Boaz, I have to confess that I had badly underestimated your sense of humour, and your propensity for subtle mischief.

>>Its a great opportunity for John Howard to demonstrate his grasp of history<<

John Howard's grasp of history is very similar to that of my father. Tightly linked to a very personal view of "right and wrong", it rejects anything it finds disturbing, and looks for the path of least resistance at every possible opportunity. This is illustrated by his (Howard's) unthinking acceptance of what Bush and Blair told him about Iraq; "white bread" history, untrammeled by any need for analysis or comprehension.

>>how that crime against humanity (by the Romans and the Muslims) is now being wonderfully reversed by the resilient and determined children of Israel... the incredible restraint of the Israelis who have not yet elected to re-claim their God given land from the Red sea to the River Euphrates.<<

ROTFLMAO

But I did puzzle over the last sentence for a while to work out whether you were still being side-splittingly humorous, or whether you had suddenly turned serious. It deals with a serious issue, so I need to be reassured that your irony button was fully depressed.

>>the Bedoin are just one of 1000s of traditional tribes who's lifestyle is incompatable with modern life. The nomadic Punan and Penan of Sarawak have already discovered this and are settling in permanent villages. Tragic, but reality.<<

Please explain. I am genuinely puzzled.

"re-claim their God given land from the Red sea to the River Euphrates"

Boazy,

I've been to Israel and apart from the extremist Zionists most Israelis do NOT believe that Israel has a god given right to conquer Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia as you seem to think. And they'd tell you if God wanted them to then it would have been done a long time ago. If it's a god given right why is Israel trying to get out of Gaza and why did the war in Lebanon go so badly. Most Israelis and Palestinians are sick of the violence and would like to get rid of the extremists on both sides. I think statements like yours are immoral do not help the cause of the Israelis. I think most of the Jewish people who visit this site and want to see peace in the region would probably prefer if statements like yours which attempt to glorify violence and conquest were kept to yourself. For someone who claims to follow the Prince of Peace many of your posts seem to have a love of warfare and killing.

Don't bother reply to this post. I won't read your hate filled angry reply.

sganot, it's not this particular land deal that is the problem, although howard's participation got my attention.

once you grasp that the zionist invasion and subsequent occupation was a war crime, all activities of their government are illegal. they're bandits. they would have the legitimacy of conquest, except the losers are very much alive and active in resistance.

and the process of conquest is ongoing. poor jews are pouring in from all over the world, notably russia, and the israeli government is spreading them around the occupied territories. israel dare not stop the conquest, they need the lebensraum.

so this 60 year old crime will continue, until the jews get tired of fighting, or hamas does. or until someone in palestine goes to the un for a 'south africa' solution, and the usa gives up it's middle eastern puppet state.

don't hold your breath- this is the 100 yrs war of our time.

Demos,

You are right; as the level gosh donw in th' boddle I'm desidn to vote fer jack err Jjohn or w'ever.

Pericles, my final comment was just an observation of history.

The Penan and Punan of Sarawak were nomadic (some still) but the timber industry killed that idea. Now they are opting for settled farming. The Bedoin I presume are suffering a similar fate? Overtaken by history.

and Yes, I was stirring a bit with the first part :)

PEPPY PEPPY.. don't do that. Throwing a bucket of pig slurry on me and running b4 I can throw one back:)
PRESSES the *SERIOUS* BUTTON.

Peace is acheivable as follows:

1/ Palestinian government root out and exile or kill the extremists.
2/ Israel stop building more settlements in West Bank.
3/ They all live happily ever after.

Why won't that work? ahah !
1/ Theological issues.
a) Symbolic value of Jerusalem.
b) Orthodox Jews and the coming rebuilding of the Temple.(and removal of Al Aqsa Mosque)
c) Hamas Charter.

2/ External Influences.
a) Iran/Syria
b) USA

Peppy..where was the 'hate' in my last post?

Ohhh.. I get it. 'Disagree with Peppy, or appear pro Israeli and you are full of 'hate'.. ok..got it. (you and Pericles can form a 'common interest' club)

Someone out there is planting trees and that is perhaps the most important thing of all...the Israelis and Bedouin can work on the ownership issue but everyone needs to work on the trees. Is John Howard to be held responsible for every conflict on the planet or can people for once acknowledge that someone else might be responsible? He was in a no-win situation on this one...do you insult people who want to acknowledge you? Or do some people see these tree planters as terrorists? Do they think all Israelis are terrorists? Should we have nothing to do with them?
The Israelis I know want peace - so do the Palestinians I know... and the interesting thing is that the people I know are helping one another and would be pleased that trees are being planted.
Noone wants to lose land but perhaps the "use it or lose it" bit might be part of the problem here too.