.

Dear ConservativeHippie,

.

« If Banjo's theory is correct, which is a big stretch, then as I see it, the human animal is the only one capable of greed and therein lies our inherent problem as a species. »
.

Not so, ConservativeHippie. This is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject about animal behaviour :

« Although a small handful of species share food stores, food hoarding is a solo endeavour for most species, including almost all rodents and birds. For example, a number of jays live in large family groups, but they don't demonstrate sharing of cached food. Rather, they hoard their food supply selfishly, caching and retrieving the supply in secret. »

Selfishness or “greed”, as you suggest, seems to be more frequent than altruism or “sharing” among those animals that accumulate and store food.

That is why I wrote that “many animal species practice “private capitalism” (individual accumulation and storage of food) and that this particular “natural phenomena obviously finds an echo in Adam Smith’s free market economic theory”.

Adam Smith is quoted as having said :

« It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. »

But he is also quoted as having said :

« Man is an animal that makes bargains: no other animal does this - no dog exchanges bones with another. »

« To feel much for others and little for ourselves; to restrain our selfishness and exercise our benevolent affections, constitute the perfection of human nature. »

Whereas, Karl Marx is quoted as having said :

« Capital is dead labour, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labour, and lives the more, the more labour it sucks. »

« The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property. »

But he is also quoted as having said :

« The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people. »

.

Never been a fan of neither point of view. They are 2 extremes. Communism would work well on paper, but in reality, not very much. Capitalism may seem tempting, but it creates huge problems.

George wrote
:
“I agree that a society calling itself free is something like a person calling himself clever, generous, etc. It is always relative, and for others to say in both cases. However, politicians need labels and slogans.”

Politicians may or may not need labels and slogans. One effective tactic of a politician is to claim he or she is not a politician but is running for office in opposition to a political culture.

It is our task as informed voters to see through the labels and slogans to determine what the politician's program really is. That is not always possible because the press is often slanted, and the politicians are often not straightforward.

Banjo Paterson quotes Marx. Marx was good at making witty aphorisms. Quite often they were completely wrong.

Marx wrote:

« Man is an animal that makes bargains: no other animal does this - no dog exchanges bones with another. »

Here Marx is completely wrong. The animal world is replete with bargains. The most successful insect societies are those of the social insects where the worker bees or ants works for the hive or nest and in return is given a home. Monkeys groom each other in return for support when threatened. The ancestors of dog, the wolves, hunt in packs where the prey is shared between all members of the pack not just those who did the killing.

Peter Kropotkin, a Russian geographer, economist, activist, philologist, zoologist, evolutionary theorist, philosopher, writer and prominent anarchist, wrote "Mutual Aid" which recounts the many instances of cooperation and bargaining in animal life.

« To feel much for others and little for ourselves; to restrain our selfishness and exercise our benevolent affections, constitute the perfection of human nature. »

The growth of altruism in society could possibly be due to the realisation of the benefits of reciprocity. “I’ll scratch your back. When I need it, you’ll scratch mine.” Altruism can be enlightened selfishness.

« The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.»

Karl might have howled if someone used his toothbrush.

for 2500 years religions have freed humanity from Chaos, Chaos being humans competing with each other for limited resources, murdering each other to take over each other's land. religions are basically leaderships maximising controls over the masses using an unproven magical god. priests speaking to a god with peasants unable to doubt whether an actual god exists. I say new religions of worshiping money has populations working to exhaustion, willingly competing with each other for limited resources, is no more than another religion tyring to maximise results. I would claim Capitalism is another works best when faith in capitalism is at its highest emotional stimulated beliefs. Capitalist finance news reports are no more than convincing confidence tricks. The new priests are politicians, the new god is market forces. the better convincing religions are, the fewer heretics there are to find.

Dear david f,
You are obviously not on the dole or the disability pension or indigenous or South Sea Islander or even a visitor (shoo don,t tell immigration I,m here) from New Guinea otherwise you would dutifully paying homage to the great god "Pokie"
But that is another story

Late to this thread, I've read "The Pitchforks" - thank you David.

I am not an economist nor would I pretend to be one, so as Nick Hanauer claims that the minimum wage is good for the economy I would for now accept his word at face value.

So what if it is good for the economy: what right has anyone to force others, under the threat of police and gaol, IN THE NAME OF ECONOMY, to deal between them in this way rather than in that way?

So what is common between communism and capitalism is materialism, or more specifically, placing the entity of economy above you and me and our individual freedom.

It just so happens that unlike communism which unabashedly tells people where to go, capitalism claims "let the mice run loose in this maze - they will come out right and bring us more cheese": both treat us as mice, economy-fodder.