Dead wrong sonofgloin, if someone has a trade certificate, they must be capable of doing all the work that certificate entitles them to do. Any member of the public should be able to hire a qualified electrician, [or any tradesman], & be able to expect up to standard work from that tradesman. The same should go for plumbers or motor mechanics. They should not have to be able to oversee the work.

A complaint from my son, about defence force training is that most of their trained trades people are better than civy street people, but are not granted trade certificates, without civy work time. On ships navy electricians have to handle multiple sources of generation, run 415, 240 & 120 power circuits, both maintenance & new, but are not allowed to change a light switch on a shore base.

If it is good enough to expect those highly trained & competent people to play with mickey mouse house wiring people, to get their certificate, it is reasonable to expect those mickey mouse trained people to gain full competency before getting a ticket.

Thank you, you blokes, this has been a real education. Is it time for a shake-up of the entire apprenticeship system ? Should TAFE/VET etc. be replaced nation-wide ?

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Butch,

In 40 years of work in the metal industry I both seen and supervised many apprentices, all stating as fresh faced young boys, (the days before girls were given a go), and hopefully finishing up as first class tradesmen. All were given the best of training over 4 years, both on the job, and at tech, after 2 years they were moved from department to department to cover as many aspects of their trade as possible, they were paid well, not so much in the first couple of years, but later when the company had the option of taking them on, or letting them go, at the end of their time.

Roughly speaking, about a third turned out first class, a third competent, but nothing special, and the rest failures or useless, who mostly were forced out, or gave the trade away. The best were always encouraged to go to the Engineering Office, and go on, ex-tradies (like myself) always make the best Engineers, with a mix of the theory as well as the practical. I believe my trade background always made me a better Engineer, and just about everyday I would call on my practical experience in the trade to help me with engineering.

Sonofgloin I disagree with your view as the apprenticeship board is responsible for issuing the tickets for the trainers/assessors and the assessors are responsible for issuing the tickets for the apprentices. So the assessor in this case knowingly issues a certificate of completion when the person was not competent enough to be classed as a tradesperson.

The employer simply milked the system for what it was worth.

Yeah,ok Butch, you are at the coal face and I am not in this instance, there may be a dereliction of due diligence regarding the competence of this young guy. Although I have to add that the points I made regarding experience in a particular field of the trade is still valid.

Paul,

Spot on.
I spent a number of years at a major dockyard as a Metrologist and the apprentices there were treated as you describe, except that the pass rate was much higher, but that was probably more a reflection of initial selection than anything else.
Some of the apprentices went on to become seagoing Ships Engineers and others literally became Journeyman Tradesmen and seeking further experience went to Dockyards in the UK and Europe for a few years.