Paraphrasing a recent post in another thread that has moved well off topic...

"The thing I find most interesting is it's the very ones who are so concerned about so called man-made global warming (Lefties and Greenies), who have no opposition to allowing more Muslims into the country. It's rather telling that where they advocate a precautionary principle to promote CO2 reduction, they are totally against using the same precautionary principle when it comes to avoiding the undeniable long term problems associated with Muslim immigration."

I agree.

Why do these people not believe the experience and warnings from England, France, Germany, the Netherlands have any relevance in Australia? Why are they so willing to gamble with our way of life for the sake of people that are essentially anti-democratic?

Whether or not the earth's global temperature increases by the IPCC's estimated 1-2 degrees over the next 100 years actually presents a life threatening concern is questionable. However the increasing Muslim population around the globe over the next 100 years is certain and will certainly impact/influence the societies in countries where the balance shifts in their favour.

This is not a matter of paranoia, racism or xenophobia - its the fact.

Another fact - ISIS members consider themselves Muslims and the true defenders of Islam. ISIS members practice an extreme/fundamental version of Islam, they are therefore Muslim whether we like it or not. Silly people in the defence of non-extreme Muslims can't kick ISIS members out of their religion. Saying ISIS, IS or ISIL are not real Muslims is just stupid, especially when coming from a non-Muslim.

The experience and warnings of European countries are certainly relevant to Australia, but they do not justify religious discrimination. Trying to exclude Muslims is likely to not only be ineffective, but also counterproductive.

Our way of life is not under threat. And considering three of the four European countries you've mentioned have legalised gay marriage in the last few years, I think it's pretty far fetched to claim theirs is.

We do need to combat the threat of terrorism, and I'd support tougher laws against using any place of worship to promote terrorism. I'd also be in favour of barring anyone from immigrating or becoming an Australian citizen unless they commit to opposing all terrorist groups. But religion itself is not a good reason to keep anyone out, and trying to do so would just lead to more injustice.

As for global warming, a very substantial cut in CO2 emissions would be needed to limit the rise to 1–2 degrees over the next hundred years.

Conservative Hippie

the reason the regressives blatantly deny their failed dogma is because they know they are to blame for the wasted billions on their religion and the total destruction of democracy from their failed dogma. The left have always been heroes at creating chaos and then blaming everyone else and wanting more tax payer funds to clean up their mess. They encouraged ghettos ignoring every bit of evidence that showed clearly societies being destroyed wherever muslim immigration reaches about 2%. They need to vent their 'moral ' outrage towards 'polluters ' even know many of them live like kings consuming much more than most. Usually it is the inward moral corruption that produces such a outward moral rage in their behaviour.

Aidan, "Trying to exclude Muslims is likely to not only be ineffective, but also counterproductive"

However immigration policy and intakes should not put the population and way of life at risk by taking migrants from countries/regions where the political system, culture and traditions are diametrically opposed to our own.

As is very evident from the UK, the toxic political system, culture and traditions that corrupted government and even caused police to deny protection and assistance to the child sex slaves, and the drug trafficking that went with it, were imported from the Kashmir region of Pakistan.

While immigration policy can be non-discriminatory it must be discriminating, or government fails to protect the safety, welfare and best interests of the host population.

Why are the righties and religious libbies whining to us on this forum about the immigration policy of their holy Abbott's Government?

The Liberals are in power now, so surely all will be well?
We can all forget the Bible's words of "Love Thy Neighbour", and change that to
"Love thy non-Muslim Neighbours".

There will be no need to worry about other cultures or religions in any case, as climate change will be the undoing of our planet long before any humans can destroy it....

Suse please print off this last post of yours, & put it away carefully for a decade or 2.

When you are freezing your ass off, with energy too expensive for you to afford heat, in the growing new low sunspot caused little ice age, & living in a barbed wire enclosure to avoid losing your head to the marauding Muslim mobs, pull it out, read it, & have a cry at the stupidity of the left.

I have stored a few howlers from you folk, to show to any of my great grand kids who may be silly enough to get any lefty ideas.

Night fell and with it along came resident radfem suseonline to deliver the daily burn.

Today the target for the spray has broadened a bit. You go, Grrl and don't you let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't do do when you are way better at telling them (and how! LOL).

Others (at least one) concerned about suseonline's wellbeing have helpfully suggested that a walk in the park or even some chocolate could give her much the same mental 'zing' as her angry drive-bys and are healthier options.

Hmmm, maybe put a hold on that chocolate where spreading girth is problem.

The root of progressivist sin:
http://alternative-right.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-root-of-progressivist-sin.html
Pets of convenience:
http://alternative-right.blogspot.com/2014/11/pets-of-convenience.html

"Conversely, the attitudes of “colour-blindness”, “anti-racism” and so-called “self-abasement” seen in educated and privileged whites are in reality the fruit of an overweening sense of racial superiority: these whites can tolerate the shrieking of angry minorities, and even utilise them in their own power struggles against traditionalist and lower-class whites, because they have far too much psychological security to see minorities as any sort of threat. (Kneeling before a black means nothing; kneeling before a “redneck,” “chav,” or “bigot” would be far more humiliating.) In this sense, the ‘PoCs’ are perfectly correct to insist that white racial arrogance has survived intact from the age of colonialism up to the present day; but far from being confined to unfortunate lapses and marginalised ideas, this racial arrogance is found at the very vanguard of the “anti-racist” moral code that dominates the higher end of white society.

The problem for the integrity of the ‘PoCs’ is that they, along with these hypocrites of whites, are in the same “anti-racist” vanguard with a similar hypocrisy: they want to knock whites from their pedestal of deluded grandeur and reduce them to one culture among many, when to do so in fact would create the same nationalistic self-interest – and intolerance for whinging foreigners – that are seen in almost every non-white country from Mexico to China. Thus the ‘PoC’ activists have perfected, whether consciously or otherwise, the craven arts of the pet: biting the hand of the master hard enough to excite him but never long enough to draw blood; playing to the smug middle-class gallery with a stand-up routine full of insults and obscenities without ever going as far as to, say, draw a gun and start shooting from the stage."

"I have stored a few howlers from you folk, to show to any of my great grand kids who may be silly enough to get any lefty ideas."

And you really think your grandkids are going to survive?

After we get our guns back, yes.

"After we get our guns back, yes."

Lol!

What is needed in this discussion as in
others on this forum is critical thinking
without pre-determined bias.

The following link may help towards this end:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/archive/MuslimAustralians

Hi there SUSEONLINE...

I do understand what you're saying in terms of 'love thy neighbour', an important principle for sure, and I admire you for it. However, it's neigh impossible to make a friend, or be a friend to some people who lead such an insular lifestyle, whereupon they choose only to mix with their own kind. While it is true, there are some lovely Muslim people, one I know is quite senior in the AFP, and a nicer more genuine bloke you'd never meet !

There are many others though, who'll either politely shun any overtures of friendship, and still others again, who'll invariable dismiss it altogether ? And we're all, well aware of some of them, who simply view you with complete loathing and suspicion, and regard you as their mortal enemy !

Personally I believe, in order to make a friend, you need to be a friend, and I honestly believe they (some of these Muslim folks) should also extend the hand of friendship too. Otherwise, however can they expect to become accepted in our society ? And SUSEONLINE, it is 'OUR' society, make no mistake about it.

In conclusion, most other ethnicities, have very successful integrated and assimilated themselves into Australian society ? Therefore I think it it's incumbent upon each Muslim individual and family to likewise, try and accept our standards and practices, in order to successfully fit into our broader community, for their own long-term benefit ?

onthebeach, "However immigration policy and intakes should not put the population and way of life at risk by taking migrants from countries/regions where the political system, culture and traditions are diametrically opposed to our own. "
Your assumption that taking such migrants endangers our population and way of life is dodgy. Many are trying to get away from "their own" culture and traditions and would value ours more highly because of that. Why would you want to deny them that opportunity?

"As is very evident from the UK, the toxic political system, culture and traditions that corrupted government and even caused police to deny protection and assistance to the child sex slaves, and the drug trafficking that went with it, were imported from the Kashmir region of Pakistan."
So we must NEVER let Political Correctness take over here the way it did in the UK.

How can one percent of people in this country
- which is the given
percentage of Muslims in Australia -
have a negative effect on the rest of us.. And BTW -
many are fifth generation Australians with no record
of any kind of violence.

The current political stance and media hysteria has
a lot to answer.

cont'd ...

Another link worth a read:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-02-23/brullleaders/44400

O Sung Wu, I do see where you are coming from, but do we really have such a big problem of non-integrating Muslims in our country?
Or is it just the media trying to drum up customers on bad news days, and honing in on the paranoid bigots we have in our society?

We have a much more tolerant society of multicultural people here in Australia, and I have no doubt that just like the outcry over the Italians, Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants by other bigots in the past, this anti-Muslim ranting willl die down.

Until the next lot of 'foreigners' are targetted....sigh....

For me its simple - I've got no problem with anyone from any religion or culture that is willing to come into Australia, learn English if they don't already speak it, adopt or at least accept others living the lifestyle and values of our modern society. I've got no problem with the Muslim people who are 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation Australians as long as they have no problem with the Australian way of life.

My concerns are solely based on allowing more uneducated, unskilled, third world Muslim immigrants into the country because these are the ones who are more likely to not fit in and eventually segregate themselves into their own enclaves.

We don't have a problem currently. But if 1000's of the above were allowed to enter, and according to the stats have 4 - 8 children per family, there is strong possibility a problem similar to the European experience will eventuate. Japan doesn't allow Muslim immigration, the Muslim world accepts Japan's position and life goes on. We can all learn to accept and appreciate the Muslim community within Australia as it is. 1% is just fine.

Not that we would want to, but for an Australian and especially a Aussie woman to immigrate to a Muslim country they would have strict policies and expectations for our behaviour. There are certain givens within our lifestyle, such as short skirts that would be against the law in most Muslim countries.

As for Muslim immigration - nip it in the bud is what many of us are saying.

Aiden, "Your assumption that taking such migrants endangers our population and way of life is dodgy. Many are trying to get away from "their own" culture and traditions and would value ours more highly because of that. Why would you want to deny them that opportunity?"

It is prudent risk management to do so. Your only 'solution' is to cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Why should Immigration be refusing migrants from countries such as Ireland and Germany with skills that are in short supply such as in the blue collar trades - where their training and techniques are often better than in Australia - and giving preference to unskilled from places like Pakistan who not only are going to be Centrelink clients for life, but will be bringing in relatives who similarly dislike Australia and want their own corrupt political systems instead?

Non-discriminatory immigration is an aim, and should not be a sentence for a future of disharmony for Australia.

Another thing, prudent risk management should also require intending migrants to prove their good character and freedom for criminal past and connections. The default should never be that they luck citizenship because they come from a corrupt political system and have been able to escape conviction for offences that would be crimes in Australia.

It is plain dumb to operate policies and procedures that result in the importation of the feared Russian Mafia to Australia for instance and that has regrettably been allowed to occur.

Coservativehippie.
The only Muslim society I've been to is Lombok in Indonesia over 20 years ago and the women didn't seem particularly "oppressed", we didn't only go to the tourist spots either, we went into town to the market and up into the hill villages. The Sharia militia were noticable, the middle aged guys in the black hats carrying the rattan canes and we were told by the owner of the bungalows where we stayed to be careful of them but most of the girls were bareheaded and dressed in traditional sarongs and short sleeved shirt.
You could get a drink in the restaurants and the convenience stores and supermarkets sold a small range of alcoholic beverages, Bintang, San Miguel and that horrid local "white lightning" they put in every cocktail.
Much is made of Muslim "oppression" of women but the more you look into it the less black and white the picture becomes:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/gynocentrism/the-myth-of-patriarchal-oppression-in-iran/
I mean for god's sake, you see Muslim girls around our way dressed the same way as white women from the neck down, the yoga pants and the long sleeved sports top, with the tracksuit top tied around their waist for modesty, they just top it off with some bright purple or blue sequined hijab instead of a baseball cap or sun hat.

OTB,
The Irish "navvies" and German "arbeiters" can stay where they are thanks, what we need are more apprentices and trainees, not more immigrants taking jobs. If they streamed kids into the areas most suited to their intellect and ability after year 8 like they did when I was at tech school instead of teaching everyone the same load of bollocks geared toward useless arts degrees we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Hi SUSEONLINE...

I accept there have been bigots targeting every nationality that have chosen to settle here over the years, and it's a jolly hard job to eradicate this form of prejudice.

However with Muslim immigration there has occurred a whole new set of problems accompanying many of them, as they take up residence in our fair country. I agree, the media serve nobody but their own interests, by distorting and publishing material that amounts to being patently untrue, nevertheless they're a law unto themselves, regrettably.

What the problem is here, radical Islamicization has actually happened ! Unfortunately neither police nor government seem to have any idea how it should be interdicted ? By appealing to their collective sense of, seeking community harmony, or any other passive or conciliatory measure ? In fact, any notion of appeasement or mediation is seen as a real weakness, or incapacity to do anything positive, one way or the other.

Unfortunately, we've all seen the deleterious effect of unrestrained Islamic settlement. By witnessing how the previously appealing character and image, of several of Sydney's, South Western Suburbs, have now been indelibly denigrated and run-down, possibly for all time ?

Moreover, these areas have now fallen under the influence of some very vocal, very extreme, Imam's ? Many of whom now believe themselves as influential enough to be considered, the local Caliphate. Therefore allowing them to peddle (unrestrained), much of their destructive, ideological messages, not from the larger (or more public), conventional Mosques, but from ordinary residential premises, where the more moderate, Islamic leaders are positively 'not' invited, but albeit excluded.

SUSEONLINE, in my over thirty two years of police service, I've not known a more malevolent, more potentially menacing state of affairs, ever to confront our country. It's to be hoped that our government has our respective safety, well and truly in hand ?

'We have a much more tolerant society of multicultural people here in Australia, and I have no doubt that just like the outcry over the Italians, Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants by other bigots in the past, this anti-Muslim ranting willl die down.'

yep Susie still displaying her ignorance in regard to muslims being a race.

Teenagers aged 15 to 19 are Australia's most
dangerous people. This is according to the
new figures given by the Australian Institute
of Criminology:

http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-crime-facts-figures-report-show-teen-are-the-most-violent-australians/story-fncynjr2-1226645615303

How are we going to solve this problem?

"GOLD Coast bikie gangs are actively targeting hot-blooded young Muslim and Eastern European men as they seek to beef up their ranks with aggressive ethnic recruits.

Sources say gangs such as the Bandidos are embracing multiculturalism, signing up Lebanese, Turkish and Balkan members, many from Sydney and Melbourne.

The trend mirrors the early stages of the rise of crime gangs in southern states who recruited from ethnic groups, sources say.

Pacific Islanders such as violent Bandido and Muslim convert Leonard Toalei are also being targeted."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/criminal-bikie-gangs-boost-numbers-with-young-muslim-and-eastern-european-recruits/story-fnihsrf2-1226733840346?nk=3305eb57adb4feaee4f9a4e47291c794

"I'm no racist", Shadow, deluding yourself once more.

Beach your link to Murdoch's gutter press 'The Courier Mail' is a classic example of sensational journalism at its best. The stories core subject supposedly is a report on Gold Coast bikie gangs targeting hot-blooded (their words) young Muslim and Eastern European men as they seek to increase their ranks with these aggressive ethnic recruits. Could be a fair enough story.
The only reference to this being fact is the authors unnamed "sources", who are these sources the authors grandma? Murdoch's men Stolz and Robertson, the journalists, quickly ditch the core subject and devote three quarters of the story to a known criminal Leonard Toalei and his antics, along with the exploits of some real bad customers from the bikie gang the Bandidos.
If the gutter press had hard evidence of their initial claim, that is; bikie gangs targeting young Muslim and Eastern European men on the Gold Coast, why is it not in the story? Just maybe, they haven't got any hard evidence, have they.
The problem I, and many others have with Murdoch's gutter press is the way they present their material, just as the one above. Starts off with a sensational claim, then quickly move on to some irreverent, if not slightly related "facts", from something else which is somewhat vaguely related. It works well, fools many readers, especially those that get their news from Murdoch's NoNews Corp!

Both Beach and Shadow post lots of links to stuff from NoNews Corp. Why?

Yep, Runner runs in and has nothing to offer re the subject of this thread...he's too busy being nasty.

O Sung Wu, I honestly think any Australian Government has Australia's best interests at heart, deep down, as they are all Australians themselves. I can't see either the law makers, or the law enforcement agencies allowing any if these gangs to ultimately take over our country, can you?

At the end of the day, we have our laws and punishments that apply to ALL people in Australia, no matter where they are originally from, or their religions.
If these dreaded 1% of Australians that are Muslim decide to try and take over Australia, I am sure the rest of the population will prevail.

Shadow Minister "I'm no racist... (Lol!) ...."These Muslim illegals shouldn't be here in the first place, they don't look like us and they don't fit in. Same for those Pacific Islanders you mention. Australia is for Aussies."

Let's have a photo of you then SM, so we can all decide whether we like the look of you either! Technically, all Aussies that don't look like our original Aboriginal Australians should be asked to leave too then?

Suse & Paul,

The Shadow Minister you are addressing is not "Shadow Minister".

Bikies and Jihadis are totally different, Jihadis are brave,idealistic and motivated by religious conviction, bikies are the complete opposite they're cowards, parasites and criminals.
It's lazy and dishonest to use the word "Muslim" in place of "Hooligan", this goes back ten years now to the disturbances caused by Lebanese hooligans in Sutherland Shire, the crowd at Cronulla was chanting "F-off Lebs" remember?.
If they make it to age 25 some of these hoods will settle down and become Muslims, some of the more intelligent individuals might go on to become Jihadis but most don't.
The real Jihadis don't cause much trouble for the wider community, they're not stupid, they know that the easiest form of Jihad is to play the long game, live on the dole, work for cash and have six kids, the state pays for the "Jihad of the womb" and the dumb lefties protect it.

You are right Poirot, I see there are two 'Shadow Ministers' in the Users list.
I thought new members couldn't use the same name?

Obviously the new one is a troll who can't even think up a name for him/her self.
There should be more selective precaution on this site...

About climate change...yes the climate changes.

About CO2 being bad....without CO2 there would be no oxygen exhalers.

About immigrants....implement the type of naturalization tests you have to complete in the US .

Make the applicants sign a declaration on of understanding that if they are convicted of three race, religious, or terrorist based crimes they will have their citizenship revoked and they will be expelled.

Hi (again) SUSEONLINE...

What you say is true, we're ALL Australians. However from the information I've received from former colleagues, our response here (at home), to the current 'threat assessment' has been both slow, and thus far, quite ineffective.

It's not a case of some overt full frontal assault, the sort of tactics that is employed by an army, rather it's more a slow, tactical and strategic assault more by stealth, and that's the most worrying part of this whole equation ! Anyway, SUSEONLINE perhaps I and my former colleagues are simply wrong, very wrong ? I certainly hope so, for all our sakes. Good night to you.

Let's get a few facts straight. The percentage of Muslims in Australia in 2011 was NOT 1%, but 2.2%, or is and underestimate of about 45%. The Muslim religion is the FOURTH largest religious group in Australia.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Australia, "Islam in Australia is a minority religious affiliation. According to the 2011 census, 476,291 people, or 2.2% of the total Australian population, were Muslims.[1] This made Islam the fourth largest religious grouping, after all forms of Christianity (61.1%), irreligion (22.9%), and Buddhism (2.5%). Demographers attribute Muslim community growth trends during the most recent census period to relatively high birth rates, and recent immigration patterns.[2"

Geoffrey Kelley

onthebeach "It is prudent risk management to [deny people the opportunity to get away from the culture and traditions they're from]."
Far from being prudent, it makes people feel unwelcome. We should try to unite people, not alienate them.

"Your only 'solution' is to cross your fingers and hope for the best."
That is a lie.
I've already said I'd like to see restrictions barring permanent residency status and citizenship to everyone who doesn't oppose every terrorist organisation in the world. I'd be happy to have similar restrictions to ensure all immigrants support any of the human rights listed in the Universal Declaration.

"Why should Immigration be refusing migrants from countries such as Ireland and Germany with skills that are in short supply such as in the blue collar trades - where their training and techniques are often better than in Australia - and giving preference to unskilled from places like Pakistan who not only are going to be Centrelink clients for life, but will be bringing in relatives who similarly dislike Australia and want their own corrupt political systems instead?"
We should not accept that immigrants will be Centrelink clients for life. We should try much harder to get everyone into the workforce. Immigration should be profitable.

"It is plain dumb to operate policies and procedures that result in the importation of the feared Russian Mafia to Australia for instance and that has regrettably been allowed to occur."
The police and ASIO should be given greater anti-mafia powers.

To read this thread the reader is obliged to kick his or her way through an endless litter of dogwhistle references to “lefties”, “greenies” and even the occasional “righties”. I thought that that drivel came from immaturity but the penny has dropped: it’s not immaturity but dotage.

References to “our Australian ways” are similarly ill-defined in criticising newcomers for not adapting to them. Concepts much more relevant to Islam are those coined by American writer Allan Bloom: “openness” and “closedness”. A society based on the evolving values of the human (not merely Australian) Enlightenment is above all open. Islam is closed. Closedness, unless defeated ideologically and in every other way, is poison to an open society. In an addendum beyond my generous 350 word limit I’ll give an Islamic explanation of how.

What to do about it?

I recently submitted the following to Guardian Australia:

“Why do governments flood their countries, without voter permission, with enemies of liberty? And then impose increasingly draconian laws against the whole community on the pretext of security from those very same enemies?

“I suggest the increasing empowerment of securocrats is the main purpose behind flooding free countries with enemies of freedom.

“A question for every entrant to Australia: Do you pledge to respect the right of every human being to adopt, follow, abandon, promote, deride, obey, or disobey the dicta of your religion? If no, back on the plane. If yes, then any sign later of having lied in making the pledge to result in instant expulsion. Carrying placards calling for beheading people for insulting this or that cult or ‘prophet’ would do as a sign.”

This lasted an hour or so and was then kerzonked by the Guardian’s PC thought police. I assume they wanted to defend openness to closedness. By closure!

Addendum follows.

Addendum based in part on an account by Annabelle van den Berghe in the Guardian Weekly of 24.10.04

Moslems in their thousands are heading to the Middle East to serve their religion by enslavement, rape and murder. Their self-proclaimed goal is to close down all dissent ultimately over the world. Their authority is the Koran and as totally committed Moslems they know exactly what they are talking about. In an online article, ISIS said it was reviving an ancient custom of enslaving non-believers and forcing captive women to marry Moslem murderers who had executed their husbands in front of them. Ample Internet footage shows Moslems lining up captives and shooting them – heads exploding like water melons and all critical thought gushing out in the blood. Final Moslem closedness. Their online article stated: “One should remember that enslaving the families of the non-believers and taking their women as concubines is a firmly established aspect of the sharia, that if one were to deny or mock it he would be denying or mocking the verses of the Koran and the narrations of the ‘prophet’ (sic)”.

This is the religion to which we have given a bridge-head. It’s a religion that will respond to openness by closedness. So why has it not shut down the open society already? Simply because it doesn’t yet have the numbers within the civilised world. Give it even temporary ascendancy and see in Iraq and Syria and Pakistan and Afghanistan or in terrorist attacks worldwide just what it will do. Ask the faithful if they accept the right of apostasy, of impiety, of disobedience, of unbelief. If they do, without demur, they are acceptable citizens. If not, they’re not.

Thanks Poirot, did not think it was the "style" of "our" Shadow Minister to post that garbage. "Our" SM has a different "style" of garbage, more into supporting Bugsy Baird and the CORRUPTION PARTY (formally The Liberal Party of NSW). I have put in a delete request to GY to help protect "the good name" of "our" Shadow Minister.

Dear Conservative Hippie,

Before I leave this discussion I would
like to post a link that I think is
worth reading:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/team-australia-should-encorage-young-muslims-not-ban-niqabs-20141003-10prej.html

Thank You for providing us with a robust discussion.

I look forward to other discussions with you.

ConservativeHippie,

"The thing I find most interesting is it's the very ones who are so concerned about so called man-made global warming (Lefties and Greenies), who have no opposition to allowing more Muslims into the country."

Who just exactly are you referring to? Not myself. I'm an individual with a whole range of opinions - that go all over the place!

I support a reduction in business immigration to Australia, to reduce the impacts in terms of population impacts on the environment. There is already the natural population increase impacting on the environment in Australia - but I personally can't stop that.

I also support a humanitarian increase in terms of refugees and these people come from a range of backgrounds - these include Christian for example.

Also I'm wondering what is your view on the live export trade in Australia. Some think it's fine. I think it is disgusting - but of course people like yourself ConservativeHippie are always "right" or "left" aren't they?

By the way, I don't give any terrorist groups a title, as this gives them a form of recognition they do not deserve.

With the above in mind - maybe I'm just getting a bit too paranoid....?

Thanks Foxy. I read the article, which is slightly dated given the turn around in policy but the essence is something I can agree with in principle. It takes two to build a mutually beneficial relationship. Its great there are some Muslim youths who feel the need to get involved and spread a positive message.

"The most popular anti-violence YouTube video our team examined was produced by a group of young Muslims who have adopted Martin Luther King's slogan "silence is betrayal". This entirely community-generated campaign has almost 200,000 views."

I found the video on Youtube. It is not a specifically anti-violence, it is a two year old "free Syria from Hasad" video which demonstrates the brutality some Syrian people are suffering.

The author has mixed two different issues in an attempt to show there are some good Muslims within our communities. I don't believe anyone is saying there aren't.

There is a big question about the video the author doesn't address and that is the video could just as easily serve as an inspiration to go fight in Syria. The makers of the video are asking viewers to join the campaign. What's the logical extension of that?

Dear Conservative Hippie,

Thanks for reading my link.

It is a complicated issue - not doubt about that.

But I am pleased that we're able to discuss it on
a public forum such as this one. Reading a variety
of opinions is always helpful and hopefully
provides us with food for thought on the subject.

Foxy, I know the issue is complicated and all that, but in the interests of not actually ducking it as the Moslem who clashed with Emma Alberici did, I would be interested to see your unequivocal response to the question(s) in Conservative Hippie's final paragraph.