I was surprised and saddened to hear on SBS TV News tonight [Sat] that an Australian Jewish Group had called a newly created tree plantation on disputed Traditional Bedouin land in Israel the "John Howard Plantation" .
The Bedouins have now asked John Howard to come and see the problems this has caused these traditional living Israeli Arabs .

Why would Israelis living in Australia drag the Australian Prime Minister John Howard into their Human Rights messes that have caused increasing irritation and dismay in the Middle East and the rest of the world.
Should John Howard swallow the BAIT ?

kj, you answer your own question: now the israelis have another foreign leader with an emotional attachment to tne lovable israeli government. better yet, he will express his support for the occupation of palestine, and they have another brick in the wall around the suppurating sore of the zionist invasion of palestine.

Its a great opportunity for John Howard to demonstrate his grasp of history, and to relate the Islamic invasions, and declare how that crime against humanity (by the Romans and the Muslims) is now being wonderfully reversed by the resilient and determined children of Israel :)
He might also mention the incredible restraint of the Israelis who have not yet elected to re-claim their God given land from the Red sea to the River Euphrates.

AMEN.

In the meantime, the Bedoin are just one of 1000s of traditional tribes who's lifestyle is incompatable with modern life. The nomadic Punan and Penan of Sarawak have already discovered this and are settling in permanent villages. Tragic, but reality.

The real question for our Beloved One is "Is there a vote in it?"

is mise, you may be suffering from severe cynicism. regular applications of alcohol to your tongue will relieve the symptoms. if pain persists- larger doses at more frequent intervals.

kartiya jim and demos,

In a land dispute taking place thousands of miles from where you live, and without access to any of the relevant legal documents, court decisions, etc., on what basis can you decide who is right and who is wrong here?

It sounds like you've made up your mind without knowing any real facts. That's prejudice. And it sounds like you've done it on the basis of the ethnic identities involved. That's bigotry.

Boaz, I have to confess that I had badly underestimated your sense of humour, and your propensity for subtle mischief.

>>Its a great opportunity for John Howard to demonstrate his grasp of history<<

John Howard's grasp of history is very similar to that of my father. Tightly linked to a very personal view of "right and wrong", it rejects anything it finds disturbing, and looks for the path of least resistance at every possible opportunity. This is illustrated by his (Howard's) unthinking acceptance of what Bush and Blair told him about Iraq; "white bread" history, untrammeled by any need for analysis or comprehension.

>>how that crime against humanity (by the Romans and the Muslims) is now being wonderfully reversed by the resilient and determined children of Israel... the incredible restraint of the Israelis who have not yet elected to re-claim their God given land from the Red sea to the River Euphrates.<<

ROTFLMAO

But I did puzzle over the last sentence for a while to work out whether you were still being side-splittingly humorous, or whether you had suddenly turned serious. It deals with a serious issue, so I need to be reassured that your irony button was fully depressed.

>>the Bedoin are just one of 1000s of traditional tribes who's lifestyle is incompatable with modern life. The nomadic Punan and Penan of Sarawak have already discovered this and are settling in permanent villages. Tragic, but reality.<<

Please explain. I am genuinely puzzled.

"re-claim their God given land from the Red sea to the River Euphrates"

Boazy,

I've been to Israel and apart from the extremist Zionists most Israelis do NOT believe that Israel has a god given right to conquer Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia as you seem to think. And they'd tell you if God wanted them to then it would have been done a long time ago. If it's a god given right why is Israel trying to get out of Gaza and why did the war in Lebanon go so badly. Most Israelis and Palestinians are sick of the violence and would like to get rid of the extremists on both sides. I think statements like yours are immoral do not help the cause of the Israelis. I think most of the Jewish people who visit this site and want to see peace in the region would probably prefer if statements like yours which attempt to glorify violence and conquest were kept to yourself. For someone who claims to follow the Prince of Peace many of your posts seem to have a love of warfare and killing.

Don't bother reply to this post. I won't read your hate filled angry reply.

sganot, it's not this particular land deal that is the problem, although howard's participation got my attention.

once you grasp that the zionist invasion and subsequent occupation was a war crime, all activities of their government are illegal. they're bandits. they would have the legitimacy of conquest, except the losers are very much alive and active in resistance.

and the process of conquest is ongoing. poor jews are pouring in from all over the world, notably russia, and the israeli government is spreading them around the occupied territories. israel dare not stop the conquest, they need the lebensraum.

so this 60 year old crime will continue, until the jews get tired of fighting, or hamas does. or until someone in palestine goes to the un for a 'south africa' solution, and the usa gives up it's middle eastern puppet state.

don't hold your breath- this is the 100 yrs war of our time.

Demos,

You are right; as the level gosh donw in th' boddle I'm desidn to vote fer jack err Jjohn or w'ever.

Pericles, my final comment was just an observation of history.

The Penan and Punan of Sarawak were nomadic (some still) but the timber industry killed that idea. Now they are opting for settled farming. The Bedoin I presume are suffering a similar fate? Overtaken by history.

and Yes, I was stirring a bit with the first part :)

PEPPY PEPPY.. don't do that. Throwing a bucket of pig slurry on me and running b4 I can throw one back:)
PRESSES the *SERIOUS* BUTTON.

Peace is acheivable as follows:

1/ Palestinian government root out and exile or kill the extremists.
2/ Israel stop building more settlements in West Bank.
3/ They all live happily ever after.

Why won't that work? ahah !
1/ Theological issues.
a) Symbolic value of Jerusalem.
b) Orthodox Jews and the coming rebuilding of the Temple.(and removal of Al Aqsa Mosque)
c) Hamas Charter.

2/ External Influences.
a) Iran/Syria
b) USA

Peppy..where was the 'hate' in my last post?

Ohhh.. I get it. 'Disagree with Peppy, or appear pro Israeli and you are full of 'hate'.. ok..got it. (you and Pericles can form a 'common interest' club)

Someone out there is planting trees and that is perhaps the most important thing of all...the Israelis and Bedouin can work on the ownership issue but everyone needs to work on the trees. Is John Howard to be held responsible for every conflict on the planet or can people for once acknowledge that someone else might be responsible? He was in a no-win situation on this one...do you insult people who want to acknowledge you? Or do some people see these tree planters as terrorists? Do they think all Israelis are terrorists? Should we have nothing to do with them?
The Israelis I know want peace - so do the Palestinians I know... and the interesting thing is that the people I know are helping one another and would be pleased that trees are being planted.
Noone wants to lose land but perhaps the "use it or lose it" bit might be part of the problem here too.

As I write this email John Howard will be arriving at the crown of thorns gambling den (Crown Casino) in Melbourne to receive an "honour" from the Jewish Nation Fund (JNF) of having a forest named after him in occupied Palestine (Israel). About 10 years ago then Premier Jeff Kennett was offered a similar "honour" but I understand rejected it.

What concerns me is that Howard has agreed to receive this award less than 1 year since the IDF bombed thousands of Aussies visiting Lebanon in the Hezbollah/Israel war in mid 2006. The Aussies like most of the Lebanese victims were mostly 100km from the combat zone in the border.

Further during the war my local MP's Michael Danby ALP (Melbourne Ports) and Senator Mitch Fifield Lib (Victoria) plus Helen Shardey Lib (Caulfield) attended a pro Israel rally at Melbourne GPO. These MP's should not only be sacked but I think should be brought before the courts if guilty of some offence like treason or aiding the enemy. Who were they supporting Australians in Lebanon or a foreign power?

The ALP and Liberals pander to minority groups not because they necessary like their views (eg) Zionism, but because they want their money in the form of donations and the minority group think that they are loved if party officials attend their functions. Having been a Liberal member from 1994-2003 I heard lots of bias and bigotry leveled a Jews, Roman Catholics, Muslims and gays etc by members at closed party functions after a few drinks.

Political parties are designed to oppress any independent thought of its members who are then herded around like sheep. Never join a party.

For my part I criticize some groups openly. I dislike the fascist political movement called Zionism but I do not hate Jews. However the likes of Manny Waks attack anyone who opposes Zionism calling them anti semitic. A Semite is a Jew, Muslim or Christian who has lived in the Middle East for centuries. In short all Jews are not necessarily Semites and all Semites are not exclusively Jews either.

sganot,
I try to steer a middle road on International discussion but admit I get the hackles up when there appears, on the evidence placed in front of me, to be an indifference to the Human Rights of the less powerfull and defenceless, wherever they are in the world. This is not bigotry .

I do not appreciate Australia's PM becoming party to the Middle East's Human Rights problems that are occuring within Israel's borders .

The fact you offer a particular Jewish opinion is of interest to me and should be good for the discussion .

Incidently my father's Jewish mate became my Godfather during the Second World War ; this makes it almost impossible for me to be biased ,but it does give me considerable room for concern for events there.

It has helped me maintain my interest in the State of Israel and hopes for a peacefull and just settlement to it's massive problems, that to many people appear of no particular concern at all to the present Israeli Government .

Let's put this into perspective.

When the Ottoman lands was divided, the Arabs received 1,905,458 square kilometres of land while the Jewish National Home (Palestine) covered less than 17,702 square kilometres and was to be shared with the Arabs already there.

Anybody who has studied the Middle East will tell you that there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian people, distinct from other Arabs. Many believe the Palestinian Arabs are seemingly entitled to an ethnically based state, even though they are surrounded by fellow Arab states inhabited by the same people. Odd how it is considered perfectly acceptable for Arab, Asian and African countries to be ethno-centric, but not European or European-derived countries.

The Arab states could have absorbed the Arab population in Palestine, but they chose to exploit the misery of their fellow Arabs in order to fight a proxy war against Israel.

Frankly, why aren't the anti-Israel types on this forum protesting against Indonesia's treatment of the West Papuans? Are you aware that Indonesia is engaging in demographic warfare against the West Papuans as we speak? Ethnic cleansing by our nearest neighbour doesn't even get a mention by this lot, but they jump up and down with indignation every time SBS screens a story about the Israel-Palestine conflict.