I watched "Insight" on SBS the other night and
heard accounts of the difference that cannabis oil
as a medical treatment made to the lives of
epilepsy sufferers, cancer patients, and other
life-threatening illnesses. I heard how Medical
Marijuana has been shown to successfully reduce pain
in chronic illnesses such as Multiple Sclerosis and
Parkinsons and reduce the severity of chemotherapy -
related symptoms such as vomiting and nausea.

I could not help but wonder why cannabis is not legalised
for medical purposes if it provides so much relief to so
many sufferers.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

Dear Foxy,

The reason is historical.

At the time it was discovered that hemp makes stronger ropes, which were especially needed for sailing, and requires much less water to grow, so that alarmed cotton-growers who used their influence on the American government to ban hemp so it doesn't ruin their business.

As we in Australia depend on the Americans for security, we cannot afford to make them angry at us, so we ban it as well.

Saw this a while back on Foreign Correspondent.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2014/s4027079.htm

"Very soon in America marijuana will be slickly branded and sold by men in suits - or at least the multi-million dollar companies they’re setting up to cash in on the state-by-state legalization of dope.

It’s happening in states that have long embraced a system enabling the dispensing of medical marijuana. Colorado’s gone legal. Next month Washington State will become the second state to fully legalise marijuana.

Just like alcohol, if you’re over 21 you’ll be able to buy it.

In anticipation of the new laws, big businesses are jockeying for the jump in this booming market. New products and gadgets are being developed and refined. They’re polishing marketing and sales strategies and defining their brands, much like cigarettes, for retail release.

A report commissioned for the White House says the medical and illicit cannabis industry is worth $40B per year. Cannabis Inc. is busily convincing state legislatures and the federal Government as well that $40B is better off out of the black market and in the sight of the taxman.

America’s new-wave of pot entrepreneurs couldn’t be more different to those of the past. They’ve ditched the hippie clothes, rasta plaits and ponytails for thousand-dollar suits, business plans and MBAs."

Once the men in suits get hold of the product, I reckon it'll be legalised quick smart.

Slightly off topic (as Loud Goose would say:) but relevant to the subject.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for your comments.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens
in Australia if America leads the way.
The Prime Minister seems to be in favour of
legalisation of medical cannabis:

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/566672/20140918/medical-cannabis-marijuana-australia-tony-abbott.htm

Dear Poirot,

Thank You for the information.
The TV program had a big impact on me and I do hope
that medical cannabis will be legalised in this country.
At least in Victoria the Labor Party is promising that
it will be if they get elected in November.

You a Goose?
No.
I'd say you're more of a Swan. ;-)

I do not believe that medical specialists would deny us anything of benefit. If anyone has ever been exposed to or read about scientific research they would be left in no doubt whatsoever that such is the drive (and competition) that they are eminently trustworthy in chasing to the ground any possibility of worth.

I come at this from another direction: where the State ceases to be our servant and presumes to control us at the behest of small and powerful lobby groups, it is time to toss out that menage of pollies and start afresh. Laws need to be based on evidence and continually reviewed.

I can't see why anyone 60+ and doubtless suffering from the rigors of old age shouldn't be allowed (there we go again, government permitting us to do things!) to grow a supply sufficient for their own use.

If cannabis had similar side effects to the medications commonly prescribed for the elderly I could understand why 'authorities' would be concerned. That does not seem to be the case, except where young brains are concerned.

We have a family member with rapid onset rheumatic arthritis. I am astounded to be advised how the condition affects every part of his body and shocked to see a man who was so athletic and active now struggling physically and limiting his activities through necessity. As for the pain, take Panadol they say. He is an avid gardener and should be growing his own help, especially since low hallucinogenic (should that matter at his stage of life?) plant cultivars are available.

Rheumatoid arthritis, not as 'rheumatic'.

Dear OTB,

Thank You for your comments.

I'm somewhat reserved when it comes to legalising
cannabis I must admit. I've had a family member
who smoked it for decades and ended up with very serious
side effects. However, I am for the legalisation of
medican cannabis which under regulation has been shown to
successfully reduce pain in chronic illnesses.

I fully endorse legal medical marijuana for both OUG and myself.

Rusty

Well people, All I can see that it helps.

Tally

I've been doing a bit more research on the subject
and it does appear to be more complex than I had
first thought.

Some websites talk about the bad effects of marijuana.
Things like altered perceptions and moods, impaired
co-ordination, difficulty with thinking and problem
solving, disrupted learning and memory. They go on to
say that marijuana affects brain development and when
used heavily by young people its effects on thinking
and memory may last a long time or even be permanent.

Then we're also told that marijuana smoke is an irritant
to the lungs, and frequent smokers can have many of the
same respiratory problems experienced by tobacco
smokers, such as a daily cough and phlegm or producing
more frequent acute chest illnesses and a heightened risk
of lung infections. I was not able to find a link yet between
marijuana smoking and lung cancer.

I then went to see whether marijuana can be regarded as a
medicine and found that there are so many different
compounds within cannabis - some are useful others are not.
I guess this simply confirms that this should be tested,
regulated, and the benefits (or not) be made quite clear.

Supervision seem to be the major point being stressed, as well
as thorough testing before anything is legislated.

Here are the possible side effects of a commonly prescribed 'minor' drug to reduce uric acid build-up (Gout),

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/allopurinol-side-effects.html

I see no impediment to the elderly self medicating with their home grown and consequently very cheap Cannabis. I don't say they should be required to get a medical opinion either. At their stage of life what is the State doing in there telling them how to live their lives. Particularly while politicians are dumping on them for being alive at all and fostering intergenerational jealousy.

Regarding cost, the proud, independent often self-supporting elderly I meet through voluntary work DO miss the $6 or whatever they are forced to pay for a prescription to be filled. That means they do not buy protein. Then there is the cost of the medical appointment and transport to and fro. They should be able to grow a dozen plants, hang cuttings in the shed to dry and later smoke it, make pancakes or stuff their pillows(sic), whatever they like.

If only there was an equal concern being exhibited for their pain, physical and emotional in their present lives, as there obviously is for them to take their own lives because they are burdensome to their relatives and the community.

The State is supposed to be serving the people, not telling old folk how to live their lives. It is looking very much as though the real impediment is government and entrepreneurs including GPs reaching agreement on how to commodify this easily grown plant so all get to make money out of it. Again, whose interests is the goverjnment supposed to be serving,

- politicians whose remuneration, travel and retirement benefits are the best in the world and
- entrepreneurs who want bigger Beamers

OR

- the exasperated general public?

I'm not too sure about this stuff. God knows, I'd love something that fixed pain, but only if it was not too harmful to everyone. Once we oldies have it, so will everyone

I had a mate, successful businessman retired young, who had sailed the world in a yacht he built himself. I saw him reduced to a giggling idiot sitting on a pile of the jetty giggling, most days, after he discovered pot.

Lost the lot, family, lovely lady, boat & his dignity, then just disappeared. Probably a homeless wreck today, if still around.

I also find it a little strange that the same people who claim tobacco smoke is a killer apparently see no problem with filling the lungs with pot smoke. Perhaps the purity of their thought renders pot smoke harmless & safe to inhale.

As I say, I just don't know enough about the stuff, so I'm not actually against it, but it does frighten me a bit after seeing my friend. I do think it's possible effect on the road toll should be properly understood, before too much liberalisation

Hasbeen,

While I see merit in your concerns, I believe that the law should apply only where there is substantial, measurable merit in it. That means evidence.

There is no reason why there should not be an allowance made for age. After all, regulators have no qualms nor legislative difficulty in drafting laws that limit the aged. Examples can be found in the licensing to drive motor vehicles. Another example could be the federal government as the nation's Number 1 drug dealer trying to claim some legitimacy as moral and health guardian by setting a minimum age for the purchase of tobacco products.

Citizens who reach 60 years can be relied upon to make their own informed decisions on the health. Why should federal governments that arguably could not make a success of a hot pie'n'chips stall if it was the only food shop in town be hanging over the shoulders of the elderly telling them what they can and cannot do in this respect?

You've created an interesting Topic here FOXY...

I've always been under the impression, that one of the main questions and concerns for all successive governments, is (i) how to keep organised crime out all facets of the Cannabis industry ? And (ii) how to eradicate the existing criminal groups that are already involved in the Cannabis industry ?

I understand Australia (Tasmania) already produces a large proportion, around 60% of the World's Medical Narcotic needs, by very effectively farming the Opium Poppy. Therefore I couldn't imagine there'd be any real difficulty in producing Cannabis in a similar fashion. Adopting their current security, marketing, and quality control measures, only for the production of Cannabis in this instance ? Why isn't it already underway, I don't really know ? As a copper we're not paid to moralize over the drug laws, just enforce them.

As to whether there are any long term effects, by ingesting Cannabis, who knows ? I certainly don't. Though on one hand, I've heard eminent medico's state, there ARE deleterious effects caused by long term use, while many other equally eminent medico's, say there are NO verifiable damaging effects, by it's prolonged use ? I haven't got a clue myself ? No different from cigarette smoking I guess ? Though Cannabis can be ingested in several ways I'm told ?

If it really does provide legitimate relief for chronic pain or, it manifestly provides help for those other people, who're having a really tough time with serious issues, that are badly affecting their lives, eg. severe mental illness, such a chronic anxiety or some equally nasty phobias - then make it available to those who really need it, under the protection of a medical doctor's script.

I've witnessed too many absolutely senseless suicides, to deny these poor buggers relief, from some of life's lousy hands they've been dealt ? Come on you lazy pollies, and earn your substantial salaries for once, and enact some positive laws, that may actually assist nearly everyone, at one time of their lives, or another !

I've always been under the impression, that one of the main questions and concerns for all successive governments, is (i) how to keep organised crime out all facets of the Cannabis industry ? And (ii) how to eradicate the existing criminal groups that are already involved in the Cannabis industry ?

o sung wu....again, you bring comfort of mind.

Money again?

Sorry, only good at short hand:)

It all comes down to what we are as humans.

Would you let animal suffer?

Would you let your loved one suffer?

Would you?

We are talking about medical dope, not the ones that use it incorrectly.

We are talking about a substances that are not fully clear unless you can put yourself in the shoes of those that suffer?

Its always a long road for the right answer, maybe that's the problem.

Very strict rules or it stays the same.

Tally

I'm also not an expert on this subject.
I can only speak from my own personal
experience regarding a family member as
I mentioned earlier - who smoked pot for
most of his life and the serious effects
it had on him - ending up with a serious
medical condition.

However, having watched that TV Program recently -
"Insight" on SBS - and heard the various stories
from seriously ill people that medical cannabis
has helped.
It made me see the positive benefits of
legislating medical cannabis.

If cannabis oil as a medical treatment can work for
epilepsy sufferers, cancer patients and other
life threatening illnesses and provide relief and
reduce the effects of chemotherapy - related
symptoms such as vomiting and nausea. If medical
marijuana which has been shown to successfully reduce
pain in chronic illnesses such as Multiple Schlerosis
and Parkinsons - then I am all for the legalisation
of medical cannabis. Providing it has been tested,
and is regulated by the proper medical authorities.

As for allowing cannabis for elderly people to enjoy as a
recreational drug? No. Sorry OTB. I can't agree with
you on this one - there's far too many medical side-effects
against that - having my own family experience to go by.
Not all elderly people are capable of making the right
decisions either. And to open this door for them - I'd
rather not. However, ultimately, this is a decision that
the voting public can decide on or bring forward as a
topic at the next election. Where all sides of the argument
could be presented, and the public could then decide.

Foxy,

If you return to what I wrote, I was proposing Cannabis for the elderly for their medical problems such as rheumatoid arthritis. Few elderly do not have medical conditions that could not be assisted by Cannabis.

That they would have to be 'authorised' by a GP and be required to buy commercially does not make sense. They are adults who have reached senior age by managing their risks and making (usually) the right choices in life. Goodness, for years most have handled much more dangerous substances and plants in their own gardens and in the kitchen, and they certainly consume far more dangerous drugs that they are forced to buy from pharmacies.

Honestly though, if they wanted to use MJ for relaxation and some relief from the pains and even the disappointments of old age, so what? What makes anyone here, or government, their keepers and judges of their morality, since it seems to have come down to that?

We need to review society's and the medical profession's stereotyping of 'old age' and stop patronising them, while shoving them off in a quiet corner out of sight and out of mind (but hand over those assets and property, ASAP, make that NOW!).

Dear OTB,

My apologies. I misunderstood what you were
saying. And of course I do agree with the
valid points that you've raised. If medical
marijuana can successfully reduce pain and
help in other life-threatening illnesses -
then by all means it should be provided to
people who need it.

Foxy,

Thank you.

I was drawing a bow with two strings which could have made it confusing. Since I have done more volunteering with seniors who are living independently I have become convinced that the traditional way of viewing and dealing with 'old age' is wrong in so many ways and probably was always wrong. It is not assisted by the lack of attention paid to the subject in medical training.

Dear foxy,

It is interesting that the experience of legalising pot in various US states has shown to lead to a decrease in teenage use.

It seems by taking the taboo away it has become less desirable for that particular age group.

While it seems that teenagers are more likely to develop some form of dependency on marijuana (1-6) compared to adults (1-10) the fears about it causing schizophrenia have abated because of recent studies.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html

Also its legalisation appears to have an impact of reducing violent crime. Alcohol is by far the biggest contributor to violence in our community and yet it is the legal drug of many.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/medical-marijuana-crime-study_n_5044397.html

Other studies have shown a decrease in partner violence, particularly when both partners smoke.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/25/marijuana-study_n_5711217.html

But the big thing is that as a prohibited substance pot use turns our children into criminals. I remember a conversation with a senior public servant here in Victoria. He related how Jeff Kennett worked pretty hard behind the scenes to get marijuana decriminalised in this state. This was after having a conversation with his two teenage sons and realising the impact a possession conviction would have on the future of his and other youngsters.

Regulating it as we do alcohol makes perfect sense.

Dear OTB,

Your knowledge is much greater than mine in this
area - and I appreciate greatly your sharing with
us your experiences on this discussion.

I've had to deal with the many frustrations that
I encountered when my mother-in-law went into a
nursing home. She went down-hill very quickly -
and did not last very long. My own mother is now
in an "Assisted-Living," facility - and I want to
keep her out of a nursing home for as long as I
possibly can. I get the distinct impression that
nursing homes are places where people are simply
waiting to die. I know that may sound a bit harsh -
but I feel that I want mum to remain as independent
as possible for as long as she can be. Of course
that's not always an option for people - but I'm doing
my best to help her as much as I can.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Thank You for all the links and information.
I certainly don't have the answers to this
issue and it's great to hear a variety of opinions
on the topic and learn from various
sources what the results have been thus far.

All I've got to go on is my personal family experience,
which was dreadful. But of course I should not judge by
that one expereince. There are extenuating circumstances
as OTB has pointed out - where some good does come out
of the use of cannabis

Seems it matters little how deleterious an illicit drug may be, there's a certain appeal for many teens to at least try it, essentially because of the strong urging of peer groups to at least experiment with it.

The most dangerous of all illicit substances available on the streets today is that of ICE. With such horrendous and ghastly mind altering effects, it places both citizen and police alike in mortal danger to even try apprehending a user. Super human strength, alertness, impervious to pain, massive EGO'S, to such a point they believe it impossible their EGO'S can be challenged or they themselves can be physically bettered. Far more dangerous than those older amphetamine sulphates, that stimulate the CNS and create inordinate alertness, no need of sleep, and again, stimulates one's EGO also ! But nowhere to the same extent of the drug ICE.

According to a special article in a fairly recent edition of the 'FBI Bulletin' it was claimed the drug ICE represented the single greatest threat to police than anything else. The really interesting fact that emerged from interviews Agents from the Bureau had with many of the ICE offenders, almost ALL started their illicit drug taking with Cannabis !

Does taking 'soft' drugs like Cannabis and it's many derivatives, lead the younger people to taking and experimenting with so called hard drugs ? Yet I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some legislation pass through our various parliamentary systems, allowing for the drug to be used for the express purpose, of relieving those in chronic pain ! And I for one would 'HAVE' to support it's clinical use, notwithstanding what risks that may still exist for it's continued illicit use ! If that, still represents a too higher risk, why then do we still permit the use of alcohol ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

I'm not sure if smoking cannabis leads to taking
stronger drugs. I'll have to do a bit more research
on that subject. I don't know of any link that
cannabis has with ice. And you've raised some good
points especially alcohol.

It's late and I'm going to say good night.
But Thank You for your thoughts on this subject.
As always they are greatly appreciated.

I agree with legalising medical cannabis oil that can only be prescribed by a doctor.
Unfortunately, just letting anyone decide to grow their own, and throw it into their casseroles or cookies as they please, would not work.

It would be too hard to work out the correct dosage from plants needed to assist in their particular ailment, especially the elderly.
Marihuana is a drug, and it can interact with any other medications the elderly and the sick may already be taking, unless monitored by the GP.

If the elderly were all out there 'growing their own' and flinging it about for their own indiscriminate use, then the rate of falls and other accidents in their homes and in cars etc would sky-rocket!

I have never heard of anything so stupid !

Dear Suse,

Thank You for your comments.

You've also raised some very valid points.
And being a nurse you'd know more about the
effects of drugs on people. As I stated
previously, I don't know that much about the
side effects of cannabis but it does make sense
that this drug like others should be regulated.

Hi Foxy, yes I imagine if this was a simple issue it would have been legalised years ago.
I too am concerned re the mental health problems that occur as a result of overuse of cannabis amongst the young and not so young people.

I have no doubt that use of cannabis can lead to use of more serious illicit drugs for those looking for that extra 'high'.
Cannabis may be 'natural', but then again so are deadly toadstools!

Dear Suseonline,

I am wondering how you see marijuana/drug interactions being any different from let's say codeine/alcohol interactions?
http://www.alcoholic.org/research/what-are-the-effects-of-mixing-codeine-and-alcohol/

If both codeine and cannabis have proven medical benefits then why should their potential misuse preclude others from those undisputed benefits?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong just interested in your rationale.

Dear foxy,

I am just wondering if you think your family member may have had a propensity for self-medication for what ever reason, and had it not been cannabis might a different drug have served that purpose with similar tragic results?

Dear Suse,

I have family members who started out on pot
and ended up with stronger drugs. They are
paying the price for it today.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I don't think it was a matter of "self-medication,"
I think it was a lifestyle choice. I'm talking about
my older brother here and his wife. They both live
in Byron-Bay and had been pot smokers for decades.
Then they went onto other drugs - and he's had
a triple-by-pass, and today she's got Hep.C - for which
she is undergoing treatment. She shared needles in her
youth. I love them both dearly - but at least they've
now stopped with the drugs. Although the irony is -
they're on prescribed drugs instead.

@Suseonline, Friday, 10 October 2014 1:08:46 AM

With your attitudes to older people you represent the traditional, dinosaur negative stereotyping of the mature adulthood stages of life. According to the uninformed authoritarian, paternalistic mentality people like you, men and women are incompetent to manage themselves after the middle age that is from 35-50 years.

With present day life expectations that leave a hell of a long time and (according to your negative stereotyping!) decades of learned incompetence and dependence (and finally giving up in despair!) for mature folk at the hands of their relatives, carers, the traditional medical establishment and government bureaucracy.

It must seem to so impossible to you that this women exists or that MOST men and women and definitely not the rare exception are very capable of making their own decisions, especially their health choices, up to death. Here, read this, because this worthy woman could today rise above all others to win a Nobel Peace Prize, today too, keep up with the news,

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4104088.htm

Yeah, I know, if she wins the prize you will be declaring,

"I have never heard of anything so stupid!"
[Suseonline, Friday, 10 October 2014 1:08:46 AM]

Sorry about the typos folks, as per usual I was doing two jobs at once and men are not so good at multiskilling or so the story goes.

However I will take this opportunity to say that the youngest of the four mature aged people I gave a lift to the shopping centre today is a spry 83 years and applies her accountancy skills helping out a church and a couple of local charities. "Pass it on", she says.

In any event, giving these people a lift to the shops and collection later when they are done is as a good an example as any of the usually simple, mundane support people in their mature adulthood benefit from to keep up their independent lifestyles, thus saving the taxpayer millions every years and keeping their interest in life and enjoyment of it still blooming.

That is why I can see likely benefit to mature old especially from the removal of the unnecessary, restrictive laws that prevent their access to an easily grown plant like cannabis that could relieve some serious pain and lessen reliance on analgesics and other drugs with serious side effects. The example I gave before was rheumatoid arthritis.

Frankly, it is urgent that society reviews the traditional negative stereotyping of the mature adulthood years. Not that it is likely that there would ever be any proper consultation with the mature aged on what they want. The traditional stereotyping of them would be too strong for that, and of course there are always those professionals, bureaucrats and entrepreneurs who reliably will always be putting their own secondary agenda first.

Dear OTB,

I'm so glad that you provided us with the link on
Dr Catherine Hamlin. I watched that particular
episode of Lateline and marvelled at how much good
the doctor has done and is doing for young women
in Ethiopia. But we've got a great tradition in this
wonderful country of ours for both nurses and doctors
working so hard to make a difference to people's lives.
Apart from Catherin Hamlin we can take a look at what
the Flying Doctor Service does for regional Australia.
Then Elizabeth Kenny comes to mind who discovered a
different way to treat polio. There's Dr Maura McGill
Australia's No. 1 expert on natural hormones and menopause
and PMT/PMS management. She lives on the Gold Coast in
Queensland and has helped thousands of women, and the list
goes on. Look at the Australian who discovered the bionic
ear, and of course there's Dr Munjed Al Muderis (the
robotic - bionic man who helps people with missing limbs).
His book, "Walking Free," is out currently sharing his
remarkable life story with us.

There are many such cases of exceptional people doing
exceptional things. Of course we don't all fit into these
categories - and allowances have to be made for our own
safety and well-being. I'm sure you'll agree.

Good afternoon to you FOXY...

Your comments apropos family members defeating illicit drugs, only to be 'caught up' on licit (scripted) drugs is, paradoxical really ? You hear of so many people admitting to being addicted to 'prescription' drugs and entering some 5 Star facility to break their habit ? Surely their prescribing physicians must absorb some responsibility for their patients becoming addicted to legal medication ?

Gee, it's a massive question that confronts society ? Become dependent on illegal drugs ? Alternatively, become dependent on legal drugs ? Either way the poor ol' patient loses out whichever way he goes. I'm buggered then, I've been on a regimen consisting of 50mg of Kapanol twice daily, and 10mls of Ordine 5, morning and evening, since my retirement ! I guess I should blame my Doctor for my 'legal' addiction ?

Definitely Not ! Actually, it was I that consulted him ! Seeking his opinion. All he did was to 'legitimize it', and ensure my symptoms, precisely mandated a treatment regimen involving prolonged opiate use. And to ensure my current levels of health were preserved, and not allowed to further deteriorate !

Foxy,

However my point wasn't that exceptional people can do exceptional things, now was it?

Rather the point I was making but obviously failed to bring home, is that the traditional, stereotyping of mature adults as spittle drooling, dementia-suffering, government-dependent grey old wrinklies to be patronised and have their decisions made for them by social workers and the like, is utterly WRONG in most instances and demonstrably so.

Few who reach mature adulthood are incompetents who cannot manage their own risks, make their own informed decisions and take care of themselves.

However if it makes the discussion any easier, lets accept that any who are unable to handle even moderate independence are usually in care facilities. So what about the rest?

It beggars belief that some people presume they always know what the thousands (and numbers growing) of mature adults want and presume even further to 'represent' their interests whether they want it and have asked for it, or not.

In a former role (for a private company) I was invited to attend a conference on the 'aged' and their care and accommodation requirements. I asked the sponsoring public service big swinging knobs, State and federal, if any of the 'client' group were attending, knowing full well from reading the attendance list prior to attending (as any private contractor would!), that there were none.

The senior public servants, surprised by my question, immediately assured me that they themselves and their staff, along with the invited private professionals and businesses represented the aged. They already knew what 'the aged' wanted and one proceeded to reel off public service job titles and the qangos and companies there. OK, so were there any papers I could discover the methodology and outcomes of the consultations? Stony silence. Then, "Allow us to show you this 'initiative' for a bulldozed 'burb and smaller retirement units. Displace the old buggers and sell them smaller, expensive cells that are so hot in summer as to require retrofitted air-conditioning.

Any wonder that past mistakes are perpetuated and taxpayers' dollars are wasted.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Prescription drugs are a problem, and doctors need
to pay closer attention to what they're prescribing -
that's for sure. I'm on heavy meds at the moment and
one of the unpleasant side-effects for me has been
the fact that my meds make me feel very light-headed
and dizzy. I am having a holter-monitor put on me for
24 hours in December and I am seeing the specialist
again in January. At present I'm not too great. And I
feel so sorry for my husband. He's been a saint with what
he's had to put up with from me.

Dear OTB,

I did get the point that you were making regarding the
elderly but I guess that I got excited and carried away
by the link you gave on Dr Catherine Hamlin. I was also
blown away by your volunteer work and the compassion
that you've shown to others. I'm beginning to
see that - O Sung Wu was right about - when he once told me
that you were "A decent bloke!" Your actions speak louder
than words.

I agree with your concern about how the elderly are treated
in our society. That's why family involvement is so crucial
in their care.

Foxy,

Thanks again for understanding.

I am sorry about your health conditions and I wish you well. Each and every time you enter care you must be very careful to have at least one relative as well as your husband and a friend if possible who can be relied upon to represent your interests, and make sure that is known to the facility concerned. Partners can become exhausted, since they are usually that way when their loved ones are admitted.

It is far too easy to be put on the wrong treatment and care path - to be typecast as this or that (never to your favour) - by even relatively junior employees and case workers. That is from informed experience from observing the illness and treatment careers of others, some close.

Women may live over a third of their life as a mature adult. That is a very long time to be told, "Never you mind" and patronised by 'professionals' discussing them in the third person in their presence.

Dear OTB,

Thank You for your advice.

You've spot on. I've now had my second catheter
ablation (my first was last year). The first one
I was told was only 50 percent successful. Now
the second one I had in July of this year - and
everything was allright in the beginning but now
things have gone haywire. And I'm sure the heavy
meds aren't helping. I feel totally lethargic.
I asked the specialist if he could perhaps reduce
my dosage, but he wants to wait until January.
In the meantime - my life has deteriorated.
And I still have irregular heart rhythms and difficulty
in breathing at times.

Anyway, enough about me. I'm trying to stay positive.
But it's not easy.

Thank You for your well wishes. They are greatly
appreciated.

Dear OTB, I don't think anyone here has suggested that all the elderly are spittle drooling people who don't have choices in life, except you.
Looking for a non-existent argument as usual.

It is difficult to know how much actual medicated oil is in different amounts of raw cannabis leaves and plants, so for anybody to know the correct amount needed for their ailment they really need the manufactured oil medicine.

Only chemists and doctors know how much to prescribe and how they interact with a patient's other medications, although as time goes on, the patients get to know what they need.
You would know that already of course, with the knowledge gleaned from your volunteer work with the elderly? All those people you transport have all their mental faculties do they? That's great for them, because many don't.

SteeleRedux, there isn't any difference between worrying about drug interactions using drugs like codeine or marihuana and others, however, much more is known about interactions with codeine than cannabis.

As a general rule, low doses of codeine do not affect the brain as unpredictively as cannabis does. Most people have stopped using cannabis before they reach old age, so there haven't been enough studies on that age group's use of cannabis.
There are probably good reasons for that...

Oh geez FOXY I wasn't aware that you are again feeling unwell ? I'm very sorry to hear that, I really am. Please, please take good care of yourself, and don't let anything on this site or OLO upset, or anger you, as you had once described ? It's just NOT worth it, it, really isn't.

I'll bid you and everyone else on 'the Forum', a hearty good night.

Good night O Sung Wu.
Foxy, I hope you keep well, and continue to keep all the folk here on OLO on their toes. :)
Cheers,
Suse.

Suseonline,

Sadly, you are failing to recognise the prevalence and nature of ageist stereotypes.

That comes as no surprise. Ageist attitudes are deeply embedded in health delivery, in government and in society generally, and have been proved to be harmful to the health, daily functioning, wellbeing, and lifestyle of mature adults.

Your first exercise should be to go out and witness the many mature adults who have got themselves going with physical activities. Grannies with backpacks? No problem!

OTB....lol!
You never give up trying do you?
Good night....

I'd like to Thank each and everyone of you who
contributed to this discussion. It has exceeded my
expectation. However for me its now run its course.
Again Thank You once again and hopefully I shall
see you on other discussions.

Just as a post-script, 2000 years ago the Chinese were using cannabis as an anti-inflammatory specifically for rheumatoid arthritis, among other conditions.

As far as mature adults are concerned, the question isn't whether this product ought be legalised or not but rather, should government be presuming to make that moral judgement for mature adults who have lived 50 years and more ie., to restrict their choices in using it?

One could argue that very often it is the expensive drugs with lots of nasty side effects that are distributed by big pharma that should be regarded as 'alternate' medicine.

If cannabis wasn't already illegal, what possible evidence and what possible reasonable argument could a Government put to justify restricting its use by mature age adults.

At this juncture I should say that I have never used Cannabis myself. But then I do not suffer the chronic conditions and pains of the elderly either, and I can afford quality alcoholic tipples, which I don't use much of anyhow.

It is outrageous that mature age citizens are denied a cheap alternative for the pain relief that can enable them to function better and enjoy their lives, while at the same time reducing some of the other expensive and risky drugs they are being required to take.

I oppose regulation for the sake of it. If granny wants to spice her homemade oatmeal biscuits with some home grown MJ to relieve herself of her pain burden, to stimulate her appetite (it does that) and get her frame into action, why the hell shouldn't she? Who are we to be leaning over her shoulder and in the vast majority of cases, bothering her without bothering to lend a hand to help.

Let granny save $$ on her homemade relief and she might them be able to pay those skyrocketing council rates, or buy some protein, some chicken maybe.

Dear OTB,

Thank You for you additional thoughts on the topic.
You obviously feel very passionate about this issue.
I don't know enough about the side effects of cannabis.
I have never smoked it either. However, I understand what
you're saying about the elderly. It will be interesting
what the future government decisions will be as well
as that of the Australian Medical Association. I guess we'll
have to wait and see.

Hi ONTHEBEACH...

I agree with most of what you've said about permitting seniors (adults) access to the product as an alternate means of chronic pain relief. Further if it were to be legalised for that specific purpose, then it could be regulated by governments, in terms of it's purity, weight, pricing and distribution ?

The only difficulty that I can see, as I indicated in an earlier thread, somehow they need to be able to 'prise-out' or extricate any of the criminal element who may attempt to exercise control over any part of the process. Be it Cannabis, or Heroin or Ice, drugs are very big business in this country, in fact in the entire western world. For this reason, criminals won't relinquish their existing tight control, without formidable resistance I believe.

That said, the politicians (even a bipartisan approach perhaps) should take a bold step and actually legalise the drug, for the reasons that we've both prescribed herein. I really don't see a major problem myself ? All it would take, is some real leadership, in order to allow access to the drug, for the therapeutic and restorative benefits, as a legitimate analgesia for chronic pain. It could be easily achieved, by including it amongst the existing 'Schedule 8' drugs, with just a small stroke of a pen. So why not ?

I suffer from psoriatic arthritis and the good old weed serves me well. I don't give a rats what some moron.gov says. They'd rather I poison myself with Prednisolone[tm] which made me worse! Even the doctor who prescribed it screwed up and nearly killed me.

Just grow it inside under a grow lamp. No one from screwem.gov needs to know.

Hi there RAWMUSTARD...

Look, as long as the stuff aids in giving you substantial relief from the awful symptoms of Arthritis, I say good on you. I've been taking Morphine in several different forms, since I retired from the police force. Sure it provides some relief, but not for long. It's a case of increasing one's dose commensurate with the steady increase in pain, to a point that I will be on it for the rest of my life !

RAWMUSTARD it's a matter that I'm now consigned to being restrained in 'chemical handcuffs', until my death. What a extraordinary existence. It's for this reason my friend you have both my sympathy, and my blessing, for what it's worth ! Even spending over 32 years of police service, I don't even possess the personal courage of trying the Cannabis route ! Ridiculous really, like a frightened little child, yet in the past I've stared down some pretty heavy crooks, what an absolute joke... trouble is it's on me !

o sung wu,

As you know, Cannabis is highly profitable for organised crime. The very last thing thing organised crime wants is lawful competition, or better still, decriminalisation of horticulture of a small quantity of plants and a small quantity of product. That would knock gangs rotten.

RawMustard,

I know someone with the condition and some others who suspect it.

The sad news for you and other sufferers is that as long as Cannabis is prohibited, the very effective topical application route (creams) will be denied.

Yet steroids are prescribed!

Foxy,

You do understand as I hope others do, that as usual my concern and priority is for government to apply taxpayers money to priorities and obtain the best value for money expended?

As well, I concerned that laws are evidence-based and not exercises in populism and hypocrisy.

I could go on now about freedom and government staying out of citizens' private lives, however any who are familiar with my posting record would already recognise the common themes.

So if you think I am being an advocate for Cannabis I am not. What I am saying is obvious, that government is astride the wrong horse on this one insofar as the elderly are concerned. The restriction does not stand up to scrutiny, money is being wasted, the profitable businesses of organised crime gangs is being protected and more people, especially youth are coming into contact with hardened criminals.

'They', as in the political parties would already know that, so exactly what (or who) is preventing change? Before answering please remember that marijuana is worth hundreds of millions pa to criminal gangs and the corruption can be expected to permeate through all levels of society.

o sung wu, onthebeach, what you need is adrenalin, rather than pot.

I have direct experience of it's effectiveness, although I don't have experience of the effect of pot to compare.

I once had a sudden tooth ache so bad I could not think straight. It came on one Thursday night, before a race meeting. I had to get one of the crew drive the tow car to the circuit on Friday for practice, as I did not feel able to concentrate well enough to be safe.

About half an hour before my first practice session I suddenly realised all pain had disappeared, although I had taken no medication. The rest of Friday, Saturday & Sunday I was pain free. It was only on the drive home it hit me again.

I had a similar experience with really bad Diarrhea, which disappeared for the full weekend of a local race meeting, only to come roaring back Sunday night.

When it occurs naturally like this steroids appear to do no harm, & give great relief. Go find something that scares the hell out of you, & fix your pain.

I can control the pain of polymyalgia sciatica with the steroid prednisone quite well. I have learnt how to stop it quickly & minimize the amount of the stuff I have to use. Without it I could not function, but I can see by the way I bruise, & by bone scans the harm it is doing me.

Pity they don't have daily races for clapped out old racers, to get their dose of adrenalin naturally

o sung wu, there's nothing wrong with the good old weed. The problem is too many people are afraid of it because it's been demonised for ever by those that want it just where it is.

Sheesh, look at those in pubic life that smoke the stuff, Bath House Barry, Clinton, Bush .. Crikey, Keith Richards("Rolling Stones" hehe!) smoked it every day for decades and on a recent interview he did here in oz for one of the networks, he was quite sane and in full capacity of his mind; what age is he pushing now? Into his 70's for sure!

The argument around weed is riddled with hypocrisy, most that condemn it have never ever tried it and rely on study after study made by people with vested interests in keeping it right where it is!

And the cops, don't even get me started on them, policy enforcers, that's all they are. I know several that will bust you for it and they damn well smoke it themselves, hypocrites.

The argument around weed is enough to show you how totally fked up humans are on this planet, totally insane, perhaps more should use it!

PS: Alcohol is a much bigger problem for society and we can make, buy, and consume as much as we want! I've never seen a violent dope smoker, have you?

Oh and you don't have to get stoned off your head for it to relieve pain. I've been using it for about 6 years now just a small amount just before bed, let's me sleep in peace which aids my condition greatly and lets me work a full day. I haven't noticed needing more and more and I'm certainly not hooked on the stuff. I can stop it any time I want. Unlike tobacco, another legal drug which is now heading the same way as dope in the criminal department because of do gooder brainless parasites.

Hi there HASBEEN...

HASBEEN you stated in your most recent thread '...go find something that really scares the hell out of you, and fix your pain...'. What you're actually referring to, is the naturally occurring 'adrenalin' when our bodies demand a real 'adrenalin dump' in order for us to respond to an immediate threat, or some instantaneous emergency ?

I must admit it sounds logical, but short of playing 'chicken' with a goods train or similar, it's a bit difficult to arrange a severe shock on demand ? I've heard, some years ago Doctor's would inject adrenalin into children who were suffering a severe Asthma attack ? Apparently it would almost stop the attack immediately, but with some inherent risks I understand, like an increased heartbeat etc., which sounds about right ?

I do recall during my military days, a threat on one's life, causes almost a 'tunnel vision' effect, to the exclusion of everything else, particularly when there's a bit of ordnance flying about ? And there was a complete absence of fear...totally ! Shortly thereafter, shock sets in, and a dash for a clean set of 'jocks' was the first order of the day !

You reckon you're 'burnt out' as a race driver ? You mightn't have the lightening reflexes, or the physical endurance you had, back in your youth ? You'd still have your race cunning and strategy, as good as ever mate, so don't sell yourself short OK !

G'day ONTHEBEACH...

I fully appreciate your point concerning people growing a small amount of Cannabis for their personal own use. And the possibility of that alone, causing crime gangs from profiting from large scale cultivation of the drug. The only problem is, there's always some knucklehead who wants to take it just a step too far, and add a few more bucks to his current unemployment benefits. Enter the local 'heavy', who makes his usual demands, and the rest is easy ?

Hi there RAWMUSTARD...

It's true Cannabis has been demonised by everyone who claim they have specialist knowledge of the drug. Many supporting it's use, and just as many others who seek to continue it's ban ! Where the real truth lies, who'd know really ?

I also agree with you in terms of the number of very famous people who regularly use it. And some even publically admitting to it also. As far as the coppers are concerned, they just do their job, for better or for worse. While ever it's a prohibited substance, the coppers must pounce whenever the drugs are found. As far as coppers confiscating Cannabis (or any drug) from some poor hapless dude, and then appropriating that drug for their own use, well I realise it could happen, but I'd suggest it would be quite a rare event, as the criminal implications would be enormous my friend. Still there's no accounting for the behaviour of some, coppers included.

Your comments apropos alcohol and tobacco are spot on ! While tobacco use is dangerous for one's health, otherwise it only affects the user, and manifestly increases the health Bill, dramatically ! While alcohol is a much more dangerous drug, more dangerous than Cannabis in all it's forms. The only time it was banned in recent times, was in the US back in the twenties, and that proved a dismal failure !

RAWMUSTARD, much of what you say I'd agree with you absolutely. The only way change may be effected is 'standing over' these spineless, out of date, politicians. Until then, we're stuffed unfortunately.

o sung wu, "Enter the local 'heavy', who makes his usual demands, and the rest is easy?"

The federal government and its immigration bureaucrats are adept at importing organised crime and the populations who accept it as their political and social reality/custom. If you were to pick one thing that the federal government does well (sadly so!) it is importing whole families of crime overlords - the whole shebang, the full spectrum of criminal gang diversity. Now the fearful Russian mafia is making its presence felt.

Just to say the obvious. That similar to what is happening in the US and other western democracies, the majority is being very rapidly elbowed out by migrants and through that and the fertility of migrants from some countries, Australians will soon be the majority minority.

So what you are saying is destiny: the present ordered, peaceful suburbs are shrinking and we will have to become accustomed to whole cities like Sydney and Melbourne resembling the worst we see in 'Cops' shows on TV.

And good evening to you ONTHEBEACH...

The Lebanese are a typical example of our government permitting organised criminal elements into our country, and it's too late to do anything about it now ? In fact there are five to seven suburbs in South Western Sydney, that have been completely usurped as self-contained Lebanese communities. Where normal policing methodology is now perceived as essentially redundant ? Therefore a completely new policing practice is needed, to successfully interdict major crime !

In fact most of these areas have changed that much, it's as if the traditional Aussie families who hitherto, occupied many of the homes and Units in these areas, have been supplanted, and are now considered, 'persona non grata', in their own City, and in their own Country ?

Similarly there are other areas not that far away, that have become the preserve of the African refugees and immigrants. Though not quite to the extent of the Lebanese community, still they've nevertheless considered the area as theirs to the exclusion of everyone else ?

Yet our wise political leaders, and their carefully selected group of erudite academic propagandist, are all for telling us, that these groups of new settlers, are assimilating so well into our culture ? If it were true, and there was good evidence that most of these people have done well, have 'value added' something to this nation, and have vainly tried to assimilate into our ways and our culture, then they would indeed be most welcome - trouble is most don't, and that's the root cause of most of theirs and ours problems !

so true O sung su and none of the champions of the policy would dare live within these enclaves again displaying their hypocrisy.