Ok, ozepensioner, I take back the last comment, I apologise it was not a personal attack on you, but a general complaint on people who complain about super, but don't do any research or get advice.

As for hidden fees and charges, yes if you look at Industry funds they don't have to disclose all their fees, yet personal super funds do.

Do most people realise "Only run for the benefit of members" Hostplus sponsors the AFL and the board of Hostplus have a corporate box. 1% of the fees they charge goes to "corporate promotion". So how is that a benefit to members? Statewide super has a hidden 3% trustee fee (it is disclosed in their annual report but not their PDS)

Cbus members of the board (who are all union or ex-union members) earn between $120k and $500k a year. How can a "benefit to members" voluntary position be paid more than the prime minister?

At least with Colonial, AMP, Asgard, BT etc, all fees are disclosed in the PDS.

Why do industry funds spend millions on advertising, if you are already a member, how does that benefit you?

All I'm saying is I am amazed people plan their weekends better than they plan their investments and retirement. It's your money people!

If I had $50k, or $100k or more, I would not leave the investment decision to a newspaper or my employers chosen super fund

Ahhh - now you are "throwing a shrimp on the barbie".

You seem to have an issue with fees, and I will come to fees but it is small fish in comparison - and you already disposed of that yourself saying even WITH the GFC of 2008 thrown in Funds are giving >8% return [which of course is AFTER fees are taken out].

So with at in mind the next [should be] BBQ Stopper from Murray was

"Evidence suggests that the major worry among retirees and pre-retirees is exhausting their assets in retirement. An individual with an account-based pension can reduce the risk of outliving their wealth by living more frugally in retirement and drawing down benefits at the minimum allowable rates. This is what the majority of retirees with account-based pensions do, which reduces their standard of living."

He is confirming that MOST retirees are still ACCUMULATING after they retire [ie 8% minus 5% is 3% pa ADDED to their capital] and just WHO is that helping - HINT it is not the Retiree.

Are you starting to get the vibes on BigSuper now folks?

sorry, we must be confusing each other,

I don't see "Fees " as the big issue (only tax on super and Union thugs taking more than they should)

Retirees can purchase guaranteed capital or guaranteed income pensions and annuities.
So even with the GFC, Tidal waves, terrorist attacks and a Labor government, retirees can have a standard of living equal to or better than their working life, if they get good advice.

I thought this was a discussion on the lack of caring/knowledge of the average Australian in regards to super. I think we both went off on a different angle.

kirby483,

'All I'm saying is I am amazed people plan their weekends better than they plan their investments and retirement. It's your money people!'

I'm probably of average intelligence, but I find super terminology and rules quite hard going. It's a bit like someone explaining the intricacies of horse racing to me. I tune out.

So my problem is laziness, apathy, sure, but what of the less intelligent?

Is it not a tax on people who don't have the ability to comprehend the system. Or a time tax on people who don't want to study all the disclaimers and do a degree in economics to ensure they are not being shafted.

It seems to me there are two choices. Pay for someone to advise you, and then check up on all the ways that advise is tainted even though you are paying for it.

Research the stock market and superannuation and tax law and come up with your own schemes.

Seriously not many people except the ones most people avoid at parties are up for that.

It really puts these people in the position of having to TRUST someone (with ulterior motives as you freely admit) with more knowledge of the game. It is a game, with all those loopholes and it requires strategy.

I agree people should spend more time thinking about their super, but I'm still uneasy with a pretty corrupt industry given 9.5% of everyone's income to snort up their noses

Thanks again to both of you, but this is not about accumulation but about actually SPENDING the hard earned money.

The Murray Report and hence my OP Question was about the fact no man with a white beard comes up to you as you get your gold watch on retirement and says I have arranged that you will get $40,000 pa from your $400,000 Super and also $20,000 pa from the Age Pension - good luck.

In fact the new Pronk of CIPR IS to say that SHOULD happen and Murray Report explains his lousy idea of this where the $40,000 is just $20,000 [and I would advise you all to actually read it].

What DOES happen at present is there is a school of sharks circling around in a feeding frenzy just waiting for YOU [in your confused state] to ask for advice.

The Murray Report tones this down to:

"Information from stakeholders suggests that many retirees find it challenging to navigate the transition to the retirement phase of superannuation. When DC members notify their superannuation fund of their retirement, many funds recommend they speak to an affiliated financial adviser. Research has demonstrated that the quality of this advice can vary significantly. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some advisers have limited knowledge of longevity risk and how it can be managed. Although the Inquiry makes recommendations to improve the quality of advice, it will take time for such improvements to occur."

The result is "at least 94 per cent of pension assets are in account-based pensions" and in most cases that person with $400,000 dies at 85 with $600,000, after "living frugally".

THAT is what the BBQ Stopper should be about and why I am so unpopular with the Govt for explaining all this.

I saw this quote right here on this site:

“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable...”

Mencken

Quote

"According to Gruen, Australians spent about $20 billion, or more than one per cent of GDP a year, on fees to manage their super.

Gruen also referenced a Grattan Institute study that found if fees were halved, lump sums in super would eventually be 15 per cent higher, and retirement incomes would go up 20 per cent.""

---

Agreed to a point

BUT we must not forget that fees are based on the SIZE of the "nest egg" and not only keep going on retirement but INCREASE by 91% once the Super is converted to an Account Based Pension [remember Murray says 94% of retirees DO that].

Now I ask you, is there any way one of these sharks is going to advise you to actually DrawDOWN your capital? Not on yer Nellie. Or are they going to tell people the TRUTH re Grandfathering? - definitely not on yer Nellie

Hence as Murray confirmes, BigSuper simply scares the Little Ozzie Pensioner into "DrawingDown" just the Min 5% pa and "living frugally" while BigSuper makes billions.

As Kirbs tells us, even with GFC of 2008 [the scare tactic used by BigSuper] the funds are returning 8%, and over last 5 years an average of 12%, all of which results in big fat fees.

Oh yeah, and the increase in capital will ensure that if you start off getting some Age Pension, it will soon dwindle to zero [along with your Health Card].

And all of this stupidity by the Pensioner could be solved by talking it over with HONEST FOLK [ie without snout in trough] at the Barbie.