I thought that it might be interesting
just for a change to discuss something other
than politics, terrorism, or multiculturalism.

I would like to suggest that we make up a list
of people that you think influenced this country
- the "movers and shakers," that you'd like to
see acknowledged. They can be writers, poets,
artists, and anyone who you feel made an impact.

And who do you think will be on our list of the
most influencial Australians in years ahead -
and why?

And who do you think will be on our list of the
most influencial Australians in years ahead -
and why?
Foxy,
They're too numerous to list here but those who perform dirty & menial tasks & those who work to simply keep our sad society on it's wobbly wheels. The workers.

I am hopeful an Australian will come up with the final cure for cancer.
It would be wonderful not to have this scourge on our society that causes so much pain and suffering.

I take my hat off to all the unsung heroes....the medical researchers who work long hours and days with often little results.

The travel writer Bill Bryson,
in his book, "Down Under," wrote these words
about Australians:

"The Australian people are immensely likeable -
cheerful, extroverted, quick-witted and
unfailingly obliging. Their cities are safe
and clean and nearly always built on water. They
have a society that is prosperous, well ordered
and instinctinvely egalitarian."

We would expect therefore that the values of our
country would reflect the values of influential
people, after all they are the people who have
influenced those values. For example - if we were
doing people in British History - there would
undoubtedly be kings and queens. If we were doing
the United States, you'd probably find Revolutionary
War heroes and generals from the Civil War era.

On our list I expect we should have pioneers, settlers,
and founders of industries, people who interpret us and
our nation back to ourselves.

The legend of Gallipoli came to us through
a "Sydney Morning Herald" journalist turned war
historian, CEW Bean. The legend of the outback came
to us through the poets Henry Lawson, and Banjo Paterson.
to name just a few.

Writers and poets, as well as artists are important because
they fire our imagination and our emotion.

The term "movers and shakers," comes from the poet
Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy, who wrote:

"We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers,
On whom the pale moon gleams;
Yet we are the movers and shakers,
Of the world for ever, it seems."

We have artists like Sidney Nolan and Albert
Namatjira, Arthur Boyd just to name a few, who
helped us see ourselves and our country in
a new light.

What about future lists?

Well, as Richard Nixon using the quote of Sophocles
stated: " One must wait until the evening to see
how splendid the day has been."

In other words a person's influence can only be
judged at the end of their life - so I expect that
Influential Australians will be those who will stand the
test of time.

Dear Individual and Suse,

Thank You both for your thoughts.

A cure for cancer is something that would
certainly be a miracle - hopefully sooner
rather than later. And there are so many
other problems that we have. We are the
driest continent on earth. The person who
can solve our water problem might also be on
the list. As might the person (or persons) who
can lift our Indigenous people from the margin
to the mainstream.

We are a young country - our greatest achievements are
still in front of us.

There's plenty more room on that list of influential
people in the years that lie ahead.

How do we go about finding real movers & shakers ? The real ones aren't prancing around & ask everyone to admire them, they stay in the background where they can do their thing uninterupted.
The one that get put on pedestals are usually no better than you & I, they're simply more focussed on getting noticed doing their thing. Usually for money & prestige.

Dear Individual,

Surely there must be at least one person that
you could name to put on our hypothetical list
that you feel deserves to be on it?

Just one - (from the past or the present)?

cont'd ...

What about Weary Dunlop or Fred Hollows?

Foxy,
Well, the chap who designed the Black Box flight data recorder & I believe there was another Australian who had something to do with landing approach systems.

Dear Individual,

Thanks for that - excellent choices.

Many lives were changed as a result.

Do Captain Cook and Governor Phillip qualify, technically not Australians but sure did change a lot of lives here. Eddie Koiki Mabo.

Foxy: I would like to suggest that we make up a list of people that you think influenced this country.

Dr. John Bradfield (1867 - 1943) for the Bradfield Scheme. (never followed through with, but would solve a great many problems for outback Australia.

John Flynn for the Flying Doctor Service.

James Harrison for Refrigeration.

Howard Florey for Penicillin.

Mark Lidville for the Pacemaker.

George Kossoff & Dave Robinson for Ultra Sound.

Professor Graeme Clark for the Bionic Ear.

Andrew Dzvrok & Andrea Morello for the Quantum Bit.

Dear Paul,

Yes they certainly do qualify.

Thank You.

Dear Jayb.,

Thank You for your list - and what a great
selection!

What a brilliant Topic FOXY...

One of the most ethical and decent politicians that I know was one Ted MACK, who's only desire was to do the bidding of his constituent's. And NOT become obeisance to party politics, factions, or gaining enormous benefits for himself.

He retired from Federal Politics very shortly before he qualified for a (lifetime) substantial parliamentary pension. Yet this man was of modest means and not in the least wealthy. The likes of Mr Mack we're unlikely to see his kind again, unfortunately !

And finally, 'IN FIRST PLACE' to enlarge upon INDIVIDUAL'S excellent suggestion, something that I support unequivocally. Those many faceless, under appreciated and underpaid individuals, who routinely clean-up all the discarded 'human' filth and detritus, the likes of used hypodermic needles, vomitus, human faeces and urine, that's frequently found in public places. Also in our streets, lanes, alleyways as well as many other places that are opened to and used by the public. More often early on dark mornings, after the wild parties, and other celebratory public events. And during daylight hours after rowdy demonstrations, and other public events !

Without these decent, hard working souls, our cities would amount to nothing more than stinking sewers !

In reply to Individual 14-9-14: I am making a statement regarding your post, not a criticism. As a social scientist I have studied the attitudes of Australians towards a broad range of topics. Included in this list of topics (but by no means holding centre stage)is indigenous Australians. I found your use of the term "lift them up from the margins" telling in a few ways. Firstly it assumes that they are on a lower level of some sort. Secondly it seems to suggest that we/you are able to impart the necessary impetus or attitude that will make this possible, and also by using the term "margin" you give the impression that they are not fully engaged in society, and somehow drift around the perimeter of our society. Each of these descriptors lays blame in one way or another. This language is almost universal in Australia, and is, in my humble opinion a major hurdle for indigenous Aussies to overcome, and a very difficult one to overcome because you and I have to do the hurdling, not them. I hope you take this statement in the spirit in which it is offered, and I would be interested to hear a response (no arguments will be entered into however). F/E

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your comments.
I had never heard of Ted Mack- aand will have
to do a bit of research on him. He sounds
great.

I fully agree with you (and Indy) about those who
do such a good job in cleaning up our cities.
I would add also all the volunteers - who help
out at big and small events. Where would we be
without them indeed.

Dear Foureyes,

Possibly you're reading more into my comments
than was intended. Good heavens, in now
way were my comments meant to degrade any of
our Indiegenous people - and I also did not state
or meant that the person that had a genuine workable
way of lifting our Indigenous people from the margin
to the mainstream - had to be white. It could be
a tribal elder or any Indigenous person. Many people
have tried - many people of goodwill have tried- and
there have been no shortage of resources; this is not
a question of spending. And of course there are many
Indigenous success stories. However, the reality is
that there has been no area where we have had
more ideological experimentation and more failure.
And there will be a place on the list in 2100 for that
person (whoever he/she may be.

Good afternoon to you FOUREYES...

Sorry, but I've not seen your particular epithet previously ? Anyway, welcome. I see you are a Social Scientist well I must say much of what you've stated has confounded me completely ? Are you in touch with what's actually going on within the indigenous community ?Or has much of your research emanated from some previously written text ?

You speak of 'margins' as if they are not as well connected with society as they could be ? Many of the individuals I've had occasion to handle are NOT connected with mainstream society at all, and that is just one of the multitude of problems my friend ?

Foureyes: As a social scientist I have studied the attitudes of Australians towards a broad range of topics.

Social Scientist... or... Navel Gazer... I too am a Social Scientist, unqualified, as in University Schooled, but a people watcher none-the-less. Not being University Trained does have one big advantage. I don't have to follow the Politically Correct/Do Gooder, Fake Standard as set down by the Uni.

The thing about watching Social Scientists is that all people, who are not on their particular wavelength, are wrong/biased/racist & on & on. Which is quite obvious by your post. You say There are no Aboriginals represented on any of the lists. Just why is that? I could mention some Aboriginal people that I would qualify for my list of Aboriginal people but they would be my personal list. One of them dies just recently. Reg Saunders, Buddy Lea & Billy Coolabra, just to mention three. but, you wouldn't know who they were, or what they did or how a lot of people felt about these great men. So putting them on the list would be a waste of time. I personally knew all three.

Foureyes: Firstly it assumes that they are on a lower level of some sort.

NO ONE has suggested that Aboriginal are on a lower level. That is an assumption, influenced by your Politically Correct training environment, & it's WRONG. The list asks for Movers & Shakers not for well known people. Oodgeroo Noonuccal or Cath Walker, or Mum, when I used to go to their place for Tea in the 60's. A great woman, for whom I have a great respect, but not a Mover & Shaker.

Foureyes: I hope you take this statement in the spirit in which it is offered.

Well, no. I feel offended. I am being made to feel, by Social Scientists that, because I do not go along with the PC/Do Gooders (the very people who have caused the mess we are in with Aboriginal People,) that I am somehow the cause of the problem that none of them are on the list.

Margaret Tucker in her autobiograhpy,
"If Everyone Cared," wrote -

"...I am guided always by the story Pastor
Sir Douglas Nicholls told in church one day
about a black man who said, "You can play a
tune of sorts on the white keys of a piano,
you can play some sort of tune on the black
keys; but for perfect harmony, you must use
both." I got the point. It is a terrific one."

I've just watched the ABC's -
"Q and A," program, Monday 15th September 2014.
The panel included Nobel-Prize
winning scientists and other distinguised people in
the field of science. It made me realise the
vital importance of the role that science plays
both in our own country and globally.

I would like to add to the list - the names
of - Peter Doherty -
Immunologist and Nobel Prize winner, Brian Schmidt -
astrophysicist, and Ian Chubb - Australia's Chief
Scientist.

We need people like these for the future of this
country, and we also need to fund scientific research.

It looks like this discussion has now run its
course and I'd like to Thank everyone who
contributed to it.

I look forward to seeing you all on the next
discussion.

Take care.

A little nobody that influenced the world. A distant uncle. A j Nuttal from Ayr.

Invented the "Starting Gates" for racing.

First used at the Burdekin Racing Club in the late 50's. A 6 Gate towed to position by a tractor. A visiting official from Melbourne saw them on Melbourne Cup day & asked if he could take them to Melbourne to try. The rest is history.

My Uncle had a history of inventing things, like the Mould Board Plow & with old man Spelter they had a Helicopter & a Hovercraft that worked, in the 30's.