The Forum > General Discussion > The Corbyn effect.
The Corbyn effect.
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Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 4:48:23 PM
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Dear Bazz,
You are correct. Governments in a capitalist society do not have control of the economy. Unemployment is endemic in a capitalist society since increased efficiency and automation will increase productivity so that fewer people are necessary to produce the same amount of goods. That is where government should came in. Repair of infrastructure, prevention of environmental degradation and other needs which the private sector does not have the drive to provide since no immediate profit is forthcoming should be a function of government. Return on funds spent in these areas will benefit the entire nation in the future. I am sure there are some in the major parties who realise this, but it is not a sexy thing to sell to the electorate. It would have the immediate benefit of reducing unemployment and the future benefit of producing a better Australia. Posted by david f, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 5:10:51 PM
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SM,
I kind of look forward to righties whipping out the excuses as to why the deficit went up by the "huge" amount that it did go up - in just two years. Those same righties completely ignore the GFC as if it was barely a blip on the global economic scene - as they merrily belt Labor around the ears for keeping the economy ticking along in the wake of it. But here we go: "As for why the deficit has increased: 1 Australia's biggest mining boom from 2010 to 2013 has collapsed, 2 Labor before leaving office introduced massive unfunded spending programs in the order of $20bn p.a. 3 Labor's debt was accumulating interest >$12bn p.a. 4 Even when it was clear that Labor's costings were wildly off, Labor and the greens blocked just about every savings measure." Lol!....c'mon SM, they would be the "spending programs" that the govt week in and week out takes credit for - especially the infrastructure ones. Every time one is completed or one is started a smiley faced member of govt turns up to take credit. One day, when I can be bothered. I'll dig up all the hundreds of things they cut that didn't need to be passed through parliament - loads of supposed savings there - although you wouldn't know it from Hockey's legacy. Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 5:12:11 PM
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David,
I have spent a fair amount of time in Scandinavia, and generally life is drab, expensive, and minutely controlled by big brother. Also the Scandinavian countries have the highest VAT in the world at 25%. Poirot, Labor wasted money on stupid ideologically driven pet projects that rendered very little benefit such as the BER, the cash splash etc. It spent way too much money for far too long. Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 5 November 2015 4:00:24 AM
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David F, I understand where you are coming from.
It is the same place as does Poirot & SM. It is the conventional picture from which our political parties including the greens produce their policies. Unfortunately that picture is obsolete. It is not unrelated that growth, world wide is declining on average. There are bumps up and down, but it is inevitable that growth cannot increase unless increased cheap energy is available. It is the end of growth. What is happening now was predicted in the 1980s & 1990s by many people and they also predicted the 2008 GFC and the big swings in price. Naturally they were not believed. Have a look at this link, it will show you that things have changed. http://oilprice.com/newsletters/free/opintel30102015 The rules have changed permanently, this is not just a period of financial difficulties, as you can see by Shell's tactics. Most major oil companies have very poor returns on their search and development capital expenditure. Having a loss of $6.1 billion is why Shell sold Woodside, they needed the cash to pay dividends. They are changing the whole direction of Shell. Until the governments of all colours understand what is happening we will splash around trying all the conventional solutions to no avail. Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 5 November 2015 7:24:05 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,
I have also spent time in Scandinavia. My wife was living in Norway when I met her. Of course life is drab when you don't have as much uncertainty as exists in Australia. Life is even more interesting when you live in Syria or the Congo. The arts and literature flourish in Scandinavia. Peace is drab and unexciting compared to war. I prefer that kind of drabness. However, you have pointed out a flaw. The VAT is too high there. The income tax there is high but should be higher. Dear Bazz, One problem is growth. No organism, no species, no economy can grow without limit. We would be better off if we could strike a balance - stabilise our population, distribute the world's goods more equitably. Much of the national product in many countries goes to provide for the armed services that is necessary to contend with the conflicts produced by growth. Inflation is the result of too much money chasing too few goods. Armed conflict is the result of too many people chasing too few resources. The Greens are not addressing the problem of growth they are as addicted to it as the major parties. http://www.votesustainable.org.au/ is addressing the problem. I saw a TV program recently on Saudi Arabia. Great buildings were rising out of the desert. The program mentioned that the aquifers which supply the water for these desert cities will be used up in ten years what happens then? I looked at the reference you mentioned. Energy resources are not unlimited. However, in the short term prices can crash with a momentary surplus. Posted by david f, Thursday, 5 November 2015 9:07:14 AM
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control of it.
For the sake of Poirot's sensitivity I will not go into why.
Except to say that governments also do not have control of the economy.