'
It shouldn't surprise one that many are found in the churches especially the Catholic Church.'

yep and now Flo that most kids are not in church the Paedophiles are found in every other part of society. Strange that.

I recently re-read Paul Collins's book, "Believers:
Does Australian Catholicism have a future?" in which
Dr Collins tells us that church lawyer and former
Sydney Auxilliary Bishop Geoffrey Robinson stated that:

"I believe that the Catholic church is in a prison...
It constructed the prison for itself, locked itself
in and threw away the key. That prison is the prison
of not being able to be wrong... Far too often the
Catholic church believed that it had such a level of
divine guidance that it did not need the right to be
wrong...even when clear evidence emerges that earlier
decisions were conditioned by their own time and that
the arguments for them are not as strong as they were
once thought to be."

Collins tells us that Robinson was speaking within the
context of sexual abuse, but his comments have a wider
resonance. This imprisonment in the past has been
reinforced by the doctrine of infallibility, which
also conveys a sense that the church can never be wrong.
It is precisely this that the church needs to confront.

In his book, "No Set Agenda," Dr Collins wrote that
Catholicism was not facing an external crisis, but a loss
of confidence and self-identity. The core of the problem
was that the Catholic church had become lethargic and
passionless, it had lost its sense of direction...It had
turned in on itself.

Collins argued that Catholicism in the early 1990s had
entered a decisive period when hard choices
would have to be made for survival and when far reaching
decisions about the church's tranjectory in Australian
society had to be taken.

But as Collins tells us -
clearly nobody with any real influence was listening

Flo, "I have no sympathy for the fact still can't take responsibility for the way he acted, was a part of the culture"

Yes, that is right, the culture of any organisation is set from the top and Pell as the RC CEO in Australia must ultimately take the responsibility. I am surprised he hasn't removed himself from office.

Pell should have had processes in place to ensure that such practices, crimes, did not occur and where they did, the complaint and communication lines were open and encouraged reports that would be taken seriously.

The only acceptable decision for any CEO would have been to immediately refer the matter to the police. Any internal action must be see as intent to hide or minimise the offence and destroy the evidence trail.

I suspect in the RC church the problem extends to Rome, has historical roots and is deeply imbedded in the culture overall. There must be compelling reasons why no-one appealed to Rome and if they did, why no action was taken.

Returning to the BBC example and Saville (and perhaps others) it would not be as simple as 'just' Jimmy Saville. There is damn good reason to suspect that the kiddy fiddling problem extends far beyond and survives, most likely including those who could have acted and been resolute in the process of discovery but did nothing. They should have reported to police and are now saying they didn't really see anything at all. Bollocks to them!

Criminals fear discovery first of all. The police are the correct and only authority with the investigative powers and skills.

The very best way to deter, discover and disrupt the grots in organisations is for there to be an insistence on accountability from the CEO down. Part of that is a values statement of course and regular, random comprehensive audits by independents. It is easy for managers, staff too, to escape responsibility where the CEO and Board (and churches have similar roles) are avoiding their fiduciary responsibilities and most likely abusing the power and the assets of the organisation themselves.

Flo, I am so sorry to read of your abuse as a child. You are right of course in saying that celibacy is not a cause of paedophilia, and they are present in all organizations schools and sports etc, wherever they think they can gain access to kids.

The Catholic Church is no more likely to have more paedophiles in their ranks than any other church or organization, but maybe they were involved with more schools and orphanages etc than most other churches over the years?
I agree that the CEO's of the offending groups need to be more accountable for the actions of their employees, and for any inaction of the group to stop the abuse.

However, the fact remains that these disgusting paedophiles will find kids wherever they can, and if it isn't in sporting, scouts groups, church groups or schools, then it is more likely online now. Unfortunately the sexual abuse of kids in their own homes, or close by, and by people they trust, remains one of the most common places for paedophile activity.

Pedophilia in the Australian Catholic Church was/is systemic, as it was in the church world wide. What has been exposed in Australia is the tip of the iceberg, many instances of criminal behavior by clergy has never, and most likely never will be, reported. Today this past is a dark secret only known to the many victims, as children most victims were unable, or unwilling, to report abuse, by Father, by Brother, for fear of retribution. As adults many still have great difficulty reconciling the past, and would much prefer to "put it behind them" if they can.
When pedophilia was exposed, the church had a clear policy, and a clear procedure in place. The unwritten policy was first and foremost to protect "the good name of the church", by the prevention of scandal, and the procedure was simple, act quickly to move the offender elsewhere, out of harms way so to speak. Those in the middle and top levels of authority in the Church, were well aware of this unwritten procedure, move the offender elsewhere as quickly as possible to prevent scandal. Those in authority did not have to ask what to do, they knew instinctively what to do, it was common practice! This action was often rationalised by church authority with the belief the behavior of rough clergy was nothing more than a momentary lapse, possibly caused by overwork, or some low point in their life etc, and with the grace of god it would soon be rectified. Pell to say he was not in the loop on this is preposterous,

Suse,

So, I don't have personal knowledge about Pell, but you do! You are an arrogant and stupid woman: all mouth and no brain, riddled with hatred and fear. In the time now spoken of, people kept sexual abuse quiet; swept it under the carpet. You and that other harridin are merely ignorant bigots. You just go with the mob. You have no knowlege of anything but howl down those who do. You are too stupid to waste time on.