<< Not "added to", Ludwig. The correct term is "included in". >>

You’re just playing with word Pericles.

YES, economic activity that is generated directly as a result of disasters, accidents, illnesses and immigration certainly does get included in GDP.

I’m so pleased you can see that.

But NO, it does certainly NOT have the same value as the sort of economic growth that genuinely indicates a healthy and improving economy.

Actually, in our Federal government’s wonky world of pseudoeconomics, it does. But it absolutely SHOULDN’T!

Anyway, we’ve been over all of this. No point in doing it again. We both gave it our best shot just recently. We aren’t going to find agreement here.

I do note however that you don’t talk much about the immigration factor, which is probably much bigger than all the disaster/accident/illness type of economic activity that get added to (or including in) GDP.

The amount of economic activity generated directly as a result of immigration is staggering – and yet practically every bit of it is just duplication of what we already have, without it leading to improvements for the pre-existing population.

I keep making this all-important point, and you keep brushing past it.

Immigration = very large part of GDP = very strong indication of economic wellbeing and prosperity.

And yet we are seeing practically no change in per-capita GDP as a result of this immigration-induced economic activity. And we are seeing all sorts of negative aspects steadily worsening as a result of immigration / population growth.

On the contrary. They are quite straightforward, unambiguous words, Ludwig.

>>You’re just playing with word Pericles... We aren’t going to find agreement here.<<

So long as you insist on repeating that farcical idea that bushfires, cyclones, earthquakes, disease etc. add to our GDP, I will continue to point out just how ridiculous a concept that is.

I have carefully explained, repeatedly, how bushfires, cyclones, earthquakes, disease etc. can threaten (i.e. reduce) our GDP performance. So when you come back, time and time again, with the mindless mantra that somehow there is "increased economic turnover as a result of fires, floods, cyclones, illnesses due to smoking or alcohol" (I quote verbatim), I can only once again draw attention to your economic illiteracy.

Unfortunately, you then translate this illiteracy into your standard tirade against immigration.

>>The amount of economic activity generated directly as a result of immigration is staggering – and yet practically every bit of it is just duplication of what we already have, without it leading to improvements for the pre-existing population. I keep making this all-important point, and you keep brushing past it.<<

This is the sort of dog-in-the-manger attitude that gives this country such a bad name, when compared to other rich countries. What you are effectively saying is that the "pre-existing population" should not in any way share their good fortune with anyone else, despite the fact that it does them no personal harm. Our population - wherever it is coming from - is performing well, economically, and when this is shared out (as shown in per capita GDP), we keep becoming better off.

Year after year.

The short-sightedness of your vision for fortress Australia will inevitably end in an increasing isolation from the rest of the world, at which point we will realize that we need them, far more than they need us.

And that will really hurt. Even in your privileged corner of far-North Queensland.

Tax'Em Tony is about to add another great big tax, to his long list of broken tax promises! This time its a 'Petrol Tax' with not one cent of it being made available for the development of renewable sources of energy or for the provision of public transport. This tax will impact once again on the battlers as they are forced into private cars because the conservatives fail to provide public transport.

It's now up to page 9, and not even ONE of the radical right whingers on this forum has been able to show that the Coalition has not DOUBLED the deficit.

Yep, Toneliar Abbott (Tax'Em Tony) has DOUBLED Australia's deficit in just 7 months.

<< Tax'Em Tony is about to add another great big tax, to his long list of broken tax promises! This time its a 'Petrol Tax' with not one cent of it being made available for the development of renewable sources of energy or for the provision of public transport. >>

Yes Paul, this looks very likely.

Revenue from this GBNT (great big new tax) is mooted to be spent on new roads.

Well! How about that!

And why do we constantly need lots and lots of new roads?

Couldn’t have anything to do with our massive immigration intake, could it?

New roads are just part of the duplication of basic infrastructure that is needed to support immigration. It is one of the things that all the established residents (taxpayers) are paying for, which is really not returning anything positive for them, only for the new residents.

So…. if we were to greatly reduce immigration, we would greatly reduce the need for new roads and thus the need for this new tax.

We should all be telling Abbott, in no uncertain terms, that he should be reducing immigration instead of thinking about introducing new taxes like this.

Australia is full of anti migrant bigots. Ludwig wants "them" out and "us" in.

These anti migrant bigots existed in the 1800s (whilst they were willfully murdering thousands of aboriginal people ... yep the white migrants were murdering aboriginal people who got in their way. Oh the irony). The anti migrant bigots were VERY virulent in the first half of the 1900s. In the 1950s/60s/70s and 80s these hate filled bigots detested the presence here of Italian, Greek, Arab, Chinese etc etc migrants... but NEVER "white English" migrants. And so it continues on to this very day; the anti migrant bigots just can't stand migrants being here. They see migration as ONLY a minus, "they take our jobs" "they rape our daughters" "we need to build extra roads for them" "they live forever in luxury on welfare" "they're not of 'white' culture like us".

Luckily, the anti migrant bigots are currently a small minority.