I came across this subject on the web and thought
it might be fun to discuss - and a bit of a change
having just celebrated Australia Day recently.

The article stated that:

"From film and Television to Pop Culture, Politics and
Sport, Australian history is full of many fine examples
of iconic bogans. They're as Australian as meat pies,
Vegemite, the great Holden uts, AFL, a cold beer on a
hot day, and the Tall Poppy Syndrome."

"While it isn't always easy to precisely define one
we all know one when we see one."

Or for that matter - read their posts on this forum.

Some of my favourites are:

Legendary cricketer - Shane Warne.
Leopard undies wearing - AFL - Warren Cooper.
Foxy Morons - Kath and Kim
Infamous sisters - Schapelle and Mercedes Corby.
Phone thrower tracky-dack wearing Hollywood Star -
Russell Crowe.
Politician - Jacqui Lambi.
One Nation Leader - Pauline Hanson.
Former PM - Tony Abbott.

Who are yours?

Tony Abbott is not in any way a bogan.

To be a bogan:
• you have to be born in Australia (which also rules out Russell Crowe)
• you have to be uncultured (or at least not have a preference for the things traditionally perceived as culturally sophisticated).
• you have to be from a privileged background. If you're a rich bogan it's because you've worked for the money (or struck it lucky when already a bogan).

Bogans generally live in country areas, non coastal outer suburbs, the Gold Coast, Newcastle and the Illawarra. Few live anywhere near Sydney's Northern Beaches.

Russell Crowe is not a bogan and neither is Tony Abbott. They're still dicks.

My favourite bogan is the Uberbogan: Warwick Capper. If anybody can find me a bogan more bogan than our Warwick, I'll eat my hat.

Joanne Capper?

None of the people on that list are "Bogans", the word is a racial slur akin to the U.S term "White Trash" and the cast of Struggle Street which aired on SBS most closely represent that demographic.
I seriously doubt people like Foxy and Aidan have ever spent much time with people from the marginalised White underclass, bourgeois use of the term Bogan is just punching downward, class antagonism if you will.
It's a shaming word and a shameful tag to be given among the people I mix with, many of whom naively think that they can rise above their circumstances and that this is still a society which allows social mobility.

None of the people on that list, Jay? That's an extraordinary claim! In what way is Jacqui Lambi not a bogan?

The word "bogan" is cultural not racial, and to say it's a slur is an oversimplification. It can be used as a slur, and certainly has (most famously by Kylie Mole; also allegedly by Kevin Rudd to describe Julia Gillard even though she doesn't properly qualify). But it's not usually intended as a slur (and certainly not punching, downwards or otherwise), and plenty of people do self identify as bogans. It's not a shameful tag, and those who are ashamed to be known as bogans generally aren't bogans.

The cast of Struggle Street are part of the bogan demographic, but not all bogans are poor. And your serious doubts are just idle speculation, not based on a shred of evidence.

From my perspective everyone on The Forum except me comes across as being a bogan. Reason why I cannot be described as a bogan is because I am one of the most educated people in Australia, which definitely sets me apart from the rest of you.

Dear Jay,

I grew up in the Western Suburbs of Sydney -
where Bogans were the norm.
It was through completing tertiary education
that enabled me to move out of the area.
So, social mobility is possible.

Here's a few more bogans to mull over:

1) Chop Chop - the late Mark Chopper Read.

2) Party boy - every neighbour's worst nightmare
Corey Worthington.
Although I've heard that he's now married and changed
his persona.

3) Mulletman - memorable 90s bogan - Poida.

4) Controversial former NRL player - Todd Carney.

Oh lighten up JoM!
No one is having a serious go at your fave white people.
It makes a change from the usual Muslim, gay, asylum seeker, refugee, foreigner ,black, Chinese and femanist bashing that occurs on this forum ad nauseum.

I had to laugh when I noted Tony Abbott at the bottom of your list though Foxy :)
I agree though :)
There is just something very basic about the man...

Bogan-ish people I can think of includes just about all of the NRL players, and that boxer Anthony Mundine and other boxers, many professional darts players and their fans I see on TV televised tournaments,
'Sir' Les Paterson, and yes both of the Cappers.

Mr Opinion

'Reason why I cannot be described as a bogan is because I am one of the most educated people in Australia, which definitely sets me apart from the rest of you.'

you seem to get brainwashed confused with education. Don't forget Rudd could speak Mandarin and proved to be an economic vandal.

Dear runner,

Kevin Rudd's educational background is absolutely nothing compared with mine.

Mr Opinion,

If you're so educated then why do you make such stupid claims?

_____________________________________________________________________________

runner,

Far from being an economic vandal, Rudd kept Australia out of recession during the GFC.

Dear Mr Opinion,

That is impressive. :-)

Dear Aidan,

I'm sorry you have difficulty in grasping the meaning behind what I say. I think the reason is because we come from opposite poles of the educational spectrum.

Here's something to make you smile:

http://www.standard.net.au/story/3347500/the-big-bogan-joins-australias-big-list-photos/

Land rights for gay bogans, eh Jay?

//It's a shaming word and a shameful tag to be given among the people I mix with, many of whom naively think that they can rise above their circumstances and that this is still a society which allows social mobility.//

The term bogan has nothing to do with socio-economic circumstances, it's about attitude. And whilst it may be difficult (but not impossible) for the poor to climb the socio-economic ladder it is really easy to not be a bogan.

Here is my foolproof 5 point plan to Not Be A Bogan:

* Don't read the Daily Terrorgraph, it's a bogan rag. Read some classic literature instead: I recommend H.P. Lovecraft, H.G. Wells, Gulliver's Travels or the Sherlock Holmes stories. At the very least read Harry Potter. This is still possible when you're poor and get all your books and newspapers for free at the library.
* Don't watch football, it's a bogan sport. Watch science documentaries or Dr Who instead. They're more entertaining anyway. This is still possible when you're poor and can only afford free-to-air TV.
* Don't listen to Kyle Sandilands or other bogan radio presenters. Listen to ABC Classic FM and BBC podcasts instead. The ABC is free if you have a wireless; you need the interweb for the BBC.
* If you want a cheap feed, try cooking a pasta bake or a stir-fry instead of having a chiko roll, scallops, beer and chips. I found during my student years that whilst chips and bread was cheap and delicious, pasta and sauce was even cheaper. A rice based diet might be cheaper still, but I can't stand the stuff.
* Don't attend 'Reclaim Australia' rallies. Non-attendance is obviously cheaper than fuel costs/fares, and that time can be better devoted to reading more classic literature.

Does Bon Scott count as a bogan? He personified the good parts of old Australia. He seemed quite unpretentious in an era when the rock star persona was well established.

Dear Mr Opinion,

"I'm sorry you have difficulty in grasping the meaning behind what I say."
There's no need to be sorry for that, as I generally don't have any difficulty whatsoever grasping the meaning behind what you say. On the rare occasions where there's an exception I've alerted you to it.

What you should apologise for is failing to grasp the flaws in your own arguments. And for assuming the fault lies with me!

"I think the reason is because we come from opposite poles of the educational spectrum."
Well I suppose my having a civil engineering degree could be the reason, or at least part of the reason, why I base my opinions on evidence rather than basing it on assumptions and ignoring evidence.

But I'm curious as to what you consider is the opposite pole of the educational spectrum from a civil engineering degree is?

___________________________________________________________________________________

benk,

Bon Scott didn't fully qualify as a bogan because he was born in Scotland. But ACDC is certainly a bogan band.

Oh no, I would never call Bon Scott a Bogan! He was a musical genius, and no less :)

Aiden, I doubt that even if Mr. Opinion was actually an illiterate road worker he would tell you. If I was him I would say I was actually a neurosurgeon, to try and trump your civil engineer education :)

We can all say what we want to really, as we are all using pseudonyms.
Some have been caught telling obvious porky pies though, and I enjoy those times...

Bogans?

Let's start with politicians
Gough Whitlam,
Hawke,
Rudd,
Gillard,
Shorten,
Palmer,
Merkel,
Sipras,
Next Union officials
CFMEU pretty much everyone,
AWU same
MWU, Joining with the CFMEU, say no more,
Sportsmen,
Everyone in the NRL
I could go on.

My favourite Bogans are the people of Bogan Gate in NSW.

They are the only ones to whom the term may be applied and it is geographical only; to use it in a pejorative context to describe members of a lower social or linguistic strata is a gratuitous insult to the good people of Bogan Gate, all 300 or so of them.

Shadow,
So basically any middle class person with an income over 80 thousand is a Bogan.

Dear Shadow Minister,

There's a very interesting book written
by David Nichols, "The Bogan Delusion,"
it dispels the myths concerning bogans.
You just might enjoy it

Would any of you classify Molly Meldrum
as a bogan?

What about Paul Fenech?

Dear Aidan,

My first degree was in mechanical engineering. It's only a vocational degree, not a scholarly degree. It's like doing law, architecture, business, etc.: you only do it to get a job. It's what I call a trade degree. The really interesting stuff is found in Arts and Sciences. That's why I went on to do separate degrees in history, anthropology and sociology. So I guess I'm with you on one end of the educational spectrum but light years from you on the other end.

I'm not entirely sure what a Bogan is? Neither is it listed in the Oxford English Dictionary. Therefore, due to my previous occupation, and the innumerable deprecatory names I've been called, I guess it follows that I'm indeed a Bogan, for better or worse?

Dear O Sung Wu,

I doubt very much whether you're a bogan.

A bogan we're told is someone who's into mullets, thongs,
ugg boots,flannelettes, tight jeans, a love of Oz Rock,
and home-made tattoos.

Supposedly it's someone who's poorly educated and vulgar.

That as I see it - is not you.

Hi Foxy, yes you described a Bogan well, but I would add that they are also someone who speaks with a very broad Aussie accent, peppered liberally with a variety of swear words in any company, and any clothing they wear is halfway down their backside, with much midriff and chest showing!

I don't think Molly Meldrum is a Bogan because I doubt I have ever heard of a gay Bogan, but maybe others have?
Jeff Fenech is one for sure...I think many boxers would be, as bogans are well known to enjoy the odd scrap or three...

Dear Suse,

Thanks. You're probably right about
Molly. His sexual orientation didn't
even occur to me - because he sort of
fitted the other categories.

Here's how Wikipedia defines bogans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan

They must be great people. One was recently Australian of the year for god's sake.

//I'm not entirely sure what a Bogan is? Neither is it listed in the Oxford English Dictionary//

Actually, turns out it is. It has two definitions: the familiar Australian one, and a Canadian one which meaning a small sluggish creek. You learn something new every day. The second definition may provide some clue as to why the Bogan River goes by that name. I assume that the town Bogan Gate is named after the river.

I'm not sure if the following three qualify as bogans, they may only be ferals, there is a slight difference.

Scene; Bus Stop 10.30am a Tuesday morning, a work day.

Characters; Female aged about 35 looked 50, dressed in dirty flowery bloomer pants, mobile phone in hand. 1st male big strong looking about 35 front teeth missing, sweety unshaven, can of beer in hand. 2nd Male sitting on seat, weedy, sickly looking, most teeth missing unshaven, dressed in dirty tracky-dacks mobile and can of beer in hand. And me causal bus commuter.

Conversation'

Female: looks at timetable (bus about 5 mins late), "Where's the f#$& BUS!

1st Male; "I don't F'n know.
Female; (Wonders out into middle of busy road) "Where's that F&^# BUS!
1st Male; Shut up! Its not like yah got a job to go to, shut up, or I'll make ya walk to the next stop.
Female; Yah made me walk from the pub to here, sh^% face! I want a fag, got any fags?
1st Male: Nah!, anyway ya can't smoke at a bus stop, its the law.
Female; F%$& the law, what about you Grub, any fags?
2nd Male; Nah, F OFF!
Female; I wanna make a call, got no F'n credit!

The bus came, they pushed in front, jumped on, no ticket, ran down the back and sat down, talked loudly until they got off at the same stop as me. Darted across the road, into another pub!

Are these people bogans or ferals, I know they are losers, what are these people.

I'm not sure why there is confusion as to what a bogan is. Some of it seems deliberate.

The Oxford dictionary defines a bogan as, "An uncouth or unsophisticated person regarded as being of low social status". (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bogan)

When I think of a bogan, I think of your typical working-class, beer-drinking, fast-car-loving, ute-driving, sports-watching guy who's not real bright but is a bit of a handy man around the house and swears like a trooper.

Dear Paul1405,

The people you are describing are drug addicts and no-hopers.

As a sociologist, the simplest definition of a bogan I can offer for your consideration is that of the American hillbilly. I think there are lots of similarities between the Australian bogan and the American hillbilly. In fact it begs the question: Is the Australian bogan just another hillbilly?

Dear Hassie,

You seem to infer that Bogans are the Best
Australia has to offer?

Really?

//As a sociologist, the simplest definition of a bogan I can offer for your consideration is that of the American hillbilly. I think there are lots of similarities between the Australian bogan and the American hillbilly. In fact it begs the question: Is the Australian bogan just another hillbilly?//

Hillbillies come from rural areas, whereas your bogan can be rural or urban. I would argue that urban bogans more closely resemble the English chav than they do the hillbilly.

I don't know how accurate this link still is:

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/lucky-country-or-a-nation-of-bogans/story-e6frfq80-12265220

I prefer to think it's a small minority.

Dear Toni Lavis,

I copied the following from wiki:

The Oxford English Dictionary defines "chav" as an informal British derogatory, meaning "a young lower-class person who displays brash and loutish behaviour and wears real or imitation designer clothes".

I don't think this is similar to the Australian bogan. Bogans can be young and old and the ones I've seen don't wear designer clothes (real or imitation).

As a sociologist I think bogan (or should we say boganism) is a sub-cultural category at the level of class but is not located with age-grade associations. What's your sociological or anthropological perspective on this?

My apologies folks, I stuffed up with the
link I gave in my previous post. I tried
several time - and I still can't do it.

I suggest that you try under the title:

"Lucky country or a nation of bogans."

Sorry.

Foxy, "Dear Hassie,

You seem to infer that Bogans are the Best
Australia has to offer?"

No Foxy, just a reference to the strange selections some faceless people make in choosing the Australian of the year.

I guess your bogan, & my feral are pretty similar. We had a family of ferals down the road until recently.

Removal house delivered, but no plumbing ever done, so no toilet or running water. The money came from compensation, when the drunken father wandered into the path of a car. Mum dad, & 3 kids in early 20s. None ever worked except for occasional cash in hand for a day or two.

Girl at 20 had 3 kids each with different fathers. She was moved to a commission house by welfare, worried for kids in the squaller. This partly explains my objection to public housing.

Ignored council demands to move out of house until made fit to inhabit. Ignored council demands to remove the 30 or so broken cars around the place. Fortunately new owners bulldozed the lot.

Are these bogan, or are hard working, hard playing working class people, who don't conform to others ideas of genteel society what are referred to as bogans? Just where do red necks come into the picture?

I really have no idea, having never got past the feral description.

Dear Hassie,

Gosh, you live and learn something every day on
the forum. I grew up in the Western suburbs of
Sydney and suburbia was full of working-class
people. However, our neighbours were not "ferals,"
or drunks or dole bludgers. They all worked hard,
and were great people. Their kids worked hard as well.
There were a few girls who did get married but they
ended up marrying the blokes

john singleton aka "singo"

The beach culture and love of thongs and ugg boots contributes
To the bogan image.

A huge percentage of Aussies especially in the tropics
And warmer areas have a love affair with thongs.

You get on the plane in Melbourne and everyone is wearing sneakers and boots,
When you reach BRisbane airport everyone is in flip flops and open shoes, and
Thongs. Because it's too darn hot to wear closed in shoes

The difference between a bogan and a normal Aussie in thiongs is the normal
Ozzie will change into a pair of dressy shoes for a dress up occasion,the bogan
Doesn't see the need to.

There are different types of bogans
The worst type of Aussie bogan lives in unemployed welfare areas
seem to lack intelligence and knowing how to behave
Appropriately in polite situations. The fact that they don't have a lot of money
Causes them to wear cheap scruffy clothing.
The are noisy, drink and smoke a lot and swear a lot.
Lack of class seems to sum them up
They also often lack a proper upbringing.

The second type of bogan is an entirely different kettle of fish.
He is a big tough Aussie working man, Tradies, truckies, etc.
They work hard, so they don't wear suits and dress shoes to
Work.
They often bring in heaps of money, plus they can fix anything
Around the house.
They don't care for fussy effeminate dressing or mixing with
High society types.
They often drive big trucks with bull bars, especially in the outback,
Or Darwin.
They are real men, and don't put much value in social fancy stuff

The 3rd type of Aussie bogan is the computer nerd,
Some of whom are millionaires from apps they have invented.
They wear their favourite old pair of long shorts, sandals
Or thongs and their hair tied back in a pony tail.

In summary I think a bogan is probably someone who doesn't conform
To the expectations of nice society

Hasbeen,

I have checked the list of most recent Australian of the year,
David Morrison, Rosie Batty, Adam Goodes, Ita Buttrose, Geoffery Rush.
Now which one is the bogan?

The Colonel Klink type, the bleeding heart, the footy baller, the old chook with the dirty mag, or the poofy actor.

Just asking.

Foxy, Jay,

The definition of a bogan is:

"an uncouth or unsophisticated person, regarded as being of low social status"

Not "someone you don't like"

For example, Hawke drank like a fish and cheated repeatedly on his wife. You make up your mind.

John Singleton, Bob Hawke, Gina Rinehart, etc., are not bogans. But they would definitely qualify as the closest thing that a rich person can come to being a bogan.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I thought that most politicians drank like
fish and that quite a few had affairs.
It was the norm at that time.
Perhaps it still is?

Foxy, maybe Shadow has forgotten about Billy (Pants Down) Snedden Liberal Party leader.Billy was literal caught in a hotel room with his pants down, and his wife was nowhere in sight.

I went to school with a Kid named Billy Bogan ,real name, come to think of it, Billy was a Bogan, actually he was Billy Bogan Bogan. I didn't hear the term bogan until a plague of Bogong moths hit Sydney some years back, then people started to call each other bogan, or bogong, meaning nuance.

What about the folks from the Bogan Shire in western NSW. Are they Bogan's or simply Westies?

Dear Paul,

Shadow Minister must ahve also forgotten the following
politician's sex scandals.
There's been enough to go around from both parties:

2009 - SA Premier Mike Rann with a Parliamentary
Barmaid - Michelle Chantelois.

2009 - NSW Health Minister - John Della Bosca - his
six month affair with a 26 year old.

2008 - WA Liberal Opposition Leader - Troy Buswell -
sniffing chair of a Liberal Staffer.

2002 - Gareth Evans and Cheryl Kernot.

2002 Jim Cairns and Junie Morosi.

1999 - MP Bob Woods.

1996 - Noel Crichton - Browne.

1991 - Janet Powell

1987 - Billy Snedden.

1951 - Ben Chifly.

And the list goes on.

Well CHERFUL, I'm not much of a fan of thongs myself, but I can assure you of one thing.

The feet of those wearing thongs stink a hell of a lot less than those wearing sneakers, [aka sandshoes].

The stink of smelly feet, when getting on a plane in Melbourne is only exceeded by the stink of the even smellier pommy feet when getting on one in London.

I guess Melbourne folk & Londoners are so used to that stink, they just don't notice it. Which is most Bogan, thongs or stinking feet?

Interesting question Hasbeen.

I think thongs are most practical in the tropics.

I often wonder if my preference for thongs instead of shoes
Makes me In that respect a bogan.

I just don't have much patience with the whole try on shoes
Thing. I do however keep a couple of dressier pairs handy
When necessary. My women friends wear shoes much more often than
I do.