. Now that’s a Reno Rumble. DISTRESSED OAK FLOORBOARDS INDEED.

The next question; How much actual time (and this bloke has plenty of times on his hands since been given the flick from that committee back on 22nd October 2015.) has this bloke spent in his swanky new Mt Gambier office, less than 3 weeks in 2 1/2 years, that at a cost of about 170,000 per week.

Because not even a FOOL would buy shares if they had to lose 10% off the top on an investment product.

You invest in things every day, kids education, insurance on the car, the house, perhaps health insurance, security appliances etc, etc and you pay 10$ tax on them, do you feel like a fool for doing that?

You want it so you buy it and pay the tax.

How would shares be any different?

Paul1405,
Mount Gambier and Murray Bridge are cities. Your failure to recognise that is merely an error on your part. It's true that they're both outside the top fifty, but that just means Australia has more than fifty cities.FWIW they're both in the top ten cities in SA (by conurbation population).

________________________________________________________________________________

Referundemdrivensocienty,
Most people buy shares only to make a profit, whereas the other "investments" you mentioned are things that enable them either to do what they couldn't otherwise do or to avoid unexpected costs.

Referundemdrivensocienty,
How does charging people to invest attract people to invest?
You clearly haven't thought this through, have you?
Short term investors provide liquidity.

Do you know anything about shares at all?
Have you ever owned or traded them?
The amount of shares on issue multiplied by the share price equals the market cap, or what people think the company is worth.
What you are suggesting undermines that whole valuation process.

Why am I going to invest $100, when I know I'm only going to get $90 worth of stuff?
As an investor I'm going to find a different vehicle for my investment, one that doesn't charge me a royalty and leave me open to an instant 10% loss 'just for investing'.

What if you played the pokies and put $10 in a 1 cent machine and only got 900 credits, would you think that was fair?

Your idea isn't even equal to being a tax, it equals blatent government theft.

And finally why don't you look at where government wastes money, rather than coming up with ways to destroy the economy and tax the Australian public more?

Actually, why don't you just go and learn for yourself why this is dumb instead of arguing with my opinion and wasting both our times?
All your plan does is create new problems while achieving nothing.

And it's not goods or a service its a financial product, the same as money.
If you want to tax people who profit from shares more increase the capital gains tax on those profits.
Its not rocket science.

Paul,

I know that you are just trying to divert attention from the ganGREENs wasteful expenditure of taxpayers money. So what did Pissy waters spend $414 000 just doing up her existing office? As you obviously can no justification, the conclusion is that Pissy Waters simply doesn't give a crap about the taxpayer I guess that most voters in Queensland would be happy to see her dumped at sea.

AC,

Even a office that TP attends a couple of days a week if attended by an assistant can be a point of contact where people can bring their concerns. While Paul thinks an occasional fly in visit or stunt as the greens do actually gives the locals any representation he is delusional

Aiden, The Australian Bureau of Statistics refers to both Mt Gambier and Murray Bridge as "Regional Population Centers" does the B of S also get it wrong. I can find no reputable reference, such as the UN, referring to these localities as "cities". Of course you can refer to any location as a city, if you so desire. Hicksville population 3, could qualify as a "city" in some peoples book.

Possibly merely an error on your part.

I do not have a problem with MP's having a second office where warranted. It should be just that, a second office, not some grand Taj Mahal, like this bloke in SA expects. After all he was only elected a lowly backbencher, not the President of the United States. In this day and age of rapid communications, it would be hard to justify that second office at the huge expense Tony Pasin has run up.
A hard working MP like Bob Katter maintains 2 electoral offices at Innisfail and Mt Isa a distance of about 1200Km, apart, 3 times that of Tony Pasin offices. I would rate the work effort of Bob Katter far above that of the other bloke.

Shadow, you are better at "foot in mouth" than the Mad Monk himself, it must be a Liberal thing.

"fly in visit or stunt" which one are you referring to? Bronny's hellishly expensive fly in visit to Geelong, for a party, party, or Barny's stunt of flying into the "city" of Drake (pop 397) to open the local phone box. Have to give it to Barney, he loves a joyride in a helicopter.

From the SMH.

Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce chartered a helicopter to visit an area less than an hour and a half by road from his ministerial office in Armidale.
The flight to Copeton Dam (120km at $4,000) places a question mark over a key plank of the National leader's defence of his helicopter usage, supported on Friday by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, that choppers were used as an alternative to unreasonably long drives.

That's $33 per Km, Barney could have hired a stretched Limo at a cheaper cost to the taxpayer!

Just checked out property prices in Drake City (pop 397) Barney could pick-up a nice little bungalow there for a measly $149,000, no need to fly in, could sleep over. Down in SA Tony Baloney could have got a 3 bedroom house for $170,000 save the taxpayer $330,000 and we could throw in a free bed (king size for the new monarch) just to sleep in one week per year.

Ultimately MP's are doing a public service, so really I think the question of extra offices is a matter for the community that benefits from it themselves.
If there's a genuine need for it, then give the community what they want.

As for the cost, rather than get upset with how they waste money, I'd rather point out the stupidity of our own system of allowing them to make laws for themselves.

I've said this many time before:
If they make the laws for us, we should make the laws for them.
Fix that problem and so many other problems cease to exist.

I'd give them a generic office or a maximum spend amount.
Paul1405 had some good points and ideas.
I think maybe they could benefit from some kind of mobile office as well, work more, spend less and get out into the community where they're supposed to be.

Referundemdrivensocienty,
Sorry if I came across as being harsh, you'll have to get used to that - its the way I roll,
(I don't shy away from giving my honest opinion)
Please don't be offended, you're all more than welcome to give it back when I deserve it.

The regressive GST could be junked altogether and a Tobin tax levied on all transfers of $A into foreign currencies and foreign currencies into $A.

People visiting family abroad could be compensated by a rebate.

The losers would be the players on the currency markets.

A 0.1% rate would provide ample revenue for the government to fund universal access to health care, education, retirement income and the normal services provided by the public sector of the economy.

Another possibility would be to make the rate 1%. That would have the advantage of raising a barrier to international trade, the purpose of which is to scour the world for the worst social, environmental and labour conditions to source goods to bring in duty-free to undermine conditions at home.

Paul,

Having trolled through the minutia on liberal travels, perhaps you could explain why Syphilitic Hansen Young has spent $1m on travel junkets? And I'm still waiting for you to justify the spending of $414 000 for Pissy waters to redecorate her office. Did she use a lot of gold?

As for cities trust you to stuff it up again. A lesson in small words for the ignorant:

There is no fixed definition of a city, and this largely falls to the municipality itself which apparently both Murray Bridge and Mt Gambier do, and have been referred to as such.

For example I'd learnt that a city was >100k people, but in Aus Wagga boldly claims to be the biggest in land city in Aus with a population of 70k.

Shadow, are you off the planet? Slavishly repeating the bull dust published in the Murdoch gutter press.

Now lets take a look at two MP's from South Australia and compare their expenditure as published by The Australian Governments Department of Finance for the latest reporting period January 1st 2015 to June 30th 2015.

Senator Sarah Hanson-Young claimed approx $144,000 in expenditure.

MP Tony Baloney Pasin claimed approx $370,000 in expenditure.

The Monarch of Mt Gamnier notched up more than double the expenditure of the Greens Sarah Hanson-Young, in fact he spent apprx $226,000 more,

Just imagine how much this bloke would cost if he actually done something useful for the taxpayer, millions!

Yeah Shadow some puffed up local councilors like to think they are running a "city" population 3, when the reality is they can't even tie their shoelaces without help.
As I said Shadow, you are a crack up!

Most people buy shares only to make a profit, whereas the other "investments" you mentioned are things that enable them either to do what they couldn't otherwise do or to avoid unexpected costs.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 26 April 2016 10:39:37 PM

Same arguement again mate, we buy things besides shares to try and make a profit. Many of them incur GEST to.

How many more times do I have keep making this point.

For those of you who think that taxing anything from which a profit could be made, is bad, then for christ sake say so and say so for that reason. Don't try n come up reasons for not taxing share trades just because you think it stifles incentive, when just about everything else we buy and or invest in is taxed. It does just not hold water.

You all face this choice, Continue to see wage and salary earners continue to pay more and more of the nations tax, which means you will pay more tax,if you are a wage or salary earner, while at the same time see the this vast untapped source of tax sits there that is mostly only there for business and the top end of town, both of whom do not pay much tax anyway, to use.

When I went out to work in 1968 the company tax was 60% today is 30% and falling. If you want to pay more tax so the top end of town can continue to pay little, good luck to you.

Of course the top of town will scream the sky will fall in and the economic will grind to a stop.

Well I've never said that taxing something that turns a profit is bad.
You can't exactly tax something that doesn't you idiot.

I said 'INCREASE THE TAX on PROFITS' if you must;
or 'CHANGE THE RULES ON CGT';
BUT 'DO NOT TAX THE PURCHASE'.

Are you mentally challenged or something?
It's you that doesn't seem to get it that its A FINANCIAL PRODUCT EQUAL TO MONEY and NOT a GOODS or a SERVICE;
- And that what you're suggesting will destroy the economy, ffs.

- Not only that, its double dipping and blatent theft.

ANY company I choose to buy shares and invest in already paid GST on all its assets that I'm buying into.

What should I pay GST when buying a share of those assets that GST has already been paid on?

TAX THE PROFITS NOT THE DAMN PURCHASE.

Paul,

Given that you have not tried to defend your odious senators essentially means that you can't and are simply trying to say that the liberals are nearly as bad as the Greens.

Larissa Marcos Waters and Sarah Obeid Young have respectively spent $414k on office redecoration and $1m on travel in 6yrs while neither having a specific electorate to represent.

Neither have achieved anything in the senate to justify their wanton waste and ganGreen corruption

Shadow, I put up facts from the Department of Finance, you put up unsubstantiated hog wash from the Murdoch gutter press. Others can be the judge. I'll debate the merits of any Green politician against the political log, the Liberal Tony Pasin. I know I'm on a winner, the blokes useless, and hopefully he'll be shunted next election.

Well share trades should be taxed everywhere for the same reasons i have outlined here and why should not Australia be the first by making the rate small to start with, like they always do when they bring something new and ramp it up as time goes buy.

Is there some suggestion here that for the sole reason that no one would by shares and other financial instruments, on an Australian exchange because of the imposition of such a tax?

Paul,

All the figures I posted were from the dept of finance, and you haven't contradicted them, neither have you given any justification for Pissy water's or Syph Hansen young's huge waste of taxpayer's money. Neither have you given any example of their achievements.

The greens simply have their snouts in the trough which is filled the taxpayers and the corrupt CFMEU

And... the 'Lead Balloon' award... wait for it... I am opening the envelope now...goes to,,,, SHADOW MINISTER!

For being shot down once more in the debate by Paul1405. SM to his eternal shame, tried to present clap trap from the totally unreliable Murdoch gutter press as evidence of wrong doing by the honest and virtuous Greens. To add insult to injury the devious SM also tried to claim it all come from the Department of Finance, since when did the Dept of Finance start publishing the 'Daily Telecrap'? Shadows only source of "news"!

And the polished turd goes Paul1405, for cocking it up yet again.

The figures of Syph Hansen Young's expenditure were in many papers incl the SMH. I challenged you to give me the figure for that tramp's expenditure since becoming a parasite (senator), and I guess that you found it and realising that you were WRONG, tried a silly attempt to bluster your way out of the hole you dug for yourself.

The greens have their snouts firmly in the trough.