While Liberal National MP George Christensen was addressing a ‘Reclaim Australia’ rally in Mackay, like minded Anti-Islamic groups were physically clashing with Anti-Racism protesters in Melbourne and Sydney;
It is not a good look for the Abbott Government to have one of its own being associated with such extremism.

I hope you noticed it was the anti-racism protestors who showed up in masks and started the violence. It was the anti-racism protestors fighting with the police and trying to get in the face of the anti-Islam demonstrators.

It seems the university student anti-racist protestors are also anti free speech when others have a message they don't agree with.

Personally I believe a person is entitled to not want this country to eventually become Islamic (via the higher birth rate of Muslim people; possibly taking a 100 years). This is not racism, it is pragmatism. If they don't speak up now, do you think they will be given a voice once the balance has shifted?

Far more extreme is Hanson Young who uses tax payer money (or was it from the CFEU) to promote illegal immigration. Just because the abc support your actions does not validate your hatreds and extremism. They also support terrorism. This back bencher is very mild compared with most Greens.

Yes, Paul...Christensen is someone the young kiddies of Australia can truly look up to.

Don't you just love the current class of fed Coalition MP's?

But let's cut to the chase.

Before the advent of the Abbott govt - no regular racist violence on the streets...

After the advent of the Abbott govt - well.....

His work is done.

Even politicians have the right to protest.

The real loons are the "anti-racist" mob. The protest is against Islam, and Islam is NOT a race anymore than any other religions or systems. Muslims are of all different races, including Caucasian. 'Racist' is used as a form of abuse by people for whom it is one of few words they can spell, and all the sheep use it because they heard the other sheep use it. The are all too thick to know that the word is wrongly used, and has no application in regard to discussions about Islam, or feelings against Islam.

Poirot, did Hip see the pair of raciest fighting with each other on the news yesterday.
Abbott has been very divisive when it comes to playing the race card.

Dear Paul,

I think all this is a storm in a teacup.

Its pure theatre.

The media should not give them the media
coverage they're after.

Within a decade or two Paul, these protesters you now consider extreme will be the mainstream.

The average person will have woken up to what is going on, & is going to happen to them at the hands of these MMs, [Murdering Muslims] as they gain control of more territory.

Useful idiots will be the first target of the MMs, I hope you can run.

Indeed, paul....

ttbn's getting all pedantic and lecturing us the technicalities of what's "racist" and what's not.

Not a word about the thugs and Nazis abounding at such gatherings.

But we should celebrate - Abbott's Australia 2015 - people fighting in the streets over bigotry - Hoorah!

Good old Hasbeen, replete with tin foil hat and festooned with Oz flags, toots a timely warning.

I can't help wondering why our Prime Minister banned
his MPs from speaking on Q&A but allowed them to appear
at a rally such as this one. Or aren't Muslims part of
"Team Australia?"

While reading through this thread a pop up box appeared with a link to an article about an interview with a jihadist. I read the article and found it fascinating. If the box hasn't popped up yet for any of you, here's the link. Its good article in that it takes no sides...
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/world/2015/07/18/meeting-daesh-jihadist-syria/14371416002139?gclid=CKP22tT36MYCFVMAvAodIrkN1w

'Or aren't Muslims part of "Team Australia?"

I suspect most muslims are more part of 'Team Australia'Foxy than the socialist backed abc. I thought the violence produced by the left on the weekend would of made that obvious to you. The again your abbottphobia has led to numerous distortions of judgement.

Yar, thanks, runner.

Isn't it great to live in a country where the serving govt acts as an incendiary mechanism to ramp up religious and race division!

Where a serving member, elected to represent his entire electorate, can choose to go and mouth off in support of a racist rally - even though his leader bans ministers from a program on the public broadcaster.

And this forum appears to host a lot of peeps who think that's a wonderful turn of events.

as usual Poirot you ignore the fact that trying integrate cultures that depise Western civilisation has not worked anywhere in the world. Unfortunately pig headed regressives have created this problem and now demonise and commit violence against anyone with consenting views.

Yes it is a very sad state of affairs but yet again an easily avoidable mess had the people with any commonsense not been silenced and berated by the likes of your and socialist abc/sbs intent on inflicting stupidity on this nation.

btw even you are not so blind as to realise that Islam is not a race. The left has a way with weasel words.

Different thread same offer, I was in the thick of the action all day at the Melbourne rally, saw all the fights, got pepper sprayed, took videos etc. It's not 100% accurate to say that the Anti Racism campaigners started all the fights, ANTIFA, the black masked, balaclava wearing Anarchists were bashing people left right and centre and they are the ones who rushed the cops at about 11.30. What happened was that there were two lines, one at the top of Bourke St and one across spring St outside the theatre. From about 10:30 people started to drift in to the Spring St line but at about 11:30 a crowd of maybe 100 people came running up Little Bourke St into spring St and began to form a picket line in front of the cops, this caused some confusion and a group of ANTIFA took advantage and charged the Police line at the Princess theatre end. The Socialist Party marshals and innocent bystanders got caught up in the melee trying to stop the ANTIFA as OC foam was deployed and a counter charge let by Public Order officers and mounted units pushed all of us back about ten metres. Steve Jolly and his people did try to keep order but they were too few to make a difference and tempers flared when the ANTIFA were confronted and asked to behave themselves.

I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to a bit of biff but it was pretty shocking to see the ANTIFA assaulting anyone who came close to the picket and who wasn't obviously a Leftist. One poor guy was on the ground being pummeled a few feet away from me so a bunch of us "adults" dived in in tried to right him and get him away from the mob, as we did so a young girl, maybe 18 years old leapt in and kicked him, she was given a mighty shove backwards and told to "F-off" by one of the other men.
His crime? He was in my estimation mildly mentally handicapped and wanted to get around the crowd to as he said "get a coffee" in Bourke St, he couldn't understand why he'd been assaulted, it was pitiful and I was worried he was going to have a heart attack or something because he was so worked up.
The other "Racist" attackers, the ones you probably all on the news saw being assaulted then arrested at the tram stop did provoke the ANTIFA but it was three against twenty and they were seriously beaten before the Police could get to them, that was another melee where OC was used.

That's hardly logical, Hasbeen.

>>Useful idiots will be the first target of the MMs, I hope you can run<<

Surely, if your intention is to dominate a society (cf. fifties and sixties Soviet Union) than you want to keep "useful idiots" around for as long as possible, n'est-ce pas?

As far as the topic here goes, I am still a firm believer in the value of free speech, whether from the mouths of rag-tag ferals on a panel programme, or rabble-rousers in the high street. I am able to make my own judgment on the values of the individuals concerned, and the platform from which those views emanate.

Whether the rally was fundamentally "racist" or not is irrelevant, as I am also capable of making up my own mind on the attitude of those involved. On both sides. And I certainly don't need the media to do my thinking for me.

Poirot,

It is not pedantic to point out the misuse of a simple English word, nor did I think it was necessary to mention Nazis, who will certainly there in the form of radical Islam, the new Nazism. Incidentally, Nazis were, and are, socialists. Is it too pedantic to remind you that they called/call themselves National Socialists? I don't like them at all, but I can't see what you would have against them. Uncle Adolf was a socialist like you, carried along by a German workers' union.

Thanks ttbn,

...

Paul (and anyone who's interested)

Here's First Dog on the Moon with a bit of satirical sanity and the return of the racist carrot....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/20/the-racist-carrot-returns-to-reclaim-australia-and-hes-had-a-gutful

Last two frames:

"How is it that a country like Australia which believes in being allowed to wear your thongs in the front bar and a fair go for all is in such a bigoted flap?"

"These days even Nazis are allowed to be offended when they're called racist."

"Oh I'm not a full time racist, just on the weekends. It's more of a hobby."

"Meanwhile the Prime Minister bravely said nothing when a federal parliamentarian spoke in front of the sort of rally that Nazis would normally attend but didn't."

"I have spent years whipping the country into an islamophobic frenzy. I'm not going to give up all those votes for the cheap appearance of decency."

* "Leadership is about making hard choices."

Dear runner,

Kindly provide us with some evidence to your claims
both about the ABC and my supposed "Abbottphobia."
Otherwise I shall take your comments once again
as your usual drive-by rant - to be ignored.

Here's the speech given by George Christensen at the
reclaim rally with appropriate translations:

http://www.newmatilda.com/2015/07/19/we-read-george-christensens-reclaim-speech-so-you-didnt-have

Fox, (to runner), "Kindly provide us with some evidence to your claims
both about the ABC and my supposed "Abbottphobia."

Fox's SUPPOSED Abbottphobia? LOL

You will need to be patient. Along with everyone else, runner would have fallen off his chair in mirth at that one. You have more front than a Greyhound bus.

Regarding the ABC, yes the ABC does have a 'Progressive' slant - which is of course why you like it. -Along with those iffy 'independents', blogs and suchlike.

Gawd Foxy - that's rather forward of you!

Lol!...I like this bit:

"....I am proud of the fact that someone who has a particular belief can hold that view without fear of intimidation. They can practice their faith – whether they are Christian, Buddhist, or Muslim – at a church, a temple, or a mosque – without fear of intimidation...."

I like this next bit even better:

"TRANSLATION: You’re free to practice whatever religion you like, provided you don’t practice whatever religion I don’t like. Which is Islam."

Oh and...

"Likewise, we have a freedom to criticise. While it is not my cup of tea to criticise religions, I see that people criticise Christianity every day without fear of retribution, violence, or being called a Christophobe or a racist.

TRANSLATION: It is my cup of tea to criticise religions. And by ‘religions’ I mean Islam."

(Not to mention that some of us run a daily risk of being pasted as "Abbottphobes" by runner)

"It is we who must not give in to the bullying and the intimidation and speak without fear to our friends and family about our freedoms, our culture, our lifestyle, and the threat radical extremism brings to those freedoms.

TRANSLATION: The Muslims who make up 2 percent of the population are taking over. We should feel under threat.

Best bit is when the right-wing populist reactionary blathers about the Magna Carta.

And so it goes...the radicals, Nazis and racists are protecting our kulcha...the naughty lefties are being pepper-sprayed coz of their obvious debauchery (I noted a group of medics were doused in spray merely for being there - serve 'em right too!)

Lovely experience this bizarro Oz.

Doesn't take much to tilt a country off it's moral axis, it seems.

otb,

You always argue in such a logical, manner.
Presenting all of us with sound reasoning
and not resorting to unreasonable generalisations.
You have continued to raise the bar in forum
discussions - always arguing in a mature,
intelligent manner - which we all appreciate
and your "pearls of wisdom," should be recorded.
Write a book. It will be a best-seller, I'm sure.
Especially in Queensland.

Where - everyone likes a logical, non-abusive and strong
debater - like George Christensen.

Well done - you Sir are a "true-blue!"

Dear Poirot,

I enjoyed all of the translations.
I thought some others might as well.
:-)

Hi Poirot,
A good laugh from that one, many a true word is spoken in jest.

Yes, well put Poirot. You certainly raised some smiles from me :)

The MP in question of course has every right to go to whatever violent, mad 'rally' he wants to, as long as he isn't breaking the law.

What is not good is him going to such a divisive rally as an MP, representing the current Government no less.

In a multicultural country that allows freedom of religion, or no religion at all, to be practised, the Government or its representatives should not be seen to be so obviously against one religion or another.
Especially if that MP is joining the crowd of obviously aggressive protesters who appeared to consist of the usual mad 'white supremacist ' crowd, just out for a fun day of Muslim bashing.

Of course, I was just as disgusted at the aggressive antics of the opposition crowd too, as violence from any group in our society should not be tolerated or condoned by any of us.

My feelings as well Suse, the right to protest in a non violent fashion. Fortunate there is little support in the community for both the ratbags of the right, and of the left. The rally in Sydney attracted a couple of hundred fruit loops and that was it. I believe in Melbourne it was one copper for every protester.
As I said in the opening post its not a good look when a government MP fronts up to address an obviously extremest minority. Abbott failed to distance himself from this ratbag MP, which in itself gives legitimacy to Christensen's action.

Pericles,
Have a look to see what has happened to the "useful idiots"
in the Middle east.

Poirot, from memory, you are I think one of the ladies on here.
I would think that you would not be happy to be supporting the
promoters of Sharia Law.
-*-*-
During the last real war there was a word to describe people like the
supporters of the Islamists: Quisling !
The left, that turned out to oppose the demonstration, likes to label
themselves as "progressives" (contradiction of terms) are really Quislings.
We all know who are the Quislings on here.

After the war many of the Quislings were hung, but this time it will
not be necessary for that they will be decapitated by the Islamists anyway.
I think Quisling is a more apt term than Useful Idiot.

Just out of idle curiosity; which country has a thoroughly integrated Muslim population?

Bazz,

Why don't you grow up and ditch the hysterics?

So we're in danger of a Sharia Law takeover, are we?

Where?

When?

How?

Quick - duck!

Poirot as long as the Muslim population of Australia stays around 2% there will never be a seriously negative downside, other than the odd extremist who takes it upon him/herself to do something terrible. And that's bad enough.

The problems caused by a 5% Muslim population in the UK are well documented and exactly the issues many of us don't want to eventuate in Australia.

If you, Foxy, Suse and Paul believe expressing the above is a sure sign I'm a racist bigot, then I cannot change your mind. But I know in my heart I am not racist. I am however concerned about a global problem brewing that is directly related to the spread of Islamic extremism. I am concerned about the preserving democracy and the freedoms enjoyed Western cultures for our grandchildren.

I read some pretty extremist anti-multicultural statements in the forum that I do not agree with in the slightest, but not every comment that you consider Islamaphobic is invalid, or untruthful. You can make all the excuses you want but you cannot deny there is a real problem that stems from Islamic extremists, and with an overall population of a billion plus, its only takes a very small percentage to cause some serious damage.

It would be nice to see you and your cohorts at least show a recognition there is a potential problem if the Muslim population and Islamic traditions are allowed to grow and evolve unchecked. It could take 20 - 100 hundred years, but if no one pays attention, no one takes control, one day your children or grandchildren will be wishing you had.

Suseonline, "In a multicultural country that allows freedom of religion, or no religion at all, to be practised, the Government or its representatives should not be seen to be so obviously against one religion or another"

If that condition is the prerequisite for multiculturalism then you need to take the strongest anti-hypocrisy pills for supporting it.

Where you are concerned it is brick-bats for the Catholics - where you are always initiating criticism and ferocious, but Kid gloves for Islam. Why?

Australia is a secular State and should remain so. That is the very obvious wish of the mainstream population. It is the duty of politicians to comment, criticise, compare and contrast policies. Politicians must also represent their electorates. That is how democracy works. It is the very opposite of Sharia.

It is nothing short of astounding how government and others have turned a blind eye to the importation of medieval cult practices such as ritual slaughter. When finally brought to heel, government massages the rules to water down stunning policy and apart from that, ritual slaughter without prior stunning is still evident.

The dirty secret is that political parties, especially Labor and the Greens, are very accommodating to fringe ethnic demands where the ethnic lobbyists claim to be able to deliver a percent or few of the vote in marginal seats.

Poirot,

So, it's the extreme left Guardian that is responsible for ignorance.

Dear ConservativeHippie,

Frankly, I try not to label people that I don't
know unless their posts clearly indicate
what they think. But even their posts are not a good
summary of a person's traits. People can change
their minds on issues as we know.

My experience has been that most of us are comfortable
with racial diversity. We take people as we find them.
However, as we can see from the media there are some
people who have expressed concerns that Muslims are not
integrating and are coming to Australia to impose their
values on the nation. This is understandable due to
the current politics and the media attention that is
being given to spread the fear.

What we need is strong leadership and finding a balance
between people's fears and the real facts.

I do not believe that we in this country will extend our
laws and "rights," to suit a small minority.
Sharia law will not happen in this country.
We don't need new laws here. Most Muslims that I've dealt
with both professionally and socially are quite happy to live
by the laws of our secular society which we are all required to
abide by.

And the few extremists who may disagree with that will be dealt with
according to the letter of our laws.
They are a minority - and should not be given the attention that
they do not deserve.

Saudi Arabia.

Foxy & Poirot in particular need to pay a lot more attention to what
is happening in France and the UK.
The Islamists have an Aribic word for it.
It is conquest by immigration.
It is their intention to convert Europe and the rest of the world to
Islam or kill those that refuse.
They put it as crudely as that.

Why should we not take them at their word ?
They are doing it to the Kurds and others today.
Where is the room to argue to the contrary ?

There are now legal Sharia Courts in the UK.
That is more than a straw in the wind.
There are no moderate moslems, they will comply with Sharia Law or die.

"I am also capable of making up my own mind on the attitude of those involved."

But that's just the problem, Pericles.
The hysterical real-extremists, the Antifa/PC Thought Police types, won't *let* you "make up your own mind".

They already know all the answers and you must agree with them.
Or else.

Fox,

How many does it take?

Arguably British law is just as strong as Australia's and the police force is equal to any in the world.

Yet in Britain the abomination of child sex trafficking by Pakistani migrants went on for sixteen years and is continuing,

<Rotherham Child Abuse Inquiry: Over 1,400 Children Raped and Trafficked by Men of 'Pakistani-Heritage'

More than 1,400 children were sexually exploited in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, over a period of 16 years, a report has concluded.

An independent investigation has found evidence of "appalling" exploitation between 1997 and 2013, involving children as young as 11.

The victims identified in the report include both girls and a small number of boys, and almost all the perpetrators were of Pakistani heritage.

While some of the cases were historic, it was highlighted that the abuse "continues to this day"...

The report found councillors and council officials were told about the abuse in 2004 and 2005 "in the most explicit terms", but it highlighted evidence of a "macho, sexist and bullying culture" within the council, which stopped it providing an effective response.

Jay said there was evidence that senior people in the council and police wanted to "play down" the "ethnic dimensions" of the sexual exploitation, for fear of being labelled as racist.

"It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse that the victims suffered," she said.

"They were raped by multiple perpetrators, trafficked to other towns and cities in the north of England, abducted, beaten and intimidated.

"There were examples of children who had been doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with guns, made witness to brutally violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone.

"Girls as young as 11 were raped by large numbers of male perpetrators."

Jay added that the people of Rotherham "would be appalled" at the findings. Rotherham has an estimated population of around 258,000 and is approximately six miles from Sheffield city centre.>

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rotherham-child-abuse-inquiry-over-1400-children-raped-trafficked-by-men-pakistani-heritage-1462666

Surely there's nobody on this Forum who could possibly support more Muslim immigration ? To do so, is tantamount to complete stupidity! In every country around the world where there's a Muslim population there 'armed' conflict - even Muslim against Muslim ! To supporters of this madness, it this the legacy you wish to leave for your children and grandchildren ? To support further Muslim immigration to this country is almost beyond belief, even treasonous !

Even those with the political proclivities of the 'Left', PAUL1405, FOXY, SUSEONLINE, POIROT and several others, you've all got common sense, surely you don't wish to bring down this violent Islamic ideology on the heads of all Australians ? Surely not ?

Whether a LNP politician was seen supporting a particular rally or not, is immaterial. This is well above politics. This is about Australia's future safety !

Bazz,

You are right. There are no moderate Muslims.

As journalist and author, Harry Richardson said, moderation is "imposed" on Muslims through lack of power and opportunity. That is their situation in Australia - 2% of the population. But, given the help of the maniacal left who have dissociated themselves from all knowledge, and our equally ignorant politicians, that situation will not last much longer.

Thanks Bazz; now another idle question, how many non-Muslim places of worship are there in Saudi Arabia?

I suspect that you know the answer;

A big fat 0 !

I don't mind that they do not allow churches or whatever, they are a
moslem country and they can please themselves.
They do not allow women to drive, but that is OK by me also.

Tit for tat seems like a good principle to me.

Why any leftist or liberal still supports Islam is beyond me, I mean they've executed, shot and bombed enough of you already that surely the message must be getting through:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=62b_1437391768
What you idiots need to realise is that there's never been an attack by Islamists on anyone from Pegida, the BNP, Sweden Democrats or the Front National.
Let me make this plain to the "progressives", they are coming for YOU, they hate YOU and your way of life, the only thing a "Fascist" like me would have to do to fit in with Sharia would be to pay lip service to their religion and go to the Mosque every now and then, YOU would lose everything.
Muslims are 2% of the Australian population you say? Don't worry you say? Well surveys of Muslims in the west consistently reveal a level of support for violent Jihad of about 20%, so in Australia you have around 100,000 people who agree that violence is justified in the propagation of Islam.
100,000, let that sink in.

JAY of MELBOURNE...I don't think you could explain the situation any more clearly to those who support further Muslim Immigration ? If the message hasn't sunk in by now, it never will I'm afraid. And if that message is simply 'ignored' ? Well I'm afraid this entire country, our values, our way of life, our culture - in fact everything we hold dear, will cease to exist ! And will be lost for all time.

This issue is way above politics and politicians ! The solution lies squarely within us all. Those who choose to ignore it, do so at their own peril !

'This issue is way above politics and politicians !' Unfortunately the regressives need to appease to hold their seats in Western Sydney O Sung Wu.' Self interest always wins out above Australia's safety. They created the mess with their idiotic immigration policies, ignored history and now demonise anyone pointing out their stupidity. Just look at Hanson Youngs foolish encouragement of the illegal immigration trade. Says it all. She has the hide to claim its in the name of compassion.

There is a political party being formed that opposes Moslem migration.
Trying to remember its name;
Australian Liberty Alliance it is.

Probably googles up.

No doubt when it appears on the scene the Quislings will attack it viciously.

Just looked up Quisling on wikipeadia;
Quisling was the Norwegian Labour Party PM who served as Norwegian
leader under the Nazi occupation.

Cutting a bit close to the bone I think.

o sung wu,

The leftist 'Progressives' are waging a cultural war. They have won it too, but they are unwilling to accept the negative consequences of their policies and actions.

See here, this also has application in Oz,

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/344939/mass-immigration-was-lefts-revenge-thatcher-mark-krikorian

O sung Wu,
I've been to Muslim areas of Indonesia and yes, it's a pleasant, functional enough society and one I could easily live in, but..
You won't see any Gay pride parades, music concerts, nightclubs, funky little cafe's or art shows. You can't grow your hair long or wear outlandish clothes, or sunbake on the beach in your swimmers or have a nice glass of wine with dinner if you go out.
In short, societies under sharia law function well and are liveable if all you're into is going to work, going to the mosque and going home.

OTB,
As was pointed out to the lefties on Saturday "Fascism" is perfectly compatible with Islam whereas liberalism and progressive ideals are not, many analysts rate the successes of ISIL as being due to the high number of former Ba'ath party members who've joined up (ie Arab fascists.)

Bac on p.5 I asked " Which country has a thoroughly integrated Muslim population?"

So far only one answer, (thanks again Bazz), surely someone can come up with another?
Suse?
Foxy?
Poirot?

Hi Is Mise

What are you actually asking when you say "Which country has a thoroughly integrated Muslim population?"

Are you asking which western countries have a substantial Muslim population that has fully integrated into the western culture, or just any country that is mostly Muslim and functioning reasonably?

There is a big difference and I think Saudi Arabia is solely an example of the later.

Isn't Singapore a pretty good mix of Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists with a few Christians thrown in? I believe there is not much ethnic or religious tension there, and I'm sure the Muslim people in Singapore would not be in a hurry to give up their freedom and lifestyle.

It's always a bummer when you choose songs from an Aussie icon to foment a little nationalistic fervour at yer racist rallies - and the bloke who sings them comes out and disassociates himself from your cause.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/jimmy-barnes-urges-antiislam-rallies-to-stop-playing-his-songs-20150721-gihjww.html

"In a message posted on his Facebook page, Barnes said it had come to his attention that "certain groups of people" had been playing his songs at rallies.

Two anti-Islam groups, the United Patriots Front and Reclaim Australia, have been staging rallies around the country brandishing Australian flags and protesting the "spread" of Islam, halal food and Asian immigration.

"I only want to say the Australia I belong to and love is a tolerant Australia. A place that is open and giving," he wrote on Tuesday night.

"It is a place that embraces all sorts of different people, in fact it is made stronger by the diversity of its people. If you look at my family you can see we are a multicultural family. Australia needs to stand up for Love and Tolerance [sic] in these modern times.

"None of these people represent me and I do not support them."

"Reclaim Australia were reportedly playing Khe Sanh, the song written about an Australian Vietnam veteran returning home and suffering with post traumatic stress disorder, at the relatively peaceful Brisbane Reclaim Australian rally on Sunday."

"Redgum songwriter John Schumann also recently said he did not support his song I Was Only 19 being played at Reclaim Australia rallies.

"I am very, very disappointed to see my work co-opted by what I, at my most charitable, consider to be a very confused 'patriotic' movement," Schumann said at the time."

ConservativeHippie, "Isn't Singapore a pretty good mix of Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists with a few Christians thrown in? I believe there is not much ethnic or religious tension there, and I'm sure the Muslim people in Singapore would not be in a hurry to give up their freedom and lifestyle"

Perhaps there have always been compelling reasons for the apparent quiet in Singapore.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64203/wikileaks-cable-lee-kuan-yew-calls-islam-a-venomous-religion/

Fascinating reports from a rally...

"“Stand With Muslims Against Racism” reads one of their huge banners.

Back here, on the anti-multicultural side, Danny Nalliah, a Sri Lankan immigrant from the Christian Catch the Fire Ministry, climbs on the ute. He begins a chant: Aussie! Aussie! Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi! He warns of Sharia Law creeping into Australia. He says Muslims are coming here and not assimilating. What a tangle! If the Aussie way of life is leaving your grievances behind when you immigrate, maybe he’s the one not assimilating."

"About half of these Reclaim Australia people are from Catch the Fire Ministry, or their political branch, Rise Up Australia. Out of these maybe a quarter are non-white — Asians, Indians and Africans.

I upload a collage of this very multicultural anti-multicultural rally to my Facebook. Immediately progressives start psychoanalysing. These are brown people who are victims of racist Australia! They want to be accepted by the dominant white supremacy culture and so debase themselves this way."

"Catch The Fire Ministry/Rise Up Australia is not the only gang here supporting Reclaim Australia. I walk away from the ute, deeper into the crowd where big red flags cast shadows. This is the territory of the far-right United Patriots Front. Here are white Australians who look like bikies.

“Turn on the gas!” a leather-clad man shouts at Jewish John Safran.

“Is that a joke?” I ask.

“No, no,” he mumbles, immediately backing down. I’ve met Holocaust deniers before but this is the first Holocaust joke denier I’ve come across.

An emo-Nazi, lanky, dressed in black, with a Korean boy band haircut, just stares and stares at me.

“You Jewish parasite,“ he hisses. “Write a book about me and see what happens!”"

"“[....]off, you’re not wanted here!” he snaps, motioning I belong to the lefties on the other side of the police line. He tells me he’ll come after me if I write anything funny about him. Think I’ll still leave the Korean boy band haircut in."

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/john-safran-reports-from-the-reclaim-australia-rally-where-things-were-even-scarier-than-he-expected/story-fnu2q5nu-1227451292484

Are these some of the "values" to which o sung wu alluded?

G'day there RUNNER...

So our venerable Ms HANSEN-YOUNG wishes to exhibit compassion does she ? Well how about showing the same level of compassion for her fellow Australian countrymen and women ? Surely their future safety, their welfare, their culture, and there very survival, is just as important to her and her kind ? Or does she prefer those who offer no allegiance to Australia, other then a more than passing curiosity for it's Social Security system ?

ONTHEBEACH...

I just can't believe, even the 'Left' wishes to further incite and complicate our already strained multicultural relations ? Even 'blind Freddy' can see the only possible outcome would lead to violence, by setting one group of Australians against another. It matters not, who's right or who's wrong ? What really matters is trying to divert, at all costs, these shimmering tensions from further compounding and exacerbating to such a point, where our beloved Nation could inexorably slide into a state of anarchy.

JAY of MELBOURNE...

Your summation of societies living equitably under Sharia law, with respect, perhaps you left out one component of their lifestyle ? The inevitable knock on the door by the 'religious police' to ensure you and yours are living, strictly under the provision of important Islamic tenets ?

Poirot,
Ha! I literally ran into him turning the corner into Meyer's lane on Saturday morning. John Safran is one of the few remaining true journalists, he sees the nuances and appreciates the "wide and shallow" definition of "White" we apply in White Nationalism. Anyone who'd run him off their picket has rocks in their head or is an obvious "neo Nazi" plant because he has a good reputation for just reporting the facts, his book on the murder of Neo Nazi nutcase and closet homosexual Richard Barrett was excellent.
As for the Rise Up! people they're Christian "Happy Clappers", not nationalists, they take anti discrimination to an extreme, even tolerating the likes of Glenn "Race Civil War" Anderson at their rallies. For the record the Neo Nazis present at the Reclaim Australia rally in Melbourne were confronted and rather forcefully ejected by Ralph Cerminara and his men once the UPF contingent had arrived from their assembly point in the Carlton gardens, there's an amusing video of Anderson being humiliated on the UPF Facebook.
Old Ross "The Skull" May and his mate from Squadron 88 also tried to sneak onto the UPF bus in Sydney and were likewise given the bum's rush by Ralph and co, a similarly amusing confrontation occurred and footage is available of the UPF page.

It is confusing trying to work out whos who in the zoo of the left.
It seems the left green are divided into those that are greens and
those that are really abandoned communists.
They feel lost since Joseph Stalin and his successors died out.
The left is further divided, but not accross the same fracture, into
those that want the best for Australia and the Quislings who want to
destroy our history and culture, to use an inaccurate word, and are
happy to just let the fascist/religious take over.

I just see on the TV, while I am typing this, that the ABC is
attacking the Regain Australia group.
Of course they are not saying,
"We the ABC accuse the Regain of being racists", they just quote people who say they are.

Goebles had a phrase for that. I'll bet Vidkun Quisling went along with that also.

Poirot, I hope Jimmy Barnes and John Schumann saved a few pennies from their heyday.

After pissing off their most avid fans, they won't be getting too many more royalty checks.

Maybe they should've just kept their mouths shut and waited til it all blew over.
Now they have declared their enmity publicly. Oops!

So John Safran is pals with Muslims now?
The same John Safran who made a career out of mocking religion?

Strange how this "movement" brings out the hypocrisy and self-destruction of hasbeen celebrities.

Fun Fact,
At the Melbourne rally there was a contingent of young Muslims present with some of the Street Dawa activists handing out leaflets near that raised seating area above Parliament Station. It must have been amusing for them to see from their vantage point a bunch of White people punching seven bells out of each other on account of Islam while they sat un-molested and un-worried the whole time.

More problems for the Reclaim playlist...

"John Farnham and his manager Glenn Wheatley have strongly attacked the organisers of the racist activist group Reclaim Australia, calling their use of iconic songs including Farnham's You're The Voice "disgusting".

"I have successfully pulled down the use of You're the Voice from Youtube that these guys have been using," Wheatley said in a statement. "The use was disgusting as it showed the decapitation of those poor souls who lost their lives."

"John and I are seriously opposed to the use of John's song at the rallies. It no way reflects our support in any way," said Wheatley."

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/john-farnham-disgusted-by-reclaim-australias-use-of-youre-the-voice-20150722-gii2ba.html#ixzz3gcDOT4tC

Shockadelic, "Strange how this "movement" brings out the hypocrisy and self-destruction of hasbeen celebrities"

Tabloid hacks who make the 'news'(sic) by shirt-fronting celebs to get a reaction.

Of course, as some so ably demonstrate, they always have an audience of bored people with SFA to do, who are just waiting to be outraged. LOL

Shocky,

"After pissing off their most avid fans, they won't be getting too many more royalty checks."

Well Lol!...as if they'd wish their creative product to be hijacked by a mob of fearful simple-minded dolts who get their jollies from dribbling loyalty to some racist trouble-making, ex-Sri-Lankan religious nutter winding them up with a few Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! - Oi!, Oi!, Oi!'s.

Extraordinary how you blokes can promote the likes of this cringe-worthy dingbat.

OTB,unless you like obscure European pagan, metal, neo-folk or martial music all of your favourite contemporary performers are useless lefties, 100%.

Poirot, I'm not promoting anyone.
But these celebrities cluelessly presume they are (even though they have no control of other people's actions).

So feel compelled to make some public condemnatory statement (or remove videos, which many other people may have linked to!).

This however sends a broader message than they intend.

It is prissy and condescending, alienating not just those who attend these protests, but the wider Australian and even international audience.

Once this "aristocratic" message is sent, it can't be unsent.

Law Of Power #4: Always say less than necessary (in this case, nothing).

Remember those bonfires of rock'n'roll and disco records?
Beware the wrath of Regular Guy.

Wasn't Mr James BARNES in his earlier life, a drug taking Bankrupt who was once described by a R&R critic as not being able to hold a note ? The song 'I was only Nineteen' was considered offensive by many VV's, implying we were all a bunch of cry-babies, worse 'girl's blouses' ! Bluegum' or whatever their name was, didn't accurately reflect nor represent the true issues that confronted many Vietnam Veterans upon their repatriation back to Australia.

Paul,
Well I say congratulations to George Christensen for supporting and speaking at the Reclaim Australia rally. Also to Pauline Hanson for speaking at another rally and to Senator Cori Benardi for his statement of support.

Let us hope that their example of speaking out will encourage other politicians to voice their opposition to the failed ideology of multiculturalism and to put a stop to further Islam immigration.

I am told that 15% to 25% of muslims hold extreme views, so if we take and average of 20% that simply means there are about 100,000 muslims here that hold extreme views. That is far too many extremists for the safety of our citizens. We should encourage those that want to fight in Syria to go and not return. The more that are here the greater to risk of a catastrophy like occurred in London 10 years ago. The risks are far too high to be ignored.

Article related to George Christensen speaking at rally.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-19/george-christensen-addresses-extreme-islam-at-mackay-rally/6632006

Jay Of Melbourne,

I reckon you are correct in your assessment.

Where are all those countries that have successfully integrated their Muslim citizens?

C'mon there must be at least one country that has a successfully integrated Muslim minority.

IS Mise,
South Africa, they actually have more Muslims than France.

O Sung,
Yeah, well, my recollection of that "re connection" with Australian folklore and patriotism which began in the mid to late 60's and continued until the mid 1980's with acts like Redgum, Roaring Jack and even to an extent Midnight Oil is that it was mostly a ruse by the Maoist elements of the left.
They held to Mao's ideal of "natural socialism" in the Australian working class which could be activated by calling on the memory of class struggles past, Eureka, the shearers strikes, the lean years and hardships of pioneering, the great depression etc.
When I was growing up "right wingers" wouldn't have been seen dead at a Bushwhackers concert or a bush poetry reading, the highlights of their year were the debutante ball, the agricultural show and the annual Gilbert and Sullivan or Oscar Wilde production by the drama club.
I've tried to point out to the UPF and Reclaim followers on Facebook that most of their ideals of patriotism came from the Little Red Book as interpreted by the authors of the Kalkadoon press, but they don't want to hear about it.

Hi there JAY of MELBOURNE...

I couldn't agree with you more, concerning artists of the 'sixties. Something I do recall vividly of those times, was the Waterside Workers Federation refused to load the vessel, HMAS 'Jeparit' which was due to carry all our 'heavy' mail articles (packets & parcels) from our family and friends, to those of us serving in Vietnam. You see JAY of MELBOURNE, the wharfies decided to deny the Aussie troops over there, gifts from home, in order to make some political point about the War itself ? I can assure you, we all harboured an intense hatred of the Wharf Labourer's Union, thereafter.

Jay,

South Africa's Muslims are for the most part peaceful but they are not integrated as their push for Sharia law shews.

So I'm still waiting.

Dear Is Mise,

You asked for at least one country.

How about Albania.

cont'd ...

Then of course there's also - Lithuania,
Indonesia, Azerbaijan, Croatia, just to mention
a few more. Malaysia also comes to mind.

The following website is an interesting read:

The author tells us that -

"Commenting on "Reclaim Australia," is in some ways
boring and depressing. It is a movement of vulgar,
anti-intellectual bigotry..."

He then goes on to explain why:

http://newmatilda.com/2015/04/17/awful-truth-what-reclaim-australia-reveals-about-our-nation

I've just found the following site that explains
that we have nothing to fear but fear itself
and maybe ISIS, terrorism and Muslims and
actually everything:

http://newmatilda.com/2015/07/23/nothing-fear-fear-itself-and-maybe-isis-and-terrorism-and-muslims-and-everything

Foxy, Albania is majority Muslim, therefore no need for "integration".

They are also one of the poorest countries in Europe, despite the allegedly magic "privilege" being White bestows.

The only rich Muslim countries are those that fluked standing upon a natural resource needed by modern vehicles.
Change the fuel or the vehicles and they will all be poor.

Dear Shocker,

Yes living standards in Albania are extremely low
compared with those of other European countries.
The incomes of most Albanians are small, but
health care, social services, and education are free.

Albania's government went far in opposing the practice of
religion. From 1944 to 1990, Albania's Communist Party
exercised almost complete control over the government and
the economy and allowed the people few rights.

In 1990, however, the government once again allowed the
public practice of religion and places of worship began to
re-open. Today about 70 percent of the people are Muslims,
about 20 percent belong to Eastern Orthodox Churches
and about 10 percent are Roman Catholics.

They all manage to co-exist.

Foxy, what was your point in sharing the article from New Matilda? It would seem that perhaps you may be suggesting, via the article, that it is irrational to have a concern about ISIS.

Note, the article's title uses the word fear, but the survey it quotes asked people about their concerns. 69% of Australian are concerned about ISIS; is that odd. Well no if you look at the other country's results: Lebanon leads the world with 84%% concerned about ISIS followed by 77% of Spaniards, and the UK, France, the USA, Canada, Germany & Italy are with similar percentages to Australia.

So although the author is insinuating Australians are stupid to be concerned about ISIS or Daesh as he chose to call them, we are in sync with the most of the major countries in the West. The concerns are valid because the threat is real.

I really found that was a strange article. Throughout the whole piece Michael Brull was essentially just putting down the government (or more pointedly Abbott and Julie Bishop, via insinuation rather than hard facts), but he didn't really have anything other than his opinion to back it up.

Its disappointing you could get sucked into thinking Brull had a point other than a cheap shot. He was the one leaping to conclusions that to be concerned about ISIS is tantamount to Muslim bashing. I think he proved himself to be what those on the right, would rightly call a lefty stooge.

Dear ConservativeHippie,

My point as always is to present alternative
perspectives to any issue for consideration.
To try to broaden the discussion so to speak.
To make people think and take another look at
what we're being presented with by our politicians
and mainstream media (that runs along mostly
predictable lines).

I am disappointed that you got so little out of the
article. However, whatever floats your boat.

cont'd ...

BTW - I don't think it is irrational to have
concerns about ISIS. It is a terrorist organisation.
What is irrational as the author points out is
movements like Reclaim Australia - and what they
stand for.

Lithuania:
Not your typical example of Islam, they are certainly well integrated but "Due to the long isolation from all the greater Islamic world, the practices of the Lithuanian Tatars differ somewhat from the rest of Sunni Muslims; they are not considered a separate sect, however, although some of the Lithuanian Tatars practice what could be called Folk Islam"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Lithuania

Indonesia:
Doesn't count as it is a majority Muslim (87.2%) country where there have been numerous murders of non-Muslims.

Azerbaijan:
Doesn't count as over 90% of the population is Moslem.

Croatia:
Interesting Muslim history and they are certainly integrated in that State, however there may be a fundamental flaw
"In the 1960s, Muslim community advocated for the recognition of the Bosniaks as a nationality in SFR Yugoslavia. The 1974 Yugoslav Constitution allowed for the official recognition of the Muslims as a nationality, therefore allowing more individuals to declare their alignment with a compromise categorization of Muslims by nationality, in this case separated from a religious basis. For example, Džemal Bijedi&#263;, a communist federal prime-minister was a declared "Muslim" and an atheist. The introduction of new categorization may be considered as one of root causes of the sudden spike in the number of individuals declaring themselves as Muslims...."(Wiki)

Malaysia:
Muslim majority again, so no points.
"Parallel to the civil courts, there are Sharia courts which conduct legal matters related to Muslim family sphere. Legal issues like Muslim divorce and Muslim apostasy are conducted in the Sharia Courts. However, there are cases whereby apostasy cases are tried in the Federal Courts. Non-Muslims are not bound by Shariah." (Wiki)
Not an indication of integration.

Try again.

Conservative Hippie.
I was part of an interesting exchange at the Reclaim rally on Saturday.
A middle aged patriot who found himself essentially surrounded by Anti Racist protestors began to repeat his "right wing" talking points about Sharia law, the treatment of women under Islam and so forth.
At first the Anti Racists tried to physically intimidate him, that failed because he was a huge man and by that point several other people including myself had come to his side. When shoving and threats failed to dislodge him they then tried to mock, tease and humiliate him, that failed as well as the man just laughed in their faces and clowned around, waving his Australian flag and dancing about with them.
Then they tried shame, a little old White haired lady about 70 years old arrived on the scene and using her best primary school teacher tone demanded that he hand over his flag as he was being disrespectful and a naughty boy. This produced gales of laughter from both sides and at this point a big fat Lesbian ambushed the patriot from behind and grabbed his flag while a girl in a rabbit costume threw a handful of glitter in his face, he roared with laughter and threw up his hands saying "Fine! It's OK!".
The worst was yet to come, the horror of the "debate" was next, a skinny dude in his forties, a stereotypical Marxist "intellectual" in a flat cap and sunglasses began questioning the patriot's talking points. This went on for some time with myself and a group of patriotic women interjecting and everyone talking over the top of one another. Cont..

Cont..
The Marxist "debate" strategy boiled down to spouting gibberish and nonsensiscal talking points until someone would say "Huh? what the hell are you talking about?" at which the dude would exclaim "Aha, you need to educate yourself my friend!". When that was going nowhere the Marxist who had been joined by a friend at this stage tried conciliation, "Well we can all agree that ALL religions are no good right?" and abruptly changed his tone to a matey, blokey air, de escalating the argument to a point where he and his opponent professed "respect" for each other's right to free speech and parted ways.

Conservative Hippie, the hard Left don't have any real point of view or even an ideology anymore, they simply stand opposed to certain things just for the sake of opposing them. If they can't physically intimidate an opponent, they try to mock them, then shame them and then simply baffle them with a torrent of gibberish, if all else fails they'll conciliate and AGREE with a person who minutes before they were loudly denouncing as "Fascist"!
New Matilda and the like are part of that school marmish shaming tactic which works on the "empathiser" personality types, for the "systemisers" they have simple chants and rote actions to perform, it's that simple but the simplicity betrays the void behind the Left wing bluster.

JoM,

"I was part of an interesting exchange at the Reclaim rally on Saturday.
A middle aged patriot who found himself essentially surrounded by Anti Racist protestors began to repeat his "right wing" talking points about Sharia law, the treatment of women under Islam and so forth.
At first the Anti Racists tried to physically intimidate him, that failed because he was a huge man and by that point several other people including myself had come to his side. When shoving and threats failed to dislodge him they then tried to mock, tease and humiliate him, that failed as well as the man just laughed in their faces and clowned around, waving his Australian flag and dancing about with them.
Then they tried shame, a little old White haired lady about 70 years old arrived on the scene and using her best primary school teacher tone demanded that he hand over his flag as he was being disrespectful and a naughty boy. This produced gales of laughter from both sides and at this point a big fat Lesbian ambushed the patriot from behind and grabbed his flag while a girl in a rabbit costume threw a handful of glitter in his face, he roared with laughter and threw up his hands saying "Fine! It's OK!".
The worst was yet to come, the horror of the "debate" was next, a skinny dude in his forties, a stereotypical Marxist "intellectual" in a flat cap and sunglasses began questioning the patriot's talking points. This went on for some time with myself and a group of patriotic women interjecting and everyone talking over the top of one another."

Thanks for that.....you write as if it's an impressive gathering.

This is the sort of confrontation and rabble that the Abbott govt has dog-whistled into existence.

Appealing to base instincts produces base reactions - not civil discourse.

Why are you celebrating our descent into melee?

Dear Is Mise,

Nah. It would be a waste of my time to
try again for you because no matter what
I may come up with - you're simply going
to take it as "the exception that proves the rule,"
as you've done thus far.

I shall leave you to your beliefs.

Shame, Poirot!

Elitist Poirot is highly judgemental and censorious where ordinary citizens exercising their right of free speech is concerned.

Poirot would have them know that it is the leftist elite who presume to always know what is best for everyone else, so they can bugger off.

Far from condemning free speech, which is the way of the totalitarian leftists, in a democracy we should welcome it, only requesting that there be consideration for others who must use thoroughfares and run businesses and that they be civil and obey laws of course.

It used to be usual for speakers to gather in certain parks in cities. They were shown every politeness and the heckling was generous to a fault. They and their transient audiences were part of city life.

Regrettably there are now the attention-seeking professional activists who seem to pop up anywhere and everywhere and seem to get their buzz out of making others, particularly authority, do their bidding. It is a power thing for them and they are prone to shouting down and disrupting anyone who doesn't fit their image and opinion.

Nasty types who would prevent the exercise of free speech should be be shown the door, or feel the hand of arresting police.

Poirot,
I should add that neither side has even the vaguest idea of what they're doing or a long term objective apart from fighting each other, as I said, it's a bunch of White people punching on in the street over Islam, while the Mohammedans stand on the sidelines watching and no doubt biding their time.

"Shame, Poirot!

Elitist Poirot is highly judgemental and censorious where ordinary citizens exercising their right of free speech is concerned.

Poirot would have them know that it is the leftist elite who presume to always know what is best for everyone else, so they can bugger off."

Nice try, otb.....you're in favour of dog-whistled unrest on our streets then?

What say, we all go down to the main street for a bit of belligerence, shoving and biffo - that's the way a society should conduct itself.

Don't come bellowing to me about "shame" because you feel like having a go.....Mr:

"I cannot say I represent sartorial elegance by any means, but (for example) I do own pairs of dress shoes for starters and no, business shoes are not stand-ins for them. I enjoy formal occasions and could not imagine a year where we didn't attend at least two balls. For a meal out of an evening I wear a light suit minimum or at least a nice jacket. Why go to a restaurant where those are not the usual dress expectations? -There would be no sense of occasion and no respect for the lady you escort as well."
(Posted by onthebeach, Sunday, 12 October 2014 9:37:40 PM)

You are so full of it, you wax lyrical about such things, but are happy to see supposedly civilised Aussies descend into melee - and call it "free speech".

"Nasty types who would prevent the exercise of free speech should be be shown the door, or feel the hand of arresting police."

Go and take a funny run, you silly little man...JoM has a far better handle on this nonsense than you could ever hope to:

"Poirot,
I should add that neither side has even the vaguest idea of what they're doing or a long term objective apart from fighting each other, as I said, it's a bunch of White people punching on in the street over Islam, while the Mohammedans stand on the sidelines watching and no doubt biding their time.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Saturday, 25 July 2015 10:49:44 AM"

Poirot,

You intemperate reply does you no credit at all and serves to prove the very points I was making.

I don't resile from any part of my post. I don't need to because it is all spot on and relevant.

Foxy,

Your examples were mostly way off because none of them shewed a Muslim minority that had integrated into the mainstream culture and those that came close were suspect, especially the one that allowed communists who did not believe in Allah or the Koran to describe themselves as, and be officially recognized as Muslims.

So, I'm till waiting.

Any other takers?

otb,

"Poirot,

You intemperate reply does you no credit at all and serves to prove the very points I was making."

You post this type of thing to me:

"Shame, Poirot!

Elitist Poirot is highly judgemental and censorious where ordinary citizens exercising their right of free speech is concerned.

Poirot would have them know that it is the leftist elite who presume to always know what is best for everyone else, so they can bugger off."

And...

"Nasty types who would prevent the exercise of free speech should be be shown the door, or feel the hand of arresting police."

And then you shriek that I replied in an intemperate manner?

I merely served it right back at ya in the same manner to which you delivered it me.

If you don't wish to cop a serve, then curb your own intemperance.

Well Poirot, it is what it is.
The "right" can't explicitly attack Islam because of section 18c and the "left" can't explicitly support Islam because of political correctness, they've reached the limit of what they can do, hence the violence.
At one level OTB is correct, the White working class rightly see the organised Left as a middle class elite and the organised Right as some distant collective of religious nuts and patrician capitalists who sit atop ivory towers.
Is Mise' examples point out one of the problems with Australian multiculturalism, unlike in other societies it's never been properly defined much less explained to the White working class what their rights and responsiblities are under such a system. Because the original 1788-1948 population was never included in multiculturalism and has been scurrilously demonised in recent years it's now a widely held view that multiculturalism was something which was done TO us rather than for us.
The situation is beyond repair as far as I see it, we just have to live with ethnic enclaves, terrorism, immigrant crime and a continually declining standard of living, it's going to be a far poorer, uglier and more violent society than the one you and I grew up in because the civilised debate on multiculturalism and immigration that we should have had in the 1960's and '70's is no longer possible.

Poirot,

LOL, nice try but no bikkie for trying to put it back on me. It was you who spat the dummy.

Jay Of Melbourne, "The situation is beyond repair as far as I see it, we just have to live with ethnic enclaves, terrorism, immigrant crime and a continually declining standard of living, it's going to be a far poorer, uglier and more violent society than the one you and I grew up in because the civilised debate on multiculturalism and immigration that we should have had in the 1960's and '70's is no longer possible"

You are right. Successive federal governments have been very casual where the risks and claimed cost/benefit of immigration are concerned. There has been no public disclosure of any professional risk assessment conducted and little evidence of risk management. Instead it is all spin and optimism that the available laws and police can handle any unforeseen negative consequences. Economic 'Growthism' and left elitist idealism have driven policy. The public have been left out.

Dear Is Mise,

In Albania - since the fall of communism -
religion has made a come-back and Muslims
have integrated into the community rather well.

Also In Lithuania - Muslims have existed since
the 13th and 14th centuries. Many more were
settled there in the 15th century. These included
not only prisoners of war and refugees but also
voluntary migrants who came looking for a better
life. Grand Duke Vytautas once boasted to the
Teutonic Order that "Many had come to us, weary of
wars and yielding to our ways: they seek in our
land peace and a tranquil life."

Also, according to the "Encyclopedia Lituanica," Volume V,
"It is well known that on his (Grand Duke Vytautas)
expedition to the Black Sea (1397-98) he brought back Tatar
settlers of two distinct religious persuasions: Islamic and
Judaic. Three hundred representatives of the latter were allowed
to settle at Vytautas' residence at Trakai. Later their numbers
increased to 5,000. Known as "Kairaites" they were considerably
outnumbered by the Islamic Tartars who settled at or near
Asmena, Vilnius, Trakai, Alytus and other localities."

Today, there are mosques in Vilnius and Kaunas, and the people
practice their religion speak Lithuanian, and
are part of the community.

Poirot "What say, we all go down to the main street for a bit of belligerence, shoving and biffo"

It still hasn't gotten through, eh?
It's almost always the Left/Antifa/Anarchist crowd that starts any "melee".

They routinely "protest" other people's protests!
They will even protest (steel drums or garbage cans required) outside buildings where private meetings are being held *inside* and try to block the entrance.

With all these gay wedding cake lawsuits recently in other countries, you can bet the masked armed-linked chanting/screaming hysterical leftist fanatics would be the ones to bring the biffo to any Australian protest by religious/morally conservative bakers.

Of course, the meek and mild bakers would end up being implicated by the media in the nightly news reports.
"Riots erupts at anti-gay cake protest!"

Yes, onthebeach, whatever happened to the speaker's corner?

Today, you'd be breaking some namby-pamby "socially divisive/insensitive speech" law and get carted off in handcuffs.

otb,

"LOL, nice try but no bikkie for trying to put it back on me. It was you who spat the dummy."

Since it appears that your modus operandi on this forum is to put the boot in and shamelessly misrepresent your opponents - (not to mention the odd trolling expedition) - I imagine you'd consider it a feather in your cap every time you take the opportunity to accuse someone of "spitting the dummy".

Serve it up to me and you'll get it back in equal proportion.

Poirot,

FAIL! Second try to turn it all back on me. Heh, heh.

Whoops, you need the last word, so go for it.

Last word - Lol!

By all means, otb, you go for it....seems like you're enjoying this bit of "tot"-for-tat.

I'll leave you to it : )

Foxy,

Albania is a Muslim majority country so one would expect them to 'integrate' rather well.
Lithuania, I granted was integrated, but Lithuanian Muslims are a group apart from mainstream Islam and many of them, because of their religious practices, would be considered in error by more serious Muslims.

Keep trying,I know that it is an uphill battle but Suse and Poirot may come to your assistance.

Dear Is MIse,

Albania is only 43 per cent Muslim according to
a recent poll. Christianity is the second largest
religion in Albania.
Perhaps you're getting Albania
confused with Alabama. And Albania's Muslim population is
extremely well integrated. As are the Muslims in
Lithuania according to Encyclopedia Lituanica.

Talking about Muslim Communities -
We have some perfect examples in our own country -
for example the descendants of Afghan Cameleers .
And the descendants of Muslims who have
arrived in this country from Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon,
India, Russia, and many African countries.

I also think if you were to go to other countries globally -
you would find that Muslim communities do exist that have
integrated well. Of course fanatics and extremists also exist
every where in every religion. And unfortunately politicians
and the media make full use of people's fears for their own
gains.

Perhaps you need to do more research on the subject - and try
not to buy into all the media hype.
a library would be a good place to start.

For me this discussion has now run its course.

I wish you well - in your endeavour to understand a
globally complex situation.

Foxy,

All the references to Albania that I can find put the Muslim population at above 60%.
What is your ref. for the low figure that you give.

I'm glad that you mention Australia, but integrated isolated families do not make an integrated community and no one could call the Muslim community in Australia integrated.

So I'm still waiting for someone to shew me the integrated Muslim communities of the world.

France, and Great Britain come to mind but they do seem to be having some problems of late.

Is Mise,
Another way of looking at it is to say that individual conduct doesn't cancel out group conduct and vice versa.
It doesn't break my viewpoint to admit that I meet plenty of people who are very different to me who I get along with but at the same time they remain part of a group and will behave in a predictable manner when around their own kin.
I'll give you an example albeit of a very moderate nature.
My wife had a work colleague who was of Chinese background, lovely young girl, she sort of took her under her wing when she started and they were close enough that we'd take her out with us after work and have her around to the house at the weekend, we even bailed her out of a gambling debt once so her parents wouldn't find out.
Her twenty first birthday rolled around and her parents who were a well off couple with a big, luxurious house out at Mt Waverly threw her an extravagant party. When we arrived we were greeted by her Dad and uncles and shown through to a sort of gazebo-deck type area out near the pool where we were told the other "Aussies" had gathered.
What they'd done was set us up apart from the main party with our own waiter, a lamb on a spit and a buffet loaded with all the usual "Aussie" party tucker, a karaoke machine and a bin full of Crown lager on ice.
Great! Bloody luxury, we had good company, free eats and all we could drink, outdoor heaters, comfortable seats and a view of the sunset, all in all a top shely afternoon out.
We got stuck in to the grub got tipsy and had a high old time but none of the hundred or so Chinese people inside came near us and the only interaction came later on when we a few of us nosed our way into the recreation room where a group of younger Chinese had sneaked off to watch the footy on the big projection screen.

There's almost no reporting on these massive rallies in the north of the U.K, this is Nelson in Lancashire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4mZyEoePo
They're celebrating the prophet's birthday, this is why we call them Mohammedans, followers of Mohammed, a spokesman from the Ghausia Mosque in Nelson described it as a rally to draw the Muslim community together and to spread the word of peace among them.
In our society Christians also marched on Palm Sunday and dedicated the nationwide processions to justice for refugees, to Muslims in other words.

Jay Of Melbourne,

Had a quick look at that video and was struck by the abundance of old men, fearsome old sods from their scowling visages too, but no women.

Where the Christians are concerned it is always a family affair with women more than equally represented.

As well, the Christians are forever porting signs expressing their concern for peace and the wellbeing of others.

Islam seems so concerned with itself. Peace yes, but on its own terms, to put it diplomatically.

OTB,
Bear in mind Nelson only has a population of 29,000 and no Muslim women or girls were allowed to march, only 5,000 men and boys, so the town is over 30% Asian Muslim. Multiculturalism implies a multiplicity of cultures, in Nelson and other such areas such as our own Blacktown we see only two visible cultures where before there were many, Sunni Islam and Christian groups who these days merely act as an auxilliary to Sunni Islam. That's the "peace" Mohammed spoke of, a Muslim dominated society which tolerates other cultures only as long as they fully support and defer to Islamic rule.

Jay Of Melbourne,

Thank you.

Jay Of Melbourne, your Chinese friend's party brings up two issues.

1. People often say immigrants of any ancestry/culture are fine, as long as they're "law-abiding tax-paying good neighbours/workers".
That party shows the true story.

Certain types of people cannot and will not ever truly be "one of us", no matter how many law-abiding, tax-paying generations go by.

Is this inevitable fragmentation/segregation truly beneficial?
If not, why continue encouraging it?

2. If a White family did the same for their "coloured" friends, it wouldn't matter how "law-abiding tax-payer" they were.

They would be loudly denounced as Nazis, probably fired from their jobs and have bricks thrown through their windows (by complete strangers with no personal involvement, who feel they have the right).

Shockadelic,
Well it wouldn't happen at a party hosted by Whites and I think that's the real point.
OTB, You're welcome. I've spoken to non Muslims who've grown up in Muslim societies, day to day life isn't so bad for them but when any type of issue arises, a dispute with a Muslim or a legal problem with the government the minorities quickly find that they have no rights whatsoever. Again, the Mohammedan definition of peaceful coexistence only boils down to "We won't kill you as long as you're seen but not heard".

I have spoken with many Indians who have worked in Muslim countries and they have all said the same thing; have a dispute with a Muslim and it's 'here's your passport and a ticket back to India'. Goodbye!

However if they do as they are told, things are not bad; not real good, but not bad.

My wife was companion/nurse to an elderly lady in Bahrain for two years and was treated very well, but two years was enough because she was a virtual prisoner as she could not go anywhere unless accompanied; this was not so much for her own good as for the good name of the family, just in case she did something (even a social blunder) that would reflect on the family.

More peace and love from people so proud they mask their faces.
This time blocking entrance to a private meeting on private property (Australia First meeting on Saturday).

http://www.newzulu.com.au/en/videos/australia/2015-07-25/11321/video-sydney-anti-racism-protesters-target.html

Building a better world, one robotic chant at a time.

Perhaps this may explain the reasons some people may choose to wear masks:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1588360.htm

Please explain, Foxy.
I don't see the connection.

Fear of media coverage?
They want it.

Fear of revenge attacks?
Who is attacking who, when Lefties descend on a private meeting?

The "revenge attacks" of the "Middle Eastern" men didn't even target the Cronulla crowd, so they could hardly recognise faces.
They attacked *Maroubra* (Apparently they "can't tell us apart", any beach suburb will do).

Dear Shocker,

I will not be explaining anything to you.
You have told me that - I have nothing to
contribute to discussions. I accept that
is what you believe, and therefore
there is nothing more to be said.

And you're just proving my point.

First, a "contribution" that isn't even clear.
Then a second "contribution" refusing to explain previous "contribution".

You are just a non-stop embarrassment, Foxy.
Just like those masked slogan-chanters.
Ironically damaging their own cause with one clueless action after another.

Laughable.

Dear Shocker,

You can't have it both ways.

If you really believe that I have nothing
to contribute to any discussion - as you've told me - then
how can you blame me for abiding by your
statement and why would you consider it
embarrassing.

That's not logical.

Merely confusing.

You need to sort yourself out - and make up your mind.
You can't expect someone to contribute something
when you tell them they have nothing to contribute.

And another one hits the pile.

Remember Foxy, our side doesn't have to "win".
Yours just has to "lose".

Masked, elitist slogan-chanting bullies must inevitably lose.
Just a matter of time. :)

Dear Shocker,

You need to engage with posters who you feel have
something to contribute to discussions.
People who are kindred spirits - with the same sort
of mentality as yours.

I am not one of them and have no further interest
in engaging with you.

Ooh, that pile of "contributions" is really starting to stink up the neighbourhood.

I might have to call the council and have it removed.

Shocky,

Grow up....

Dear Poirot,

There's an old adage -

"You can't polish a turd,
but you can roll it in glitter."

Which is what I've tried to do.

Foxy,

A Coprolite is a turd and they polish up nicely, I have one as a paper weight.

Dear Is Mise,

What you've got is a stony mass.
A "dung stone." It has been fossilized.
And can indeed be polished.
It's not a fresh human turd.
Which is what we're talking about here.

Yours is animal waste that has been fossilized.
It doesn't smell bad.

Whereas a fresh human turd can't be polished,
and even though it can be rolled in glitter it
still remains a piece of shyte.

Does anyone still sell gas masks?

Foxy,

My Coprolite has been authenticated as a human turd and although fossilized is still a turd.

So turds can be polished, it just takes time!

Dear Is Mise,

In that case - even though it can scrub up rather well,
as you claim -
it's still a piece of shyte.

Thank You.