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The Forum > General Discussion > At what point is a not for profit organization, a business.

At what point is a not for profit organization, a business.

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Yabby,
They do have to provide a financial statement to the Government.
http://exwwwsvh.stvincents.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=331&Itemid=355
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 16 January 2015 9:22:25 PM
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Josephus, there is no report there as to what the Catholic Church does with its profits in Australia and how much profit they make on all their real estate holdings etc. Those are not accounts.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 16 January 2015 10:04:56 PM
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Owning a church or place of worship is one thing, but when the likes of churches compete in the open market for real estate, it's my belief that they have stepped outside of their protected tax free haven.

Individuals can donate to the likes of churches, and claim the tax write offs in doing so, then benefit from the use of say a holiday complex, purchased by the church. So in effect these individuals, and their families, can then holiday in very popular destinations, rent free, which an individual who's company owns a similar asset can't.

I say any asset acquired over and above the principle place of worship is an investment and as such should be treated with the same level of scrutiny as any other tax liable entity. Furthermore, in the event that such an asset is purchased, with tax free money, then the tax that would have been paid by a non exampt entity, should first be paid, with indexation, prior to, or as part of the process,, thus placing the church and all other interested parties on a level competitive playing field.I would also suggest that any asset aquired with tax free dollars should not be allowed to be used as security for borrowings out side of what's used to improve the asset, as this again offers a competitive advantage in the open market.

Once acquired, these assets and their use by owners, in this case members of the church, should then be subject to laws as per any other legal transaction.

At present, these assets, acquired with tax free dollars, are often rented out to the likes of schools, which generates more tax free income, providing further competitive advantages to the churches in the open market.

This is why I say it's a business.
Posted by rehctub, Saturday, 17 January 2015 6:53:10 AM
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rehctub, What absolute misinformation. Gifts to Churches is not tax exempt! We are having a Church camp next month and it is costing us normal off-season fees which is normal for Feb - March. If you believe this stuff no wonder you hold the opinions you do. Get the facts!

Lots of Churches use Public School assembly halls on weekends and pay rent for the use which benefits the school.

Any other organisation like Clubs does not raise your ire it is merely because of your attitude toward Christianity.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 17 January 2015 8:28:55 PM
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Josephus, my views on christianty you say. My views are that if people wish to worship some mythical being, that's their given right, just like those who believe their are space ships hovering above us just waiting to pounce. It's their given right to do as they please, provided they do not inter fear with others in doing so and this is where they cross the line, because they are taking tax free dollars, and competing for assets in the open market with tax layers. They are gaining an unfair advantage. Not only that, but I'm assuming that if they were to sell that asset for a considerable profit, I doubt that profit would be taxable, which means that 100% of their gain could be used to secure yet more tax free assets, creating even more of an unfair advantage.

By all means spend your tax free dollars on your church, but anything else should be treated as a business transaction and subjected to the same laws as all others.

As for donations, if you donate to any charity, used to be $2 or more, it's tax deductible. It's when that tax free money is used for commercial gain that the charity has stepped outside of it's tax free haven in my opinion.

These churches have multi million dollar parcels of lreal estate, often in prime positions, Caloundra and Coolum Beach are two that come to mind. When these prime pieces of real estate are used to generate income, then that income, which is tax free, is used to secure even more real estate, it's a business in every sense of the word.
Posted by rehctub, Sunday, 18 January 2015 7:17:41 AM
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Church-owned land is typically untaxed (no rates). Some most spectacular sites were simply given free. When a church organisation buys an additional block, the council does without the rates from that block. When one considers inner city church schools, one sees immediately that that many millions in rates are not collected, on sites that extend far beyond the original establishment but serve an exclusive few.

Rusty
Posted by Rusty Catheter, Monday, 19 January 2015 9:29:57 AM
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