From where I sit, I see an extremely competent Julie Bishop doing a great job at foreign affairs. This stands out dramatically when she is compared to dills like Evans, Carr & a few others you could name.

This is probably the first time she has had the opportunity to show her quality. That she is so effective so quietly is something it would be good to see others try to emulate.

After the disasters of our flirtation with female premiers, & the total catastrophe of our first as Prime Minister, would it be possible for any lady to again become PM with in a decade or two?

I certainly hope so. Bishop looks like the first lady PM we should have had, & is probably the pick of Canberra at the moment. I wish her luck.

I must be from an alternate universe, I can't see any of what you claim for the lady concerned. So far she's achieved little except make a fool of herself and our nation.
In reality she's nothing more than the Canetoad's token woman and a good little puppet mouthing the party line on command, she wouldn't last a week if she dared to think for herself, the Canetoad does NOT like uppity women, that has been made abundantly clear.

Have to agree Hasbeen it appears she is there on her ability not because she belongs to some grubby faction or union. Quite refreshing after Labours failures and who have only ever resort to the misogyny card to hide incompetence.

G'day Bruce,
Who exactly is the Cane Toad ?
As for making a fool of herself I don't think she'd stand a chance of ever up-staging any Labor pollie. That much proof is in the can for decades to come.
Actually I think the trend presently shows the numbers of morons are lessening so I don't think Labor will be voted in for some time as soon as this Government has overcome some of the labor mess.

Dear Hasbeen,

I get the distinct impression that you would
support the current government and its
ministers - no matter what they said and did.

Julie Bishop is a bit of a worry. Her remarks
on Tamil asylum seekers, on Israeli settlements
on Palestinian Territory, her promotion of ties
with Fiji's Military, her disapproval of Steve
Bracks's appointment as Consul-General to New York,
are just some of the things that
do not sit well or exemplify competency in the
job. And she struggled when faced with her first
international crisis with Indonesia. Her actions seem
to go against the grain of international opinion.
And it does appear that she is simply following the
Party Line in what she does. Which is to be
expected considering that she is the only woman
given such a high ranking position in the Abbott
Government.

Still, I guess its early days - and time will
tell how she performs with more experience on the
job.

As for Julie Bishop as our future PM?

It certainly should be easier for her than it was
for our first female Prime Minister - Julia Gillard.

Julia Gillard had the blowtorch applied right from
the days after the 2010 election. Never in our
country's history has a national leader faced so many
demands and attacks on so many multiple fronts.

Ranging from -

suggestions that - she came to power illegitimately,
(despite the fact that she was elected unopposed by
Parliamentary caucus), to her dress sense, her
hair-styles, shoes, childlessness,
atheism, marital status, and even the sexual
orientation of her partner -
which obscured her government's
achievements.

Hopefully, if there is another female leader further down
the track - be it Julie Bishop or anyone else - they will
not have to face so many demands and attacks on multiple
fronts as our former PM did. However, I somehow doubt
very much whether this will happen anytime soon.

Bruce if she was the creator of the universe a rabid lefty like you would not be able to see it.

It must be painful for you in your lucid moments, if you have any, to realise you have absolutely no one on the left worth feeding.

Foxy you know we wont agree on all the bleeding heart stuff, but you must admit in your inner soul, that Gillard was a disaster. The very worst we have ever had.

For Julie to get past the dreadful legacy Gillard left could only be worse if Gillard ends up in prison, as she should for her part in ripping off unionists so blatantly.

I agree Hazza. Bishop seems to be doing well. Although I’ve got to say that I am surprised that some of the strong statements she has made haven’t come back to bite her. They seem to have all worked in her favour.

But I disagree regarding Carr. He did well. He is extremely knowledgeable in the whole field. Even Rudd, who I think was our worst ever PM didn’t do too badly in foreign affairs. Stephen Smith did very well. Likewise many years back with Gareth Evans.

It seems to be an area of politics in which most people do pretty well, which is surprising, given how difficult it is to say something decisive without being seen to be strongly taking sides and ending up offending some country that we want to have good relations with.

Bishop certainly seems to be a whole lot better at making statements relating to foreign affairs than our foot-in-mouth PM!

I agree Ludwig, I think all our recent Foreign Affairs ministers have been pretty good.
Julie Bishop is doing quite well too.
She speaks well, dresses well and is a credit to the country when she is overseas.

I cringe when our bumbling PM speaks into microphones at overseas events and parliaments. Surely his speech writers and minders should be pointing out the numbers of 'um's', Ah's and Er's he says in every sentence?

She remains the only female in Abbott's front bench, but she outshines the others.
What amuses me is that poor Julia Gillard was pilloried by the Liberal ol ' boys club for being an unmarried, childless, woman in a senior position in what they saw as a man's world.

So is Julie Bishop.
Good luck to her I say.

Indi: The Canetoad:

That notorious feral pest has been spreading, and it's now appeared in Canberra!
Responsible for the destruction of the enviroment, toxic to anyone touching it and a threat to Australia's future, the pest would appear unstoppable, at the moment anyway.
However, there is hope.
Scientists have determined that we have an opportunity rid ourselves of this feral nuisance and it's poisonous companions in one fell swoop, the proposed method being....a Double Dissolution!

Get the hint?
As for Hasn'tbeen, I may espouse Leftish politics a lot of the time but that's mostly because I believe in Democracy, the rule of the masses, NOT the Rule of the Elites so beloved of the Right.
I DO NOT support Labor, they are little different from the Canetoad's Liberals and I happen to agree with you, they have NOTHING to offer the electorate, either as leaders or as supporters of women or their aspirations.
The only area the Canetoad even approaches being sensible is a small part of his illegal immigrant policy, and he's turned that into a highly-suspect and indefensible ham-fisted circus, he's lied, broken his word and concealed the truth at every turn, doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?
I offer you this for some perspective, on both he and his token woman minister.
http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/australia-after-one-year-of-abbott-how-did-it-come-to-this,6865

I get the distinct impression that you would
support the current government and its
ministers - no matter what they said and did.
Foxy,
That's what you do with the ALP ! Just re-read your defense on-the-run posts.

Suse, she dresses well, she can't match Little Johnny Howard in his green and gold trackie dacks, and pink really is not her color.
Who knows Julie could be the next 'Attila the Hen'. As for Tone's 'um's', Ah's and Er's the speech writers put them in purposely Tony isn't a great thinker on his feet, come to think of it, Tony is not a thinker in any position. My vote for the best performer in the Parliament, male, female or otherwise, who is not a Green goes to Labor's Penny Wong, its really Lee Rhiannon.

Suse,

"She speaks well, dresses well and is a credit to the country when she is overseas."

Actually, if you've ever watched her in Question Time, Jules comes across as a thirteen year-old schoolgirl.....you know - the "popular" type who skites around the quadrangle bitching with the other popular girls.

She also can't resist on occasion of lapsing into a "stand-up" comedy routine.....the only problem being that her delivery is rotten - and her material isn't funny.

Personally, I reckon she should accompany Eleventy Joe to his drama class on Tuesday nights...it's stood him in good stead up till now (at least until his crappy budget:)

G'dayBruce,

Don't expect the right-wing OLOers to let you get away with linking to an article by Independent Australia.

The hate it when something is published outside MSM - and will serve it up to you for your temerity in linking to it....regardless of the content

Dear Hasbeen,

It looks like -
we aren't going to agree on our former PM -
who I thought got a raw deal all round.
Mr Abbott's greatest success was in making
our former PM seem illegitimate and obscuring
her government's achievements. It will be
interesting however to see how history judges
Mr Abbott and his government.

I, like Bruce, don't support any political
party, as you know, I vote for policies that
make sense to me. I've voted Liberal in the
past (ages ago admittedly) and recently in
State elections. I'm not drawn to either party
at present - but we'll see what develops in
the future. Time will tell.

As for Julie Bishop? As I stated earlier - we'll
see in time weather she's a follower or a leader - hopefully
she'll be given that chance further down the track.

Dear Individual,

If you want to offer criticism - could you
please at least be more specific and give us
your reasoning on the subject - and help us
understand what it is you are trying to say.
Sweeping statements are meaningless and a
waste of both your time and ours.

Well I’ll be amaaazed!!

Suse supports Julie B. Foxy doesn’t so much. And Poirot condemns her!

I thought these female posters were a tight-knit united little group of groupies who always supported female pollies!

Fascinating!

Bishop is doin alright.

So is Morrison.

Hockey’s not doin so well.

And as for Abbott… he’s givin ol’ Kevvie a real run for his esteemed achievement as Australia’s worst-ever PM!

Bishop as a future PM?

Yep. I reckon that could be right on the cards. But then, if Abbott could get there, anythins possible ( :>/

<<If you want to offer criticism - could you
please at least be more specific and give us
your reasoning on the subject - and help us
understand what it is you are trying to say.>>

Foxy are you referring to the same Individual who posts on this forum?
If you are, OUR Indi makes Harpo Marx sound intelligent. LOL.

If you are, OUR Indi makes Harpo Marx sound intelligent. LOL.
Paul1405,
Well, we've tried to get something intelligent out of you. We've all failed.

I just thought that I'd drop in and wish
all you fathers and grandfathers a
Happy Father's Day today.
Enjoy your day!

Cheers.

Indi: The Canetoad:
G'day Bruce,
fear no longer, both the male & the female were erradicated at the last election. Once the damage they caused is under control things will definitely get better.
Bureaucrats will of course be bleating the usual but it's high time they get pulled down a bit to give the country's economy some breathing space.
Public service bureau rats in general are using up way too many resources the way it is so it'll be a good thing if they had a lick at the canetoad's glands.

Ludwig, <" Suse supports Julie B. Foxy doesn’t so much. And Poirot condemns her!"

Ludwig, unlike all the good ol' boys who stick together and champion all things liberal and right, even when they are wrong, us ladies can differ in our opinions graciously.

As much as I think Julie B. Is doing an ok job, I do agree that Penny Wong is superior in intellect and as a politician.

I think she would not be a contender for PM just yet however, because just imagine how the homophobic, Christian, anti-feminist, good ol' boys, would treat her, given the appalling manner in which they treated Julia Gillard.

Poirot, I must admit to favouring Julie Bishop mainly because she is the only hen amongst the roosters and I think she appears to be holding her own fairly well.

Suse,

"Poirot, I must admit to favouring Julie Bishop mainly because she is the only hen amongst the roosters and I think she appears to be holding her own fairly well."

True...the only other hen who sits in on Cabinet meetings is "Bronnie the Unbiased" (How's that for Speaker independence? - currently 196 Labor chuck-outs to 3 LNP's)

You have to admit though that it's a particularly rancid chook pen : )

Yes Poirot, I am not a fan of the Bishop either, as I feel she is way too biased towards the policies of the Abbott and his merry men ....

Dear Hasbeen,

Perhaps we have a different perspective on competence.

I had always thought of Julie Bishop and Turnbull as the two more capable members of the opposition.

But now that her party is in power I have yet to see any actions by her as foreign minister that could be called competent. I see a lot of bluster and hype but I suspect that is just the result of working for a PM who is all bluster and hype. The only praise I can give is the fact that in her role we have yet to see any degree of identifiable incompetence.

Perhaps you would like to present to us what you consider to be an example of her 'extreme competence'?

SteeleRedux,

"Perhaps you would like to present to us what you consider to be an example of her 'extreme competence'?"

I think you covered it nicely with "...a lot of bluster and hype..."

The only word missing that would make it an even more perfect description is "shrill".

Suseonline, "just imagine how the homophobic, Christian, anti-feminist, good ol' boys"

LOL, forum bait. There is a full moon imminent in the West. ATM, Waxing Gibbous, 96% full.

Ever totted up how many hours, days (weeks!) of a short life wasted over the years picking the same old fights and paying back the Roman Catholic Church for the damage those nuns did to you?

OLO should have an hours and days counter for the amount of time(life) spent(expended) on site.

an example of her 'extreme competence'?
SteeleRedux,
Even at her worst she is still better in contrast, the others have only incompetence.

"I just thought that I'd drop in and wish
all you fathers and grandfathers a
Happy Father's Day today.
Enjoy your day!

Cheers.
Posted by Foxy,"

Well, thank you for that Foxy; I make it on both counts plus being a great-grandfather but only once, so far!!

Hasbeen,

Got to admire your seemingly endless patience, fishing in a swamp where there are so many discarded old buckets with holes in them.

First, remember when "Labor members [were] presented with a choice between the most chaotic and disorganised prima donna Australia has ever seen as Prime Minister and the most incompetent and dysfunctional backstabber that Australia has ever since as a Prime Minister.
And that is what they say about each other!"

If Julie Bishop was in the Labor Party she would be a very, very rare talent indeed. Because Julie Bishop came to politics after a career in private enterprise where she had to produce the goods - which she did - to succeed.

How different is that from the career politicians of Labor, where the only string to bow of so many is student politics, then some union before being catapulted into politics?

Julie Bishop's appointments have always been as a result of her ability and performance. In answer to your original question I'd say yes, she does have the talent to lead and importantly demonstrated record of achievement.

I see that Tony Abbott's speech patten is being used to denigrate him.
That is rather a hit under the belt or and rather discriminatory of
some of you people.
Haven't you detected that he has a speech impediment ?
He tries his best to cover it up and I think he uses the umms for that.

Between Tony Abbott & Julie Bishop they seem to have restored relations with Indonesia.
So if I was a Rudd & Gillard supporter I would be looking elwhere for ammo.

Some of you are pathetic, there is always room to have a shot at
government so why not find some better ammo.

PS. I think Piorot may have passed the Turing test. Need a bit more
evidence yet, score has reached 85. 100 is the pass.

Bazz,

"Haven't you detected that he has a speech impediment ?"

I've listened to him interviewed during his activist uni years - and there was no hint of speech impediment then.

His halting speech issues from his attempts to constantly spin.

He's capable at times of an eloquent flow and only becomes halting (cough,cough) when he's attempting to stall or spin.

"Some of you are pathetic, there is always room to have a shot at
government so why not find some better ammo."

This govt are perfectly capable of exploding themselves to smithereens - we're just keeping up the commentary.

: )

Dear Is Mise,

A great grandfather no less - Congratulations!
That's wonderful!
I trust that you had a lovely Father's Day!
Well done!

Dear Poirot,

Perhaps we are being too critical of the
Abbott Government. We need to give credit
where credit is due:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/09/07/year-tony-credit-where-credit-due-and-theyre-running-lot-credit

Hello there FOXY and HASBEEN...

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts and sentiments for 'Father's Day' and Grand Father's Day. And I must defer to our fellow contributor, IS MISE for attaining that sublime state of 'Great Grand Father', indeed a splendid achievement !

Well dear FOXY, I had a look at the Site you kindly provided us with, reading the lead article therein and having finished, I browsed through the rest of the piece. No doubt it's a very 'left wing' publication which surprised me somewhat, as you're more than capable of enunciating your position, better than most I would've thought ? Without the need to rely on a quote from a such jaundiced source.

G'day HASBEEN, I couldn't agree more, with you summation apropos the performance of Ms Julie BISHOP, she exudes real class, both as a woman and politician in my view. And I also agree that she would perhaps make an excellent Prime Minister sometime in the future.

Concerning the BISHOP name, I had occasion to work quite closely (on inquiries), with Bronwyn BISHIP when I was still working, and she's an absolutely stunning human being, ingrained with class, an abundance of intelligence, with a marvellous personality to boot ! Previously, I was of the opinion she was an arrogant, sybaritic lady, and how very wrong was I ?

o sung wu,

"....and she's an absolutely stunning human being, ingrained with class, an abundance of intelligence, with a marvellous personality to boot !"

What a shame, in that case, that she's taken on the Speaker's position. Her performance (and I've been watching) has been disgraceful in its bias.

196 Labor toss-outs to 3 LNP and that's besides her preempting Points of Order with threats or dismissals - and her complete disregard for "relevance" when govt Ministers are answering.

"196 Labor toss-outs to 3 LNP and that's besides her preempting Points of Order with threats or dismissals"

It is a much smaller number of repeat offenders.

It us the result of Labor's campaign to disrupt the Parliament and target the Speaker. It is very negative and discredits Labor. The Australian taxpayer is far from impressed by the wastage of Parliamentary time. None of them would survive a week in private enterprise.

Good afternoon to you POIROT...

Well, on the other hand it could be quite conceivable there may be no bias at all with her adjudications ? It's well known that Labor can be quite disruptive and boisterous when in the House. With respect, one only needs to examine their individual vocational antecedents to see that many have or had strong Trade Union affiliations, for an explanation. Moreover, some of the larger Unions are well known for their rough and tumble styles of administrations, which can be very easily extrapolated into federal Parliament.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Why is it that whenever a critical opinion is
quoted of the current government or any of its
ministers - it is immediately denigrated and
terms like "jaundiced views" appear?

Whereas criticisms of Labor, and their ministers,
including those of our former PM Julia Gillard
seem to be quite acceptable by the same people.

That seems to me somewhat hypocritical - wouldn't
you agree? Double standards, so to speak.

I would have thought that those who so greatly advocate
the freedom of speech - would be more than willing to
allow for views that may disagree with their own.

I've lost count of the number of times that people have
gone against my quoting from sites such as "New Matilda,"
and "Independent Australia," (despite the content)
and accusations of bias have been the norm.
Yet those same people will themselves
quote from sites such as "The Australian," and
"The Daily Telegraph," and think they're perfectly
acceptable and fair.

I guess it just goes to show - it all depends on which
side of politics one is on, lets ignore the content,
and only accept what's acceptable to us. What agrees
with our own opinion.

Well, with that in mind -

Here's another "jaundiced view" it's taken from the
Telegraph in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10143834/Julia-Gillard-ousted-by-sexism-Achievement-does-not-equal-respect-if-youre-a-woman.html

Bishop is Abbott's puppet. She does what she's told, goes where she's told and speaks the words that she's told.

"Well, on the other hand it could be quite conceivable there may be no bias at all with her adjudications ? It's well known that Labor can be quite disruptive and boisterous when in the House....."

Lol!...naughty Labor Ministers.

Have you watched the magnificent Bronnie in action?

Just as well she's not biased - imagine how many she'd have tossed out if that were the case!

.....

Mollieme

"Bishop is Abbott's puppet. She does what she's told, goes where she's told and speaks the words that she's told."

Well, actually, it appears she has orders from on high to do "a good job".

But it's Chrissy Pyne who leaps to his feet if she's a tad tardy in her actions...he's always on hand to pull her into line if she misses a beat with her bias.

B.Bishop would have to rate as the worst Speaker in living memory, I'm no Parliamentary Historian so I can't say if she's the worst since Federation, but that wouldn't surprise me in the least.
The role of Speaker is supposed to be impartial, it's as simple as that, and that lickspittle woman has turned our national parliament into a schoolyard with the bullies in charge, the situation is pathetic to say the least.
One is inclined to join with Olden Henry of ill-repute and cry..
.... "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?

I have been doing research regarding Istikhara Prayer/Dua myself for quite a while and my findings are that it’s not better. Please suggest me an authentic source of guidance. Your suggestions will be highly appreciated!!

Good evening to everyone...

Well, you can only call it as you see it ? When I needed to work with Ms Bronwyn BISHOP (a rather sensitive inquiry I might add) I could only describe her as being superb and completely co-operative in every way ! And yes FOXY, I suppose I'm only displaying my own jaundiced view by saying this.

And POIROT you must admit Labor are by far the most disruptive and boisterous of either of the two major parties ? Accordingly, it does become necessary for the Speaker to curb their behaviour, and if she's unable to do so, she sends them packing. Imagine if she didn't, she'd be accused of being weak, unable to control the House, therefore unable to fulfil her role as Speaker ?

I guess, FOXY and POIROT it's all a matter of perception. In my opinion the LNP are doing OK ! However, I realise both of you would (I'd imagine) vehemently and ardently disagree with me ? You would most fervently remind me of all the promises Mr Abbott and the LNP has broken. Most of what you would assert would be true.

But LNP supporters would tend to look beyond the broken promise and ask why, what is his intent in breaking those promises ? And as they've claimed ad nauseam, it's a bold attempt to retire our national debt, a debt incurred by the Labor Party. Perhaps Labor incurred that debt for the most honourable of reasons ? That is, to insulate Australia from the worst of the GFC. And most of the worlds top economists would praise Labor for their foresight and doing so well and being so successful. Nevertheless that debt, like all debts, must be repaid.

I look forward to Julie Bishop as Australia's first competent female prime minister.

Shadow, I've waited a while, but you have finally posted something which gives me a real belly laugh.

<<I look forward to Julie Bishop as Australia's first competent female prime minister.>>

A bit like looking forward to getting a dose of "salmonella" is it not! But one redeeming feature is since we can't have two PM's the Mad Monk would be gone! ROLMAO.

SM,

"I look forward to Julie Bishop as Australia's first competent female prime minister."

Lol!...and when is this rare and exalting event likely to unfold?

I'm sure she'd make an average Opposition Leader if they so choose after the 2016 election....

'
I'm sure she'd make an average Opposition Leader if they so choose after the 2016 election.... '

as someone who always defended Gillard and claimed Abbott was unelectable I would of thought you would of given up your dud predictions by now Poirot. Your abbottphobia stops you from seeing with any sort of logic.

runner,

"as someone who always defended Gillard and claimed Abbott was unelectable I would of thought you would of given up your dud predictions by now Poirot. Your abbottphobia stops you from seeing with any sort of logic."

Nice try...but of course if you actually checked the record you'd find that I did not "always defend Gillard"...and can you produce the quote(s) where I claimed. that "Abbott was unelectable"? (notwithstanding that a lying slogan-dribbling pollie of dubious integrity "should" have been unelectable:)

(You should see speech writer about remedying your abbottottottottphobia fixation)

Nice try...but of course if you actually checked the record you'd find that I did not "always defend Gillard"..

Oh someone else must have been posting using your name for the last 5 years Poirot.

"Oh someone else must have been posting using your name for the last 5 years Poirot."

Produce the goods, runner.

You can't...so you just go on your merry way spitting out whatever suits your argument.

"No Substance" would be a good replacement name for you on OLO..if you ever think of changing it from "runner"

'I'm not pushing for Turnbull at this stage of the game, individual.
As it stands , Abbott may yet snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.'

short memory Poirot maybe your surname is Lawrence.

Dear O Sung Wu,

I don't doubt that the lady you met - Bronwyn Bishop
was totally different from the woman we see as
Speaker in Parliament. Privately, she may well be
charming but as Speaker - she is definitely the most
biased and should not be tolerated. One only has to
watch "Question Time" in Parliament to see her
blatantly obvious bias - and that is something for which
there is no excuse and demeans the entire
parliamentary process.

As for Mr Abbott's and his government's performance thus
far - it has not been great as the country-wide deomonstrations
have indicated and the severe drop in the polls show.
People are simply not happy. We have to remember that Mr
Abbott did not win the election - Labor lost. Nobody wanted
Mr Abbott, but they wanted Labor even less.

As David Marr pointed out in the "Quarterly Essay,"
"Political Animal: The Making of Tony Abbott," -
"Australia doesn't want Tony Abbott. We never have. When
pollsters rang to ask who we wanted to take over from John
Howard or Brendan Nelson or Malcolm Turnbull we put Abbott
way down the list, usually at the bottom. As the years went by
and the number of Liberal contenders dwindled, we always wanted
someone else. Peter Costello even after he gave up the
leadership without a fight; Malcolm Turnbull even after the
climate sceptics brought him undone; or Joe Hockey the
untried hulk from morning television."

"We never wanted the man the Liberals gave us in December 2009.
Abbott was their pick, not ours. And the party was almost as
stunned as the nation."

"God almighty," one of the Liberals cried in the party room that
day. "What have we done?"

Good afternoon to you FOXY...

As always, it's your adroit research capacity that permits you to launch a solid argument whenever you need to support your views and your opinions. Whereas I, haven't got the slightest idea of the complicated machinations of how party politics work.

My views are and always have been conservative, I've never voted for Labor in my life. Yet in my memory (notwithstanding Mr Whitlam's dismissal, in Nov 1975) I've never known an Australian PM to be so scorned, so mocked or so vilified as Tony ABBOTT ?

Seemingly, some of that derision has emanated from those few,'faceless' but quisling members, from Mr ABBOTT'S own side of politics, which is particularly problematic and confounding ?

Many claim he's just straight out dumb ? How can that be, he's a Rhodes scholar. I will admit many of my LNP friends would prefer Malcolm TURNBULL as Prime Minister. Whereas, my own perception of Mr TURNBULL (there's that word 'perception' again), resonates strongly with that of deceit, treacherousness, and duplicitous. Where with Mr ABBOTT, what you see, is what you get. A gangling, awkward, sort of bloke, that's pretty well devoid of any chicanery and guile ?

FOXY there's a lesson I should learn, and learn rather quickly I would've thought. I realise I know next to nothing about politics per se, other than I don't trust any of 'em. A somewhat puerile admission to make, I'm sure you'll agree. It's for this reason, I should immediately refrain from any further commentary on the subject politics, lest I make an even bigger fool of myself than I have already ?

Foxy,

Is this the David Marr you cherry-picked your quote from?

http://pickeringpost.com/story/david-marr-a-hit-in-gay-community-only/503

Obviously both you and Pickering are committed to your views, and you are both welcome to them, predictable as you both can be. The remainder of the population though prefers some independence and balance.

o sung wu,

"Many claim he's just straight out dumb ? How can that be, he's a Rhodes scholar...."

I don't think he's "dumb" per se. He's obviously reasonably intelligent....as a scholar he's merely so-so...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/25/tony-abbott-just-about-makes-grade-as-rhodes-scholar

"His exam papers have been graded by Oxford’s time-honoured system based on the Greek alphabet. To get a first, you need some alphas (maybe two or more). Abbott hasn’t any. In fact the mark on his first paper, general philosophy from Descartes to present day, starts with the dreaded gamma – in other words, a third.

It will come as a surprise to few observers of the Australian political scene that Abbott’s strong suit was not philosophy. He gets a very low second for his moral and political philosophy exam, but good 2:1s for his political institutions, theory of politics and politics of developing countries papers."

Remembering also, that President George W. Bush, who "was" dumb (IMO) and who could barely string a sentence together without a gaffe, was the proud possessor of a degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard.

Mr Abbott is merely a person who is useful to his masters. Mr Abbott doesn't care what he says to please them. Mr Abbott will lie to your face and then tell you he is keeping his commitments....even when it is clear that he has lied.

It takes special kind of integrity-free personality to do that and not feel a pang of guilt.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for your comments.

They are greatly appreciated as is your honesty
and openess. I for one will always want to hear
your opinions on all issues. I firmly believe that
hearing other well reasoned opinions
broadens the discussion and
gives a different perspective. Which is a good
thing. So please keep on sharing your views.
They are appreciated.

otb,

I did not "cherry pick" David Marr's comments.
They are taken from the very first chapter
of Marr's article in The Quarterly Essay -
"Political Animal: The Making of Tony Abbott."
The Quarterly Essay presents significant
contributions to the general debate. Each issue
contains a single essay written at a length of
about 25,000 words. It aims to present the
widest range of political, intellectual and
cultural opinion.

And of course -

David Marr's reputation as an author is very
well known and respected.
Mr Abbott gave him a great deal of
his time when Marr interviewed him for this
essay.

Larry Pickering is of course - a totally different story.
As the link listed below clearly shows -

"Larry Pickering - commonly known as a cartoonist -
but also an inveterate liar, a bankrupt conman,
with a seedy history of fleecing the gullible of
millions of dollars, while not paying his own bills..."

"With various failed business ventures and numerous
personal relationships of equal standard...For
decades he has plied a grubby trade behind sundry
stooges ...assisted by the odd sharp lawyer and
hapless corporate and consumer regulators.
He is not a nice man!"

http://www.smh.com.au/business/larry-pickering-the-conman-stalking-gillard-20120820-24hxi.html

Beach, is that the same Larry Pickering who is commonly known as a cartoonist, but he's also an inveterate liar, a bankrupt conman with a seedy history of fleecing the gullible of millions of dollars while not paying his own bills. A serial bankrupt with a millionaire's lifestyle. The runner of a punting SCAM.

With various failed business ventures and numerous personal relationships of equal standard, for decades Pickering has plied a grubby trade behind sundry stooges and partners, assisted by the odd sharp lawyer and hapless corporate and consumer regulators. He is not a nice man.

Beach you can sure pick em. After supporting Jim Saleam, Pickering would be considered positively honest in your book!

Dear Paul,

And otb speaks about wanting views that are
"independent" and "balanced."

This from a man who sees things in terms of
labels. Aka, - Fabians, Aka - Progressives, Aka -
Socialists, Aka - Watermelon Greens, Aka - Emily
Listers, and the list goes on.

This points to "independence"
and "balanced" thought in his mind
and clearly a political career with the Liberal Party.

Foxy, what a laugh as OTB tries to present himself as the forums moderate voice of reason, he does such a pathetic job at it. So often his extreme ultra right views come to the fore. He can't help himself. When I seen Pickering Post in his link, I thought this must be a gee up, no one in their extreme right mind would try and use Pickering as a back up!
Maybe Beach is Pickering.
I recall Pickering didn't have much to say when 'A Current Affair' was chasing him down the street a few years back over a betting scam he was running.

Foxy,

You easily demonstrate your bias and partisanship by omitting this detail on Pickering (from the site linked to),

Pickering,
"Four-time Walkley Award winning political commentator and Churchill Fellow"

The adds that he "returned to the fray over concern that news sources are being threatened by the Gillard Government". That definitely wouldn't make Larry Pickering your choice, and most would admit that.

Of course you cherry-pick and most commonly from those Left 'independent' sites that so many have called flakey and unreliable. Of course you choose words from David Marr because your opinion always comes first and you Google relentlessly to find something, anything to match your bias.

Where you don't find anything you simply post a link to something irrelevant to the thread but suiting your prejudice. Or you regurgitate something long and tedious you have posted repeatedly word for word over the years and notwithstanding how many times other posters have corrected you for your assessments and factual correctness.

Pickering Four-time Walkley Award winning political commentator, Churchill Fellow and BETTING SCAM OPERATOR! Once a crook, always a crook!
Good posts Foxy keep em' up!

Beach are you Pickering? if not, why not, you fit the mold.

Paul1405. "After supporting Jim Saleam"

That is a complete fabrication and well you know it. Many here have confronted you for similar wrong and offensive personal remarks concerning them.

You did say you were an unsuccessful local government candidate for the NSW Greens. So you don't manage to fool the public either.

Good evening to you POIROT...

I had no idea the public could access an individual's grades at Oxford ? There's much for me to learn from the world of academia, and the formal structure of a university education.

Your assertion that Mr ABBOTT has this propensity to equivocate about anything that his political master's may require of him. Or alternatively, that which may gain him some specific benefit; and in the mere 'blink of an eye' completely repudiate it; I suppose is nothing really new ? Considering that particular forte is well and truly within the purview of ALL politicians !

That old saying POIROT, '...you can fool some of the people some of the time...' well you know the rest of it I'm sure ? If he really is such a 'lame duck' as many would have us believe, why on earth hasn't the LNP had him replaced ? Further, his political strategy must be pretty good, considering the holy mess he made of Labor, post Mr RUDD'S election as PM. And his expertise in capitalising upon Labor's protracted disunity, was a masterful stroke of brilliance too, I would have thought ?

Despite everything they throw at him, he remains very much a resilient, combative Prime Minister. Just the sort of bloke you'd want at the helm, whenever there's a chance we again may be confronted with a renewed wave of Islamic terrorism !

Thank you POIROT for taking the time to refute much of what I had previously asserted herein. I thoroughly enjoy our occasional periods of jousting.

o sung wu,

"...Further, his political strategy must be pretty good, considering the holy mess he made of Labor, post Mr RUDD'S election as PM. And his expertise in capitalising upon Labor's protracted disunity, was a masterful stroke of brilliance too, I would have thought ?

Ahem....his "masterful stroke of brilliance" was unfortunately resting on hot air and lies - as the electorate has discovereed since the election.

They don't particularly embrace being "duped" on such a scale.

Scroll down and have a peek at this poll - under the heading " How do you rate Tony Abbott’s first year as Prime Minister?"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/thedrum/polls/

"Overall Bad" appears to have a percentage of 91%. Even if you factor in the ABC audience - that's quite dismal for a guy prone too "masterful strokes of brilliance"

"Despite everything they throw at him, he remains very much a resilient, combative Prime Minister. Just the sort of bloke you'd want at the helm, whenever there's a chance we again may be confronted with a renewed wave of Islamic terrorism !"

Yes - and he's just the "sort of bloke" who would pull out the "be alarmed and stay alarmed" theme to prop up his flagging polls.

This is the person Beach relies upon to 'make his case' Larry Pickering, right winger with extremest views. plus

But new evidence suggests Mr Pickering was using secret offshore companies incorporated in the British Virgin Islands and managed in Hong Kong to channel funds generated by the software (bogus horse racing betting scam) scheme.
At the time of publishing this in 'The Age' Pickering had 11 children to five women and lived in a waterside mansion on the Gold Coast.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/pickering-faces-new-evidence-over-failed-scheme-20130615-2ob7f.html

Beach you would be better off quoting the political opinions of Eddie Obeid than Larry Pickering. Like "Eddie said there are crooks in politics." It would carry more weight.

Beach in reply to your post above; The pot calling the kettle black.

"I will take a spell.
But highlight it was OTB not me or Foxy who took this to the public.
In his post here and a long list of other taunting posts.
And would ask, what if all posters behaved like that here.
Using half truth and lies to taunt other posters.
I highlight again with out some fences, some reason taunting is not seen as OK we all suffer."

Posted by Belly, 5/3/2014. A very long time and respected poster on OLO. Belly decided to take his bat and go home after much taunting from a relative newcomer, YOU! I don't have a bat, so I wont be going home, regardless of what you post.

Paul1405,

You are failed by your apparent poor comprehension. I was not relying on Pickering to make any case for me at all, but simply drawing an obvious comparison where partisans such as yourself cherry-pick whom and what to quote.

BTT

<<partisans such as yourself (paul1405) cherry-pick whom and what to quote. Really Beach, if you had cared to check you would see the majority of the links I provided on this forum are from publications such as The SMH, a newspaper I purchase daily. My last one about Pickering was from The Age, I sometimes provide links to the ABC and occasionally even to Murdoch's publications. From your extreme position I can see how you may well view those as commie pinko publications.
To use Pickering to add so called balance is ridiculous. Foxy in my view is one of the more moderate posters on this forum. And her post about Abbott and her use of David Marr as a source was balanced. Now when you Google "David Marr" I;m sure 'Pickering Post' didn't top the list, you could have used something a bit more reputable.

Paul1405,

You have gone off somewhere up a blind gully. All I can suggest is that you take the time read my post and comprehend what it is saying. Here it is to make it easy for you,

<Foxy,

Is this the David Marr you cherry-picked your quote from?

http://pickeringpost.com/story/david-marr-a-hit-in-gay-community-only/503

Obviously both you and Pickering are committed to your views, and you are both welcome to them, predictable as you both can be. The remainder of the population though prefers some independence and balance.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 9 September 2014 4:41:57 PM>
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6554&page=9

BTT

Being "good" at dirty PARTY infighting and bullying does NOT make one a good leader, for a party OR a nation, ESPECIALLY for a nation.
The Canetoad has been put to the test, and he's fallen at nearly every hurdle so far.
The ONLY reason he has power is because he used his lies and bullying to destabilise the serving government, with NO thought for the common weal, he was after POWER, and he got it. Now, when we desperately need a leader with vision and ethics we get more lies and bullying instead, and we are becoming the laughing stock of the world thereby.
Welcome to the Two-Party system, where the getting of power is the be-all and end-all, using that power is only seen as a means to self-enrichment and any thoughts of the National Good are treated with derision.

otb,

You have attacked me and others (women especially)
so many times on this
forum that I've lost count. Belly asked you to stop -
and ended up leaving because of you. Other posters
have told you to lay off - and you ignore them.
So for you to claim any sort of defense - is simply
not credible.

As for your using Mr Pickering - you
can't use a source and then try to deny the fact that
you did it only as a "comparison."
Especially when the differences between David Marr
and Larry Pickering are like chalk and cheese.

Larry Pickering's
reputation is beyond the pale - and comparing him with
David Marr is simply absurd. David Marr is the author
of "Patrick White: A Life," "Panic: The High Price of
Heaven," "Dark Victory," and the Walkley Award-winning
Quarterly Essay - "Power Trip: The Political Journey of
Kevin Rudd."

David Marr has written for the Sydney Morning Herald,
The Age, the Monthly, been editor of the National Times,
a reporter for Four Corners, and presenter of ABC TV's
Media Watch. His reputation unlike that of Mr Pickering,
is beyond reproach.

You can twist and turn things as much as you want - those
are typical "Beachisms," and we fully understand that
you never really want to offend anyone.
You just feel an obligation.

Foxy, using OTB logic I hate caulk, and I hate cheese, add the two together and you get chocolate cake, yummy! LOL

Dear Paul,

Posters can post whatever bigoted or extreme
views they like but they shouldn't complain
if other people then condemn their viewpoint
or refuse to associate with them.

Mr Pickering
is well known for his right-wing views. He
portrayed our former PM Julia Gillard as a
dildo-wielding rapist in a cartoon on his website.
The man was popular in the 1970s and has faded from
view in recent years - hitting the headlines -
courtesy of fraud.

But enough said. Let's not discuss otb - any further.
That's giving him too much credit. Best ignored - totally.
We haven't run out of well reasoned, intelligent
posters - yet.

Foxy,

It is said that the cow with the dirtiest tail bellows the loudest, and the longest too it would seem.

What you haven't refuted is that you do cherry-pick your quotes. You are a partisan, in denial as usual but still prejudiced nonetheless.

Most people don't mind if a person has leanings one way or the other, but in your case you never concede that any 'team' but your own, Labor, has any claims to the government benches at all.

I am non-aligned and yes, I do get some amusement from the Party soldiers who uncritically repeat anything and everything their 'team' puts out. Honestly, as if it matters on this site (or any other). It is not as though you will be influencing the result of the next election.

You do get rather bent out of shape wherever anyone questions your opinions and disagrees with you though.

'afternoon to you POIROT...

As I said to FOXY, I'm a real novice when it comes to the workings of politics, therefore any attempt I may make to defend either political party would at best, be feeble, at worst...well you've seen my worst attempts ad nauseam. I guess I could try to argue with bombast and arrogance, but that would fool nobody, so I should desist from entering into anything to do with politics and retreat back to 'basket weaving' or some other solo pursuit.

In closing, the one irrefutable fact that cannot be rebutted; ALL politicians lie. The real question is, for what purpose do they lie ?

o sung wu,

"....so I should desist from entering into anything to do with politics and retreat back to 'basket weaving' or some other solo pursuit."

Why?

We're having a discussion...I put my side and you put yours - as in debate.

"In closing, the one irrefutable fact that cannot be rebutted; ALL politicians lie. The real question is, for what purpose do they lie ?"

All politicians don't dupe the electorate wholesale.

There is almost no resemblance between the Abbott govt's real agenda, unveiled very soon after the election, and the conniving mendacious spiel they spun in the lead up to it.

I'm a fiscal conservative. Rudd.

There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead. Gillard.

Poirot: 'It takes special kind of integrity-free personality to do that and not feel a pang of guilt'. That's the best line in this whole thread. I'm going to steal it I'm afraid and use it. I'll vaguely attribute the quote to you though.....

Foxy, I don't know how you remain so polite and how you resist miroring some of the language back. Whenever I've posted something with a barb I feel a tad guilty and think "Foxy wouldn't have said it that way".

And on this forum there are a few trolls. I'm working on my determination not to respond to them as they actually do not add anything. Can't even articulate a contrary view and why that might be better.

Julie Bishop and Malcolm Turnbull are the only liberals on the front bench with any level of competence and honesty. As much as honesty seems to be possible to get to a certain level. Having worked outside of politics seems to help. Like Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd, who also had careers outside of politics. Rudd, unfortunately has major communication problems, which does not work in politics. Politics in a democracy is all about negotiation.

I voted for Howard, way back when, but when I saw his determination to hang on at any cost and his decision to support Bush in invading Iraq, rather than seek other avenues, he lost it for me. I put the blame squarely at Howard's feet for the lack of talent in the Liberal party and the loss of articulate voices.

History will show that Julia Gillard might not have had the charisma some expect, she was able to pass lot of legislation working with a hung parliament. She was able to negotiate. Abbott has got a majority and total disarray rules. He is not able to negotiate

Dear Yvonne,

Thanks for your kind words.

I stand by my posting record. It speaks
for itself. Let those who criticise me -
stand by their posting records, and let
them speak for them. I'll match mine
with theirs any day.

As for otb's cow tail references -
Reminds me of the following joke:

A man staggers into the emergency room of a
hospital with a concussion, multiple buises, and
a five iron golf stick wrapped around his neck.

Naturally the doctor asks him what happened.

"Well it was like this," the man replies.
"I was having a quiet round of golf with my wife
when at a difficult hole we both sliced our balls
into a pasture of cows. We went to look for the
balls and while I was scrounging around I noticed
that one of the cows had something stuck in its
rear end."

"I walked over and lifted up the tail and sure
enough there was a golf ball with my wife's
monograph on it stuck right in the middle of the
cow's butt. That's when I made my mistake."

"What did you do?" asked the doctor.

"Well, I lifted the tail, pointed and yelled to my
wife, - 'Hey, this looks like yours!"

otb,

"What you haven't refuted is that you do cherry-pick your quotes. You are a partisan, in denial as usual but still prejudiced nonetheless."

What's the big deal?

We all "cherry pick" our quotes - and our links.

We use quotes to back up our argument. It's a time-honoured procedure for backing up our contentions.

Why single out Foxy....when it's something many of us employ to add impetus to our posts?

Dear Poirot,

Lets all give a big round of applause
to otb.
Lets all pat him on the back.

Just goes to show how insignificant he feels

Awesome gameplaying, go for it!

However none of that dispels what I wrote in my earlier post.

Foxy I was going to take your advise and leave off about our friend from the ultra right. But seeing this laughable comment I feel i must respond;

<<I am non-aligned and yes, I do get some amusement from the Party soldiers who uncritically repeat anything and everything their 'team' puts out>>

onthebeach; That is you to a tee. I'll give it to you that you do display a degree of intelligence a cut above, in fact several cuts above, the intellect of the usual ravers from your end of the political spectrum. But you are not clever enough to completely disguise the ultra right bias you dress up as balanced comment and display on the forum for all to see.
To para phrase you I get some amusement from you in the way you attempt to attack others from that extreme right perch of yours, and all awhile proclaiming balance and even handiness. Pull the other leg. Just take one look at your constant attacks on the perceived enemy, The Greens, or maybe they do not deserve your version of even handed balance.

Dear Paul,

I realize that at times it is difficult not to
respond. I fall for it myself. However, by
responding we are simply wasting our time.

And, by responding we are allowing him to
continue ranting and thereby contaminating our
entire discussion. I wish that there was a "block"
button that I could press on my posts - but there
isn't. Ignoring is the only option that's left.
I intend to give it another try. Wish me luck.

Good Luck Foxy.
I've had good luck/good news already today my partner rang me from work in a panic, crying, she thought she had lost her sacred 'Pounamu' (greenstone carving) from around her neck, a gift which I gave her some years ago from Aotearoa, which had been blessed in the Maori way by her brother-in-law, a minister, irreplaceable, fortunately everyone stopped work and searched for it, was found and all is now well. She wears the thing every day of her life, can't be without it. Wow that was lucky. I'll send in a gift for them all tomorrow, a cake for morning tea..

Dear Paul,

I'm so glad that it was found - and all is well
again.

I have a picture that I carry in my wallet of
"Our Lady of Vilnius," the miraculous painting
that hangs in the "Gate of Dawn Chapel."
(Ausros Vartai). It was given to me after a friend's
trip to Lithuania - years ago.
I did lose it once - and panicked. But it also
was later found - all's well that ends well.

Aaand the NSW Liberals, to which Herr Fuhrer Abbott pledges allegiance, have been an exemplary lot haven't they ?

I always am amused by the waffle that the left whingers think passes at wit, repeating the same drivel against each right of center pollie, frequently punctuated with flights of fantasy or outright lies.

The reality is more what those that count think. Obama and the presidents of Indonesia, China, Korea, Holland etc are all full of praise for JB and TA where the relationships are stronger than, whereas Rudd, Carr and other labor airheads were the subject of ridicule.

SM,

"I always am amused by the waffle that the left whingers think passes at wit, repeating the same drivel against each right of center pollie, frequently punctuated with flights of fantasy or outright lies."

Now there's a classic!

Perhaps the contributors to this thread would like to indulge in a little of what Shadow Minister posts - and presumabably - believes is "true wit".

Here's an excerpt from another thread:

"You still haven't got to grip with the depth and hypocrisy of GREENS CORRUPTION.

You have Back handed Brandt,
Rip off Rhiannon,
Mendacious Milne,
Shifty Sarah HY,
Lying Ludlam,
Slippery Whish Wilson,

A complete bunch of double dealing phoneys."

and

"Just for you, if you haven't enough spittle on your monitor.

You have Back handed Brandt,
Rip off Rhiannon,
Mendacious Milne,
Shifty Sarah HY,
Lying Ludlam,
Slippery Whish Wilson,

A complete bunch of double dealing phoneys."

and

"A sorry rogues gallery of GREENS CORRUPTION.

Back handed Brandt,
Rip off Rhiannon,
Mendacious Milne,
Shifty Sarah HY,
Lying Ludlam,
Slippery Whish Wilson, and now
Pickpocket Parker."

and

"Back handed Brandt,
Rip off Rhiannon,
Mendacious, let's call everyone terrorists Milne,
Shifty Sarah HY,
Lying Ludlam,
ISIS are misunderstood Whish Wilson, and now
Pickpocket Parker.

A sorry rogues gallery of GREENS CORRUPTION."

........

Such witty dribble posted ad nauseam in the other thread.

You get my drift.

With "wit" like that, SM has every reason to chide fellow posters.

Lol!

Honk Honk!

Parrot,

Thanks for reminding us how to bring a troll to heel. You just repeat everything he says against him.

P.S. as you seem to be stalking me with a good finger wagging, but ignoring the troll, I assume by the way you are brown nosing him that agree with left whinge trolls but hate seeing them skewered.

SM,

I was on this thread before, and dropped back to see how it was toodling.

And I couldn't go past you deriding the "wit" of others - when your own is so...er...disappointing.

Parrot,

As I was not trying to be amusing or witty, simply reflecting the troll's school yard taunts back at his holy cows, and to flush out insipid one eyed school marms.

Et voila there you are!

<<As I was not trying to be amusing or witty,>> Being a typical dry conservative, I can tell you Shadow, you are not known for being amusing or witty. Once confronted with the stark reality of Liberal Party corruption, the poor little tyke was struck by the insidious"Stunned Mullet Disease." The overwhelming level of corruption in his party has so devastated poor Shadow, his posts are now completely gar gar on the subject, and unfortunately the lad is in the advanced stages of this most debilitating disease, for which there is no known cure, for a hard nosed conservative so infected. The classic symptom of Stunned Mullet Disease is inept posting of repetitious dribble on a public forum, unfortunately the poor little tyke exhibits such a symptom. Shadow, the only treatment I can recommend is daily reading of 'Green Left' and hopefully in a year or three you will make a recovery of sorts and find real compassion for your fellow man. Cheers, and please keep well.

Paul,

A little rich coming from you who routinely trots out the same old mind numbingly boring drivel. I suppose it is because of the RAMPANT GREENS CORRUPTION and general raving looney incompetence of the greens that you need to lash out against anyone that is vaguely competent.

Just to remind you again:

"Just for you, if you haven't enough spittle on your monitor.

You have Back handed Brandt,
Rip off Rhiannon,
Mendacious Milne,
Shifty Sarah HY,
Lying Ludlam,
Slippery Whish Wilson,

A complete bunch of double dealing phoneys."

Shadow, you are proving to be a most difficult patient, and I fear without some form of immedidate treatment you may become completely comatose, quicker than boozy Barry can say "I can't recall" down at the ICAC. I strongly suggest a thrower read of the following link is in order for us to try and attempt regain your partial sanity.

https://www.greenleft.org.au/

Paul,

I am not prepared to drink enough to believe the greens make sense. Perhaps you need Syph Sarah to roll you a big one and tell you that 1200 asylum seekers died a beautiful death.