I don't get what all the fuss is about with the recent leadership change from the libs, i mean, it's not like anyone here voted for TONY ABBOTT to be PM and, unlike the knifing that saw Julia Gillard dethrone Kevin Rudd, this was done above board and without the spitefulness and lies that covered Julia's hidden agenda.

Tony Abbott faced his party room about six months ago and was clearly advised that he had six months to right the ship, so as to say. He was given the six months, whereby his popularity declined even further, then he was voted out.

As opposed to the knifing method, Gillard on Rudd, whereby she gave her assurance the night before that he had her full support, only to knife him the very next day, Bronwyn Bishop, as a deputy should, advised Mr Abbott that his time had expired and that a challenge was imminent, which saw TA then do the honorable thing and call a ballot, all above board. The result being Mr Turnbull out polling Mr Abbott by the best part of 25%.

So although we didn't go through the highly publisized side show of the Rudd Gillard debacle, what's the big deal about changing an under performing leader I ask?

Surely it's about the best person for the job of best representing the people. Of cause the fall out from Labors position is that Bill Shoreton has been left wanting to say the least and has been exposed for the unpopular union thug he has always been. Imagine having him in the to job!

The word is Turnbull has sold his backside to become PM. Just like Toni did to become PM. Turnbull has sof ar hidden his true self.

He had to do this to get the CLP on side. It’s a matter of pleasing the CLP and at the same time pleasing the population of AU. If he can not make that work he will be a very short lived PM.

We will have more on Turnbull in 6 months time. Besides turnbull will not be himself until he is re engaged in a new ballot. So you are now in a very precarious situation, trying to satisfy both of your own sides. [ The liberals and the Conservatives.]

To much on way and not the other and you will be a square one

rehctub,

"... this was done above board and without the spitefulness and lies that covered Julia's hidden agenda."

Guffaw!

Read this:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-it-happened-inside-the-malcolm-turnbull-leadership-coup-20150918-gjq1d0.html?stb=twt

""He's burning the house down," Turnbull told supporters."

"On Wednesday night last week, for instance, two of the plotters, Mitch Fifield and Scott Ryan, both junior members of the Abbott executive, decided to appeal for Julie Bishop's help.

Together with a third junior, Michaelia Cash, they met Bishop last Thursday in Parliament House.....She would not agree to back any move against Abbott or to stand in her own right.

There was a challenger, willing to challenge, and he appeared to have the numbers. But there was no obvious mechanism, no catalyst. The house was burning but the conspirators, whose ranks also included James McGrath, Simon Birmingham, Arthur Sinodinos, Mal Brough, Wyatt Roy and Peter Hendy, needed something dramatic to bring on collapse.

Abbott had warnings aplenty. The most glaring was the February spill. More recently, his loyalists had been reporting to him and to his chief of staff, Peta Credlin, every suspicious move.

For instance, when one known Turnbull plotter, junior minister Simon Birmingham, was observed walking into the office of a backbench plotter, Arthur Sinodinos, some weeks ago. "Ministers never visit backbenchers in their offices!" exclaimed an Abbott acolyte with conspiratorial relish.

Cory Bernardi was suspicious when Malcolm Turnbull invited him to his office for tea.

"..."Abbott Planning Purge of Cabinet" read the page three headline. The prime minister was about to axe up to six ministers to get rid of dead wood, said the story, and it named the six.

The story cited an unnamed "senior source" and Malcolm Turnbull, like most of the government, immediately put a name to it: "It's a Credlin special!" he announced to MPs..."

All overthrows are cloak and dagger enterprises - this one was no different.

Don't attempt to paint it as a smooth transition of no particular account- it was clinical in the end, but only because of the dire situation.

Note also that an ungracious PM quickly became an ungracious ex-PM.

What an embarrassing two year debacle.

rehctub,

I also note that Mr "not spiteful" Abbott decided, once the chips were down that his "loyalty" to Hockey only went so far. He approached Morrison with an offer of the deputy leadership and the Treasurer's role if he would actively campaign for him.

He also threw Julie Bishop under a bus by petulantly throwing her position open along with his own in the spill.

There was no requirement that he do that.

In addition, he did not give a concession speech on the night - he did not speak to colleagues at all in the days after his demise.

He sent his resignation by "fax"! (unheard of) Prime Minsters always make the trip in person to the Governor General to hand in their resignation.

And his staff have taken days longer than usual to vacate the PMO.

In short, he acted in defeat just as we imagined he would - no ticker...

rehctub,

"... Bronwyn Bishop, as a deputy should, advised Mr Abbott that his time had expired and that a challenge was imminent..."

And by "Bronwyn", of course you mean "Julie".

But speaking of Bronwyn - let's just take this on board.

After Bronnie's demise as Speaker, she fronted up to the next sitting day and took her place on the back bench - not easy, but there she was.

Julia Gillard fronted up to the back bench on the next sitting day after her demise as leader - as did Kevin Rudd.

Not Tony Abbott.

He's been missing from parliament since he was deposed - and has given notice that he won't return until the next sitting.

What a shabby character.

It seems the only ones that know about Shortens ability to be PM are Abbott lovers. The voters decide that. Like we decided Toni was the best man for the job, but we were proved wrong and now he has been deposed by his own colleagues. All was well until the voters figured out that we were encouraged with lies.

The voice of the populous is reflected in the polls, and political parties take notice.

Of course Toni did not take his knifing at all graciously. You could say his attitude was ignorant, just like his time in office. We were warned about Toni by past leaders, but these things have to be tried.

Toni’s demise was quite messy as the reports are still coming in. You have unabated love for the man to be wanting to talk turkey at this early stage.

Turnbull says we live in exciting times, so lets see what he can do for us, with his new treasurer and a host of others still to be named. It is up to them to please the voters, or else they will be looking for a new job

rehctub,

You just HAD to set them of again. LOL

otb,

Yeah...it's one big Lol!, eh...

Noting all the Abbott fans around here are unusually quiet.

As one would be.

See ya anyway - I'm off elsewhere.

Well God forbid but I'm kind of with rehctub on this one, at least in this sense; we have through our democracy seen off leaders who have proven to have been either increasingly out of touch, unable to garner the full support of their party thus unable to continue running the country, or deemed hopelessly incompetent to run the same.

Rudd was the victim of the first, Gillard the first and second, and Abbott the third.

Now some might question the mechanism - non-electoral polling, but I submit it allowed the mood of the Australian people to push for changes and achieve changes in leadership.

Of course a proper election is the most desirable way of bringing about change but I shudder to thing what another year of Abbott would have wrought. Those on the other side may well think the same of Rudd or Gillard, that is politics.

The job of the party who wishes to hold the reins of power in our country is to present us with competent leadership. That is how our democracy works remember we do not directly elect our leaders. 30 bad to dire Newspolls express the sentiment of the nation and gave those within the party the tools to do their job.

Tony Windsor reflected on Q&A a few weeks ago just how many in his electorate had approached him and saying they thought he was wrong at the time to keep Abbott from the top job but they could see now he had made the right decision.

I am also thankful of a Senate that has kept the worst excesses of a far right Liberal leadership from doing the kind of damage to this nation they were gearing up to inflict.

Given certain caveats like the undue influence of the Murdoch press and money from big business on the whole the system is working folks and we should be grateful.

Well until labor wake up to themselves and dump Shoreten Turnbl will enjoy a free ride to the next election. If only labor also possessed some depth, who knows we might even have a contest because at the moment I would suggest it Turnbul 1st and daylight second.

Dont count your chickens flesher.

Turdbull has sold his soul to become PM. The reason people like him is because they think(wrongly) that he has some compassion and brains.
Unlike the previous idiotic coward.

They think he will act on climate change, the republic, same sex marriage, inequality, multinationals, fraudband etc etc.
I think they and you will be sorely disappointed.
Turnbull is in this for turnbull and no one else.
He will, even more than rabbott, do anything to keep his grasping claws on the levers of power.

All political assassinations are messy affairs and this one is no different.
Bishop has shown herself to be a liar(suprise suprise) and about as disloyal as you can get.
She is also, in the great tradition of gutless lieberal deputies, a coward. Why didnt she stand for leader?
Happyclapper morrison is under fire for his undermining and lack of support for his supposed "mate" rabbott.
Bernadi is going to quit.
The nationals have made it clear they will destroy the coalition if turnbull doesnt give them what they want.
All this with rabbott and eleventy sitting on the back benches saying "oh we would never leak or snipe at malcy". And we all know what that means coming from a liar like rabbott and a snout of a man like hokey.

I expect this will go down exactly the same as Rudd/Gillard and in a years time the lieberals polling, and turnbulls will be back where they have been since it became clear these lieing liars from the liars party only want to hurt us and our country.

rehctub and SteeleRedux,

While I glean your points, in that it's really "ho-hum" and the Coalition merely removed an under performing leader...and there's nothing to see here - I think it's more than that.

Abbott held the prime position for two years - two years of constant debacles.

It's much more than shifting a flawed leader sideways. We need to examine how a man of Abbott's calibre came to inhabit the office of Prime Minister at all.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tony-abbott-goes-topless-at-wild-farewell-party-after-being-ousted-by-new-pm-malcolm-turnbull/story-fni0cx12-1227535045623

"A TOPLESS Tony Abbott celebrated his freedom on the night of the leadership coup by dancing with his shirt off at a wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite.

Party goers have confirmed that the former Prime Minister partied on until the small hours of Tuesday morning and was still firing off text messages at 4:30am"

"The wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite included a marble coffee table getting smashed and staffers souveniring shards of marble for the history books."

Mr Abbott had declined to hold a press conference on the night he was rolled by Malcolm Turnbull, instead heading straight to the bar with his loyal staffers.

Treasurer Joe Hockey also hit the dance floor with assistant minister Jamie Briggs, who later surfaced in a wheelchair the next morning."

"However, it was an explanation that was widely derided by Liberal MPs and partygoers who insisted Mr Briggs was also “gyrating’’ earlier and fell over.

Several senior Liberal MPs also claimed a minister The Sunday Telegraph has chosen not to name had “spewed” in the ministerial wing."

I'll admit that I actually felt a tinge of sympathy for Abbott's position in the wake of his demise - before I read this story. One imagined him crushed and seeking quiet counsel from those closest to him, etc.

He "faxed" his resignation to the Governor General.

He refused to concede publicly on the night, and still hasn't congratulated Turnbull.

Now we know he was partying wildly while his close colleagues were trashing coffee tables.

That's the "calibre" of Abbott and his administration and their treatment of the office of Prime Minister.

Abbott could see himself being in the chair in 20 years time, throwing a few crumbs to the peasants gathered at his feet.

There is no doubt Julia was right calling him out as a misogynist. A backdated character locked in the 1800’s.

Turnbull has got it hard in front of him, no doubt there will be backlash after today’s realignment of loyalist’s . With more females to show the difference between him to Abbott.

Morrison, I do not like , he has serious faults being a hard Conservative and would be better off sitting beside Abbott. Hockey has got to go, he told to many of Abbott’s lies.

It will be an interesting 6 months to see if Turnbull can manage his party, and keep a peaceful atmosphere

I'm with you on Morrison, Doog.

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, and if I was Turnbull I wouldn't offer him anything. He is far too conservative, and belongs on the backbench. He is an Abbott disciple, yet ready to jump ship as soon as Abbott looked like losing the top job.
A slimy character.

I watched his interview with that 'shock jock' on radio the other day, and the way he carried on about not discussing his religion made me even more suspicious about him.
He had no problem using his religious beliefs when it suited him.
I would have thought these pollies would be well aware of how these shock jocks operate and the sorts of issues they will bring up, so why did Morrison agree to be interviewed by him?

Suze, I would suggest most of these interviews would have pre disclosed questions.

Poirot, perhaps you should look into writing books because either you're an insider, or you have a great imagination.

It's quite plain and simple to me, Abbott was warned about under performing and he was dropped.

Abbott under-performing, he spent all of his time watching his rear end, and had no option than to under-perform. Nothing is ever clear cut especially with Abbott not wanting to depart on any terms. Lots of blood was lost, there always is.

Morrison would knife Turnbull at a minutes notice, or less. He carries Turnbull’s biggest danger. As Abbott’s assassin I would not have him any where near.

Turnbull will have his hands full, making all sides in his party happy.

What do you guys think Mr Abbott is going to do
next?

Will he front up on the backbench at all, or will
he resign from Parliament altogether?

What does the future hold for him now?

Your thoughts please?

It’s is going to be very lonely on the backbench. Tony may throw in the towel and cause more disruption. Turnbull surely has sliced and diced.

The Coalition is a shell of it former self now, and unelected at that. The only thing Turnbull can,t get out of the way is Barnaby.
I do not think the Abbott voters are going to be happy at all. This is not what they voted for. We voted for a coalition full of promises and good will to all, and got an Abbott agenda instead.

Congratulations to Turnbull until further notice.

Given that Abbott has been hiding so far since his demise as a PM, I don't think he will stay on the backbench. I woulldn't if I was him.

Then again, he may well want to remain in parliament just to cause some disquiet amongst those former disciples of his who readily jumped ship last week.
Even though he finally did come out the next day and say he wouldn't cause any trouble for the Libs, just his being there in person would be enough.

It is too hard a decision to call I think Foxy!

I agree it is too hard a decision to call.

The man is so difficult to read.

I began to think that he suffered from a mild form
of epilepsy after watching his performance in front
of the press a few times where he was being asked
questions and he'd keep nodding his head well past
the normal time and didn't answer the journalist.
I used to think - he's had a fit - he's temporarily
blanked out for a few seconds. Then when the question
was asked again - he'd reply - to the surprised
journalist - "I've answered your question."
He hadn't.

Anyway, I was beginning to feel sorry for the man -
until I read Poirot's link taken from the Daily
Telegraph no less - that Mr Abbott had gone topless
at a wild party in the PM's Ministerial Suite with
his staffers (and Joe Hockey) after he'd been dumped
in place of Malcolm Turnbull. Apparently they all
partied up until 4.30am - and danced and carried on.
Smashing a marble table and collecting the shards
as momentos. MPs were vomiting - and the scene was
really something.

And here I was thinking the man would be all alone and
suffering. Silly me.

He faxed his resignation to the Governor General.
Which was unheard of.
He did not turn up in Parliament at all. Yet Mr Rudd,
Julia Gillard, and even Bronwyn Bishop all did
and faced the music. He gave a
speech many hours after the event. He did not congratulate
Mr Turnbull - and still hasn't.

That goes deeply to the character of this man.
No grace, no dignity. And he does in not way accept
responsibility for his own demise.

So who knows what he's capable of in the future.
A gracious loser he certainly is not!

Abbott, will sit on the backbench, at least until the next election. He still believed he is Australia's political "Messiah" and he's right, and everybody else is wrong. Abbott firmly believes in his ability, and has taken his dumping as simply an aberration, given time they will beg him to come back.
Fat chance!

The forums 'Usual Suspects' have gone to ground on this, leaving Butch to push the line that Abbott's demise, and Turnbull's ascendancy is simply nothing more than a changing of the guard, run of the mill, normal Liberal Party politics, business as usual. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Before the 2013 election I said Australia needed a dose of Abbott and his brand of conservatism, call it Abbottism, there were plenty in the Liberal Party at the time ready to go along with Tone and his crazy brand of conservatism! The reason i wanted Abbott for PM, was not that I believed Abbott and his cronies would be a success, I fully expected them to fail miserably, and indeed they have, beyond my wildest expectations, did not even last one term. After the failures of Labor, Australians needed to be reminded of how bad extreme conservatism (by our standards) can be. The blind faith some on here put in an Abbott government has proven to be totally unfounded.
Possibly, many of the forums arch conservatives are simply shell shocked at the rapid demise of their beloved Abbott and his marvelous government, and it has galvanized them into silence on the subject. I think equally they have a severe problem with Turnbull and his particular brand of conservatism. Instead of cheering from rafters, after all Turnbull is almost guaranteed success at the next election, it would take a stuff up of Abbott proportions to see Turnbull booted. Here is the rub, the extreme right, including those on this forum, can't stomach the Turnbull brand, and as one said, "at the next election I'll be voting informal." Boohoo fellas, fess up you got it wrong, and Abbott was a total failure. The best you can hope for now is to see the remnants of the Abbott rump, that have wormed their way in with Turnbull, one way or the other, exercise some influence on policy. We could discuss the merits, or lack of, of the new Turnbull regime, but give them time.

Finally; PO Joe, good to see you go!

Isn’t it a change to wake up in the morning and not find a new catastrophe waiting for everyone. To much of this and things will seem normal.

What a change of Ministers, can it all come together. A lot will depend on the liberal voters that were disappointed at the Abbott debacles. No doubt there will be a shift in the business supporters as well. Abbott’s blocking of media laws needs to be untangled.

No more Captains picks, and no more underhanded Abbott agenda’s, that we are not allowed to know about.

Turnbull needs to get investments rolling to pull us out of abbotafobia recession.

If liberal voters don’t like Turnbull they can always support the greens. That is a worthy cause. Lets not ever delve into Conservatism again.

Interesting days ahead, David Marr said this today about 'Faction Man' Willie Shorten,

"Shorten is now more vulnerable than ever to the fundamental charge the Coalition levels against him: that this is the man who brought down two prime ministers and lied about it on radio.

It’s going to get dirty. At the heart of the contest will be Shorten’s character. All the way to polling day, Australians will be invited to rake over every detail of his short life and hidden career"

The Emily's Listers left over from the Gillard government must be champing at the bit to knacker Willie and install another of their own. The war of the factions is to come.

Beach, as one of the forums most strident conservatives and a political animal of the extreme right, you were over the top with your sycophantic adulation of Abbott, while taking ever opportunity to denigrate the progressives, and in particular The Greens. Your feeble attempt to deflect the discussion away from the topic of the Abbott disaster, and only little Billy Shorten is in a word, pathetic! Why not simply fess up that like so many of your ilk, you got it wrong. We will forgive you.

'That goes deeply to the character of this man.
No grace, no dignity.' You have no idea what a reflection such rot has on you Foxy. Pathetic.

"That goes deeply to the character of this man.
No grace, no dignity.' You have no idea what a reflection such rot has on you Foxy. Pathetic."

No, runner...it's not pathetic. It's a realistic impression of Abbott's "character" - such as it is.

""A TOPLESS Tony Abbott celebrated his freedom on the night of the leadership coup by dancing with his shirt off at a wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite.

Party goers have confirmed that the former Prime Minister partied on until the small hours of Tuesday morning and was still firing off text messages at 4:30am"

"The wild party in the Prime Minister’s suite included a marble coffee table getting smashed and staffers souveniring shards of marble for the history books."

Mr Abbott had declined to hold a press conference on the night he was rolled by Malcolm Turnbull, instead heading straight to the bar with his loyal staffers."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tony-abbott-goes-topless-at-wild-farewell-party-after-being-ousted-by-new-pm-malcolm-turnbull/story-fni0cx12-1227535045623

Resigns by fax because it would seem, if he was still texting at 4:30 am the morning before, that he was in no condition to do the honourable thing and make the trip the Governor General in person later that morning.

That's the kind of thing Foxy is getting at.

He's trashed not only the "offices" of the Prime Minister, but also the "Office" of Prime Minister.

And it tells us a great deal about your own ethics, runner, that you believe that criticism of his behaviour before and after his dumping is "rot".

'And it tells us a great deal about your own ethics, runner, that you believe that criticism of his behaviour before and after his dumping is "rot".'

I dare say Poirot it just shows that regressives are nearly always about playing the man and not the principle. Here the backstabbers are maintaining Abbotts policies on of stopping the boats, mandatory detention, believing man made gw is cp and refusing a Parliamentry vote on perverted marriage. Regressives have shown whether they call themselves liberal, labour or anything else that personal gain will always win out over principle. Turnbull, Gillard and Rudd obviously hold the secularist dogma that the end justifies the means. I doubt whether it will all end well for Turnbull. At least he can join Gillard and Bishop in trying to spin their way into believing their treachery was for the nation! Regressives always find justification for the most disgusting behaviour and manage to do it with a smile.

Dear Poirot,

Once again Thanks for that very informative
link. I was quite taken back reading it.

Here's another interesting website that sums
things up rather well. An opinion piece
from The Australian no less, by Peter van Onselen:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/tony-abbott-was-a-political-player-who-tripped-himself/story-fn53lw5p-1227533868357

As for runner?

Sad case!

It would seem very few people on this Forum had a kind word to say of Tony ABBOTT ? I'll admit he probably wasn't one of our best PM's nor could he clearly articulate his position or his policies. In fact, none of his critics had a kind word for him at all.

Well I liked the bloke. Something I find intolerable though above many things in politics, is disloyalty while overtly professing to be a loyal supporter. It would appear now that Mr ABBOTT was prepared to shiv Mr HOCKEY in the back in order to save his leadership ? If this's true, it's also a low act ! You got something to say, say it to their face whatever the circumstances are. The police force is full of maggots who engage in such conduct, but soon or later circumstances prevail and one can often sort out such treachery, usually in the car park after an afternoon shift.

Anyway, it's just another nail in the virtuous and wholesome reputations of all our politicians. In my opinion they're amongst the lowest of any human group on earth. They've power, but do nothing to help those who need the most urgent help ! They're mendacious with a skill that would amaze even the most accomplished 'con man'. They deceive, dupe, and double cross with gay abandon. Moreover they regularly engage in corrupt (unconscionable) conduct, and when found out escape, seemingly with impunity ?

Yet it is they, who decide the very future of our country. Damn the lot of them !

runner,

You can wail all you like, but Abbott was a disaster - his party recognises that.

It's only the far right who are jumping up and down because their hero has just been punted into the stratosphere.

Whooooosh!....I did but see him passing by - and yet I'll laugh until I cry.

(No extra charge for the verse:)

o sung wu,

Yes, according to Morrison, Abbott - who is often praised for his loyalty - decided when the chips were down that Mr Hockey was expendable.

Seems the legend of Abbott's loyalty was a little overblown.

runner,

Can I just add that I glean a hypocritical note to your post above.

You write:

"I dare say Poirot it just shows that regressives are nearly always about playing the man and not the principle..."

After which, you go onto say:

"Turnbull, Gillard and Rudd obviously hold the secularist dogma that the end justifies the means.....At least he can join Gillard and Bishop in trying to spin their way into believing their treachery was for the nation!...."

My, my - if I didn't know better, I would think you are playing the man, not the principle.

Funny that!

Well said Poirot, although I doubt nasty little Runner will care a jot about what anyone else says about his hero Abbott, or his ancient holy views.

After all the ranting, raving and crowing from you when Gillard and Rudd were knifed Runner...well...right back at you!

I seriously doubt anyone at all could have done a worse job as PM than Abbott, so I feel more positive about our political future now than I have in years.
Bring it on.

OK, so Tony is not the true hard man he would like to be, & we need, but to go to another pretty boy is just stupidity.

Just to put this garbage in perspective, the last arrogant smooth talking pretty boy, for whom appearance is more important than substance, [remember the hair drier incident] was one Kevin Rudd.

Although some won't admit it to themselves, thinking folk know what a catastrophe Rudd was, & now we have damn near his clone. He may not have Rudd's fetching lock of hair draped carefully across his forehead, but the space behind that forehead is just as empty of anything useful.

Our grandkids are going to be still paying for our stupidity in electing Rudd, but you can bet they will curse our memory for making the same mistake again, with this clone, Turnbull.

Having seen what a disaster Obama is & Rudd was. We should have a ten foot high sign in front od every pooling station saying, "Even god can not protect you from empty headed orators. You must do it yourself".

Hasbeen,

"OK, so Tony is not the true hard man he would like to be..."

What's that supposed to mean?

He couldn't get his policies through because they were duds and/or his team apparently can't negotiate.

Abbott swaggered around as if he was a "hard man" - unfortunately he looked more like a "try-hard man"...which was the problem.

The Obama administration has lifted the US economy and US employment - after Georgie Dubya stuffed up everything in order to pay for his illegal war.

The Abbott administration was going down the same track. Australia's paltry 0.2% quarterly growth was only achieved because of increased defence spending, somewhere in the range of 40 odd billion.

Apart from a disastrous drop in consumer confidence, private investment and growth, here's what numpty Abbott and his colleagues have done to our bottom line:

Net govt debt is at $238.7 billion or 14.8% of GDP - up from $153.0 billion or 10.1% in June 2013.

Whadaya reckon, Hasbeen?

Hi Poirot,

Hassy, Runner and OTB are still shell shocked by the downfall of Fearless Leader and are likely to be more incoherent that usual. These guys are well known for posting verbal diarrhea on the forum. OTB with his paranoia rantings, Runner with his biblical clap trap and Hassy, well Hassy is just known for being, Hassy the incoherent.

Yes a truly Churchillian quote that one from Hassy.

"OK, so Tony is not the true hard man he would like to be..." What a profound statement is that one, more like gar gar nonsense.

Do you think Tone will shirt-front Turnbull any time soon? LOL.

Hasbeen, you think Rudd and Turnbull are 'pretty boys'?
Gee, I would hate to see the ugly ones in your eyes then!

As for brains, I would suggest that both Rudd and Turnbull have more brain power than all of us put together, however, Rudd had a nasty streak going on to add to his intelligence. Thus, he ended up showing his true colours, and lost favoritism.

Turnbull is yet to show us all his true colours as a PM, so I don't think it is fair to judge him yet really. You certainly didn't judge ol' Tones straight away like that did you?
Even when Tones knighted Prince Phillip, wore his budgie smugglers for all to see, and suggested we give all that paid parental leave money for rich mummies, you still looked at him with rose-colored glasses.

Obviously, even most of his own party saw through him in the end......

"wore his budgie smugglers for all to see" there is plenty to attack Abbott over without resorting to that sexist stuff.

I'm pretty sure you would be amongst those who are annoyed when female politicians are attacked on the basis of what they wear (or how they look). In the case of Abbott and his much maligned budgie smugglers they or something very similar is the correct attire for event swimming (and if a male prefers for any other activity where swimmers are accepted attire).

Regardless of his faults Abbott is very fit and the pictures I've seen of him in his budgie smugglers have typically been associated with swimming so what's the problem with been wearing budgie smugglers?

R0bert

Yes, I know how annoyed you must be with all those nasty feminists (and many others too) being affronted by seeing Tony posing in his budgie smugglers RObert, and it is good to see you stand up for the man.

However, anything anyone ever says about his brief swimming attire would surely pale into insignificance against the virtual plethora of snide remarks about the normal everyday attire of probably every female politician that ever was.

So no, I don't have a problem pointing out the ugly briefs he wore swimming, whether he is fit or not. We are all entitled to our opinions on the clothes other people wear, as was very clear with the constant commentary on Julia Gillards attire.
I was certainly not alone in my feelings about the briefs either, as it was mentioned a multitude of times by many manly journalists as well....

Dear Poirot,

I'm not sure I was making the case that the change of leadership was ho hum more that the will of the people had forced a change of leader without having to endure another year of his dysfunctional prime ministership.

As to how he got to power in the first place my take is that the serious hiding the Libs got when Rudd came to power, including Howard losing his seat, meant they were more happy to go with the Pitbull than the Dalmatian. Desperate times – desperate measures and all that. They needed him to knock down the door but once he got among the china he proceeded to wreak the joint.

Once ensconced Abbott cemented the right behind him and became too hard to easily shift. It took some seriously dire polling to make it happen. We really do need him to follow Rudd and Gillard out of politics. In a very real it will signal the end of a vicious and particularly nasty period in Australian politics.

I just watched Shorten on Q&A tonight. While I certainly don't think highly of the man he was so far ahead of Abbott it wasn't funny. Turnbull was going to be a different kettle of fish. I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw from Shorten this evening. He is still a long way from winning me over but it was a fair start.

I believe a sizable part of why he presented differently tonight can be attributable to Turnbull. The Abbott mimicking three word slogans where virtually non-existent and fulsome articulating of ideas and policies was much more at the fore.

Abbott's demise as leader has hopefully let our political discourse return to a less belligerent and more edifying tone.

For that we should thank him.

....I do not think the Abbott voters are going to be happy at all

Doog, the Abbott voters had lost faith in him already, myself included.

I'm always happy to admit when I'm wrong, the guy was a dud, he spent too much of his time worrying about minority groups with hidden agendas like the gay marriage brigade and spent too little time working on the big picture.

Suze.......Then again, he may well want to remain in parliament just to cause some disquiet amongst those former disciples ...

This is the liberals Suze, not the labor party.

Foxy, with all due respect you have had a lot of practice spotting poor leaders, you're a labor lover my dear and this gives you a huge advantage.

Paul, I lost faith in Abbott quite some time ago but the problem I saw was other than another leader from within, we had nothing because Shorten was, and still is, a dud!

Out of time for now.

"he (Abbott) spent too much of his time worrying about minority groups"

Yeah Butch, like the British royal family. Handing out a gong to that geriatric boffer, Prince Dill. The British royals represent 0.0000000000000001% of the worlds population, how more minority can you get! LOL.

SteeleRedux,

Well explained - thanks for that.

I didn't catch Shorten last night but caught may tweets on twitter who were praising his performance. That might seem normal because I follow a lot of lefties, however, in my experience, the left have been very critical of Shorten on twitter - and last night it was sounding far more positive.

I believe Abbott was the perfect attack dog for the Coalition when it was in Opposition. He and Credlin demolished their disunited opponents. My criticism of him and them is about their mendacity in misleading the electorate on the policies they would introduce upon taking govt. It's one thing to roll the govt and entirely another to "comprehensively" lie your way into power.

Running such a tight ship in Opposition didn't translate to good govt for Credlin. She alienated most of the back bench and a fair chunk of cabinet....leaving nothing but Abbott's "captain's calls and his wooden debacle strewn agenda.

Rehctub,

"I'm always happy to admit when I'm wrong, the guy was a dud, he spent too much of his time worrying about minority groups with hidden agendas like the gay marriage brigade and spent too little time working on the big picture."

Yes, he was dud, but it wasn't because he spent time on minority groups - except to attempt to sideline their issues. It wasn't because he spent too little time working on the bigger picture - it's because he was a wrecker - and if a wrecker lies his way into office and is stymied in his agenda, then there's nothing to do but stagger around blindly repeating stale mantra's and waving flags.

Bitter grapes are hanging low on the vine. Rectub has jumped ship but he made sure the water was shallow. Do your best to get over it. A new era has arrived, lets get some wind and solar going, and not worry about stinking coal, climate change is amongst us.

It took Hasbeen a while to surface, the shock must have been dramatic. One thing about these blokes they will never admit Abbott put on 110 billion in 2 years.

There are no worse factions than what reside in the ranks of liberalism. Abbott’s cabinet line up photograph will forever come to the surface of scrutiny. Our brush with Stalinism.

Co2 must demise and clean up the atmosphere. It is our long term benefit to back out some of mans destruction of the worlds environment. That is where we need leadership, and foresight, do we have the right man in power.

Indonesia is not comfortable at the moment, they may be infiltrated with enemies from Malaysia. We could see a war in our region.

Multi Billions of dollars ready and waiting to be spent, it only takes the right environment, and right words, to kick-start a mass of investment that has been delayed by Abbott’s idiotic backward ideas.

With Turnbull the days of guessing what the PM said is over, agree or disagree it will be clear. The only ones that are not happy with this change are the hard head Conservatives amongst the Liberals.

Dear Rehtub,

I am not a "Labor Lover," as you proclaim.
I come from a Liberal voting background
and I have voted for the Liberal party
in the past and recently in state elections.
What I do love and vote for - are policies
of substance. I like to see policy details.
I want leadership that can convince me
they have a plan as well as the capacity to
implement it. Three word slogans, broken promises,
are inflexibility - are a death knell.
Most voters want to see leaders
who inspire them - that the future will be better.

"Trust me" - is simple dogma and simply insisting
your policies are correct - is no longer enough
as the recent monotonous ghastly polls have showed.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I watched "Q&A," last night.

Bill Shorten was a pleasant surprise.
Although I still have some reservations.

The same applies with Mr Turnbull.

I think the next election will prove interesting.

"Trust me", said Tone, "Things could get worse!"

So I trusted Tone, and sure enough, THINGS GOT WORSE!

Can the Abbott lovers, and you know who you are, say Australia is a better plqace because of Abbott, two year and nothing. The bloke was not worth a cracker, and that goes for his mate 'Cocky' Joe Hockey as well.

Butch, don't feel too bad about getting it wrong, conservatives have a long history of getting it wrong.

Well you can say that I'm a Tony ABBOTT supporter ! Though I'm quite disappointed to see he was prepared to shiv Mr HOCKEY in the back to underpin his hold on leadership.

However, everybody who's ever met Mr Abbott has said how sincere and honourable he is (personally) ? By that comment, I realise I'm sticking my neck out for a decent flogging ? Be that as it may, I'm also a pragmatists, as such I understand that 'nice and fundamentally sincere' blokes, don't necessarily make a great politician, let alone a Prime Minister ? No doubt we'll see Mr TURNBELL spend a week every year with a remote Aboriginal community eh ?

For it's often said to be a good leader, one must have a bit of mongrel dog in them, and buckets of ego, clearly Mr ABBOTT didn't have either ? Whether Malcolm TURNBELL Esq. has, is yet to be seen ? Still he's well on the way to achieving those doubtful attributes, as evidenced by the merciless process in which he orchestrated, in less than thirty six hours, the political execution of his former leader !

To say I have a distinct aversion and suspicion of Mr TURNBELL, would be an understatement, whether he proves to be a great 'small L' Liberal PM, or a surreptitious Labour man, disguised as a conservative, we'll see ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

I found Mr Abbott to be an embarrassment.
To me he should never have been elected as PM.
As Tony Windsor stated -
Mr Abbott - simply was not up to that job.
Now Mr Abbott is no longer our problem but that
of the Liberal Party's.

Much as Turnbull exudes great charm and
persuasion, I still do have some reservations.
Yes, Mr Turnbull does come across
as sophisticated, urbane, erudite, classy, and so on.
(Most of which one commentator explained is basically
code for him having received the proper class training).

I guess we shall have to wait and see
what kind of PM he will make.

One would have thought that Labor's and Greens' association with unions like the CFMEU would be an embarrassing concern, but obviously not.

<Royal commission into trade union governance and corruption

Former CFMEU chief tells royal commission secret recording is accurate

David Hanna changes his evidence at royal commission and says he ‘got his thoughts together overnight’

A former union official at the centre of the trade unions royal commission has changed his evidence about a secret recording of a discussion about document shredding.

On Tuesday the former Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy union divisional president, David Hanna, confirmed the veracity of the recording that implicates the CFMEU in shredding documents needed for the inquiry.

Union dumped seven tonnes of papers after subpoena served, audio suggests..>

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/22/former-cfmeu-chief-tells-royal-commission-secret-recording-is-accurate

'I found Mr Abbott to be an embarrassment.' Oh yes Foxy and Rudd and Gillard where such examples of character. Your judge of character is atrocious.

Dear runner,

You Sir are in no position to judge anyone's
character when your own is lacking in the
very basics of decent behaviour.

Hi o sung wu,

I am sorry to say loyalty in politics only extends so far. Yes, if push came to shove Abbott would have been prepared to sacrifice Hockey at the alter of self preservation. Likewise Hockey would have turned on Abbott just as easily, unfortunately Hockey had made himself a 'No Friends Nigel' within the Liberal Party and was forced to stick with his "mate" Abbott as he had no other option.

Other than that unrepresentative swill the Nationals, people Turnbull is burdened with, due to the need to form a coalition to govern. Turnbull's ministry is mainly based on reward for support, with a few hard core conservatives thrown in to appease the ultra right of the party.

In a beach side interview today, Abbott could hardly contain his rage when the subject turned to Scott Morrison, a bloke Abbott believed was one of his most loyal henchmen, and sadly for Abbott his trust was well and truly misplaced, as it was with Bishop. Chris Payne had been paddling furiously away from the sinking ship for six months and in no way was he going to be sucked under when the ship finally went down.

If I wasn't so hard nosed about politics I could possibly have sympathy for Abbott, but nah, let him 'burn'.

Beach the deflector is at it again, can't fess up that his Abbott adulation was off the planet nonsense, he is desperately trying to deflect the discussion to a totally irrelevant topic. Nice try Beach, but you have failed again. Get one of your conspiracy theory's going and find out if Turnbull is a Fabian, or even worse, a fully paid up member of the CFMEU.

Dear Paul,

There's an excellent article by Chris Uhlmann giving
an analysis of what led to the demise of tony abbott.
And where will Malcolm Turnbull take us:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/analysis-what-led-to-the-demise-of-tony-abbott/6777070

Uhlmann tells us that from the victory speech of our
new Prime Minister if we were into 3 word slogans - the slogan
for Mr Malcolm Turnbull would -
"Hope not Nope!"

When analysing what went wrong with Mr Abbott's term in
the office of PM was the fact that Mr Abbott was not capable
of rising to the position. He used the same tactics in his
role as PM that he had used as Opposition leader -
"Oppose everything and propose nothing."

Christ's message of -
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
was not a dictum that Mr Abbott followed.

Mr Abbott was driven by a parody of that dictum coined
by another Catholic politician, James Curley, 3 time Boston
Mayor - "Do others, or they will do you."

The link is worth a read.
As Uhlmann points out when Mr Abbott won the Prime
Ministership - both he and the nation were the poorer for it.

What a load of rot Foxy, time and time again you came to the rescue of both Rudd and Gilard" this being despite their repeated stuff ups.

Doog, I haven't jumped ship, I just acknowledged that Abbott was a dud. As for Turnbul I will wait and see, but considering there's daylight between him and Shorten, there don't appear to be too many choices do there.

Hi Butch,

When did you realise Abbott was a dud, the bloke was considered a dud back in the 1990's when his name first came up as a possible future PM, and that was from insiders within the Liberal Party. He promised them he had improved so they gave him the gig, only to see him fail miserably. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Hi Foxy,

The ABC article is very much the truth. At the moment Turnbull is on his "honeymoon" and as such is loved by all, with a few notable exceptions on the forum and elsewhere. Soon he'll have to get down to business, and its not going to be easy when the acid is applied. Turnbull's personal agenda is very much that of a small "l" Liberal, and to those of the hard right within the party, and certainly to most of the National Party its not their agenda. I think Turnbull will try and keep the popularity going full steam and in that way silence the detractors within as he goes about making his personal agenda the national agenda. On economic issues Turnbull is a 'free marketeer' which naturally sits well with the conservative elements of business and politics, so no internal problems there, but on social issues the mans seen as a "red", a loose cannon, and those issues are going to prove much more difficult to carry, but as I said providing he keeps on side with the voters he can't loose the social debate. Turnbull knows Australia is ripe for change on gay marriage, short term, and with the demise of QEII the republican issue will be much easier to implement in the long term, as will be a number of other social issues that will surface as time goes on.

Butch Rudd and Gillard are old news. There is nothing you can do about the past, just like trying to back-out Abbott, it can’t be done. As far as recognizing, what about the 110 billion Toni put on the credit card, you seem to have a problem with recognition there.

You were told the best man for the coalition was Turnbull, but you would not take notice, and see now what a mess it has made. You should take more notice of those who know better.

Turnbull will have a fight on in getting the coalition factions working together, but if anyone can do it he has a good chance.

Bill Shorten is in the future, a willing contender, if Turnbull fails. It is up to the voters on the day that counts. All eyes are now on Mr Turnbull to perform and get Australia moving, we can’t survive on .2 growth. That is rock bottom. Try and have something good to say about your new leader. Butch.

Paul1405 and Fox are critics of the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption. What came of those appeals the union heavies were going to make against the Justice and to log-jam the Commission?

So it is only to be expected that they would be obsessed with sledging Tony Abbott.

Even while out of the picture Tony Abbott lives on for those who support union interference in Labor and Labor's dependence on big unions. Abbott may yet achieve what Ex-PM Kevin Rudd and other Labor notables who criticised the influence of union heavies and factions in Labor. At the very least, some of the union thugs are being shirt-fronted by a Royal Commission and being brought to heel in courts.

The mates of Labor and Greens,

<CFMEU ordered to pay Grocon $3.5m; fined for conduct on Brisbane worksite

AUSTRALIA’s biggest construction union is under siege amid a record $3.55m payout, a push for deregistration and damaging allegations including of unlawful conduct at a Brisbane worksite..

That payout could be dwarfed by a $28 million compensation fee being sought by Boral, while the ACCC also has its sights on the union over claims of restrictive work practices.

The CFMEU has also been fined $545,000 for unlawful, intimidating and coercive conduct on a Brisbane worksite where subcontractors and employees were called dogs and “scabby gay boys”.

In a scathing judgment the Federal Court found the union displayed “outrageous disregard” for industrial norms and implied it could face deregistration if it continued its unlawful conduct.

The judgment also singled out one union official, questioning whether or not he should continue in his role after behaviour at the taxpayer-funded South Brisbane construction of 140 units for Queensland’s long-term homeless..
Fair Work Building and Construction director Nigel Hadgkiss welcomed the ruling yesterday.

“Coercion is particularly heinous conduct and has widespread impacts on Australia’s building and construction industry,” he said.

“Regrettably the conduct outlined in this case is but day-to-day activity on Australia’s building and construction sites.”

CFMEU national vice president Michael Ravbar said the union would not appeal..>
http://tinyurl.com/nbdwxxq

otb,

Forum etiquette requires that you don't keep
harping on about the same thing, or hankering
back to previous arguments. It is rarely
productive and you always end up going round in
circles.

Respect other posters if you disagree explain why.
Avoid personal attacks, pettiness, and abuse.

I have clearly stated that the Royal Commission into
union corruption should go ahead on this forum.
Kindly retract your statement that I am against
the Royal Commission. It is a false statement.

cont'd ...

I am not critical of the Royal Commission.
What I was criticising was the NSW Liberal
Party - and how they neglected to inform
Justice Dyson Heydon of all the facts.

As for "sledging" Mr Abbott.
Again - giving website links to opinion pieces
from media articles does not equate to "sledging."

Dear Rehctub,

You seem to have a problem with the opinions of others.
Not a good look if you want your opinions to be
respected. Change your tactics.

Just a reminder Gentlemen, Mr Abbott and his
government lost over 30 news polls in a row.
The facts speak for themselves as to what voters
felt.

As for Mr Turnbull?

The following link says it all:

http://www.news.com.au/national/politics/malcolm-turnbull-our-most-popular-prime-minister-in-five-years-newspoll/story-fnsOjze1-1227537974418

G'day there PAUL1405...

I don't think anyone of them deserve the trust the electorate places in them at polling time ? During electioneering, you see the band of hopeful incumbents out and about with promises of this and that, shouting aloud how accessibly they'll be, if only you'll vote for them, and their Party ?

We all know the 'bunkum' they'll tell us, yet inexplicably we still cast our vote in their favour, why ? And of course they'll continue to betray our trust, as do the media with their distortions, half truths and outright duplicity ?

Mr TURNBELL has not yet been Prime Minister for 168 hours, yet the Polls have revitalised in the LNP's favour. The markets have surged, and Mr SHORTIN has all but disappeared as preferred PM ? But the sun continued to rise in the east and set in the west ? The bloke's done nothing yet, nothing at all, squat, zero !

Are we now so fickle as an electorate, we vote purely on a politician's personality, the timbre and resonance of his voice and his urbane 'good' looks alone ?

God we're a bunch of dopes, we really are, don't you think Paul ?

Dear o sung wu,

I'm afraid you have neglected the 'anyone but Abbott' factor.

We might question if the electorate knows at this stage what they really want, but what they are very sure about is that they don't want any more of Tony.

You say you liked the bloke, well fair enough, in fact out of he, Rudd, Shorten, Gillard he is probably the one a good chunk of us would be happiest having a beer with. Some of us might not align directly with his politics but it is not hard to think he would be the most convivial.

Sadly this does not mean it makes a person a good or even competent prime minister. Abbott was very far from that.

In Abbott's case it wasn't the " the timbre and resonance of his voice and his urbane 'good' looks" that got him the job, instead it was his assurances he would lead well and get things done. He failed and if Turnbull doesn't live up to his claims the electorate will judge him equally harshly.

Fox, "The facts speak for themselves.."

Facts like Qld's Labor Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk refusing to end Labor's affiliation with the CFMEU;

and,

Premier Palaszczuk urgently instituting a 'review' to deep six the highly successful Vicious Lawless Association Disestablishment (VLAD) Act, or 'anti-bikie' legislation.

So Foxy, are you now suggesting you didn't support Rudd and Gillard while they were respective pm's? This was all I was pointing out.

Doog, can you tell me how much of that 110 billion you mention was due to pre commitments left in place by the previous failed labor governments.

Once this is established we could have a serious debate about the Abbott governments own spendings, don't you think!

Paul, John Howard was somewhat if a dud when he came to office, then went on to be a very successful PM. I thought Tony Abbott deserved the same amount of respect and time to justify his appointment into the top job.

You see I don't vote for personalities so perhaps that's where I'm different. I also think TA Had some good policies, it's just that the same people who willingly took the free handouts are reluctant to repay them and would prefer to leave the debt to future generations.

My faith in him took a dive when he gave his captains pick to Prince Phillip and when he refused to distance himself from Bronwyn Bishop.

STEELEREDUX...

While it's true Tony ABBOTT wasn't a popular figure, not popular at all to be honest, he tried damn hard to correct the excesses of six years of Labour, but couldn't get many of his economic initiatives through a hostile Senate ? The same could be said of Joe HOCKEY, some of his ideas were so repugnant with the electorate at large, his second budget was a much more conciliatory and less stringent than his first, again blocked by the Senate.

How can anyone govern with a Senate blocking many of the better measures needed to correct the huge deficit ? Tony ABBOTT had the world, and some treacherous 'slugs' in his own Party, against him, it's little wonder he couldn't succeed.

Look STEELEREDUX, I once admitted to POIROT I have no knowledge of the internal machinations of politics, generally speaking I end up copping a decent admonishment ? I do like Tony ABBOTT, but I recognise his leadership was fundamentally flawed ? As perhaps anybody's may well have been, whenever confronted with a wholly hostile Senate, a partially dysfunctional and disloyal Party, and a hateful Parliamentary Media pack ?

Butch if there were any commitments as you say, Abbott would have been a party to it by passing legislation . That is where it stops. Abbott had two years of defending all those lies he told, the only changes abbott made were giving our worst polluters 6 billion $ and backed out a tax that never made any money as they say.

The liberal party done the right thing getting rid of the dead wood, and reformulating, as we can now move forward and not stagnate into a third world, with a .2% growth, That sort of leadership is beyond belief. We came close to a depression, of mega proportions, we now need to climb out of the pit of despair, and get the economy fired up.

Weather the dumbing down of society and business, along with doom and gloom being thrown at us was an agenda for other things remains a question that needs analyzing. There was certainly some strange moves being trialed by our previous PM

O sung wu, you mentioned the disloyalty against Tony Abbott a couple of times in a recent post. A theme that's pretty common but which I think does not pay enough attention to how Abbott got the leadership of the parliamentary arm of the Liberal Party in the first place. There are a number of sources around but I think the Wikipedia summary is not to bad (others may be able to add other perspectives to it). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia_leadership_spill,_2009

From my perspective there is a element of reaping what you sow in Abbott's removal. He was not a clean skin who came to the position as a result of his own loyalty to the party leader. He made much of the Liberal Party not being like the Labor party but his own actions seemed to make it like them, a "leader" desperate to cling to the top job regardless of the very likely massive electoral wipe out that appeared to be leading to. He left me with the impression of putting his own position above the electoral well being of his own side of politics.

The loyalty card can cut both ways and I'm not convinced Abbott is someone who gives as much of it as he demanded.

R0bert

G'day o sung wu,

As someone who has been involved in politics for over 40 years, I must say the majority of politicians, and aspiring politicians, I have met in that time, from all political parties, Labor, Liberal, The Greens, independents etc have in the main been decent committed people. That's not to say I haven't met those who are not somewhat egotistical, but generally even these people have demonstrated a degree of commitment which has been rather admirable.
Politics is the art of the possible, and is not the place for the total idealists or the faint heated, pragmatism is a great asset, and those that are prepared to compromise tend to achieve more, and finish on top more often than not.
In politics the media can be your best friend, or your worst enemy, and a good politician at all levels needs to know the media and how it operates. At the highest levels of government the media can make or break a politician, the pressure they exert on people like Turnbull, Abbott and Shorten is immense. Yes it does pay to look good, and come across well in front of the camera during that 30 second grab in the 6 o'clock news. That is today's political reality.Woe betide the politician who thinks the people will support me even if the media don't! Disastrous! Maybe that was Abbott's problem.

Dear rehctub and otb,

This discussion is about the Liberal Party changing leaders.

Virginia Trioli in her recent column points out the obvious:

None of us really know if Mr Turnbull can fulfil the promise
he has always shown in terms of vision, discussion, and
leadership. But by any objective measure, within the context
of contemporary Australian politicians, he is one of a very,
very few who appear to see a way through blinkered, craven
self-interest and to a greater Australia somewhere beyond.

These are going to be interesting times.

The old line - what do you call a leader with no followers?
Just someone out having a walk.

Let us see who might feel inspired enough to follow this
leader.

According to recent newspolls - Malcolm Turnbull's followers
are increasing.

Hi there ROBERT & PAUL1405...

Thank you for your respective opinions and you're both probably right. I guess I'm somewhat of an idealist and place too much value on the integrity of our politicians when after all, they're only human ?

It's just the prolific lying that really gets to me, unabated from them all. They must believe the entire electorate are uneducated fools, who'll swallow anything that comes from their mouth, and we can all see, that's certainly not the case. One only needs to look at this Forum alone, to gauge the number of really 'switched on' individuals who regularly contribute herein, to support that view !

While it's quite true I'm a political dunce, I am however, reasonably skilled at teasing out these 'bull-artists' who regularly permeate our TV's, for their '30 second' grab during the nightly news or current affairs programmes. So I don't have much faith in anything they say, I'm afraid. I guess I'm a totally mistrustful soul when it comes to politicians and their utterances.

Dear O Sung Wu,

You're not alone in your feelings about politicians.

The general consensus in communities around the country,
and as the newspolls indicate - the astonishing outpouring
of frustration about the utterly uninspiring nature of
Australian political life is palable.

We've been told that the 24-hour news cucle, poll-driven
politics, a narrow political class of candidates are all to
blame. But none of these answers ever seem satisfactory.

Virginia Trioli explains that political leaders on both
sides since John Howard seem to have come from the robot
school of leadership training; choking on their talking
points, speaking to the country as if we are kindergarten
children. She tells us that it's an absolute mystery
to her how they kid themselves that they are getting
away with it.

As far as our new Prime Minister is concerned?

I agree with Trioli when she tells us that -
like any other possible prime minister, he will have to
work within narrow (and narrowing) party-maching politics,
and this just might be the thing that knocks that
vision of his out of his system.

I hope not. because I feel that as she points out - by
any objective measure, within the context of contemporary
Australian politicians Malcolm Turnbull is one of the very,
very few who appear to see a way through blinkered, craven
self-interest and to a greater Australia somewhere beyond.

And as Trioli tells us - judging from her own mailbags
and the mailbags of media organisations around the country,
including comments on social media, twitter, facebook,
the voting public is simply desperate for someone
to make an argument for reform that comes to grips with
the economic, technological and social changes that
threaten to change this country forever.

These are going to be interesting times.

......I believe Malcolm is doing a Gillard (both planted by CIA and the Illuminati cabal globalists). We didn’t vote for them, did we?

Constance, nobody other than those in their respective electorates voted for them, we onlybget to vote for the local member and don't get a say in who the side with, or who they choose as leader. It's one ofvthe fundamental flaws in our system.

Yes Foxy, it is about changing leaders and when the current leader has lost their way, why shouldn't parties be able to dump them, because after all, the people didn't get to choose the leader, the party did. That's why I ask what's all the fuss about.

Hi there FOXY...

It's really sad isn't it, that we can no longer depend or trust our political leaders to do what's best for our great country. This Nation was built on the hard work of all Australians. Australians who's only common wish, was to have a job, a home, and to bring up their children with all the great values and morality our forebears once taught us ?

And now...where do we go, what do we do, and who'll lead us out of this political void ? Who has the persuasive qualities, together with the resolution and courageousness, to spurn those politicians who engage in petty political factions, backroom deals, self interest, egos, and moral corrupt agendas, to lead this country out of the pessimism and gloom that now seems to completely pervade the electorate as a whole ?

Honestly FOXY what this country needs and needs urgently, is a real, fair dinkum LEADER, and nothing less ! And sadly, I see nobody, no one at all, even on the far horizon, with any of the qualities that are so urgently needed ?

Though as a provisional measure, might I humbly suggest to you, forming a Task Force of detectives, drawn from members of the NSW Police Fraud Squad, and let 'em loose into every State Parliament House, and the Federal Parliament, in Canberra. With a brief to rout out all entrenched corruption, as practiced by our elected representatives !

Actually, a Task Force would be patently insufficient. An entire police force is what's needed, considering how deeply entrenched corruption is engrained in our political system ?

Dear Rehctub, and O Sung Wu,

The voting public is simply desperate for someone
to make an argument for reform that as stated
earlier comes to grips with the economic,
technological and social changes that threaten this
country forever.

I am optimistic and believe Virginia Trioli
when she tells us - that of all Australian
politicians Malcolm Turnbull is one of a very, very few
who appears to see a way through blinkered craven self-interest,
and to a greater Australia somewhere beyond.

After all the rabid foaming-at-the-mouth diatribes levelled at the ALP for doing the same thing, it shows them up to be nothing more than self-serving power-hungry hypocrites.

But then again, that's what they have always been.

At 57 'Phony' Tony has declared himself too young to suffer an ignominious political death, and will battle on from the sidelines. This must give hope to our forum friends from the rabid right that their beloved messiah will one day make the "second coming", and return to lead them into salvation. Could we see the formation of a new far right holy trinity within parliament consisting of yesterdays discards, god the Tony, god the Bronnie and god the 'Cocky' Joe, would make for interesting times, or is 'Phony' Tony simply going to, borrowing a line from one of the rabid rights most prolific posters, sit back and swing off the public teat. Your call boys! Should the Mad Monk, go or stay?

Should the Mad Monk, go or stay? In keeping with being like the Labor party he should stay and try and destabilise the government from within.

I wonder though how Tony and Joe would get on in that trinity now. Might be some smiting going on.

R0bert

rehctub asks: "So what's all the fuss about with the libs changing leaders"?

Not being treated like persona non grata at international conferences...things like that.

"New York: The Australian delegation to the United Nations General Assembly in New York appears to be receiving a different welcome than it might have had Tony Abbott still been in office.

Doors that were recently firmly closed have mysteriously swung open.

It is understood that senior diplomats, including United States ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, have expressed enthusiasm at the prospect of working with a government led by Malcolm Turnbull, who forced Mr Abbott from office earlier this month, and who was unable to attend the Assembly.

Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop has received a last minute invitation to attend a Sunday lunch being hosted by United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon for the leaders of about 20 nations to discuss climate change.

China's President Xi Jinping will be in attendance but Mr Abbott, who was to have been attending the General Assembly until the leadership ballot, had not been invited. Ms Bishop will be the only guest at the ministerial level."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/doors-open-under-new-pm-as-julie-bishop-attends-un-general-assembly-20150926-gjvgfc.html#ixzz3mpyEo4MX

It's a tad refreshing not having a govt led by a flaming foot-in-mouth fool, don't you think?

Poirot "It's a tad refreshing not having a govt led by a flaming foot-in-mouth fool, don't you think?"
More than a tad, I would suggest :)

I, for one, am just looking forward to a PM attending international events and meetings without embarrassing other Australians.
Abbott just wasn't an effective verbal communicator. He did reasonably well with non-verbal communication though....he made it pretty clear to those poor journalists who came up against a silent brick wall of a PM at times!

Here's an interesting take.

The demise of Abbott has led to a bit a civil war at the Murdoch media. We have the far righties, the likes of Andrew Bolt and Steve price now arguing with the Australian Newspaper...which one has to admit is kinda delicious.

"The first public salvo was fired last week by Bolt in his blog, where he lamented that The Australian had been too quick to forget its loyalty to Abbott and “insist others fall in dutifully and loyally behind Turnbull”. Bolt said the overwhelming response he had received from his fans was anger towards Turnbull for having ruthlessly cut down “one of the finest people to be prime minister”."

"Price called Mitchell an “elitist” and claimed his show had a bigger audience than The Australian.

We need recount no more of it, except for Bolt’s one, unarguably true pronouncement: “We worried that Malcolm Turnbull – by deposing Tony Abbott – would set off a civil war within the Liberal Party. Well what he’s done is set off a civil war within News Corp. Oh, what a joke.”

What Bolt appears not to realise, and what Mitchell and the higher-ups at News Corp clearly do, is that the joke is on the loyalists. The right-wing commentators who dominate the pages of the News Corp tabloids and radio talkback are losers just like Abbott. They thought they were kingmakers, but Turnbull became king without them. Worse, he became king in spite of them.

In Tony Abbott they had a leader who constantly played to his political base, using the shock jocks and authorised leaks to the News Corp tabloids as his vehicle. In Turnbull, we have a prime minister clearly intent on trying to win back the middle of politics and public opinion. And he doesn’t need them to do it."

Etc...

http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2015/09/26/leadership-change-sparks-civil-war-news-corp/14431896002433

Parrot,

I see that once again you are quoting an opinion piece from a wannabee journalist at the one man political Blog the "Saturday paper". The half wit writer is so devoid of anything meaningful to say that he has to describe dissenting opinion as civil war.

The reason that many liberal supporters are unhappy with the change in leadership, is that it is clear that Tony Abbott did the heavy lifting in exposing the incompetence and corruption in the Labor party and ridding Australia of two of the most incompetent, bumbling, and embarrassing leaders in Aus history.

When Turnbull was removed it was because of his captain's picks and was given fair warning by TA and others before the party moved against him, and while he may have regained the top job, I doubt the lesson has been forgotten.

What the left whingers have forgotten in their delight at TA's demise is that the Labor party and the greens are looking increasingly less relevant and unelectable. Shorten and the labor party are looking corrupt and beholden to the crime ridden union movement, and the greens who are ever more on the CFMEU payroll are beginning to lose their holier than thou halo and look just a little sleazy.

I see a DD election coming soon once a suitable trigger such as Labor's rejection of the China FTA, which will spring clean the senate of the idiots such as Lambie and deliver a majority in both houses.

SM,

"The reason that many liberal supporters are unhappy with the change in leadership, is that it is clear that Tony Abbott did the heavy lifting in exposing the incompetence and corruption in the Labor party and ridding Australia of two of the most incompetent, bumbling, and embarrassing leaders in Aus history."

Lol!....goodness me - what a Superman!

I wonder why he was booted into the stratosphere then?

Parrot,

Why was Hawke booted to the stratosphere? Because he couldn't get the polling to win. Rudd was knifed for incompetence and Juliar for the stench of corruption and lying to the electorate? Abbott's achievements far exceed that of Labor over 2 years. And that combined with a leader that the media loves, Labor is in for a hiding.

I would however, support TA splitting from the liberal party to form a conservative party in much the same way as the Greens became the labor socialist party.

Dear Poirot,

Well said.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Abbott was such a shocker as a prime minister that his own party had to turf him well before the time either Rudd or Gillard were forced to leave.

He very rightly earns the title as likely the “most incompetent, bumbling, and embarrassing leaders in Aus history” and this country has given a huge sigh of relief now that he has gone.

In all but a few measures he was a complete failure, the likes we hope never to see in Australian politics for a very long time. Debt skyrocketed, unemployment outstripped the US, business confidence hit rock bottom and the government had become totally disfunctional, ultimately being a 'kitchen cabinet' of one – Peta Credlin.

Virtually every failure Abbott sought to hang around the neck of the Rudd/Gillard years he took to new heights. Being removed as a first term prime minister was just him fulfilling that script. Time will tell if he excels as a great destabiliser as well.

Now I get that you are in mourning, and that creating some sort of fantasy around this bloke's tenure helps deal with the pain, but at some point you will have to snap out of it my friend otherwise you will end up with very little credibility.