I've just seen a news program regarding the banning
of domestic rabbits in Queensland. It appears that
you are not allowed to have a pet rabbit in that
state even if its been desexed, microchipped, had
all of its injections, et cetera. Could someone
living in that state explain why this is so?
What's the reasoning behind this?

Thank You.

Rabbits are a feral noxious animal & therefore MUST be banned. Any introduced species can turn feral & destroy life & habitat in Australia. Take Cats, pigs, goats, Cane Toads & islamists for instance. Would you sanction the Introduction of American Fighting Dogs or any other such animal? even desexed.

Why is it that rabbits are banned only in Queensland
if they are such a noxious breed? Also we're talking about
domesticated rabbits here - not ferals. And domesticated
rabbits are not a problem in any other state. Neither are
other domesticated animals - who are looked after
properly.

Domesticated Animals get loose, people set them free when they don't want them any more. Take Wild Pigs, Wild Dogs, Wild Horses, Wild Camels, Wild Goads, Wild Cats, Wild Horses, Wild Cattle, Wild Deer, Carp, Cane toads & Islamists for instance.

They destroy Australian native wildlife & habitat that's why you don't introduce more invasive species to you State or Country.

Foxy sweetie, as a school boy in Bathurst, I used to make quite a bit of money, by schoolboy standard, digging rabbits out of their huge damaging warrens, for their meat originally. Butchers shops sold more rabbit than chicken in the 40s/50s. We ate quite a bit of it, & mum did a pretty good job of stewed or baked rabbit.

Later, after Myxomatosis was introduced everyone stopped eating them, but the skins were still worth enough to have us kids continue getting them. You didn't even have to ask landholders, you were welcome anywhere with mattock & shovel & rabbit dog, provided you did not have a gun.

Why does Queensland ban them? Well it could have been old Joh was smart, but I think it predates him. In the words of the song, "on the sure understanding that this kind of thing can happen", they are banned because they will escape & go ferrel if permitted. There were strains of mixed race domestic/ferrel rabbits around in my school days.

If you had seen the huge damage rabbit warrens were doing back then, you would agree with the ban, & buy the kids guineapigs.

Dear Jay and Hasbeen,

What I don't understand is that despite the bans in
Queensland there are apparently virtually thousands
of people keeping rabbits as pets - and none the worse
for wear. So what does the ban really achieve except as
a fund-raiser for the state - and punishment of people
who look after their pets? How can rabbits be a nuisance
when they're properly cared for, desexed, domesticated,
et cetera. The same in that case could apply to any pet -
why aren't others banned?

I suppose you could breed them for the Greyhound Industry.

Regardless, Rabbits are illegal in Queensland & anyone who has one should be dobbed in immediately.

Don't tell me, this is the lead up to spruiking for an online petition put up by someone sponsored by Centrelink.

Quote, "How can rabbits be a nuisance when they're properly cared for, desexed, domesticated, et cetera"

What prevents owners from doing that now? Those domestic rabbits breeding in the dunes and on new development estates must be mirages.

Quote, "The same in that case could apply to any pet"

Ferrets next, or maybe Koi?

Just waiting for the lunar Greens to demand the release of neutered animals to 'control' the populations of ferals, as the Greens already recommend in NSW. At the same time the barking-mad Greens oppose any culling that could result in the use of feral animals as game meat for the table. The Greens would much prefer to have a magnificent red deer suffer a slow death from 1080 poison and the carcass left to rot where it fell, than let a hunter offer a quick end and put the venison into his chiller.

I thought that a fishy example of the spread of a feral pest might be interesting,

"PETER McCUTCHEON: Tilapia were illegally imported into Australia as aquarium fish more than 25 years ago and were soon introduced into north Queensland dams as a way of controlling weeds and mosquitoes. The infestation has slowly but surely spread by human hand as people either deliberately or unwittingly introduced these fast breeding pests into a series of tropical waterways like Townsville's Ross River.

DR ALAN WEBB (JAMES COOK UNIVERSITY): It's a remarkably hardy fish. It can live in a wide range of habitats and conditions. It can breed very, very rapidly. It can eat just about anything.

PETER McCUTCHEON: Dr Alan Webb is one of Australia's few tilapia experts. He was alerted to the extraordinary reproductive powers of this fish 15 years ago, when they were found in a pond in Port Douglas.

DR ALAN WEBB: About six or seven fish were placed in these ponds on the golf course associated with the Mirage resort and within about 18 months they removed somewhere in the order of 16 tonnes of fish.

PETER McCUTCHEON: 16 tonnes?

DR ALAN WEBB: Yes. They poisoned the ponds and they were then scooping the fish out with a front-end loader."

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1305418.htm

Let's not get silly with the same old, same old
baloney. Let's try to have a decent discussion
on the subject. My entire purpose of this thread
was as I mentioned in my opening post - I saw a
program on TV that raised more questions than it
answered and I thought that those living in the
state of Queensland could explain the logic behind
what motivates an Australian State Government to be so
different from the rest of Australian states when
considering the domestic rabbit as a pet? Which by the
way thousands still insist in breaking the law in that state
and keeping domestic rabbits as pets.

Surely pet rabbits would not survive in the harsh
Australian outback or environment. The harsh climate, the
lack of appropriate food and water, predators, lack of
survival instinct (domestic rabbits have been bred as
captive animals for generations) would all reduce their
being a risk in any shape or form. The numbers that would
suvive would be negligible.

Regulations were lifted in Western Australia that would
restrict the number of pet rabbits - because the general
consensus was that pet rabbits do not present a huge risk
at all. They would simply not survive in the harsh Australian
enviornment.

Any evidence and facts to the contrary would be a good place
to start with refuting these facts.

Anyone who wants to blather on against the Greens, Fabians,
Progressives, et al can always start their own threads on
on those topics. I would appreciate not to have mine de-railed!

Cheers.

cont'd ...

domestic rabbits bred especially as captive animals
and fish who can survive anywhere?

Yep the comparison makes a lot of sense - obviously
to some! (smile!)

Foxy,
Sorry can't help you. Perhaps you can get the info by googling Department of Primary industries, QLD. I suspect the Qld Gov think there still may be possibilities of irresponsible people NOT doing the right thing and escapees breeding with ferals.

They may be right, better to be sure than sorry. The daily news shows how many fools live amongst us. Amazing that some people survive after weaning.

Foxy: Let's not get silly with the same old, same old baloney. Let's try to have a decent discussion on the subject.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I certainly wasn't taking the micky out of you. I gave you my reasons in all sincerity. I don't think anyone else was either. We have all given you reasons If you choose not to like those reasons, that has nothing to do with us. Please don't be offensive by accusing us of not being serious.

The fish example demonstrates how animals imported for aquariums managed to 'escape' to the wild with devastating results. The Greens example shows the policy difficulties and encumbrance of 'do gooders', who in fact are irresponsible, think short-term and are never there to pick up the pieces of their failed policies.

The example has already been given of previously 'pet' rabbits being released by owners who were sick of them and managing to breed very successfully in the wild. There are resident populations of 'cute' black rabbits just north of Sydney that authorities regularly cull. There are plenty of pet rabbits in new housing estates and playing dunes over the Queensland border.

So where is the answer to that question? What prevents owners from being responsible now? Or are the domestic rabbits breeding in the dunes and on new development estates mirages and the Council officers concerned about them, are they lying fools?

I come off a farm and I have witnessed avowed cat lovers dumping their pets outside of town. These owners were too 'caring and sensitive' (and stingy) to have them put down. The same applied to having their animals sterilised. True, many dumped domestic animals die painfully from thirst and lack of food, but some go on to survive and breed.

Queensland does not want to add to an existing problem that is all. Given the costs of controlling rabbits, ratepayers don't want their Councils to have another overhead either and who can blame them?

Dear Jay,

I should have been more specific.
It was the usual shyte from OTB -
that I was referring to. Read his posts.
He always manages to thrash someone - be it the
Greens (or anyone else) into his posts. Even Centrelink -
though what's that got to do with the discussion -
only he knows

cont'd ...

And comparing fish who by their very nature can survive
and breed in their native habitats with animals bred
in captivity with no survival skills is rather lame.
Nobody has come up with the numbers and
the damage actually done by these domestic pets when and
if they are released into the wild. I imagine that very
few of them would actually survive.
Statistics would help.

What about the damage that feral cats do?

Why aren't cats banned as pets in Queensland?

Well Foxy, it wouldn't be you if you were not delivering a burn to anyone with the temerity to challenge your world views and opinions. Then you turn around and get all bent of out shape if anyone persists with a view alternative to your own.

As usual, I will not be exchanging insults.

Foxy, "Why aren't cats banned?"

Is that your rationalisation for adding to the rabbit problem?

You expect farmers to put food on your table and you will buy overseas produce if locally produced is more expensive. How is that for an argument to support the Queensland policy on rabbits?

Foxy: And comparing fish who by their very nature can survive and breed in their native habitats with animals bred in captivity with no survival skills is rather lame.

Ok... I was that time. Xin loi.

You are wrong, cat & dogs by their very nature do very well, so do rabbits, even pet ones. And yes pet fish do very well too. I think their are enough studies to show the native animal decline. The Carp & Tilapia are extremely destructive. You're a Greenie you should know this, or is it a case of I don't want to know about the stuff I like.

Feral pigs & Goats in North Queensland have been extremely destructive. We got 70 pigs at one waterhole near Lockhart one evening. Exercising with live rounds in that part of the country. We got 120 Goats near Ravenswood another time. There ain't nothin' like a 60 to clean things up. ;-) Did some horses in the 60's out near Warwick. Got in the $hit for that. Someone dobbed us in to the papers. "Army shoots wild Horses."

There are also statistics on feral camels too. They were domesticated when they were turned loose so were the horses.

If you get onto the CSIRO, they have a website for that sort of thing.

Meanwhile, in the complicated world of animal liberation and animal protection,

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/backlash-over-cruel-concreting-of-warrens-20130910-2th6v.html

Dear OTB,

Once again you get in with your boot first
and then comes your righteous indignation.
You say you're not going for tit-for-tat
and then proceed to do precisely that.
Tsk. Tsk.
And again what makes you think that I would
buy overseas products in preference to Australian.
I prefer quality and I can afford it.
That's actually a very sore point with me.
I firmly believe in supporting Australian farmers,
and Australian manufactureres. I have family
members who are farmers and I come from farming stock
from way back. I prefer our local produce to anything
garned from overseas. And I have always supported
locals, be it in food, clothes, or anything else.
So don't you dare insinuate things about me that
you know nothing about you self-righteous hypocrite.
Accusing me of things when you lead the parade in
putting the boot in .

That can go through to the (wicket)keeper too.

Foxy, rabbits are banned in Queensland because Campbell Newman will not allow anything more intelligent than himself in the State. Joh Bjelke-Petersen banned cockroaches from coming north, for the very same reason.

I am in favor of proper feral animal control. Such controls should be left to the professionals, and not be placed in the hands of "the gun happy brigade' as some here in NSW are attempting to do. The political arm of this minority group represented by the Shooters Party has been attempting to have "recreational shooters" allowed into national parks and other public spaces to "control" feral pests. The trial of this recreational cull by these amateurs proved to be an expensive disaster, costing an inordinate amount and achieving nothing.
Feral animal control by all means, but keep the "Weekend Rambo's" on the side lines, leave it to the professionals, and allow the majority to enjoy our national parks and public spaces.

Paul1405: Such controls should be left to the professionals,

Yes they could go & talk to the rabbits. They could discuss; digging holes, birth control & eating vegetables, etc. But, what happens if the rabbits won't co-operate?

Dear Paul,

Thanks for making me laugh.

It's interesting that those like otb, who continually
blather on about "respectable, upstanding people,"
(and those he disagrees with are of course not),
espouse free speech,
and less government regulation yet - choosing to attack people
who speak out about the injustices being perpetuated.

19th century mentality - or is it 11th century.

The facts are these according to information gleaned from
various sources on the web:

Rabbits can be trained or kept in the house. They are
environmentally better pets than dogs or cats. They make
little noise (they don't bark as dogs do). They don't kill
native animals and birds as cats do. Making pet rabbits
so illegal as to attract heavy fines of $44,000 will only
make many people in Queensland less likely to take a
sick rabbit to the vet and some people may be more likely
to dispose of sick rabbits inhumanely or let them die when they
could be treated. This is a cruel state of affairs and
conflicts with the "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act."

Rabbits who are micro-chipped can't logically be
classified as feral or as pests.

Most people who haven't had a rabbit as a pet in their adult
life are the ones that believe rabbits are pests and
uninformed owners of pet rabbits are the ones that keep
them outside. Australian temperatures are high enough to cause
death and feral foxes and dogs attack many. The average
life span of a rabbit outdoors is 3 years, whereas rabbits
kept indoors have a 10-12 year span in comparison.

Dear Jayb,

Rabbits actually do co-eperate. They are very trainable.
It's the cockroaches
that you've got to watch out for.

Actually Paul both are remnants of the gerrymander, a tactic to try and limit the voter base of the Greens.

Back on topic, I have known enough people who have chosen to keep rabbits to have my doubts that the laws really work.

Some personal observations on the topic
- the potential fine is so large that I suspect it dissuades people from dobbing in those who break the law.
- desexed rabbits would present very little risk but if pet rabbits were much more common then it would become all that more difficult to tell when someone is doing the wrong thing. At the moment legal ownership is so rare that if the authorities were tying to deal with them its a manageable issue.
- as has been pointed out not having a legal avenue for ownership makes accessnto vets etc much more difficult. Probably making access to desexing, tagging etc much more difficult.

If there was to be a change in legislation around what can be kept as a pet I'd rather see some shifts that supported the keeping of native animals rather than an introduced pest. There are a bunch of issues around that to avoid wild capture, ensure species coped with domestic situations etc that would need thoughtful work but as a direction I'd rather see steps that increased the survival chances of native species than steps that reinforced the keeping of introduced animals with risky environmental impacts.

R0bert

Foxy,

My daughter and son-in-law have a much loved rabbit. He's an inside bunny except for chaperoned visits out to the back garden.

He's toilet trained as well - uses a litter tray....and doesn't munch on wiring or chords either...Good bunny!

There's a whopping sub-divison near us which has very strict cat rules "to protect wildlife"....it's such a shame that in order to accommodate the huge housing project, acre upon square acre of bushland was clear-felled with gay abandon.

It would have taken an awful lot of cats an awful long time to even approach the destruction to native habitat wrought by the people who created the housing estate.

Dear RObert,

You've raised some very valid points.

That's why I raised the issue of feral cats -
which apparently are increasing in numbers
and they do kill our native birds. We've got a
neighbour who lets their cat out at night and the
beast hunts the native birds with a vengenance.

I think you will find that in the past having rabbits as pets was banned in all Australian states.

Quote: "They (rabbits) are environmentally better pets than dogs or cats"

Rubbish. Google for the well documented scenes of devastation caused by rabbits.

Anyhow, why would anyone want to add to existing feral control problems?

As an observation, the OP asked for the reasons for the Queensland regulation of rabbits. When that was outlined, the OP proceeded to ignore the reasons, argue for rabbits in that State, and attacked the opposing view to her own.

In all honesty, where a poster has already formed an iron opinion as the OP obviously had on the subject it would have been principled to declare that from the outset.

Since in any event she was also not open to being convinced otherwise, that ought to have been said up-front too, which would have saved the time of posters who took her at her word, ie that she was seeking to know the background to the said law.

No-one has been able to explain why owners are not already having their animals de-sexed and they are releasing them. Border Councils are already up for control costs, as are NSW local government authorities, concerned about damage to assets from warrens undermining them, destruction to ratepayers' gardens and environmental damage such as destabilising soil near waterways.

More 'me, me, me' and individual egocentrism, with no regard for the welfare of the community, especially the ratepaying citizens who would very much prefer to see their money spent on essentials and not diverted into repairing damage from ferals and control measures.

Foxy,
I don't think you really want an answer to your question because you could get the official reason from the Qld government. Maybe you know the answer but prefer to take note of the advocates for 'rabbits as pets' crew. Not all the groups that advocate such are very practical and push the warm and cuddly line. Maybe you have a grand daughter that would like a 'cuddly lil wabbit', as I have. I recall some people saying we should allow the importation of some large cat breeds a few years ago. You would be aware that some people have deliberately released deer, goats and pigs in certain areas for their own benefit. To breed and release half feral/pet rabbits would be easy.

Given the risks involved, I support the Qld government policy and am critical of other states for not doing likewise. We should learn from our history about the dangers of rabbits and other introduced species. Yes, a nation wide ban on pet rabbits sounds good.

Dear otb,

We're all taxpayers-
even those who have pet rabbits. And no, I
did not have a set opinion when I began this
discussion - wrong assumption on your part, as
usual. - Its
only since I've been investigating the matter and
asking questions that I'm not understanding the
logic behind the decision for such heavy fines,
and the reasoning behind banning domesticated
animals as pets.

But do keep trying to say something intelligent.
Perhaps one day you'll surprise everyone.

Dear Banjo,

Thanks for your comments.

They are appreciated.

cont'd ...

Banjo, I actually do want to hear answers
but not just rants, finger-pointing, and
attacks on certain groups. They lead me to
respond in kind, unfortunately. It's a
bad habit I've picked up due to the impact of
certain entities on this forum. BTW - You're
not one of them.

Foxy: I actually do want to hear answers but not just rants, finger-pointing, and attacks on certain groups.

Well I think that we were trying to answer your question honestly to the best of our ability. You seem to consider that people who give reasons for banning Rabbits in Queensland as ranters & finger pointers.

If you just wanted people to say, Queensland shouldn't ban Rabbits, you should have said so. We can't read your mind. Then again, maybe we did, but answered honestly anyway. If you didn't want a negative answer then you shouldn't have asked the question.

Dear Jayb,

No I do not refer to people who give me
answers as to why rabbits should be banned
in Queensland as ranters and finger-pointers
et cerera. That is wrong.

However people people's posts speak for themselves.
And those who chose - in their very first posts
to use references
like the "lunar Greens," and the "barking-mad
Greens," and making vile comments like the
Greens would prefer to see a red deer suffer
instead of putting it out of its misery and
also insinuating that this discussion could
be a lead-up to spruiking for an online petition
put up by someone sponsored by CentreLink. WTF?

Those are the posts that obviously speak for themselves.
And they should be obvious to you as well. But then
perhaps you chose not to read them. Either that or
you're not offended by them and agree with them.

cont'd ...

I am interested in a genuine discussion.
However not in rants, and finger-pointing
as I stated previously. If I was interested
in that - I would have said so. Yet I made it
quite clear from the outset that anyone
who wanted to resort to the tactic of putting
the boot in to the Greens or anyone else - should
start their own discussion but not try to derail
mine.

It's not brain surgery.

Foxy,
I am sure you are well adapt at research, so why not ask the Qld government the reasons for the ban on pet rabbits? I am not sure which Dept is responsible for implementing and enforcing the ban but, again am sure you can ferret that out.

I can think of a few reasons but that is supposition, be interesting to see the official reasons.

Jayb, I make a perfectly sensible comment "Feral animal control by all means, but keep the "Weekend Rambo's" on the side lines, leave it to the professionals, and allow the majority to enjoy our national parks and public spaces." You chime in with your Dr Dolittle remark "Yes they could go & talk to the rabbits. They could discuss; digging holes, birth control & eating vegetables, etc. But, what happens if the rabbits won't co-operate?" Who are "THEY" please explain.

The weekend Rambo's are more interested in getting their jolly's, through blood sport, shooting animals, and anything else in sight including the occasional human by mistake, than anything to do with feral animal control.

paul1405: The weekend Rambo's are more interested in getting their jolly's, through blood sport, shooting animals, and anything else in sight including the occasional human by mistake, than anything to do with feral animal control.

I beg to differ. Most Sporting Shooters are a dedicated lot & not Weekend Rambo's. Like all walks of life there are a few idiots, granted. Usually they are invited to Rural Properties to eliminate a feral problem. If they are on Government property there are all sorts of hoops to jump through. Property owners don't like people just rocking up out of the blue & will refuse those who do.

I take it you are a dedicated Greenie, going by previous posts, so anyone with a gun is a Rambo because you don't know anything about them. And, calm down son. There's no need to get agro.

Believe me when I say, I don't like Rambo's either. Neither do dedicated Sporting Shooters who belong to Sporting Clubs. Personally I don't own a weapon. They won't let me use it like it's supposed to be used in Australia but that may change, according to what's blowing in the wind nowadays. I can still put 266/300, 7.62mm, on a fig 11 at 300, & that was after 25 years. I used to do better than that. I've got a medal. I'm getting a bit blind in my old age. It used to be 290+ & Iron sights.

Foxy,

This is the lead agency for information,

Darling Downs Moreton Rabbit Board
on 07 4661 4076 or ddmrbrd@bigpond.com

Some reading in advance,
Pet rabbits do not survive or breed in the wild, or they? The start of a problem,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-11/gold-coast-rabbit-plague/4813128

NEW residential estates on the Tweed Coast have been overrun with fluffy bunnies infiltrating sand dunes and the yards of luxury beachside homes.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-authorities-hopping-mad-as-nsw-rabbits-cross-the-border/story-fnihsrf2-1226849570606

Queensland authorities are hopping mad about it with feral rabbits causing $600 million of damage every year.

Lockyer Valley under siege from Queensland’s worst rabbit outbreak in memory

(-extensive Floods damaged fences)
MATTHEW KILLORAN THE SUNDAY MAIL (QLD) OCTOBER 12, 2014 12:00AM
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/lockyer-valley-under-siege-from-queenslands-worst-rabbit-outbreak-in-memory/story-fnihsrf2-1227087658098

Now that's more like it.
Thank You to you one and all.
And I shall follow through on all
of your suggestions. Thank You for the
links, the Addresses, and the comments.

I shall let you all know the results
in due course.

Well, I'm back.

I got so excited over this discussion that
I sat down and did a bit more research.

Thanks Banjo for your excellent suggestion.
It turns out that it's the Department of
Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry that's
responsible. Here are two links that explain
things rather well:

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/57780/IPA-Keeping-Rabbits-As-Pets-PA15.pdf

And -

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/72789/IPA-Prohibited-Pets-PA24.pdf

Again Thanks to all of you for your help.
It makes things crystal clear to me now.

JayB, I am not a greenie, I am a fully paid up member of the NSW Greens, something I have freely admitted on this forum. You destroy your own argument, "Most Sporting Shooters are a dedicated lot & not Weekend Rambo's. Like all walks of life there are a few idiots, granted." I take it from your comment a minority of the minority are weekend Rambo's. So can we well afford to let this half dozen, ten, whatever loose in our national parks, public spaces every weekend to get their jolly's with a gun. I don't think so!
"so anyone with a gun is a Rambo because you don't know anything about them. And, calm down son. There's no need to get agro." Not so, my oldest son has an unrestricted gun licence, told me all about how he went about getting it, including the questions 'Have you attempted to commit suicide in the last twelve months, have you had an AVO etc etc. He also told me he went for the licence test at a gun shop (country town), and the examiner was very helpful with the answers, for those who didn't know, no one failed. He also told me about the strange fellow who turned up for the exam wearing a flack jacket and camouflager gear, he also passed, and ordered a gun on the spot, no doubt to get his weekend jolly's. Unless you are 102 I'm not your son, and I'm not agro.

paul1405: He also told me about the strange fellow who turned up for the exam wearing a flack jacket and camouflager gear, he also passed,

I agree. You should have to;
1. A Mental Health Test to get a Gun licence.
2. A gun owner must have a, Certificate of Competence.
3. All weapons should be kept in a central Armoury, not at home.
4. All weapons must be signed, In & Out.
5. A letter of permission from the property owner must be presented before the weapon is released.
6. A Letter of permission from the Parks Department must be held before shooting on a National or State Park.

So you see, I'm on your side.

Paul says, "Feral animal control by all means, but keep the "Weekend Rambo's" on the side lines, leave it to the professionals", aren't they what is often referred to as "experts" & we all know what use they are.

No wonder the Greens are such a useless bunch with such ideas.

Yep, we could leave everything to the professionals, like say the World health Organisation. Well we could if we wanted a mess like the Ebola outbreak. Then think of the UN & any emergency you care to mention. The result is always disastrous.

We could bring in the Victorian Rural Fire Authority, if we want more dead people, & lots of houses burnt down.

Then of course if we want our finances in good shape, we could hire the experts from the last Labor/Green national government, they could fix almost anything, particularly if it was working before they arrived.

If you want anything done properly bring in a practical person, & remove any academic before they can stuff things up.

If you want feral animal control, for gods sake keep the park rangers out of the way, & bring in people who actually know which end of a gun is dangerous.

Sorry Jayb, but you miss the point.

I have my rifle to protect my young stock from the packs of wild dogs lousy commonwealth, state & council programs have allowed to multiply.

It is the only way I am allowed to do it. If my dogs are let out of their small yard, I will be fined, & the dogs probably put down, so they can't help.

I suppose if there was someone thing/person to fine for those wild dogs, we might get some control, but no such luck.

Our councils are a waste of space, full of over paid planners, & no workers.

I found a couple of loose horses at an intersection of major country roads recently. They had been chased & were really flighty. Someone was going to get hurt, so I stopped & caught one with the only bit of rope I had. Fortunately the other stayed with it's mate off the road.

20 minutes on the phone to the council only proved that they had no one who could be spared from the air conditioned office to do anything about this. With a cast of thousands & costing a fortune, they are a problem rather than a service.

Finally a couple of city type girls turned up in police uniforms, with equally no idea. At my suggestion they organised another cop to bring a couple of halters from town.

With the horses secured I then noticed a area where the long grass was flattened, leading to a spot where a car had gone through a fence into a small paddock.

The extra cop was dispatched to find "something" to patch the fence, & 3 hours after I'd stopped the horses were kind of secure.

Continued

Continued

The police girls vowed to find out who owned the paddock & horses, & get things fixed. I didn't have the heart to tell them that the land probably belongs to SEQEB, our electricity authority, who have recently built a substation in one corner of the small paddock.

They were nice young ladies, if a bit clueless, & I mentally wished them luck, with that huge bureaucratic organisation, finding out who owned the horses, or even who had given permission for them to be there.

So sorry Jayb, I need my rifle here, & Paul, which "professionals" would you suggest I should have called?

Hasbeen, I find your argument strange. I suggested professionals should be allowed to do the job of feral animal control and you pooh-pooh the notion. If you required medical attention would you seek it from an amateur, I think not. On the question of feral animal control you seem to think the amateur way is best, I find that odd.

Here in NSW we have had 2 years of turmoil over the issue of hunting in national parks, culminating in a farcical trial which if it was not such a serious matter could best be described as laughable.

JayB, I have no issue with 1 to 5, I see not need for 6 when I do not support amateur shooting in national parks. I don't know if my son tells me stories just to fire me up on this issue or not, but tells me this; A bloke who uses a shot gun to blow rabbits to pieces, shooters paying big bucks to go to Africa to illegally shoot lions, elephants etc, he has seen the pics. People with cross-bows shooting at game, having it run off wondered. I don't believe shooters are responsible enough people to be allowed to endangers others in the way they potentially could in national parks.

paul1405: you seem to think the amateur way is best, I find that odd.

Hasbeen didn't say that. You are reading too much into it. I agree that Farmers/Property owners should be allowed to keep their weapons locked up on their Property. It's the City Slickers that Must have them in a Central Armoury. I did mean to say that.

paul1405: I see not need for 6 when I do not support amateur shooting in national parks.

Jayb: 6. A Letter of permission from the Parks Department must be held before shooting on a National or State Park.

The National Parks Rangers would only give a letter of Permission if a Cull was called for, & only to Qualified professional Shooters.

And again, purposely reading too much negativity into it & I don't care if you support shooting in National Parks or not. That's your choice. National Parks Rangers may see it differently from time to time. Especially when Wild Goats, Horses, Pigs, Deer & Camels are destroying everything in sight. I suppose you want someone to go in & ask them if they would like to see a Greenies Movie on Birth Control.

Paul it is you who has a problem. You appear to have this blind faith in what you call professionals. Who the hell are they.

You haven't answered me on which professional I should have called to stop some city dill running into horses on the road. It is a regular problem around here, when fences are damaged by vehicles or trees. The council have people to deal with barking dogs in town, but try them with a bull.

We could call in the army for animal culls, they have the firepower to do the job, if not the accuracy, otherwise where are these professional shooters you want to call in. As mentioned, the last people you want are national park rangers. Most of them could not hit a barn, even from inside. I have all too often cleaned up after them in the reef islands.

People who shoot for a living are not interested in culling goats or wallabies, or anything else, where a vehicle can't pick up the kill.

We suffer far too much from your city professionals, who have got to the top of the chain, merely by doing nothing, so getting no black marks. Then having people like you, think we should listen to their rubbish in a dangerous situation would be a joke, if it weren't so deadly.

Please name me one city based organisation, other than the volunteer SES, or the electricity lines people, [private company employees], that has not stuffed when called upon to do what they are paid for.

Professionals, ass lickers, more likely.

The Watermelon Greens find problems where they make them and it is all for headlines. Because they are members of a protest party, not any alternative for government. They have no credibility at all. Honestly, what more might be said of a Trotskyist outfit of ne'er do wells who would picket a humble shopkeeper, who was astonished to find that he was being made an example of by a picket of rag-tag ratbags, serial protesters, who were demanding a blockade in the Middle East.

Is it a fact that the Watermelon faction of the Greens Protest Party conducts workshops to find and train serial protesters? It is, isn't it? One way to get a not-so-flash mob for demos I suppose.

Interestingly, while the Watermelon Greens deliberately conflate and blame the many thousands of respectable, licensed firearms owners with common criminals, the Greens have the hide to always be spruiking for criminals rights (drug-dealing OMG bikies rights at present) and have demonstrated no interest whatsoever in higher penalties for illegal use, which is obviously the crimes being committed.

The rangers and the closed off parks have resulted in exotic pests and weeds taking over. National parks are a mess and there are treated pine logs everywhere to corral ordinary visitors and large entry fees for the public to pay again, TWICE, for they have already paid for in the taxes.

I can't believe this discussion is still going.

Anyway, as is my tradition, I'd like to Thank all
of the contributors. And am looking forward to
more interesting discussions in the future.

Take care folks.

BTW: otb - don't hold back.

Tell us what you really think about the Greens.
(smile). I understand why you call them watermelon
your views are crystal clear however why not in
fairness and balance do you not assign colours to
the other political
parties as well, just to make things more
interesting.

The Coalition could be Blue on the outside
(We all end up singing the Blues when we vote for them,
after all). And brown or black on the inside.
Labor red on the outside, white on the inside.
Red and white look so good together and stand out from
the norm.

Foxy,

If you want to burn someone for describing the Greens as 'just a protest' party it will have to be ex-PM Julia. Here Julia is on the news, in video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouJ5NqpOU78

Julia added that she, "always knew the Greens would revert to type and they have done so".

She should know too, after being in partnership with the treacherous Greens who sabotaged her government daily and jumped in first where they could see some kudos.

BTW, that clip is interesting for Labor's factional politics too. -Which are about to surface again (as in Deliverance?) as factions have set Shorten up with a 'hospital pass' (sl., sport) to protect the more valuable indigenous woman senator from the NT.

Beach, you continually attack The Greens as a "protest party" yet The Greens present an extensive array of policies which you never make reference to.
You refer to us as a "Trotskyist outfit" some members may well be these Trotskyists people you refer to, The Greens appeals to a broad section of society. You present yourself as a conservative, but some conservatives are thinly veiled national socialists. I find it difficult to find your parties policies on anything of substance.

http://australiafirstparty.net/

I'd dearly love to know what a professional shooter is.

what qualifications are necessary?

I'm now in my 81st year, been shooting/hunting without supervision for 70 years, have represented NSW in pistol shooting, did 6 years regular Army, 12 months of which was on active service (hence I am a trained killer).
I am recognized by the Courts as a firearms expert, thanks to my later military training and my employment in the Dept. of Defence on firearms.
I have been the expert on Military and Naval Boards of Inquiry into firearms related matters, including serious injury to service personnel because of accidents.
I have been hunting in all Australian States except WA and Tasmania.

These days I only hunt on a few properties that belong to friends as I don't wish to jump through the hoops to hunt in a State forest or a National Park.
I might as well add that I only hunt with .22s and black powder muzzle loaders, black powder guns are frowned upon by the Greens as they don't consider them to be powerful enough for a clean kill; such ignorance is endemic to the breed.

Paul1405,

To correct you once again,

- No, I don't present myself as anything else but an ordinary citizen with a concern for government demonstrating value for money for the taxes compulsorily taken from me; and

- I quote a Labor Prime Minister's assessment of the Greens. As you would be ware from my posts. See here form my reply to another poster where I gave a link to a video to refresh her memory as well,

<If you (Foxy) want to burn someone for describing the Greens as 'just a protest' party it will have to be ex-PM Julia. Here Julia is on the news, in video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouJ5NqpOU78

Julia added that she, "always knew the Greens would revert to type and they have done so".

She should know too, after being in partnership with the treacherous Greens who sabotaged her government daily and jumped in first where they could see some kudos.>

Dear Paul,

It seems that there is a malignant thought
form that "other people are the problem."

Conservatives tend to blame anyone with whose
views they don't agree from the Greens, Laborites,
Progressives, and so on for our problems. While
Laborites, Greens, Progressives, et cetera- tend to blame
conservatives. The media blames whatever Mr Murdoch
dictates (usually everyone) and almost everyone
blames Muslims, and so it goes.

Some people think that Gays are the problem, while
others think that Emily Listers, and our Indigenous
People and Immigrants and Asylum Seekers and
Multiculturalism are the problem.
Still others blame the Christian Right. The entire culture
seems to have become a hysterical blame session.

Yet as we've discussed so many times in the past on this forum -
a healthy vital society is not one in which we all agree.
It is one in which those who disagree can do so and
respect other people's opinions and an appreciation of our
shared humanity.

Without personal commitment to the atributes of fair play
and integrity, we are in great danger. Malice and intolerance
stalk our society and not one corner of our society is
unaffected.

The only way to protect our freedom is to try to see to it
that our political conversation must shift away from the
mass infantile finger-pointing that now pervades it.

It isn't the Greens, or Labor or the Coalition who have
ruined or are ruining this country: it is the tendency on
some people's parts to think that their way is the
right way and that people who disagree with them are bad.

Greens' policies, long on rhetoric but short on practicality.

cont'd ...

As you can see from reading certain posts here
and in other discussions. Certain people
divide things into those who are "Respectable
Upstanding Citizens," and then the ones that
they see and describe as "whatshername," or
"Barking Mad Greens," et all.

And the Band plays on!

Now we have Beach the "concerned citizen". I really don't care what Julia Gillard thinks of The Greens. Applying those labels of yours, left, right and center, sorry, always left no right or centre, so what. in your jumble of labels we find, "Trotskyist", Trotskyist, a term you picked up in the school playground, and would not have a clue what it means. You would not know a "Trotskyist" if one jumped up and bit you on the ass.
Beach could you please describe a "Hitlerite" for me, is it a 'concerned citizen'. Why don't you run your true colours up the flag pole for all to see, it sure would make a change.

Is Mise, had a look at your CV, you've got the job. I never used the term professional shooter, I said professionals, as opposed to the Rambo amateurs and weekend warriors.

paul1405: I never used the term professional shooter, I said professionals,

And..... What sort of Professionals should be used to cull feral Animals,(Anywhere.) Maybe we could get some Professional Greenies to confuse them with their rhetoric & They'd just lie down & die.

If not Professional Shooters, then Professional, what? You've confused me.

Jayb, if I thought your suggestion had some possibility of success I would support it. Unfortunately <<getting some Professional Greenies to confuse them (feral animal) with their rhetoric & They'd just lie down & die.>> is most likely unworkable.
I can only reiterate here in NSW, we recently had a cock-up of a trial, I'll be kind, recreational shooters attempting feral animal control in national parks, it was an unmitigated failure.
The gun lobby is a powerful group and their influence over both Liberal and Labor State Governments is well known. it has been The Greens that have led the fight in parliament to stop the unreasonable demands of gun happy shooters through their mouth piece The Shooters Party, and the two Bobs.

A 2012 link to a speech by David Shoebridge on The Game and Feral Animal Control Act [Legislation Debate]

http://davidshoebridge.org.au/2012/06/21/game-and-feral-animal-control-act-legislation-debate/

"Barking Mad Greens,"

Now I like that!

The rabbit problem in Australia is the work of the HUNTING LOBBY. Let me remind you.

European rabbits first arrived in Australia with the First Fleet in 1788, but they only became a pest after 24 wild rabbits were released for HUNTING near Geelong in Victoria 150 years ago.

This link to ABC Science will help the 'Greenie Bashers' understand a little about rabbits... I hope. Not one feral species has been introduced by anyone connected to The Greens, but plenty by people connected to other political parties including Liberal, Labor and Shooters Partiee, to name but three!

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/04/08/2538860.htm

Dear Paul,

Thanks for raising such valid points and
for the link.

Very interesting.

p1495: Not one feral species has been introduced by anyone connected to The Greens, but plenty by people connected to other political parties.

You ever notice that every piece of Political Correctness that get an airing is pushed by the Greens & when it all back fires it has never been the Greens fault.

They are good at supplying & loading the Gun then forcing someone else to fire it so they don't get the blame.

Nah, Jayb, the gun is loaded by The Shooters Party and fired by The Liberal State Government with the good folk of NSW left starring down the barrel.

Glad Foxy, you are a person interested in the facts, unlike some others on here.

Yes rabbits have been, & could again, be a major pest. We should hang draw & quarter the decendents of those who introduced the things to Oz.

Be that as it may, the Greens & greenies are a damn sight bigger pest than any dozen other introduced species. We most definitely should have an open season on the decendents of those who introduced this destructive menace to the continent, 24/7.

Paul1405 and Foxy cheering each other on. Don't let the facts get in the road, just link arms and keep repeating the ridiculous in the hope that it might become accepted some day.

Isn't Shoebridge one of the head honchos of the headline hunting NSW 'Watermelon' Greens, who is attempting to ride on Lee Rhiannon's (nee Brown) coat tails?

Barking mad and opportunists too.

Talking about rabbits it is time to return to the subject of the thread. Previously the OP, Foxy, appeared to backflip on her criticisms of Qld rabbit control and concede the laws were in fact needed. See here,

Quoting Foxy, "It turns out that it's the Department of
Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry that's
responsible. Here are two links that explain
things rather well:

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/57780/IPA-Keeping-Rabbits-As-Pets-PA15.pdf

And -

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/72789/IPA-Prohibited-Pets-PA24.pdf

Again Thanks to all of you for your help.
It makes things crystal clear to me now.>
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:43:20 PM

Now it seems that Foxy has backflipped yet again. Some explanation is in order for what appear to be backflips of Olympic standard. -Not that Foxy would ever be wrong of course, that goes without saying.

otb,

And I was foolish enough to hope that we'd
get something of more substance from you
rather than the usual battleground for your
fantasies.

Sigh.

Other than we don't want Rabbits & mossies in Queensland. Who cares.

Paul,

"This link to ABC Science will help the 'Greenie Bashers' understand a little about rabbits... I hope. Not one feral species has been introduced by anyone connected to The Greens, but plenty by people connected to other political parties including Liberal, Labor and Shooters Partiee, to name but three!"

Reference please; which feral species did they import?

As to the introduction of rabbits,
"Rabbits were introduced as part of a broad attempt by early colonists to make Australia as much like Europe as they possibly could," says Greg Mutze, research officer at the Department of Water, Land and Biodiversity Conservation in South Australia.

"It was hoped that they would flourish so that the owners could hunt them."

This should be read in the broader context of the privileged classes of the time, I don't think that this refers to the ordinary blokes around the towns or the bush who would have enjoyed a bit of rabbit in the pot. Some of their parents would have been in Australia because they sinned against the perceived ownership of rabbits in Europe.

The bunnies are doing very well in the Northern Ranges of NSW.

Well, the Bunnies won the rugby league after 43 years and I'm a Bunnies supporter, and the English imports were of great assistance to that end. In celebration of the Rabbitohs glories victory I suggest a 12 month amnesty for all Rabits.

Beach; The South Sydney Bunnies wear the Red and Green, are they Trotskyists? Are rabbits Fabians, according to you those Fabians breed like rabbits there are everywhere.

David Shorebridge is one of our finest representatives in the NSW parliament. We the Greens are well aware that this corrupt state Liberal government of Baird's is doing deals with The Shooters Party to grant access for this mob to shoot in national parks in exchange for Shooters Party votes in the LC. All to give the Liberals business cronies, democratically, two votes in The City of Sydney elections. In that way the Liberals hope to oust Sydney's outstanding Lord Mayor, Clover Moore. They can't get her out democratically, (they kicked her out of State Parliament, which backfired because a Clover supporter won the seat)) so they are trying to do it with a underhanded method, typical of this corrupt government.
p/s Those two Bob's sitting in the Legislative Council representing The Shooters and Hooters party are a pair of Rabbits at the best of times.

Paul,

The two Bobs may well be rabbits but they are not liars as are most of the Greens in the NSW State Parliament.
These Greens are proven liars, character assassins and cowards who do their dirty work under Parliamentary Privilege.

If standing up and speaking out for the ordinary people makes The Greens "liars, character assassins and cowards" in some peoples eyes then so be it! Justice must be served by giving the people a voice in their parliament, something they can't expect from the corrupt Liberal and Labor Parties or the minority pressure group represented by the likes of The Shooters Party.

paul1405: If standing up and speaking out for the ordinary people makes The Greens "liars, character assassins and cowards" in some peoples eyes then so be it!

Since when have the greens ever represented the "ordinary" people. The Greens are a self indulgent Party of spoilers at any cost.

paul1405: something they can't expect from the corrupt Liberal and Labor Parties.

True, but none of us can. that's a given.

paul1405: Justice must be served by giving the people a voice in their parliament, or the minority pressure group represented by the likes of The Shooters Party.

The Greens are also a minority pressure group no different to the other minority groups. The difference is that the Greens are a laughing stock compared to all the other minority groups.

'Why I Voted Greens'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5f2RMc4e5s

Paul,

Don't you want me to give a reference to my aligations?

Don't Rabbits eat Greens? ;-)

Dear Jayb.,

Rabbits eat certain plants without
severe harmful effects.

And -

The difference is that rabbits won't eat
anything they've soiled. ;-)

Foxy:The difference is that rabbits won't eat anything they've soiled. ;-)

Yeah! neither will the Greens.

Wait a minute... Rabbits eat their own excreta to double digest their food. Apparently their food is only half digested that's why they eat their poo.

Foxy, "Rabbits eat certain plants without severe harmful effects"

You can't say that about the 1080 poison that the Greens prefer dropped by the helicopters of expensive contractors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkgyXF56Uvo
[Warning - poisoned animals. Footage from NZ. Same product dropped in Australia]

Inexplicably, except to the truly lunar Greens, the many migrants who may have been putting game especially rabbit on their table before coming to Australia are abused by the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens as 'Johhny Rambos'. What a crock of proverbial that is. Even a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the fictitious Rambo.

Of course the Greens are only into the sort of 'quick-hit' sensationalism of shock-horror headlines (with no facts to back them up) that can sway the young first voters and serially disaffected to vote for them. As voters mature they soon wake up to the Greens.

If your going to watch Youtubes how about this one. Its spot on with what happened during the recent "trial" of the Weekend Rambo's trying to control feral animals;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztDdFra_Yy4

Now fellas please put your hands up, admit it when it comes to feral animal control you are all like poor old Elmer Fudd, the feral's are just too smart for you.

Paul1405,

You must think that no-one would ever check those 'Rambo' claims by the Trotskyist NSW 'Watermelon' Greens.

I had a look at the numbers from the annual public benefit assessment (PBA) into the NSW Game Council, where the government-licensed conservation hunters culled almost 1.25 million feral and game animals from NSW land in 2012.

You and the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens prefer 1080 poison of course.

So to get back to the thread subject, you and the NSW Green Fairies -Trotskyists whose 'foreign policy includes picketing ordinary shopkeepers for Middle East blockades - want a future of more rabbits and 1080 for Queensland one assumes.

Dear Jayb.,

Did you hear about the egg laden rabbit who jumps off
bridges?

He's the Easter Bungee!

Beach is at it again, attacking the only political party in NSW The Greens who are willing to take on these ratbags from the Shooters Party. This mob want to turn our national parks, which are presently designated for passive recreation, into some sort of "wild west" show. its not on!
Glade you mentioned that notorious outfit The NSW Game Council, headed up by Brian Boyle, again through the work of The Greens, this dubious bunch were exposed for what they were, another corrupt body, a blight on NSW. Boozy Barry O'Farrell had no other option other than to disband the so called "Game Council" when it was exposed as nothing more than a front for these Weekend Rambo types.

Read all about it;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-17/legislation-abolishes-nsw-game-council2c-forms-replacement/5028068

read more;

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/game-council-to-be-abolished-20130704-2pdte.html

Bring up the Game Council is a desperation move by good old Beach, more a case of one shooting themselves in the foot, with both barrels, I would say.

Paul1405

As someone independent it amazes me that you and your NSW Watermelon Greens can assert on one hand that the trained and duly licensed recreational hunters have no effect on feral wildlife, yet elsewhere for instance fishing, the Greens demand huge restricted zones alleging that recreational fishermen are wiping out fish stocks.

Similarly the Greens allege (entirely without evidence) that government approved duck shooting seasons 'threaten'(sic) duck populations.

Tell me now, how does that work? Why is recreational hunting for 'sea kittens' always a threat to their survival, but hunting of land ferals, including cats of course, always has a negligible effect. -According to the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens that is and Greens have trouble with numbers.

If the now disgraced Premier did a back door deal with the Greens with the payola for the Greens being to abolish a Games Council that achieved world wide recognition as an excellent model, that is not something the NSW government nor the Greens should be proud of. You are normally going off about the said (now ex-) Premier, the NSW government and deals. Not deals where the Greens are involved though!

Paul,

Brian Boyle?

Isn't he the bloke that was slandered and generally lied about by NSW Greens' Parliamentarian cowards under Parliamentary Privilege?

Isn't he the bloke that had to have recourse to the NSW Privileges Committee by seeking a Citizen's Right of Reply.

Did the Committee not publish findings that shew that he was lied about?

See: http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/committee.nsf/0/f0c434305450a948ca257a620083137e/$FILE/Report%2062%20Boyle.pdf

Perhaps, Paul, you could point to a refutation of the Committee's paper?
Or do the Greens having thrown mud are happy that a bit of it might stick, so that someone, like yourself, can later make use of it without revealing unpalatable facts like Boyle's Reply?
Or are we not talking about the same Brian Boyle?

Dear Is Mise,

Finger-pointing is quite a fun game for some
it seems.
But how about some balance.
You selected to point to one politician in NSW.
Well how about for the sake of balance - taking
a look at NINE conservative politicians -
as shown on the 7.30 Report - as NSW corruption
scandal moves closer to the Federal Liberal Party:

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4067431.htm

Foxy: You selected to point to one politician in NSW. Well how about for the sake of balance - taking a look at NINE conservative politicians

Well... All that shows that you can't trust any Politician, they're all as corrupt as one another. ;-)

Beach goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, not content with bring up the nefarious NSW Game Council and their rubbery figures, he invokes the Victorian duck hunting nonsense, now we are talking about the real Elma Fudd's.

http://www.duck.org.au/

Isn't he (Brian Boyle) the bloke that was slandered and generally lied about by NSW Greens' Parliamentarian cowards under Parliamentary Privilege? No, he is the Brian Boyle that was exposed by The NSW Greens as a stooge of The Shooters Party. Is Mise, Boyle has been lanced, get over it, done deal. Boozy Barry gave him the flick, end of story.

Beach, on another note, just been up to Newtown, someone (not The Greens this time) has plastered the join with anti Fascists posters. Giving you the heads up, get up there with your paint scrapper and remove the offending posters immediately. Jim will be pleased, could be a party promotion in it for you.

Dear Jayb.,

Precisely!

Foxy: Easter Bunnjies.

Loved it, so did my Grand Daughter.

Dear Jayb.,

Here's another:

"My little rabbit won't eat beans
But you'd better not touch his salad greens
You might well ask -
'What's up with this?'

Well rabbits just like to give beans a miss.
Beans as we know are good for the heart
But the more rabbits eat, the more they fart!"

It looks like this discussion has now run its
course and once again I would like to Thank
Everyone who took the time to contribute to it.

See you on another thread.

Foxy

My favourite "Golden Book" Series was "Br'ere Rabbit." My favourite story was, "The Laughin' Place," but you knew that. ;-)

Thanks for the Ditty. I added it to my vast collection.
I did modify it a bit to read better. Apologies.

"My little rabbit won't eat his beans
But, please don't touch his salad greens

You might well ask - 'What's up with this?'
Well rabbits like to give beans a miss.

Beans, as we know, are good for the heart
But the more they eat, the more they fart!"

Paul states…’isn’t he (Brian Boyle) the bloke that was slandered and generally lied about by NSW Greens' Parliamentarian cowards under Parliamentary Privilege?
Paul, don’t be distracted by in-house slugging. It’s totally natural:)

Australian shooters party has with-in its ranks, the power to choose which members that are deemed mature enough to for-fill the roll…(meaning all those who wish to contribute, must join your local gun club in relation of the matter) As alot may agree, the over 40,s with many meaningful years of professionalism, from which an internal section committee can be formed with very little fuss.
The parks and wildlife or national government bodies can easily work together on this hot topic.
For example, the grounds/parks can be advertised on local media, with roads in and out sealed for the extraction. Shooters will not be given free ammunition and all profits in-relation to the matters, will be discussed. Safety protocols will be under the strict laws that are already in place, as well as a detailed description made publicly on how the task will be performed.
On the subject of removing the culled vermin….in open areas, they must be removed, to others in less excisable places, allow nature to take its course. In a well planned joint effort, what’s been targeted must be away from public gatherings like.. Walkways, car parks, BBQ areas, since no-one wants to smell or be reminded of the operation. Heavy equipment can be used in some areas for safe disposal of carcasses in relation and concern of the fly population getting out of hand…(which it won’t) and the Greens may well want to respond to this with logic.

Shooters can be of great benefit to the problems at hand, and in return gain the greater public respect for the good this will do for Australian wild-life. Our furry little friends are in rapid decline and if something is not done soon, well, I guess one can go on-line and look at them.

We brought these pests in, so in all fairness, we should remove them as quickly and as quietly as possible.

Tally

Dear Jayb.,

Thanks for the Golden Book Reference and
for improving my ditty.

Yours is so much better. It flows much smoother.

Love it!

Paul,

The Greens in the NSW Parliament lied about Brian Boyle, slandered him and did it gutlessly behind the protection of Parliamentary Privilege and you can't get away from that fact.

It's all there in Hansard, and here
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/committee.nsf/0/f0c434305450a948ca257a620083137e/$FILE/Report%2062%20Boyle.pdf

Wonder why the Greens, when exposed as liars, didn't have the decency to apologize, that would have been the action that one would expect from upstanding Members of Parliament.

What may or mayn't have happened to Mr Boyle by the later actions of
an inept Premier has no bearing on the fact of the Greens gutless actions towards a public servant who was constrained by the nature of his employment from making any public reply to their baseless, cowardly allegations.

Well done Greens, up to par yet again.

Is Mise, you and I have had a vigorous discussion about this matter in the past. All I will add to that is given the make-up of the Kangaroo Court conducted by conservative members of the NSW Legislative Council I'm surprised they did not order that The Greens involved be taken out at dawn and shot. Naturally by Boyle's mates the Two Bob's from The Shooters and Hooters Party. As I said many times, Boyle had to be lanced, and it was left to The Greens to do it.

Paul,

Indeed we did have a vigorous discussion and you eventually ran for cover as you are doing now, because there is no way that you can refute the fact that the Greens lied in Parliament and then hid, as the cowards that they are, behind Privilege.

It is rather noteworthy that none of them come onto forums where they can engage in open discussion and defend their actions.

Okay Is Mise lets get to the crux of the matter concerning Boyle, Cate Faehrmann had this to say;

"The reason that members are speaking to the amendment is the political nature of the
Game Council; this clause in the bill gives a lot of authority to one person, who
traditionally has been a political figure in the Shooters and Fishers Party."

Boyle claimed in the August 2012 Citizen’s Right of Reply Report; "I have no ties to or membership of any political party (Shooters Party) – I am a public servant and have been so continuously since 1986."

In 2013 Steve Dunn's inquiry into The Game Council found exactly what Cate had said was true.

The review found the Game Council has its fingers deep in the political pie, with the slices getting bigger thanks to the influence and power of the Shooters and Fishers Party in the NSW Legislative Council.

O'Farrell was left with no other alternative than to sack Boyle and his Game Council. So for Boyle to cry about his involvement with The Shooters Party members the two Bob's shows he was a liar. The Greens had Boyle pegged right all along. Is Mise you can get off your high horse and stop defending the lying Boyle.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/game-council-to-be-abolished-20130704-2pdte.html

Typical Greens:

- bothering ordinary citizens and a government body with a superb safety record and excellent runs on the board in reducing feral animals by utilising the licensed and properly accredited volunteers from the community (who pay to do help out!);

BUT,

- soft on noxious criminals who are responsible for all of those illegal guns and commit the crimes.

Paul1405 is chuffed that the legal, effective and cheap control of feral animals has been interrupted, but turns a blind eye to this:

"Religious leader shot outside Islamic centre in Greenacre following threats"
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/religious-leader-shot-outside-islamic-centre-in-greenacre-following-threats-20141103-11g0kx.html

The NSW 'Watermelon' Greens - who know what wides they will be bowling up next?

True to form the bloke from the ultra right, chimes in with some clap trap about a shooting at a Islamic prayer center in Sydney, a matter for the police, no less. The kind of thing that appeals to this national socialists. Beach what is your parties policy on all this, pray tell what has your fearless leader had to say on guns, after all he has had enough experience with them? I am proud to be a member of legitimate political party that works for the common good, WHAT ABOUT YOU!

"Twenty-five years ago, the present-day chairman of Australia First, Jim Saleam, provided a shotgun to two skinheads who fired into the home of the African National Congress representative in Australia. Saleam was sentenced to three-and-a-half years' jail for his involvement.

p/s Beach, were you at the Brisbane rally?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/on-the-march-20140602-39d0h.html

Paul1405,

The Greens is just a spoiler party. A protest party that could not be trusted for a minute by Labor even when signed up in partnership with them.

Gillard gave a superb opportunity to the Greens on a plate to show they could be positive and constructive and work in harmony, but no, the predictably mendacious Greens under Bob Brown immediately soiled in the nest, and even had the hide to claim government initiatives as entirely their own, but they were never there to shoulder the burden when there was work to be done, or fault to be rectified.

Predictably the Greens deliberately conflate thousands of law-abiding licensed firearms owners and their legitimately applied for and registered property, with criminals and their illegal weapons.

By creating mayhem and sly deals with Barry O'Farrell the Greens managed to waste hundreds of thousands of NSW taxpayer dollars to have the successful Game Council, a government body in any event, was shifted under a department. That bureaucratic seat-shifting that doubtless resulted in some senior bureaucratic gnome benefiting over another. It is the sort of stupid exercise that exasperates everyone and accomplishes nothing at all on the ground. No ferals were culled through that needless expenditure, but large sums of taxpayers' dollars would are now being wasted on changing signage, offices and so on.

The grandstanding Greens protest party are the cynics of Australian politics. They are nothing like the environment party they started off as and it is factions like the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens that are responsible.

Paul,

Now you are getting desperate, the shooters of NSW had reservations about the impartiality of Steve Dunn and so did ICAC.

See: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/icac-finds-eddie-obeid-joe-tripodi-steve-dunn-corrupt-over-series-of-deals/story-e6frg6nf-1226944045826

What's Dunn doing these days?

That Brian Boyle had day to day dealings with the Shooters' and Fishers' Party members/representatives is not denied they are, after all, vitally interested in the state of hunting in NSW.
What Boyle denied was political involvement and neither you nor the Green MPs have shewn that this is not true.

Right on the ball there, OTB.

Here's an example of "Sandalplank's" methodology,

"Greens MP calls for handgun ban

The Sydney Morning Herald, March 9, 2011

A Greens MP has called for a statewide ban on handguns, calling them the weapon of choice for criminals in New South Wales.
The party renewed its call for a ban on semi-automatic handguns after three people were shot on Tuesday night during a home invasion in Sydney's inner west.
“There is simply no reason why people, criminals, should be getting access to semi-automatic handguns, because they're the weapons of choice for criminals here in NSW,” David Shoebridge said. “They deliver multiple rounds and are easily concealed.”
Mr Shoebridge said the major political parties needed to stop “playing politics” and take action to reduce the level of gun crime.
“For too long the major parties have been playing politics on firearms here in NSW, keen to do deals with the Shooters in the NSW upper house, so we're not getting the kind of protection that citizens should have from gun crime here,” he told reporters outside Parliament House.
“The time has come to act. The time has come to ban these weapons from NSW.”
Mr Shoebridge said there was a chance the Shooters Party would have the balance of power in the upper house following the March 26 State Election.
“The Greens are calling now on all parties to make a commitment that they will not do deals with the Shooters that would increase the numbers of firearms in our communities,” he said in a statement.
Comment was being sought from the Shooters and Fishers Party."

Put the boot into the law-abiding and virtually ignore the criminal.

Is mise: “There is simply no reason why people, criminals, should be getting access to semi-automatic handguns,

Well that IS something I do agree with.

Is mise: “The Greens are calling now on all parties to make a commitment that they will not do deals with the Shooters.

Every member of Parliament should make a commitment not to even consider anything the Greens have to say in any respect.

Jayb,

Iagree with that too, where I find the Greens amiss is that they seem to think that going after law-abiding shooters is the way to stop the criminals.

They have been challenged numerous times to give us all the benefit of their wisdom and tell the world how criminals can be stopped from getting hand guns but they don't seem to have a policy, they have a raft of policies on just about everything else, including how to make life hard for farmers, but fall short on stopping criminal activities.

Interesting...by the sounds of it, Australian males cant be trusted with firearms?

Love to here your next response?

Tally

Tally,

Australians, male and female, can be trusted with firearms and more and more of them are getting firearms licences and buying guns; it's only fringe nutter groups like the Greens that see this as a problem.

The Greens and their fellow travelers were loud in their demands that all shooters be licenced, that came about and now they whinge that there are law-abiding citizens taking up shooting.

Is mise....Yes the Greens are a very worrying bunch, Iam not sure where they start and where they finish. They mostly run around like headless chooks with no real direction, which I agree. As for guns, the US has its problems to the fact and in all countries,one can only hope there in the right hands.

"but fall short on stopping criminal activities" true, but who ever said humans were logical? Tony Abbott's thinking's with-out the rag-tag fringe dwellers, there would be no comparison to which and what he stands for.

Too much red tape can slow the proceedings and given how fast things need to move, all factions are shooting themselves in the foot so to speak.

Tally

Is Mise,
I totally agree with David Shoebridge and his call for a statewide ban on handguns. If the state government had taken heed of what David had said at the time (2011) maybe, there would have been a lot less gun violence on Sydney's streets over past three years. Ban the hand guns and increase the penalties for possession. The only 'private' need for hand guns could extend to a few cases of security guards having need for them, but again, they need to be strictly controlled.
Some sections of the gun happy brigade, given half a chance would turn Sydney into some kind of Dodge City! As for calling The Greens a fringe nutter group, are you saying that the over 400,000 people in NSW who voted Green at the last state election are fringe nutters? Or is the handful that voted for The Shooters Party the fringe nutters, David Shoebridge was the 3rd person elected to the LC in 2011 on the first count, Brown for The Shooters fell in at the 308th count in 18th position out of 21.

Beach, your continual slandering of The Green is your right, free speech and all that, but it is a bit rich coming from a bloke who's own extreme right party can't get beyond one half of one percent of popular support. Beach despite all your venting of spleen on The Greens I fully expect our vote to once again increase in 2015, just as it has constantly improved over the past 20 years, I expect we will win an extra seat in the Council and pick up another seat in the Assembly in New South Wales. Will Mr half a percent Jim be running again? LOL.

Paul,

What is David Shoebridge's answer to the illegal manufacture of handguns and submachine guns? Ban machine tools?

To the illegal import of handguns via the Postal service? Ban Australia Post?

To the illegal import of handguns concealed in other things in Containers? Have Customs open and inspect every consignment in every container?

His answer, so far, is to attack law-abiding fellow citizens.

As to the support that the Greens get, then one can only wonder at the mentality of those that so vote, however the Greens are still a fringe group as are the Shooters' and Fishers' Party; however there is a big difference, the MPs of the Greens lie in Parliament whereas the Shooters' MPs do not.

Is Mise there is an old saying, "50,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong" but according to you 400,000 N S Welshmen, or over a million Australians who vote for The Greens can be. Were the people who voted Liberal and Labor in NSW wrong given the amount of CORRUPTION uncovered in those two parties. Where do you rate The Australia First Party with 0.0001% support? Off the planet I would say, but Beach most likely would not agree.

It is a poor defense when trying to justify one wrong, by pointing to other wrongs, as you have attempted to do.

Paul,

"It is a poor defense when trying to justify one wrong, by pointing to other wrongs, as you have attempted to do."

Not so, all that I'm asking is why 'Sandalplank' is attacking the law-abiding whilst seeming to ignore the criminals.
What is his answer to illegal manufacture and import of illegal weapons?

Why not go after the criminals?
I rather think that there is more mileage in attacking the innocent and farmers than there is in attempting something constructive.

p1405: As for calling The Greens a fringe nutter group, are you saying that the over 400,000 people in NSW who voted Green at the last state election are fringe nutters?

Yes, of course. Why do you have to ask. It's a sort of breed of Sheep. As they say on Star Trek, "Following blindly where no sane man would dare to go. There's life in the Universe, Jim, but not as we know it."

p1405: "50,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong"

There's 1.2 Billion moslems in the world, an' their "Wrong." What's you point. Or, as Mrs Murphy said as she saw the parade come past, "There's my Johnny,. He's the only one in step." ;-)

After Port Arthur Australia went tough on guns, and that resulted in the number of gun deaths being halved by 2006. Since 2006 there has been a softening on gun laws and today gun deaths are back to pre 1996 levels. Its time once more to get tough on guns in Australia.

This is a year old but is a good guide as to the state of play with guns at the moment.

http://www.news.com.au/national/is-australia-staring-down-the-barrel-of-a-gun-crisis/story-fncynjr2-1226690018325

Paul1405,

Likely you just grab at any headline as 'Watermelon' Greens are prone to do, but that report is about criminals and their illegal guns, not licensed owners with legal, registered firearms.

Your post is just another instance of the cynical headline hunting Greens deliberately conflating the foul criminals with the many thousands of lawful firearms owners, many of who have been farmers or clay pigeon shooters for longer than most here have been alive and all of whom have been certified by police checks for their good character and lack of criminality.

Then again of course, with the Greens being so soft on crime, especially involving illicit drugs - which also happens to be the most common source of serious violence, including use of weapons - the Greens would never be credible on the subject anyhow.

Anyhow, what about this from the news item you linked to? See here,

<Crime experts say there has been a change in behaviour among outlaws.
One former counter terrorism officer, who spoke to The Australian and asked not to be named, said the gun culture had become so ingrained among Middle Eastern males in southwest Sydney that they have taken to settling so-called "honour'' disputes with guns.
"The culture is all guns and drugs. If someone looks at your wife the wrong way, you shoot them. They think they're bulletproof and they have this willful disregard for authority.''>
http://www.news.com.au/national/is-australia-staring-down-the-barrel-of-a-gun-crisis/story-fncynjr2-1226690018325

Could it be that your Greens' featherweight, Shoebridge, is afraid to finger the real offenders for example the violent drug-trafficking Eastern Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs and prefers to slander defenceless ordinary law-abiding citizens instead?

That does seem to be the way with the Greens doesn't it? -Attracting those small but needed percentages of disaffected, wrong-uns and plumb crazy to vote for them.

Shame, Greens, shame!

Paul,
Not only is it a year old but it's not a good indicator at all.

"Did Australia’s gun laws really save 200 lives a year?
Background
• The number of firearm-related deaths was declining prior to Australia’s 1996 gun laws.
The decline continued after the legislative changes.
• Populist media and politicians have claimed that Australia’s gun laws “saved about 200 lives annually”.
This claim has not been properly examined."

See: http://www.ic-wish.org/Fact%20sheet%20Gun%20Laws%20and%20200%20Lives%20per%20Year.pdf

This is based on ABS findings.

Beach, another one of your baseless attacks on The Greens. I challenge you to produce the evidence that The Greens are "soft on crime". The evidence is there, less guns in the community, the less gun crime there is. As for all the nonsense that only law abiding people own legal guns. Following Howard's buy back the number of gun deaths in Australia declined.
You never did comment on Jim Saleam and his personal gun crime. Maybe with you, Jim is an exception, and it's you who is soft on crime.

Paul,

".... Following Howard's buy back the number of gun deaths in Australia declined."

Of course it did, it continued the downward spiral that already existed and the continuation of that spiral had nowt to do with Howard's gun grabbing laws as is shewn by the ABS based info in my last post.

Your use of the statistic is typical of the Greens misuse of statistics and their habit of pushing untruths.

If the Greens are not soft on crime then they should be targeting the criminal misuse of firearms not making life harder for the law-abiding especially the farmers

Is Mise,

You make out all farmers are law abiding citizens, obviously mot!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-30/farmer-in-land-dispute-charged-with-murder/5634006

The community was rightly shocked by the above. Remember cut the guns and cut the crime. I am not opposed to gun ownership where there is a legitimate reason to have one.

Paul,

"You make out all farmers are law abiding citizens, obviously mot!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-30/farmer-in-land-dispute-charged-with-murder/5634006

The community was rightly shocked by the above. Remember cut the guns and cut the crime. I am not opposed to gun ownership where there is a legitimate reason to have one."

Where did I make out that all farmers are law-abiding citizens?
What I said was that the Greens unfairly target them.

You illustrate one case, where are all the others?
In this case did the accused have a licence?
He was a property owner, a primary producer, so even the Greens usually agree that such people should be allowed to own firearms.

@ Paul1405, Friday, 7 November 2014 5:50:35 PM

Point to where the police state the offender was duly licensed and the firearm was registered.

You are also silent about this,
"On Wednesday the Moree Local Court was told Turnbull had been in a long-running dispute with the NSW Office of Environment and Heritage, and HAD A CRIMINAL HISTORY[my caps]"

However, completely unabashed by that, you are nonetheless misleading through inferring something nasty and utterly wrong and undeserved against the many thousands of lawful licensed owners, aren't you?

Those fine upstanding licensed citizens have something you and many Greens very likely cannot produce yourselves, which is a police certified clean bill of character and absence of criminal past.

However you and the Greens bag them for their good character and like uncouth schoolboys cat-call as 'Rambos'. Nothing could be further from the truth and you know it. It is unconscionable nasty fabrication and disgusting.

Is it any wonder Julia Gillard referred to the Greens as simply a protest party and reliable only in its treachery.

Beach, I note you have a propensity to support a police state with << police certified clean bill of character and absence of criminal past.>> Are you saying that unless you have police clearance you can't be of good character, and therefore are suspect? Greens MP's are all of good repute, and they do not need or desire police certification to prove this good character of theirs.

Some Greens MPs are not of good repute as they are reputed to be liars.

This debate has run out of steam, as we canvassed the issues extensively last time. and it proved to be a no contest, my evidence was overwhelming, the pro guns had no answer. The charges leveled by The Greens MP's against Boyle and The Game Council were fully vindicated by Steve Dunn's inquiry. Typically those with an axe to grind like Beach, vehemently anti Green, vehemently regressive, ultra right in belief, such people are supportive of a police state. They want noting to do with gun control, they will not be satisfied until they see the total arming of the citizenry to form some kind of perverted peoples militia, to subjugate all those that disagree with their extremists views. Heaven help us if they ever were to get their way. Fortunately while they can not muster anymore than a half a percent of community support, The Greens are even more popular than ever, as they carry on the good fight on behalf of the people.

Give over, Paul, your champion Dunn was found to be corrupt by the ICAC.

You have lost.

Is Mise, if Dunn was to act with some indiscretion in regards to other unrelated natters, well, he too should be booted out like Boyle was. Boozy Barry was found to be, well, should we say liberal with the truth, again another unrelated matter, poor Boozy got what he deserved Dunn's been done, Boyle has been lanced, the Game Council is a shot duck, and Boozy Barry is no more. BUT THE GREENS MARCH ON! Did I say March, The Greens will triumph in NSW once more come March 2015, given the strong stand they take on all the important issues for the people, like gun control.

Paul1405,

Greens 'gun control'? That is a joke surely. The Greens demand 'open door immigration' that guarantees the importation of toxic political systems, corruption and crime. How did Rotherham occur in the UK and why is it impossible now to stamp out the drugs and child sex trafficking?

The Greens are superficial and frivolous, all headlines and no substance. Spreading fat behinds in the Senate and nothing positive or constructive produced in years, or ever. In fact they waste everyone else's time with their spoiling and grandstanding.

If the Greens really wanted to reduce gun crime and violence they would encourage their members not to buy the recreational drugs that fund the criminal gangs, including the Middle Eastern gangs that are taking over the bikies. Although the Middle Eastern gangs use weapons anyhow to resolve minor differences. That brings into focus the Greens open door immigration policy...where to start with the feckless Greens is the problem.

Paul,

You said that Boyle lied, where is your evidence, references?

Boyle claimed that he was lied about by the NSW Green's MPs, he gave his evidence under oath, where are the Greens refutation of his claims?

No amount of name calling or attempts at humour will alter the facts that the Greens told lies about Brian Boyle in Parliament and did so in the cowardly knowledge that he had no recourse as they were protected by Parliamentary Privilege.

Utter gutlessness.

THE GREENS continue to fight the good fight on gun control, crime, substance abuse the list goes on, regardless of what you chaps say. Beach tries to grind that raciest axe of his, so be it. throwing in green herrings left right and center, Rotherham UK what does that have to do with gun control in NSW, nothing!
You both are only peeved off that The Greens are opposed to unrestricted gun laws, similar to those that operate in many US states. If you want to check out the the results of unrestricted gun laws, take one look at the US. The Greens are opposed to ALL crime, including crimes which involves the violent use of guns. I have no objections to the proper use of guns, what so ever. Even the arch conservative John Howard recognised the need to do something about guns in the community after the Port Arthur massacre, far more relevant than something in the UK.
Beach, Lee Rhiannon is a very slim person, if you want to check out fat behinds, visit the NSW LC and check out the fat posteriors on the pair from the Shooters Party, the two Bobs.

Paul,

The references, sil vous plait.

References not rhetoric.