Okay Is Mise, so I overstated my case. Slightly.

My main contention is - and if you check my posting history, has always been - that the negatives that come with billions of people believing something without good reason (i.e. faith) outweigh the positives that MAY result from it. Just imagine a world where everyone actually cared about the truth of their beliefs. Not just that, but try thinking of something positive, that has resulted from faith, that could not have possibly come about through secular means. I’ve asked many Christians this question over the years and the best answer I’ve had so far was the threat of hell, but that’s not a positive thing given the drawbacks that accompany it. Anyway, I think my overstating of my position is forgivable given that faith is, by and large, still widely considered a virtue.

Thanks for informing me of your position on abortion, but that part of my post was a general comment to all. Sorry I didn’t make that more clear.

As for your question, I would have thought, from my pro-choice argument, that it would've been clear that it shouldn’t matter if the head can be seen. I’m happy to call a clump of cells a “child”. The bottom line is that no-one has the right to use someone else’s body to survive.

If the fetus is at an age where it is viable without the mother, then I would be less inclined to support abortion, but that’s why we have limits on the age at which one can abort a fetus.

An abortion is simply the termination of a pregnancy. Do you know what a late-term termination of a pregnancy is called? A ‘caesarian’, and the child gets to live.

AJ stop showing your ignorance; there is a difference between the termination of a pregnancy and the termination of the unborn.

Yuyutsu, What misinformation! Abraham did say NO! your statement "then I would agree with you that Abraham should have said "No"." David is fixated on the knife and the fire, and not the spared life of Isaac.

Dear Josephus,

Abraham should have said "No" when he was told by the evil God of the Bible to sacrifice his son. Yes, I am fixated at that because it is an evil thing to obey an unjust authority.

One should defy evil even when it comes from God.

AJ,

I agree that person has the right to use another's body to survive, unless that body be dead and its owner had given permission for parts of it to be used to benefit others, or if it is needed for emergency sustenance.
However in your book the fetus is not a person therefore your contention does not apply.

You don't think that the fetus is a child if the head is visible, what about a breech birth?
Would it be still abortion to stab upwards before the head emerged; how about a cesarian, would it still be abortion to kill the fetus when it is visible but still within the mother's body?

Insert 'no' before person in the above (I blush).

The one thing that all religions have in common is the requirement that devotees must have a blind faith in a god(s). and an unquestioning loyalty to the church, and by extension to the state as well. Through blind faith and unquestioning loyalty, control is maintained.
Josephus see a need for the instilling in children a sense of strong personal and moral values, I agree. However I believe that can be achieved without the overriding influence of religion.