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Book Review:

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I'd like to see a discussion on what is said Rosie Batty's book. I bought the Kindle version online from Amazon and also went to her book launch at the National Library in Canberra. I'm interested in learning what makes her a "domestic violence expert"...I'm still trying to find the answer.
Posted by Roscop, Thursday, 1 October 2015 12:33:42 PM
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I doubt if you will ever get a university degree in DV. R Batty expertise comes from first hand knowledge and experience.

No doubt a lot happened before the relationship dissolved. It is hard to understand why he did what he did, that is where the mystery lies.
Posted by doog, Thursday, 1 October 2015 1:19:59 PM
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@doog "No doubt a lot happened before the relationship dissolved." The relationship dissolved before her son Luke was born. Batty wasn't living with Anderson at that time or at any time during the 11 or so years that followed. You could say a lot happened following the dissolution of the relationship and that was over Batty interfering with the father's relationship with and access to his son. Not long before the tragedy Batty got a court order(ex parte?) which really applied the screws to that. Anderson was already on a downward spiral being apparently unemployed, financially drained, living rough and suffering from gross humiliation, long running legal battles yet he had no criminal convictions to his name. Yes there were allegations a plenty.

" It is hard to understand why he did what he did,..." ...NO its not.
The whole business with Batty and the legal system had sent him mental. As Batty herself says she was winning. One thing is for sure...it didn't end up that way.

I suggest you read the book and then tell us where you think I'm wrong. When one reads the book it is easy to see how this was always going to come to a bad ending.
Posted by Roscop, Thursday, 1 October 2015 4:49:20 PM
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Ms. Batty is no expert as I have said in the main area of OLO. In fact, her presence on a committee and on the media is, to put it kindly, of no use whatever. She is probably a good woman, deserving of sympathy, who feels that she has something offer - or she has been made to think that by a hardened spin doctor touting a government "fix", which is never going to occur. I feel sorry for the woman; I think she is being exploited by cynical political forces who know damn well there is very little that can be done about domestic violence, aside from appropriate punishment when it is too late. I wasn't aware that there was a book, butI shall not be buying it. To me there is something a bit off about people going through a tragedy, then writing about it and talking about regularly on the media, and keeping it on the boil. I regard grief as private, to be shared with family and friends; not a public display leading to an Australian of the Year award. We have a not-very-bright in woman SA who was pre- selected for a safe seat, and is now in parliament, where she has been forgotten on the back bench, silent as the grave. Here qualifications - her son was killed by a king hit thug.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 1 October 2015 5:52:09 PM
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@ttbn, interesting to read your comment...just about all of it I agree with particularly where you say:

"To me there is something a bit off about people going through a tragedy, then writing about it and talking about regularly on the media, and keeping it on the boil."

Her book launch in the National Library theatrette was opened with television news footage from the fateful day, projected onto its big screen. The format of the occasion was Ms Batty seated one on one on-stage chatting for about an hour with a gushingly sympathetic Canberra Times newspaper journalist. At the end from an the audience of a few hundred people only about three questions got asked.
Posted by Roscop, Thursday, 1 October 2015 8:44:31 PM
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Roscop why on earth would you waste your money on a book you know you won't like, and then get all uptight about it?

I have no intention of reading it, as I read a review that said it is a sad, confronting book about the violent killing of a little boy by his father.

Everyone on this forum knows how you feel about divorced/separated women, family courts, domestic violence, and women in general, so you really didn't need to go through all this hysteria about a grieving mother and her book.

All I hope is that the mental health system will be improved as a result of this violent act.

She is making something positive happen out of an unspeakable tragedy, and most reasonable people would not begrudge her that.
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 1 October 2015 10:22:29 PM
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Suse, what do you mean "...a book I won't like..."? The book confirmed things I'd previously suspected and filled some gaps in my understanding of what took place over more than a 10 year period. I only bought the much cheaper ebook version from Amazon and the book launch only cost me $10 and I got that back in wine and cheese after the event lol.

In what way would an improved mental health system have made a difference in a case like Batty's?

"She is making something positive happen.." Well on that I'd have to agree...she has even got Mark Latham and Miranda Devine speaking about what she is doing.
Posted by Roscop, Thursday, 1 October 2015 11:36:55 PM
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Roscop, I am not interested in an argument over this, but all I know is an article I read stated that Luke's father had a diagnosed mental illness, so I assume, as he bashed his boy to death in front of all those people at the oval, that whatever treatment he had been prescribed either wasn't working or he wasn't taking it.

I was also thinking of the son of that Adelaide football coach who allegedly killed his father and injured his mother in another fatal domestic violence incident, who was also reported to have been suffering years of mental illness.
I just feel that the system has failed these people and indirectly led to the deaths of their relatives.

Not all domestic violence is caused by mental illness of course, but substance abuse can lead to drug or alcohol induced psychosis, which can lead to usually gentle people being violent...especially to their own family.
But hey, never let the truth get in the way of a good story aye?
Posted by Suseonline, Friday, 2 October 2015 1:20:57 AM
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Hi there SUSEONLINE...

I agree with much of what you've written, however we must be ever vigilant that we don't manufacture excuses for those individuals who've been arrested and subsequently convicted of Domestic Violence.

Far too often Defence Counsel seek to excuse their clients culpability for their criminality, rather than taking responsibility for their actions. Often down in the Court cells area, you'll hear many of these boofheads loudly exclaim '...I told the silly old bastard (Judge or Magistrate) me Dad used to give me a decent floggin' for nuthing that's where I learn't to hit other people to get me way ...' or similar language ?

While it might be argued, if these events 'did' actually occur during the offender's formative years, it still doesn't excuse his present culpability, rather it goes in some way to show mitigation perhaps ? As you'd be well aware there are many Defence Counsels who'll engage in some very unscrupulous practices to gain an acquittal for their client ? The more 'not guiltys' the more money they'll earn !

You quite rightly opined SUSEONLINE, that many years of substance abuse can adversely change a persons thinking and reasoning altogether, therefore leading to God knows what ? Everyday there're accounts in the media of terrible violence occasioned upon some poor bugger with the perpetrator on ICE or something as equally potent ? We're now living in a chemically induced environment, I think ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 2 October 2015 11:56:26 AM
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o sung wu, I had a different take on Suseonline's post. Not that there was any excusing of the crime but highlighting that there appears to have been plenty of indicators leading up to the crime that the offenders life was falling apart and his mental state was deteriating but there seem to be very limited options to deal with that due to significant cut backs to mental health services.

In that I agree. If you are already in financial trouble or on the edge of it then mental health services seem out of reach for many even if they are emotionally up to adding another thing into the mix.

I do have some views on the role that our legal system contributes to some peoples breakdown which have been expressed with some frequency on OLO and I'm not close enough to the detail in that specific case to have an opinion about it.

I do agree with the point that you make though. My take on it, there comes a point where the failings of upbringing, circumstance, education etc ar not an excuse for adult choices that harm others.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 2 October 2015 12:14:29 PM
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Hi there ROBERT...

In your third paragraph you mentioned the role the legal system has, in contributing to the mental breakdown that some people experience ? And I couldn't agree with you more.

All strata of our contemporary legal system, fails miserably many of those poor souls who suffer from mental illness ?

Commencing naturally with police; Many of whom are inadequately trained to satisfactorily interdict those with mental illness, as evidenced by several unfortunate police shootings over recent years. And generally are not (collectively) as empathetic or sympathetic as they could and should be ?

The next, and my favorite group - the Judiciary; It is they who are safely ensconced in their well insulated and salubrious legal chambers, therefore allowing them to drift into this 'ersatz' style of conviction, that it's only they who are entitled to exercise a certain level of academic arrogance, which permits them (as the perceived 'erudite' judiciary) to nurture this specious belief they're the sole repository of all wisdom and knowledge associated with 'setting right' most of society's ills. Unfortunately for many, they adjudicate accordingly ?

And finally the Correctional facilities (gaol, boob, 'the go slow'?) who's function it is, to protect the community from these mentally ill ne'er do wells, with the mandate to return them to society as a cured, rehabilitated individuals ? And we all know how well, the third strata of Justice, has succeeded ? ROBERT I could write a hundred pages and all I'd succeed in doing is to further bore you with this stuff !

Clearly the Justice system has let down many of the chronically, mentally ill people in our society. We can only hope governments of the future recognise these necessitous groupings and their urgent needs, and allocate more funding, in a real effort of making their lives a whole lot better ?
Posted by o sung wu, Friday, 2 October 2015 2:03:42 PM
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Well put o sung wu. In my view our systems are often run far too much as silos with little concern about the overall effectiveness of them to achieve what they are tasked with doing.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Friday, 2 October 2015 2:18:37 PM
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I totally agree O Sung Wu and RObert.
Where does society draw the line at allowing lawyers, judges etc allow violent criminals to use the excuses of their upbringing, or try to use insanity as a plea, to secure lighter sentences?
Hopefully, the justice system will change so that the punishment fits the crime, regardless of the criminals upbringing or family.
However, I think the mental health staff- especially psychiatrists should take more responsibility in trying to ensure their clients are safe to stay free in the community.
Do we always have to wait for murders to happen before we say we should have sectioned that patient?
Posted by Suseonline, Friday, 2 October 2015 3:38:20 PM
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//However, I think the mental health staff- especially psychiatrists should take more responsibility in trying to ensure their clients are safe to stay free in the community.//

As somebody who knows the mental health system quite well - as a patient - I can assure you all that clinicians are bound by statute to report to the police if they have reason to believe that their patients are likely to commit a violent or sexual crime. They are also required to report clients' admissions of prior guilt for offences in the same categories.

Crazy people will do crazy things, but it's difficult to predict when or what the nature of those crazy things will be.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 2 October 2015 11:56:53 PM
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Toni Lavis, as someone who works in the community health system, I can tell you that there is a mountain of paperwork and a truckload of problems to actually section someone (make them go involuntarily into a psych ward), and that often this decision is left too late simply because a psych doctor or nurse is either too busy, or just doesn't want the angst.
An unfortunate truth.

This Government needs to throw as much, if not more, money at mental health services as they do for general health services, because these people with violent psych problems are only going to get worse and increase greatly in numbers due to increasing drug problems.
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 3 October 2015 1:42:21 AM
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Suse,
Exactly, we recently had to report my brother who'd lapsed into violent psychosis to Police and the local mental health workers and while everyone was great and did their best to help there's not a lot they can do.
The Police were fantastic, sorted out restraining orders, made sure he went to court and the sergeant even gave us his mobile number to call if something happened on his days off.
Unfortunately with an adult their hands are tied until he commits a crime, in this case they drew up charges of threats to kill and destroy property but didn't book him, the thinking being that they could use the threat of charges to force my brother to go to his appointments with the psychiatrists and social workers.
He's behaving himself in that he's not threatening to burn my house down anymore but as far as I know he's not going to treatment.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 3 October 2015 7:45:29 AM
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I feel for you Jay of Melbourne, as I know exactly what you are going through.
My Sister-in-Law has a serious mental health issue and our family is badly affected by the fact she is given a 'choice' about where she goes when the Psych says he will section her unless she agrees to go voluntarily.

So naturally she chooses a lovely private psych ward where they all just sit around and hold hands together while the Psych nurses play pool!
My brother is ready for a psych ward himself and I keep coming up against brick walls with her psych staff because of 'privacy issues'.
The rest of my family have now given up and left my poor brother alone to deal with his wife....
Posted by Suseonline, Saturday, 3 October 2015 11:06:23 AM
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Rosie Battie is also an expert on offshore detention centres. See my post today on the domestic violence issue article 1st. October.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 3 October 2015 12:44:30 PM
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Hi JAY of MELBOURNE & SUSEONLINE...

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties confronting your brother with his mental illness, and for your family who have to share that burden with him ?

SUSEONLINE, do you remember the old 'Admission Centres' we had in our major Psychiatric Hospitals ? If police picked up an individual who clearly displayed aberrant behaviour or, had an intent to harm themselves, and who weren't detained for a crime, we could convey them to the 'Admission Centre' where they were subsequently assessed by a Psychiatrist, and held if necessary ?

Furthermore the State operated large public Psychiatric Hospitals, where many of the folk who were unable to live in the community were appropriately cared for, and safely housed. Regrettably, many of these poor buggers were ditched by their families because they didn't wish to shoulder the responsibility for their safety and ongoing care. Even young children, and youths were completely disavowed by their parents, because of their abnormal behaviour, their grotesque or daunting appearance or both, sadly ! I've taken such patients, to either Peat or Milson Islands situated in the Hawksbury River, near Brooklyn, not far from Sydney.

For a supposed, (insensitive) copper, it broke your heart to see these poor, often grossly deformed, mentally ill young, human beings completely abandoned by literally everybody ! And who's only crime was being born ! Yet the government of the day was more interested in throwing more of the tax payers money, at those criminal maggots out at Long Bay Gaol, rather than trying to do more for the profoundly mentally ill souls, ensconced in Institutions like Peat & Milson Islands.

Though out of sight and out of mind, the nursing staff thereat were brilliant, absolutely brilliant ! With the care and affection they constantly bestowed on those poor lonely souls interned there ! Yet their names never seemed to feature in any of the New Years Honours List ? That seemed to be the sole province of our much admired politicians and high ranking bureaucrats ?
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 3 October 2015 1:51:17 PM
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Roscop,

"...I'm interested in learning what makes her a "domestic violence expert"...I'm still trying to find the answer."

Can you direct me to the statement where Rosie Batty claims to be a "domestic violence expert"?

"Rosie Battie is also an expert on offshore detention centres...."

Can you direct me to the statement where Rosie Batty claims to be an "expert on offshore detention".

Thanks.

"She is making something positive happen.." Well on that I'd have to agree...she has even got Mark Latham and Miranda Devine speaking about what she is doing."

Latham and especially Devine appear to get their jollies in direct proportion to the amount of outrage they can engender in the community...they're a pair of attention seeking hacks who have nothing of substance to offer, and who's only spur is their own publicity. It's not surprising that that they target Batty.

Why target Batty, who's speaking up on domestic violence?

Climate scientist, Michael Mann, coined the phrase the "Serengeti Strategy" - where a high profile person is isolated from the herd and mercilessly targeted for derision by those with an axe to grind. He coined such a phrase in response to his own experience with climate deniers.

Those in hot pursuit of Rosie batty are engaging in precisely that strategy.
Posted by Poirot, Sunday, 4 October 2015 11:00:47 AM
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Poirot "Those in hot pursuit of Rosie batty are engaging in precisely that strategy."

Indeed, and they all have a case of 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' where their jealousy of someone else (especially a mere female who dares to speak out publicly) inflames their already poor opinions of themselves.

I guess I should feel sorry for people who have the need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, but I just can't.
Especially those who feel the need to put down someone like Rosie who has had her son bashed to death, in front of her and other kids, by his father in one of the worst domestic violence incidents I can imagine.
Posted by Suseonline, Sunday, 4 October 2015 11:48:12 AM
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@Poirot @Suseonline

The question asked is “Can you direct me to the statement where Rosie Batty claims to be a "domestic violence expert"?’” Yes I most certainly can…she declared herself an expert at the National Press Club whilst responding with a lot of mumbo jumbo, to this question:

Ron Aggs from Fairfax Media: “… to solve the whole problem… should we discuss equally violence by women against men; parent against child; child against parent; and within same-sex relationships? Shouldn’t we all be trying to address and report all violence within family relationships?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-03/national-press-club-rosie-batty/6519236

(Tip: Go to around the 58th minute into the video)
Posted by Roscop, Sunday, 4 October 2015 6:00:39 PM
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